Isaac Crockett:              Hello. I’m Isaac Crockett, and joining me today are our regular hosts. We have Sam Rohrer, president of the American Pastors Network, and Dr. Gary Dull, executive director of the Pennsylvania Pastors Network and senior pastor of the Faith Baptist Church in Altoona, Pennsylvania. Also, today we will be joined by our good friend and special guest Pastor Matt Recker, pastor of Heritage Baptist Church. Pastor Matt is joining us live from New York City, which is his hometown, and we’ll be talking a lot about New York today.

Isaac Crockett:              Well, on Stand in the Gap today, we do talk about worldview regularly because it is important for us to have a Biblical worldview, a context of history in current events. Today I want to look at a different worldview, at the progressive or liberal worldview, to see the focus on this a little bit. We’ve seen this hot topic lately of abortion that has been brought to us by a lot of states and governors and legislators who are progressive. So this word “progressive” being used a lot by mainstream news, by liberal politicians.

Isaac Crockett:              For many Americans, they say it’s a noble viewpoint, and of course it sounds like something that’s pushing progress. But what kind of results will we see from a progressive agenda? That’s a good question. I hope you’re asking that question, looking for good answers. Today, we’re going to be looking … And, in fact, even yesterday, if you were watching the Super Bowl … And I don’t watch a lot of football, so it’s unusual for me to make this connection here. I watched a little bit of last night’s football game. The last time I did that was a year ago at the Super Bowl. But even people were saying today that the commercials or the way they did the Super Bowl performances were affected by progressive people. I thought it was interesting, just some of what was going on.

Isaac Crockett:              But today I want to especially look at New York state. The reason for picking New York state is because on January 15th, just a few days before the horrible new abortion law that came from New York, New York governor Andrew Cuomo was bragging repeatedly in his State of the State address about having a Democratic-controlled assembly and now also having, for the first time in a while, a Democratic-controlled Senate. He used the word “progressive” a lot. Throughout his speech, he used that word, and it was also … He gave an impassioned plea for them to pass a bunch of laws in the first 100 days, claiming that the conservatives that had been in the Senate had held the state back and that they were liberated because they have a progressive assembly and now Senate.

Isaac Crockett:              Governor Cuomo claimed that New York has “the most progressive legislative body in the United States of America.” He also blamed President Trump, saying, “The federal government is assaulting New York.” I’d like to just go to a quick clip, clip number one, from his State of the State address right now.

Andrew Cuomo:            We’re the most progressive government in the United States of America. We balanced budgets. We have the most socially progressive accomplishments of any state in the nation, and it’s not even close. First big state to pass marriage equality. First state to pass $15, the highest minimum wage. The most aggressive building agenda in the state. A national champion for organized labor, which is under attack by this administration and has a friend in the state of New York. The nation-leading environmental agenda. The first free college tuition program. That’s New York. The best paid family leave program in the nation. And a leader on gun safety. That’s the state of New York, and that’s what you’ve done.

Isaac Crockett:              All right. So what will be the result in New York of this progressive movement? Well, there’s a lot of things we don’t have time to discuss, but we know one of those that’s made the news is a lot of pro-abortion stuff going on with progressive New York. Listen to what Andrew Cuomo said a little bit later in his speech from clip two from his State of the State address.

Andrew Cuomo:            I believe we should pass a Constitutional amendment. Not just a Roe v. Wade law, a Constitutional amendment. Let’s write the rights of Roe v. Wade into the state constitution so it can never be changed no matter what happens politically, and pass the Reproductive Health Act and the Contraceptive Care Act.

Isaac Crockett:              Okay. That is exactly what happened. Unfortunately, that is what happened right away. And so he claimed to be the most progressive state. He claims that Donald Trump is assaulting New York. So, Sam, I want to go to you because you’re a former politician and a preacher, and you’ve seen how the leftist or progressive agenda goes. Why do you think that the progressive movement in America seems to be so tied to the abortion movement?

Sam Rohrer:                  Well, I think for a couple of reasons. Number one, I think you can tie the progressive movement, the current, quote unquote, progressive movement, to all of the things that the governor said, everything from labor issues to social issues to family issues to the environment. All of the things. He laid them out in that first clip that you played, and he’s right.

Sam Rohrer:                  But I think this is the thing we have to understand. What’s happened is that what I’m going to term the leftists, those who have rejected absolute truth, God’s law, moral absolutes … We gotta put them in that category, all of those things that they’ve rejected. They are great at changing the definitions of terms, Isaac. Just the mere fact that they can choose to make “progressive,” which sounds positive, which sounds forward moving, which sounds all of the kind of things that we’d want to be, to turn it upside down to mean, really, regressive.

Sam Rohrer:                  Progressive, in the common sense, in the normal word today, Isaac, is regressive in every one of the things that he said. And I think that the abortion movement, because the progressive movement is so closely tied to the concepts and ideology of Karl Marx, because it is, and Sigmund Freud, that says live out your natural inclinations and do whatever you want because that’s the natural thing … Those are the ideologies that are built within the progressive movement, and it is a natural thing, therefore, that in fact you take the matter of life, the highest value that God created, life, and to turn it on its head and seek to take life and to put it in the form of legalized murder, which is exactly what the governor did.

Sam Rohrer:                  So, Isaac, it’s a rejection of truth, and the progressive movement is regressive. You can factor on anything. Anything that is moral absolute, anything that is in the political sense conservative, anything that looks like the Constitution, the progressive movement is the opposite of it. And this is one thing that they’ve seized on.

Isaac Crockett:              All right. Pastor Gary, just real quick here, do you think that he is right that President Trump is trying to assault New York state?

Gary Dull:                     Believed all along that the progressive movement today is anti-God in practically everything that they do. They’re wiping God out of the picture, whereas many of Donald Trump’s policies are those that respect God. So Donald Trump is not assaulting New York, in my opinion. Donald Trump is, in many things, trying to hold up Biblical policies, conservative policies, that New York is wiping God out of the picture and their policies are anti-God.

Gary Dull:                     So it’s not an assault on New York. It’s just recognizing that Donald Trump is of a different mindset in what he’s doing in his policies than what many people in New York, particularly in the New York government, have in their mind as well.

Isaac Crockett:              Okay. Well, a couple of years ago, I was at the March for Life rally, and I remember Vice President Mike Pence was the first vice president to be at one of those rallies. I was praising the Lord, along with thousands of other people, to have an administration that stands for life. And what an example.

Isaac Crockett:              Well, we have a little bit of time before our break. As we talk about this issue with the progressives, it’s just interesting what … Sam just made this point, is that they stand for the opposite of what progressive really, you would think, would stand for. And they stand for the opposite of what is Biblical many, many times, especially in the case of the right to life for little babies and, really, the protection of women who are expecting children, who are being counseled to things that really aren’t in their best interest. We’ve talked about this on the air.

Isaac Crockett:              Sam, could you maybe follow up a little bit with some of the differences, this dichotomy between what’s happened with Donald Trump … He’s appointed pro-life justices. His cabinet seems to be overwhelmingly pro-life. And then we have Governor Cuomo, who’s defending the other exact opposite things.

Sam Rohrer:                  [inaudible 00:08:57] just a couple comments here, as we are going to go to break here in just a second. Really, what’s happening is, what Donald Trump has tried to do in his policies, it’s not an assault on anything. You could actually look at it as more of a restoration, a return to what has always been. That makes a big difference and totally different than what the government was talking about as an assault. A restoration to what was is not an assault.

Isaac Crockett:              All right. Well, we have been talking about what to expect from the progressive agenda in 2019 and going forward. We know that one of the things that’s at the top of the priority on the progressive agenda … We heard Governor Andrew Cuomo spell it out very clearly in his State of the Union address in some of the clips we listened to last segment … is that on their agenda, abortion is high on that agenda.

Isaac Crockett:              In fact, I was just reading an article on the Christian Post recently, and according to the author of that article, he said that there are seven other states that have similar abortion laws as to what New York just passed. He listed Alaska, Colorado, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Vermont, and then also the District of Columbia as well. In 2008, then-candidate and senator Hillary Clinton, asked by a pro-life pastor at a town hall event about her stance on abortion … Listen to this clip from that question, what she said about abortion. We’ll go ahead and play the clip.

Hillary Clinton:              Yes. Yes. And that is what I have tried to both talk about and reach out about over the last many years, going back really at least 15 years, in talking about abortion being safe, legal, and rare. And by rare, I mean rare.

Isaac Crockett:              Okay. So that was her stance in 2008, that it should be very rare. What she was saying with that pastor who was pro-life was that she would like to work with the pro-life movement to come to a position where abortion was not even necessary for people, where they weren’t in a position where they needed to use abortion. Unfortunately, though, she and many in the Democratic Party have continued to push Planned Parenthood, which … Planned Parenthood has continued to increase abortions and decrease numbers of adoptions that they help, and they seem to be just an abortion pusher.

Isaac Crockett:              With that, we’ve talked about a lot of people from New York, Governor Cuomo, Senator Clinton. I want to welcome a good friend of ours from New York, from New York City, Pastor Matt Recker, born and raised a native New Yorker. Pastor Matt, thank you so much for being on this program with us today.

Matt Recker:                 Hey. I’m happy to be here with you. Thank you so much for having me, Isaac.

Isaac Crockett:              The last time you were on, I think we talked some about a book you had written about city ministry, and we even got into a story of you running after somebody who had mugged a woman and some exciting high jinks, I guess, right there in New York City. But, very seriously, when you were listening to this clip from then-New York senator Hillary Clinton speaking about how abortion should basically be a last resort that should be rare, and now you see that New York has a law that pushes abortion, that allows people who aren’t even doctors to possibly take part in it, that it seems to be saying a person is not even a person until after they’re born, do you believe that New York is really progressive? In other words, are they progressing or are they regressing and becoming more hurtful?

Matt Recker:                 Well, exactly what was said earlier by brother Gary that this is surely not progressive. And let me say that abortion is never safe. Senator Clinton there said that they wanted to keep abortion safe, legal, and rare. But that right there, the first word, the second word, is a lie because any kind of abortion is brutal. It’s barbaric. It’s man acting like a beast. It’s never safe, and therefore it cannot be legal. No abortion should be legal, because it’s the taking of innocent life, which is murder.

Matt Recker:                 So they’re saying they want to make murder safe. How can you make murder safe, and how can you make it legal? And we want to make murder rare? It’s such a regressive idea. Furthermore, I would just say Mrs. Clinton is lying because she’s trying to get more support from the so-called moderates and even from people who are perhaps conservative in their views. She’s lying to get their support to enact her agenda because liberals achieve their goal by incrementalism. They make small baby steps toward their goal, and that’s their progress. So that’s the progress.

Matt Recker:                 They say they’re progressives. They’re trying to progress away from God, away from the Constitution, and be aggressive. They’re really aggressivists against God.

Isaac Crockett:              They really are, pastor. It’s sad to see that that’s happening so much across our nation today. I think each of us on the program today have been involved with the pro-life movement for many, many years. One of the things that we have noticed among the pro-lifers is that we’ve been saying that any abortion at all or allowing any abortion at all will be a slippery slope to late-term abortions and even infanticide.

Isaac Crockett:              What was announced in New York last week and what is being talked about down in Virginia last week, as well, concerning their progressive attitude towards abortion is really making that a reality. So my question to you is this: do you think that this has been a change in the agenda of the liberals, or do you believe that what we are seeing coming to pass now is what they’ve been wanting all along?

Matt Recker:                 Yeah. I think we would all agree on this that this is clearly what they have wanted all along. This is what they have been working for incrementally, and they showed this is what they’ve been wanting all along in the New York State Senate on January 22nd with the thunderous applause. I mean, that was frightening how the Senate applauded with glee and joyful celebration when this so-called Reproductive Health Act was passed in the Senate.

Matt Recker:                 See, they’ve been trying for 12 years to get that passed, but because the republicans have controlled the Senate, they’ve been thwarted. So it shows this was what they’ve wanted all along, furthermore when they lit up the one World Trade Center in pink celebrating this. This is a joyous time for them, and they’re celebrating it because this is what they have wanted all along.

Isaac Crockett:              Matt, one of the things that bothered me was just what you commented about. It was the attitude, the glee that those that were a part, that voted for the change and so forth, that they appeared as if it was the most glorious, wonderful accomplishment that they had ever had. Now, you’re a New Yorker. You’re there. You’re in the city. You might not be able to speak for the rest of the state, but you did comment on part of my question I was going to ask.

Isaac Crockett:              You said it’s been on the docket. It’s been an attempt by the democrats in New York to try to get this passed for 12 years, you said. Do you think that this agenda, this gleeful decision by the governor to sign this law now to kill babies up until the very moment of delivery, that that is reflective of the people of the state of New York? Is it possible that the majority of the people in New York are supportive of this kind of thing?

Matt Recker:                 I really haven’t done polls on it, so I’m not certain. I think there are a lot of people who are supportive of it because these are the people who have been elected to these offices. But I also think that there are a lot of conservative people that do not believe in this wicked abortion rights agenda, but they still vote for these individuals because of a loyalty to their party.

Isaac Crockett:              That’s a very good point. Let’s think about the Democratic Party. Sam, you’re a former politician, so actually, we just have a few moments. So I’ll see if you can take this one. Do you think that if … And it’s way ahead right now, but if in 2020 a democrat does win the presidency, do you think that we’ll see more things like this being pushed, and will that push our society into more of an acceptance of things like infanticide?

Sam Rohrer:                  Well, Isaac, I think that as we’ve talked about before, unfortunately, if a person runs on the democratic platform … Let’s put it there, the democratic platform that has thrown God out, that embraces the kinds of things that we’re talking about across the range of the regressive strategy, then, Isaac, it is only logical to assume that more of these kinds of things will happen.

Sam Rohrer:                  The only way that these kind of changes will occur will be that if there are any who are called moderates truly that remain in the Democratic Party get to the point and perhaps become so angered by this aggressive action to kill the most innocent and these abortion bills that they’ve passed that they say, “Wait a minute. Even I can’t go any further in this regard,” and back up.

Sam Rohrer:                  But I think that the party has made its way. It has thrown out God, and it has set the stage, Isaac. It can only go in the direction that it is going, and that is a frightful thing to consider.

Isaac Crockett:              How about this real, real fast, Sam? Any other things we should be looking for from this progressive agenda that should scare Christians?

Sam Rohrer:                  Well, I think absolutely. There’s nothing-

Isaac Crockett:              Or concern us.

Sam Rohrer:                  Well, there’s nothing about the progressive … I’m going to call it the regressive strategy that will not … because their actions show this. They go vehemently against anyone who opposes their ideology. Very logically, their aggressive movement will lead to the identification, the marginalization, and ultimately the persecution of anyone who takes an opposing view. That’s the way they talk. That’s the way they act. And those are the actions that an ideology that rejects God in a platform and then proves it by passing laws that kill the most innocent … These are the kind of things that will happen. It’s the antithesis of freedom. Let’s put it that way, and everything we’ve come to know in America.

Isaac Crockett:              Just as we go to our transition here, we don’t need to fear, because we trust in the Lord. But we should be concerned. These are worldview issues, theology issues, really, you could say. Worldview issues.

Isaac Crockett:              Well, as we look at this reaction from the far left or, as they call themselves, progressives … Sam has been calling them now regressives. We’ve seen how they have declared what appears to be a war on babies in the year 2019. Even recently, a celebrity actor, Ashton Kutcher, put on social media a video of a man with down syndrome who is a Special Olympian. He was standing before Congress testifying, and people have lashed out against Ashton Kutcher for doing that as if he was somehow pushing pro-life and that was a bad thing. It’s just become so polarized.

Isaac Crockett:              So, Pastor Matt, you’re in New York City. You were born and raised there. You and I have talked before about the New York abortion law and how, in many ways, what’s going on right now in the state of New York reminds us of some of the horrible things that happened when we found out about the murders that were committed by abortion doctor Kermit Gosnell.

Isaac Crockett:              Now, many are saying that some of these new laws that are being talked about, or the New York one that has been passed, are actually worse because they would allow people who are not doctors to perform abortions, which is not only going to end up in the death of the baby but can end up in horrible scarring emotionally and physically and spiritually for the young ladies involved, and can even end up in their death, as well, as we saw with Kermit Gosnell. Do you think that we are likely to see more of those kinds of atrocities where babies and mothers will die or be injured severely, like what happened with Dr. Gosnell?

Matt Recker:                 Well, let me ask you. Would you want me taking out your liver if you needed a surgery?

Isaac Crockett:              No way.

Matt Recker:                 This is absolutely ludicrous to think or to put into law that non-doctors can perform abortions. I mean, Hillary Clinton had said she wanted to keep abortion rare and safe. This is going to make abortion completely un-rare and just totally aggressively occurring all over, and it’s going to make it very unsafe. It will be like legalizing Kermit Gosnell-type behavior where, because it takes a very qualified physician … And listeners should go and look at what it takes to do a third-trimester abortion. It could take up to three to four days.

Matt Recker:                 It is a very difficult procedure, and it is a very dangerous procedure for the woman as they literally have to take a full-grown baby out of her womb piece by piece. It is a terrible procedure, and to think that this could be done by non-doctors is absolutely abhorrent. You’re talking about regressive. This is aggressively regressive to the extreme.

Isaac Crockett:              I like that. Aggressively regressive to the extreme. I think that you’re absolutely right in that, Pastor Matt. As a matter of fact, as I see it, if this continues, if the policies that New York wants concerning abortion and what Virginia wants concerning abortion continues, what we’re going to see is that people will legally be doing things that Kermit Gosnell is in jail for doing.

Isaac Crockett:              Lawlessness is becoming a reality. Lawlessness is becoming a fact in the United States of America, and it appears to be the Democratic Party that is pushing that, which is why I’ve often said that you cannot be a Bible-believing Christian and committed to the democratic platform.

Isaac Crockett:              But my question to you, Pastor Matt, is do you think that all of these laws that we are seeing coming up now out of the Democratic Party is going to backfire on them, or do you think it’s going to strengthen them as it relates to what’s going on nationwide?

Matt Recker:                 Well, I’m not a political pundit, and I’m not a prophet regarding the political direction of our nation. We are living in the last days, and evil times will grow worse. But I certainly hope it backfires. I know it will backfire against God’s will. I know it backfires against God’s purposes and plans. I know God hates the shedding of innocent blood, and I do pray that Christians will rise up and fight against these radical ideas.

Isaac Crockett:              Amen.

Matt Recker:                 I also believe if Christians will really just vote their true faith values and not vote blind party politics that it could backfire. What we have to realize too, I think, as Christians is that for these progressive, these so-called progressives, politics is their religion. That is their religion that they are promoting, and abortion is their sacrament, and climate change is their Armageddon. And the Constitution is an outdated document that prevents their aggressive regressive views from being enacted.

Matt Recker:                 So they’re trying to progress away from the Constitution. We have to wake up to, really, the deceitfulness and the wicked direction of this so-called movement that calls themselves socialist and progressive.

Isaac Crockett:              Matt, you just used a phrase there, I thought, that was really exceptional. And that is you were saying that this so-called progressivism, aggressive regressivism, as we’re talking and you said, I think appropriately, is really the religion. That fits right into the whole discussion here of worldview. You also said that the abortion was the sacrament. I think that’s very interesting, too, because this is not the first time in the history of civilization throughout the world that the throwing away and the sacrificing of children is the first time it’s happened.

Isaac Crockett:              It occurred in the past in Baal worship and other kinds of worship way back in the past. You talk about the Armageddon being the environmental theme, which I think is interesting because haven’t they been claiming that, yeah, we only have 6 years left or 12 years left or that kind of a thing? I think that’s a very practical way of looking at it. But expand a little bit more upon it in this perspective, if you could, because when you said religion and I said worldview, all of these things stem out of a worldview.

Isaac Crockett:              Matt, if a person throws off God, moral truth, respect for life, respect for each other, all of the things that have historically been a part of this nation, then what is there that can put any kind of limitation or put any kind of brakes on this downward, regressive slide that we are seeing right now? Talk about that a little bit if you can.

Matt Recker:                 Well, I think the only thing that would stop this direction is a real revival and a waking up of God’s people. I preached yesterday in our church of four traits of a gospel-hardened culture, and I’m not certain that we’re completely there yet. I was preaching about Jesus and Isaiah being … and how Jesus in quoting this passage from Isaiah 6 and Isaiah being thrust into a hardened culture and he would speak and the people would be blind to what he said, and Jesus, as well, was in a culture that was completely blind to who he was, so much that they crucified him, that they put him on a cross.

Matt Recker:                 I do believe, in some ways, our culture, as we have moved away from God and moved away from a faith in the word of God and a believing that the Bible is the word of God and that God is our creator, that all these other things have just swept in because of it. We’re in a dangerous place in that way.

Isaac Crockett:              Pastor Matt Reckner from New York City, thank you. That’s so true. We’re in a dangerous place, and we can look throughout history. The further we get away from God’s word and God’s plan for morality, for culture, for society, the harder and harder things will be, especially on the innocent. The book of Psalms talks so much about protecting the innocent. Throughout the Bible, we see true religion, undefiled religion, as protecting innocent widows and orphans.

Isaac Crockett:              We have something going on in our society right now that our society is blind. If we have said something that maybe offends you because of something in your past in connection with abortion, or maybe you’re seeking or searching, turn to the Bible. Turn to the word of God.

Isaac Crockett:              Well, we’ve come to our last segment for Standing in the Gap today. If you’ve missed part of it or would like to listen to it over again, you’re welcome to go to, or you could also go to, and you can find the archives of this and many other programs. You can listen again or share it with somebody else.

Isaac Crockett:              But we’ve been talking today about the so-called progressive agenda, really a religion to them. And we’ve been considering in particular what that means for the babies in the wombs of mothers in America. We’ve talked about this quite a bit today. Right now, as we close and we think about the millions of babies that have had their lives taken away through legalized abortion in our country since 1973, we realize that as pastors and preachers, when we’re talking about this, when we’re preaching about this, when we’re counseling people, we are likely going to find people in our churches, in our congregations, in our neighborhoods, in our own families, who are personally affected by this abortion issue.

Isaac Crockett:              Maybe you today are somebody who has had somebody in your family that has had an abortion or are considering. Maybe you’re considering an abortion. Maybe you’ve had an abortion. Maybe even you were pressured into it against your will. No matter what has happened or you are considering right now, I want to remind all of our listeners of God’s love, of God’s forgiveness, of God’s help, that he offers healing, forgiveness, and hope for all of us no matter what. We’ve all sinned and come short of God’s glory.

Isaac Crockett:              So, Pastor Matt, you are there in New York City where, for a long time, New York City has been known as a higher-than-normal amount of abortions per person. I just read an article. It’s actually been out for a few years, from That article claimed that there are many women in the church who … This is part of the title of the article, women who “go silently from church to abortion clinic.” In the article, it says that about 4 out of 10 women getting abortions are regular churchgoers.

Isaac Crockett:              Here’s a quote from the article. It says, “Many women with unplanned pregnancies go silently from the church pew to the abortion clinic, convinced the church would gossip rather than help, a new study commissioned by Care Net shows.” Matt, your church is located in New York City, a city with, again, a high abortion rate. How do you address this topic when you are preaching, knowing that there are probably people in your church who’ve in some way or another, whether encouraging somebody or just … Maybe they even tried to discourage them from it, but they have a family member or maybe even they themselves have been involved with an abortion in some way.

Matt Recker:                 Thank you for the question, and I want to answer that question. Before I do, can I just quickly say something?

Isaac Crockett:              Sure.

Matt Recker:                 We’ve been talking about progressives and everything through this hour. I just again want to … and even encourage anyone who’s gone through an abortion, and maybe they think, “Because I’ve had an abortion, I would be a hypocrite if I didn’t think that we should have more abortion legislation,” or whatever. But don’t be afraid to stand up and say, “My abortion was a sinful and wrong …” and then to repent of that and go to Jesus with your repentance and to seek forgiveness from him.

Matt Recker:                 I think we have to just be aware that in our culture, something very dangerous is happening and that these progressives … We have to define progressives for what they are. They’re using this term because the word “liberal” became so … People woke up to what that term meant. But progressives see our founders as naïve, immoral slave owners and the Constitution as something that must be changed. And I really believe foundational to the hatred that so many have against our president is he is appointing strict Constitutional Supreme Court justices to the bench, and they’re panicked about that.

Matt Recker:                 So we must not be afraid to vote for conservative politicians who have a originalist view of the Constitution. Getting back to your question, though, very quickly, I’m just going to give these three words: one, forgiveness; two, relationship; and three, don’t be afraid. That’s not three words, but don’t be afraid. In other words, go to God and get forgiveness. I love this verse, John 6:37. Jesus said, “Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.”

Matt Recker:                 So if you’ve had an abortion, go to Jesus. Don’t be afraid. And then have a relationship with someone in your church. I read that same article that you referenced, Isaac, and it also talked about people, though, who were more connected to a church and had relationships with people in the church. Get a relationship with someone in the church. Share your burden with them. If you’re pregnant and you’re even considering abortion, go to them. Pray with them. And then go to the leadership. Don’t be afraid.

Matt Recker:                 But if you know the Lord is saying, “Come to me,” develop relationships in your church, and then don’t be afraid to do the right thing. Have your baby. Trust God.

Isaac Crockett:              Well, thank you so much, Pastor Matt Recker. That’s so well said, and appreciate the points that you’re making. Just to draw out one more, we’re living in a culture that seems so polarized and so hateful of one another. If you are truly a Bible-believing Christian, we should not be hating. We should not be bringing violence towards those who disagree with us, even someone like the politicians we’ve mentioned today.

Isaac Crockett:              We want to be praying for them. In fact, right before the program, we were talking about an exciting thing that’s going on with another politician from New York where people we know are getting to pray with that individual and have an opportunity to do it regularly. We’re praying that it will affect that person spiritually as well. So we want to be praying for these people.

Isaac Crockett:              Pastor Gary, you have pastored and you’ve been involved with the pro-life movement, and you’ve done a lot of counseling. What would you say right now if you were talking to somebody who, like Pastor Matt was saying, had maybe an unplanned pregnancy and they were maybe even considering an abortion, maybe a church member, maybe somebody who’s not even affiliated with the church? What would you say to them?

Gary Dull:                     Well, certainly, I always encourage people to choose life because that’s what the Bible teaches. Taking that life out of the mother’s womb is nothing else but murder. If there is somebody listening to us right now who is considering that, I just want to say to you please don’t take that life. Don’t kill it. Don’t murder it. That’s really what it is.

Gary Dull:                     If, for some reason, you don’t think that you can afford that child or you don’t want that child, whatever the case, there are all sorts of adoption agencies out there. There are Christian adoption agencies that would help you to be able to, after you deliver that child, find somebody to take that child who wants it. But choose life. That’s the message of the scripture. Choose life.

Gary Dull:                     And then I would always encourage people to think before they get involved in any type of sexual activity. Remember that sexual activity can result in life in that mother’s womb. So think about that before you have any kind of a sexual relationship. Don’t wait until there’s life in the womb and then decide that you want to abort it. That’s the backward way of dealing with it.

Gary Dull:                     But choose life always. If you’re thinking about abortion, don’t do it. I plead, don’t do it. There are people that would love to adopt that baby. Follow through with that process and see how God provides.