Stand in the Gap Today Radio hosts Sam Rohrer, Dave Kistler, and Gary Dull are joined by George Barna (Founder of Barna Research, President of Metaformation, Inc) to discuss current cultural trends and their impact on America and on the church.

Sam Rohrer:                  Will anyone recognize this Latin phrase, divide et impara? Maybe you haven’t, but Julius Caesar made it popular. Some 1200 years before Caesar’s birth, the Assyrian nation conquered and divided the nation of Babylon. Divide et impara. In English, the phrase means this: Divide and conquer. As one analyst said, “Divide and conquer is still key to warring strategies today, but not on battlefields. Political commentators,” this fellow goes on to says, “note that the division of right and left political systems is splitting American politics as effectively as Caesar’s war plans.”

Sam Rohrer:                  Well, you know, as numerous factions inside the United States, as well as nations like Russia, and China, Iran, and globalists like George Soros, or the Islamic mentality, who are all on the outside … As all of them seek to divide Americans, and they all are, the goal is divide and conquer, and then to subdue. The developing assault on America by the law defiant immigrant invasion coming up towards the Mexican border, to the ongoing threats that they pose, to now, what we’re seeing with these pipe bomb mailers and a whole lot more. To respond to all of that, President Trump, last night at a rally, called for national unity and he promised to bring lawbreakers and terrorists to justice.

Sam Rohrer:                  With that set up, I want to welcome you to the Stand in the Gap today program today. I’m Sam Rohrer. I’m going to be joined by Doctor Gary Dull. On this program, we bring the news of the day, as we will today, but here we don’t just curse the darkness and feed division. Rather, as God would have it, we seek healing and unity through the knowledge of God’s Word, the Bible, and encouraging the fear of God by all our people, and an understanding of redemption through Jesus Christ, which is really the only thing that really brings complete and complete unity.

Sam Rohrer:                  Now, today on the program, our theme is going to be this: Can there be unity without a biblical worldview? Our special guest, Doctor George Barna, will be joining us as we highlight the findings of his most recent research findings, which demonstrate an enormous continuing slide in the number of Americans who embrace a biblical worldview. I want you to call or contact your friends somehow, right now, and have them tune in to these astounding findings as we explore the cause for a divided nation, and the recipe for unity.

Sam Rohrer:                  With that, I want to welcome you, George to the program, and Gary. I want to set this up right now and go right to the heart. We have a lot to go over here. You’ve heard me as I’ve set up the program as the deepening division within this nation is evident and all around us. It is. Anybody’s who’s reading anything knows that that’s what’s happening. The president’s call for unity last night was singularly good, it was appropriate, but without knowing the basis for true unity, in my opinion, his words may just fall to the ground. Now, I know that unity was not the focus of your research, George, directly, that we’re going to discuss in a moment, but I do think it goes to the heart of our division and the recipe for unity.

Sam Rohrer:                  So, Gary, let me go to you here right first and ask you this question: From a biblical perspective, Gary, what is the fundamental ingredient for unity?

Gary Dull:                     Well, Sam, from the biblical perspective, I’ll go back to what you said there in your introduction, that it’s very, very important that we maintain a biblical worldview. And wherever you have individuals, whether it’s two people or a church, or even a nation that is striving for true unity, then there must be an inherence to what the Word of God teaches. You could even start right there in the Sermon on the Mount that the Lord Jesus Christ gave in Matthew chapters 5, 6, and 7. But true unity will come when we submit ourselves to the teaching of biblical truth. It’s that truth that will bring the unity that will be advantageous to a person, a church, a nation, whatever the case.

Sam Rohrer:                  Okay, you went to the Word of Truth there. George, let me go to you here right now. And again, officially, welcome, and thanks for being on the program today.

George Barna:               Oh, it’s great to be back with you guys. I’ve missed you. It’s good to be here.

Sam Rohrer:                  Well, we’ve missed you as well, and so we’re going to have a lot to go in here. Let me just go and pick up on that. I want to ask you a very short question here, then a little bit longer one. Gary said what the ingredient for unity was. He kind of went to the issue of truth and some other things. Let me ask you, what’s the fundamental ingredient for division?

George Barna:               Well, I think there are a number of things that we could point to, but a lot of it has to do with selfishness, where we place ourselves above everybody else and certainly above the nation, the culture of the community, and misunderstanding. Where there is the absence of what Gary was talking about, the absence of truth, where falsehood prevails and that facilitates the division between people and it facilitates elevating ourselves to the pinnacle so that everything becomes about us.

Sam Rohrer:                  Okay, now let me go here, then. You’ve been measuring cultural norms and opinions for a long time. Can you measure the degree of societal division and unity? And if so, let me go ahead and ask you this: During times when our nation was unified, what were the unifiers? And looking at our nation, when we were divided, what were the marks of our division? Can you tell us?

George Barna:               Yeah, and I suppose you want this in a couple of minutes?

Sam Rohrer:                  I sure do. I sure do. You can do it.

George Barna:               Yeah, thanks so much. The reality is that research is always part art, part science. Can you measure unity? Can you measure division? You can, but there’s no standard formula for how you do that in a culture, but I think you can look at it, and I think that over the course of history, you see some of those measures born out in reality.

George Barna:               If we were to look at unification, what is that unifies a society? One of the things that you’d find in common over time is, there is a common vision that the people buy into. It becomes the rallying point of that group of people. And of course, you can’t have that strong vision as a rallying point unless you have strong leadership that helps to identify what that is.

George Barna:               Secondly, what we’ve seen over the course of time is that unity comes about when people have a great sense of fear. That’s one of the things that brings them together. They’re worried about their continued existence, about their quality of life. They’re worried about many different things.

George Barna:               Another unifier, also, is that there’s agreement about critical perspectives on life. Things like truth, and purpose, and process. That really comes down to thought and behavior, when we come together and we say, well, you know what? We finally identified that this kind of thinking is antithetical to our health. This kind of behavior is antithetical to our wellbeing.

George Barna:               And of course dividers, the greatest one that we’ve got in America today, I would say, is a narcissistic mindset.

Sam Rohrer:                  Our theme for the day is, can there be unity without a biblical worldview? Now, one thing the study of history demonstrates is that, while a nation is unified around a common worldview, they can stand together. Now that can be an atheistic worldview, it can be an Islamic worldview, it can be a globalist worldview. In the case of the United States, it has been a Judeo-Christian, or biblical worldview. When a family is of a common worldview and they look at life together, they can stand together. When a church is of a common view of God, and operates accordingly, they will also stand united.

Sam Rohrer:                  But sever the common tenants of that worldview and introduce competing views, that unity will be weakened, ultimately destroyed, as well as that nation, the family, or the church. And hence, fulfill the reality of the phrase that I started this program with was, divide et impara, or divide and conquer. That will be realized as history so clearly, clearly demonstrates.

Sam Rohrer:                  In this segment, we’re going to find out from George Barna what he’s found in his latest research surrounding the changes in worldview thought in America, because it directly goes to where we are right now as I’m looking at headline news again. Headline news just coming right up, and it says, “Poll research says, most see a sharply divided nation.” I think we know that and we sense that.

Sam Rohrer:                  George, let me go right now and ask you to go into your survey and your research. Let me quote one phrase that you said as a part of your summary. You said this, “Everyone has a worldview. That worldview is hugely important, because you do what you believe, and your worldview is the central data bank of your significant beliefs.” That’s a really powerful statement. If you could, George, give us an overview of what you’ve discovered as it relates to worldview thoughts of American adults and the changes. Just put this together for us. Just give us an overview, if you can.

George Barna:               Yeah, just the big overview is that, over the last three years, we’ve seen a three percentage point decline in the proportion of Americans who have a biblical worldview. Dropping from 10% to currently 7%. There are some patterns that emerge in that process. What we find, for instance is, the younger the generation, the lower the proportion who have a biblical worldview. And some people have asked me, well, why do we have this decline? Why is that? There are a number of reasons.

George Barna:               There’s no single reason, but I would say one of them certainly is that older generations, who have a much higher likelihood of having a biblical worldview, are dying off, they’re not being replaced with younger people who have a biblical worldview.

George Barna:               Secondly, churches across the country, based on our research, are not focused on providing people with a biblical worldview, or teaching them how to think biblically.

George Barna:               Thirdly, as you look at the shift in our population, ethnically, we’re becoming less and less white, and what we know is that, among white adults in America, 9% have a biblical worldview. Among non-white adults, 4% have a biblical worldview. So, as that non-white proportion grows, so does the non-biblical worldview proportion.

George Barna:               We can look at parents. We know that a person’s worldview is primarily formed for the rest of their life by the age of 13, and yet we know that only 5% of America’s parents today have a biblical worldview. And because you can’t give what you don’t have, again, that [inaudible 00:11:49] poorly for the future, suggesting that we’re not raising up people who can think that way, who have the basic foundations that enable them to develop a biblical worldview.

George Barna:               And then add to that what’s going on in our culture, particularly with the media using multimedia effects to constantly challenge and erode biblical thinking, and the fact that we’ve trained people now, that your emotions are to be the driver of who you become. More than six out of seven born-again Christians make their moral and value and spiritual decisions based on emotion rather than logic and reason and fact. That, again, contributes to it.

Gary Dull:                     That’s an interesting thing to take into consideration, George, and I think that one of the concerns that I have is that many parents who do have a biblical worldview are not doing a very, very good job in transferring that down to their children and grandchildren, and I think that’s a concern that many of us in the church have.

Gary Dull:                     But in your research results, you’ve cited that only 4% of millennials have a biblical worldview, and really, that’s a scary figure. It really is. But the greater shock is that only 9% of boomers have a biblical worldview as well. Have the boomers with a biblical worldview always been that low? Has it always been that much in a minority?

George Barna:               Yeah, part of the challenge we have, Gary, is that, oddly enough, people’s worldview is rarely, rarely studied. I’m one of the few people in the entire country that has consistently studied this, and particularly from a brand or spiritual point of view, I would say since we started in the early 1990s to look at this, recognizing its importance, there’s never been any generation, since that time at least, the last 25, 30 years, where even close to a majority of a particular generation has had a biblical worldview. I can’t speak to what happened after that, but if you look at the history of the baby boomers, one of the interesting things about them is that, back in the 1960s and 1970s, they were, at that time, the ultimate countercultural generation. They challenged everything. But certainly one of the things that they took great pride and joy in challenging was organized religion, so for them to resist taking the Bible as truth and trying to convert it into a way of life was almost a badge of courage for a large proportion of them.

George Barna:               Now, that’s changed somewhat over time as we have seen historically, for decades and decades and decades, from your youth until your older ages, yeah, changes occur, but we always lose a larger and larger proportion of people grabbing onto biblical truth in our particular culture, because we are such a secular culture. So, I would say boomers have probably always been a minority in terms of having a biblical worldview.

Sam Rohrer:                  Now, that’s interesting, George, and I’m glad Gary asked that question, because when I read it, I thought, wow, that’s an astounding thing. But you are right by saying that the boomers, the category of which Gary and you and I are probably a part of, were really the generation that challenged a lot of the norms to begin with, so our parents would have held a larger percentage of biblical worldview, I would assume?

George Barna:               Yes. And the data bares that out.

Sam Rohrer:                  Okay.

George Barna:               That’s been true.

Sam Rohrer:                  Okay. Let me ask you this, then, because this was another piece of the research I found really remarkable. You said this, “Just 10% of adults who identify themselves as Christians, just 10% of adults who identify themselves as Christians, have a biblical worldview.” And you went on to say that less than 23%, less than one out of, well, four I guess, of people whose beliefs about salvation qualify them as born again have a biblical worldview. And if I look at that, George, am I interpreting it correctly, that I am reading that as basically that there is very little statistical difference between so-called Christians and those who are clearly not? What are the implications of that?

George Barna:               Well, actually as the numbers come out … You’ve got about 10% of people who consider themselves to be Christian who have a biblical worldview, and almost all of those people would be born again, or evangelical Christians, or SAGE Cons, various groups within the Christian community. Among those people who do not consider themselves to be Christian, it’s just a fraction of 1% who have a biblical worldview. So, there is very much a statistically significant difference, but the fact that you’re down at one out of every 10 individuals of the seven out of 10 in America who consider themselves to be Christian, that in and of itself is shocking, and it raises the question, well, what do you think it means to be a Christian? Are you supposed to think like Jesus or not? If you are, then you must have a biblical worldview. These are His guidelines for us.

George Barna:               So, yeah, we’ve got real issues here. One of those is that, what could the future Christian church in America possibly look like if its leaders and the people who consistently try to portray themselves as Christian don’t buy into the ways of Christ? We’re in a situation right now where it’s a minority of the senior pastors in churches, Christian churches across the country, who have a biblical worldview. And again, the idea you can’t give what you don’t have, if pastors don’t even know what a biblical worldview is, if pastors don’t even embrace biblical thinking as the foundation for their life and their teaching, then yeah, the church is in massive trouble. Part of the reason for that is because you do what you believe, so if we do not believe the things that the scriptures teach, then as we’re seeing played out, our values and our morals are going to be completely redefined in ways that are the opposite of, or at least antithetical to biblical ways of thinking and living.

George Barna:               So, what happens is, right now, we have to ask, well, where is the significant source of training and mentoring for those who want to have God’s truth at the center of who they are? I would say a biblical worldview in America is kind of going the way of an 8-track cassette. It’s been replaced by things that are more convenient and user-friendly, but not necessarily better.

Sam Rohrer:                  And as a result of that, George, and we’ll have to now cut away for the break here, but with that, then is removed the one strongest element for unifying our nation as we have in the past, and contributes right directly to the division that we’re seeing, correct?

George Barna:               Yes, absolutely.

Sam Rohrer:                  Yes indeed.

Sam Rohrer:                  If you’re just joining us now on Stand in the Gap today, we are glad that you are part of the program. We are in the midst of a very, very practical evaluation relative to worldview. And our theme, can there be unity without a biblical worldview? Last evening, the president called for unity. Headline news saying that we’re the most divided in this nation than we have ever been, and we’ve talked about it on this program, as we deal with headline news, we know that there’s a great effort by those who are in opposition to our nation, to the concept of the rule of law, our Constitution, to a biblical view of morality. We know that there’s strong elements, Marxist elements, Islamic elements, globalist elements that have been trying to tear up the foundation, and to divide and conquer, hence the president’s call for unity. But can we achieve unity without a biblical worldview?

Sam Rohrer:                  We’re talking about that now with our special guest Doctor George Barna, founder of Barna Research Group, president of Metaformation Incorporates, a research communication company devoted to helping people. I’m reading from what they say, “Optimize their life using public opinion research as a vehicle to understanding conditions, challenges, and opportunities.” Now, we’re trying to do today with the research he’s just completed relative to changing worldviews of American adults and applying it to this issue of division and the president’s call for unity.

Sam Rohrer:                  If you have just joined us, again, you can get up all this information, this program, on our website, Have you go there. You can also communicate to us, let us know what you think about our guests, about our themes, give us comments, and I’d also ask you to prayerfully consider coming alongside of us, not just in prayer, critically important that you do that, but you also consider coming along with us in a monthly financial partnership way. We need your help. We don’t have deep pockets behind us, and if you are finding this information and what we present to be valuable to you, walk along with us. Make it possible that we can continue to put forth that information. You can do that on our website,, or you can do it off of our free app by putting in the phrase, “Stand in the Gap”, and then just doing donating there.

Sam Rohrer:                  Well, when the research so consistently proves that our American culture and our significant values continues to run away from God, from absolute truth, from accountability to God, the concept of right and wrong, and other aspects that reflect a Judeo-Christian worldview, a biblical worldview, it raises the very grave concern of whether or not we can continue as a nation, where we need to be unified around a common worldview, and whether or not we can stand together as a people united against a common enemy, and united toward a common vision and goal. Very practical things.

Sam Rohrer:                  We want to talk about that right now with George. George, I started the program by saying that nations, to be unified, had to share a common worldview. That could be atheism, globalism, Islam, or a biblical worldview as it did relate at one point to the United States. Can you give us an overview, from your perspective, of times in our past, in our national history, where we faced major challenges, but came together. War for Independence was one. Civil War was another one. World War I, World War II where we mobilized against ideologies, worldviews, that were threatening, not only this nation, but the freedom of the entire world, and I asked you a very clear question: What brought us together then? And do we have what it takes now, in 2018, to come together in the same fashion?

George Barna:               Yeah, well I think all the examples of national events, you named the good ones, we could put in the Civil Rights era and coming to agreement on some key concepts there about what kind of people we wanted to be. The attack September 11, 2001, there was a period of time where, again, we came together, we were unified in some thinking there. But I think when you look at all of these periods of time, there was a common point of view that was communicated to us, not just by leaders out of Washington D.C., but by a consortium of leaders from different focal points of our culture. You had pastors in churches serving as thought leaders. You had the media serving as thought leaders. You had educators serving as thought leaders. You had certainly government officials as thought leaders. You had the heads of family serving as the thought leaders within those smaller units of community. And it was great, because there were rallying themes that you saw all of those thought leaders using at the same time for the same purpose. That gave us the ability to unify.

George Barna:               I think that we’ve got some challenges today that we’re not really addressing, and one of those is that, perhaps our greatest enemy is our narcism as a culture. We have this sense of unsatisfied personal desire, so we focus on that as the enemy. How can we do that in the midst of evil taking place? Well, because in a less than a majority of the American people right now, and I believe this is the first time in America’s history where we’ve ever had a minority of our adult population who do not believe in the biblical concepts of God, we’re about 48%, who do so right now. First time in my lifetime, I can tell you that. We’re in a place where only about one out of three Americans are convinced that there is such a thing as Satan and that that evil being can influence people’s lives. That means that, really, we have no kind of spiritual enemy, it’s up to us to make our own choices, and we’re in a place where three out of four Americans now believe that people are basically good. Once again, we’ve thrown out the biblical concept that we’re all sinners, that’s our natural inclination. We need to be saved by a holy, righteous, loving God.

George Barna:               That has really shifted our focus away from recognizing that we cannot do good things on our own, that we need God and His principles at the center. Saying, you know what? I really need to take care of number one first. I’ve got to take care of me, and if you get in my way, you’re the problem.

Gary Dull:                     George, you have just said a lot there, and of course you’ve used that phrase “thought leaders”. I’ve never actually heard that before, but that is really a good phrase that, I think, could be developed in so many ways. But it almost appears to me is what we are facing today is like what took place in the book of The Acts. In Acts chapter two when Peter preached that great sermon, those who heard him responded by saying, “What should we do?” And that’s because they had somewhat of a biblical understanding, or I should say, an understanding of the law. Over in Acts 17 though, when Paul spoke on Mars Hill, why there was a completely different reaction to his message, because he was speaking to the Greeks who had no biblical understanding.

Gary Dull:                     So, today, it looks like we are dealing with a lot of people who really, simply do not have a biblical understanding. And of course that’s just my thought, but getting back to this subject, when such a measly number of those who identify as Christians in this country demonstrate and understanding of what a biblical worldview’s all about, let alone maintain that biblical worldview, what is the wake-up message that you would have for the church today?

George Barna:               Well, I think Gary … And by the way, I loved that juxtaposition of Acts 2 versus Acts 17 and dealing with the different populations, because we’re then talking about what happens when you do or do not have the foundation that enables you to interpret the times and know what to do, which we read about in II Chronicles. We’ve got this whole issue of, today, Americans don’t even know what they don’t know, so we’re a group of people who, I would day, very deep down, we’re desperate, absolutely desperate for truth and meaning and purpose. We’ve become one of the most affluent and highly informed and educated societies in the history of the world, but people are walking around empty. People are walking around feeling like they’re not sure why they got out of bed in the morning, and they want to know the answer.

George Barna:               I would say it’s imperative that churches provide that kind of leadership that gives people a point of view about why they should bother to get out of bed and what they should do with the time and the resources that have been entrusted to them by God. The church should be providing biblical teaching, helping us to understand how to think about the things that we’re going to encounter in the world, whether they are political issues, financial realities, relationships, whatever it may be, and the church needs to provide the kind of community, or opportunities for it at least, that give us the opportunity to have accountability and encouragement, and to observe what it looks like to be a follower of Christ in a fallen world.

Sam Rohrer:                  George, I do have a short time left here. That is wonderful instruction overall. Let’s go to the parents who is listening. Or the grandparents. A lot of folks listening are grandparents. What can they do at this point in their life in order to respond to this information and make a difference?

George Barna:               You know, I am a grandparent now. For the last four years, my kids have started having kids and it’s an incredible opportunity. My wife and I talk about this regularly where we perceive our primary responsibility with our grandkids, not just to make sure that they’re safe and having fun, but to make sure that every time they’re here, we’re giving them information and experiences that move them toward having a biblical worldview. If they’re going to watch something on a television or a computer screen, I want it to be something that honors Christ. If we’re going to have a conversation, I want to lead them back to the idea that, you know what? It’s not because I bought this food, it’s because God has orchestrated things so that we are taken care of in terms of our [inaudible 00:29:48] needs, and continually bring them back to that. To me, I look at Galatians 6:15 talks about you reap what you sow, so I want to make sure that what I’m sowing into the lives of those kids is going to bear fruit. Why? Because John 15:8, Jesus talked about, you’re my disciples.

Sam Rohrer:                  Well, as we move now into our final segment today on Stand in the Gap today, our theme has been, can there be unity without a biblical worldview? George Barna’s research is indicating that the biblical worldview, put this way, the percentage of American adults who hold a biblical worldview continues to significantly slide. That makes major, major, major implications for the ability of our nation to continue to rise above the division that faces us and become unified once again. One thing we know that, when we look at scripture, that nations, civilizations, having once had a knowledge of God, and particularly in a nation like ours, where our laws and our entire system of government was based upon biblical principles, a biblical worldview, just like Israel of old in the Old Testament. When that nation, having once known those things, having once experienced the blessings of God, then walks away, for whatever reason, that nation ability to continue is not only jeopardized, it’s compromised extraordinarily, and one thing for sure we know from the history of Israel, God’s blessing is absolutely short-circuited.

Sam Rohrer:                  That brings us to the point of, when we deal with this information, we want to make it practical. Prayer has to come into this in an enormous way. George, I’d like to go to you now as we [inaudible 00:31:45] of sum this up in the solution segment, more or less we’re going to call it today. The power of prayer, for those who know how to pray, is very critical, yet I think a lot of times, we often don’t go to prayer until we are so scared that we have nothing else to do. That’s not exactly the best time to pray, but it is a time to pray. George, from your experience, are we as Americans, do we understand enough about prayer and know enough about God and His ability to answer prayer to go to Him? Talk to us a little bit about that aspect right now as we talk about these numbers. We’ve talked about the power of prayer and how we ought to approach it.

George Barna:               Yeah, obviously prayer is one of those critical resources that we have to consider in this whole process. If our job ultimately is to follow Christ, which is what He told us to do, and so we’re supposed to imitate Him, one of the things we want to do is look at how he used prayer. Earlier in the program, Gary referred to the Sermon on the Mount. In that particular passage, Matthew 5-7, the Lord gave us a model prayer. How do we think about our lives and about God? How do we communicate with Him about these things? The essence, I think, of that whole model is to recognize God’s will is going to be done, so our job here is to get on board with His plan and His process. We can foolishly resist it, but that’s not going to produce much value. That’s what we’re doing today in America. Instead, if we got on board, we embraced His ways and His plans, rather than opposing Him, things would change. The purpose of prayer, I would say, is not to change God’s mind so that He’ll do what we want him to do. It’s for us to get on board with His plan. Prayer is there to change us so that we embrace His agenda, we get on His page.

George Barna:               I think as we do that, again, that model that He gave us for how to pray is all about submitting our heart, and mind, and strength, and soul to Him, to plead to Him for understanding, and then to act upon that understanding in ways that are going to bring about His Kingdom, because ultimately, that’s what this is all about. His Kingdom is going to reign whether we like it or not, whether we acknowledge it or not, that’s the truth. So, we can part of that, or we can be part of the resistance to that. If we’re part of it, we’ll enjoy it. If we’re part of the resistance, we’ll pay the price.

Sam Rohrer:                  Yeah, George, that’s a great way to sum it up. Ladies and gentlemen, prayer, among other things, we can’t expect to pray if we pray amiss. James talks to us about that. If we pray with sin in our heart. David talks about that in the Old Testament. There are a number of things. But one thing that Christ did was that He said, at the end, “Nevertheless, Thy will be done.” We have to be in agreement with God. That is perhaps the best thing we can walk away from right now, and I ask you, are you in agreement with God, ladies and gentlemen? When you pray, are you going to say, “I want to be in alignment with what You say and obey Your Word, because You’ve said it”? Or are we asking God to come back and bless us in our own way? Great point, George.

Sam Rohrer:                  Gary, let me go to you as we conclude the program. Now, talk to us about prayer. Just kind of round this program out here, please, on this issue.

Gary Dull:                     Yeah, and I appreciate those comments, George, that you gave on prayer. I think of the occasion back in II Chronicles 20 when the Moabites and the Ammonites were coming down against Judah, I think it was, in the days of Jehoshaphat. Jehoshaphat went to God and he said, “Oh, our God, we have no might against this great company that comes against us, neither know we what to do, but our eyes are upon You.” That’s what we need today, ladies and gentlemen. We might not always know what to do in light of what we are facing today, but when we place our eyes upon God, which implies prayer, then we will see His direction and we will know what He wants.

Sam Rohrer:                  Thank you, Gary. George, I’d like you to close us in prayer if you don’t mind. And where can people go now to find your research now that you’re back with Metaformation here?

George Barna:               Yeah, the best place would be to go to That website will have the most current things that we’re doing.