God, Trump, and the 2020 Election

This transcript is taken from the Stand in the Gap Today program aired on Nov. 12, 2019.

Sam Rohrer:                      Well, believe it or not, just 52 Tuesdays from today, 52 Tuesdays from today, you know what date that is? It’s going to be November 3, 2020. Now, at that point, Americans, all of us, are going to have the opportunity to once again vote for members of Congress, our state legislatures, a third of the US Senate, and of course the President of the United States. And citizens on both sides of the issues, and I’m going to put it this way, on both sides of God, on both sides of truth, on both sides of the Constitution, everybody seems to sense that this next election is critical. And those of us who fear God, we seek a return to morality, an obedience to God, and a voluntary embracing of God’s 10 commands which, by the way, happen to be the basis of our justice system as it should be, undergirds our law, and, of course, we also embrace the two greatest commands, our founders recognized it and God stated, love the Lord your God and love your neighbor.

                                             Now, all those things are what we seek, but others are frankly seeking to overturn our Constitution. They want to eradicate any vestige of God and what he’s done in our nation. They really are pursuers of evil, they love global governance, and they espouse ideologies that really represent a totalitarian view where there’s a rule by the rich or the powerful. So, the stakes are high when it comes to the rule of law and freedom as we’ve known it and the continuance of religious liberty. The need is beyond great for an awakening of God’s people and all who hold to any fear of God to understand what’s at stake, embrace the duty that we have as citizens and the role that we play and will play now and through 2020 culminating in a national vote on November 3, 2020.

                                             So, on Stand in the Gap Today we’re going to officially kick off a national initiative of prayer. The American Pastors Network we talk about that. Stand in the Gap Media we’re launching today here calling on all people and all ministries around the nation who believe that blessed it is the nation whose God is the Lord, appealing to them to commit to praying every day, yes, but specifically every Tuesday in a very specific way, for pastors to lead their congregations in weekly prayer for the nation, for our families to lead in prayer within their homes, for our leaders and our president and those around him to look to God and to pray that freedom might remain.

                                             With that introduction, I want to welcome you to the program. I’m Sam Rohrer and I’m going to be joined today by cohost Dr. Gary Dull, executive director of the Pennsylvania Pastors Network and pastor of Faith Baptist Church of Altoona, Pennsylvania, and evangelist Dave Kistler, president of North Carolina Pastors Network and president of Hope Ministries International. Our theme today is this, 52 Tuesdays. That’s what we’re calling this initiative, 52 Tuesdays and 52 reasons and more to pray. Our special guest today to help launch this initiative is a well-known author and upcoming book that he’s going to be releasing in January of 2020 is this, God, Trump, and the 2020 Election, and he says as a part of this why he must win and what’s at stake for Christians if he loses. This individual is Stephen Strang. He’s also authored the books of Trump Aftershock and God and Donald Trump. He’s the CEO of Charisma Media and the founder of Charisma Magazine. With that, I want to welcome you to the program, Stephen Strang. Thank you for being with us today.

Stephen Strang:                Well, thank you for the opportunity and I think what you’re doing is very, very important.

Sam Rohrer:                      Well, we believe so as well. And you talk about the importance of prayer, the importance of this election and a lot of our listeners they say “Is this the same Stephen Strang perhaps that we’ve seen on Fox News or CNN or MSNBC?” And I say, “Yes. Yeah, he’s the same one.” You know, it didn’t hurt as well, Stephen, that President Trump made you and your last book, God and Donald Trump, well known at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. And then, so, you’ve been in the space of writing, speaking, furthering articles of all types and commentaries about this whole area and that’s why I wanted to have you on. And you’ve written this book and I want to give our people just a sense of what it is and why you’ve done it.

                                             But here it is. Let’s go right here to this point. Again, you’ve entitled the book, God, Trump, and the 2020 Election, scheduled to be released on January 14th, I believe, of 2020. To start out with, Stephen, how critical and how unique do you view the circumstances here coming up in the 2020 election? How important is this election that’s coming up?

Stephen Strang:                Everything is at stake. You know, we have political discourse, different points of view for many, many years, but now it’s gone way beyond that. If the other side wins, especially for Christians, we’re going to lose so many rights. They’re going to undo the good that Donald Trump has done and that’s why I wrote this book. Now, you may be interested to know, coincidentally, that the book is going to press today. Literally today.

                                             People may know me, you mentioned it, publisher of Charisma Magazine. I’ve been doing that over 40 decades. We publish many, many books, nearly 3,000 books believe it or not, including Jonathan Cahn’s Harbinger and the Oracle. So, I’m really a publisher, but after the 2016 election I knew how much was at stake when Donald Trump defeated Hillary Clinton. I was actually for Ted Cruz originally. I was kind of turned off by Donald Trump’s persona as a New York billionaire, celebrity, and so forth, but I began to understand that, well, first of all, I would have voted for anyone but Hillary Clinton. They talk about Never Trumpers, but I was an ABC voter. I was Anybody But Clinton.

                                             I began to see that Christian leaders were behind Donald Trump, and it kind of surprised me. I began to learn that he had changed. He seemed to welcome Christian support. There were things on YouTube, pictures of Christian leaders and pastors gathering around him and laying hands on him and praying. I’ve been privileged to interview three Presidents. I was always in a setting with other Christian leaders and they never even prayed for the president. A prayer wasn’t even offered. And, you know, you don’t touch important people, yet Donald Trump seemed to like this and it happened not once but a number of times. He really values the Christian leaders giving him advice. He has become a champion of pro-life and religious freedom and lot of things, things that none of us would have expected. There were also prophecies, and I realize in Christian circles it’s kind of controversial and I’m not trying to be controversial, but there were people…

Sam Rohrer:                      And, Stephen, I’m going to have to have you to hold that cause we got to break away here in just a couple of seconds. Ladies and gentlemen, when we come back we’ll complete that thought with Stephen Strang. He is the author of a new book upcoming, God, Trump and the, 2020 Election: Why He Must Win and What’s at Stake for Christians If He Loses.

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                                             Well, welcome back to Stand in the Gap. I’m Sam Rohrer accompanied today by Dave Kistler and Gary Dull. Our special guest, Stephen Strang, he’s the author of an upcoming book, God, Trump, and the 2020 Election. We’re making this as a part of our initiative today, national initiative on behalf of the American Pastors Network and Stand in the Gap radio and TV this theme 52 Tuesdays prayer initiative. We’re calling on you person, wherever you are, mom and dad, grandma and grandpa, pastor in the pulpit, wherever you are, think in terms of this 52 Tuesdays from today is the election, November 3rd, 2020, a key, key election and boy do we need prayer. We’re calling say pray every day, but let’s pray specifically on Tuesdays this thinking that this will mark a calendar event called an election and it’s going to drive so much of what we are seeing and thinking.

                                             You know, Founding Father Samuel Adams made this statement. He said this. Listen. “Let each citizen remember at the moment that he is offering his vote, that he is not making a present or a compliment to please an individual or at least that he ought not so to do, but that he is executing one of the most solemn trust in human society for which he is,” now get this, “accountable to God and to his country.”

                                             The proper understanding of duty to God and to country is a critical balance if freedom is to endure and understanding our duty to those who have gone before, the generation who will come after yet unborn, to our nation raised up of God, and most fundamentally ultimately to God himself who alone is the giver and the sustainer of life and a blessing which we so desire for our nation. So, it’s appropriate for Christians to be vitally concerned and involved in thinking about elections and candidates for office, but wholly within the constructs of God’s plan for those in office understanding at the end of the day that he will raise up those he will and he will put down those he will.

                                             Stephen Strang, you’ve written the book, you talked about it just briefly, actually going to print you said today, God, Trump, and the 2020 Election, and you made a statement there at the end of it on the front cover of the preview copy that I have before me where you said why he, Trump, must win and what’s at stake for Christians if he loses. Can you take just a couple of minutes and share just briefly maybe what’s in the book a little bit, but what is at stake for Christians and freedom in this nation if, as we know it, right now, and what we see before us, if this President does not win?

Stephen Strang:                Well, everything’s at stake and the book is divided into three parts. The first is what’s at stake and the second is understanding Donald Trump and the third is understanding the spiritual dimension, including how important it is to pray. I believe that Donald Trump won in 2016 because Christians prayed. I mean, things were bad under Obama. They would have been a lot worse under Hillary Clinton. And there were actually people who are prophetically attuned who felt that God was saying that Donald Trump would win even though it looked to everyone right up until election night that there was no way he could win, yet God raised him up. A lot of people said he raised him up like he’s raised up people in the past in the Bible like King Cyrus, Persia, who helped people get, the children of Israel get back to Israel.

                                             But here’s what’s at stake, the Supreme Court. If the other side gets in, they’re going to put in another kind of people in the Supreme Court than Neil Gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh. So, of course, that affects pro-life. What about religious freedom? You know, there are people that are actually wanting to make it hate speech to say what the Bible says about traditional marriage and homosexuality. What about immigration, which is one of the biggest problems we have in our country? And we could go on and on.

                                             The second chapter is actually called Why Trump Might Lose? It comes down to a couple things. The other side is very, very dishonest, we’re seeing this every single day in the news, and also because Christians tend to be apathetic and stay home particularly if they don’t think their vote is that important. Every vote counts. I document that Donald Trump won by only 80,000 votes spread across three of the key states that nobody thought he would win; Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. That is razor thin, even though in the Electoral College of course he won quite handily, and that could happen again.

                                             Now, the spiritual dimension is I believe that this is more than just Republican versus Democrat. This is actually good versus evil, right versus wrong, and there are principalities and powers, the Bible tells us that, that are trying to take this country in the wrong direction. It is not new. It’s been going on for a long, long time and in fact in some ways it’s been going on throughout history, but it seems to have accelerated in our lifetime.

                                             I’ve been covering the Christian community for four decades and I know it pretty well and I also know that Christians tend to be nice, sort of passive people, part of that is being Christ-like, but the other side is mean and there is nothing that they won’t do to defeat Donald Trump. Right now, they think they can’t defeat him, so they’re trying to impeach him. But…

Dave Kistler:                      Stephen, let me jump in and ask you this.

Stephen Strang:                … I personally think that…

Dave Kistler:                      I’m sorry to interrupt, but let me ask you this cause you’re going down a track that I want to ask you something about. You said in the first segment that Donald Trump was not your first choice. He was not mine either. I was a Ted Cruz guy as well. My father-in-law was a supporter of Trump from the time he came down the escalator, and of course it hurt to admit that he was right. I’ve become a tremendous supporter of Donald Trump for a lot of reasons. What would you say, you’ve made a good case already, but what would you say specifically to pastors who have trouble with his demeanor, the way he pushes back hard against those who attack him? His speech can at times be, as Michelle Bachmann said on this program, it can be dishonoring and they’ll bring those things up and say I just couldn’t vote or encourage my people to vote for somebody like that. What do you say to them to try to help them understand they really have no choice?

Stephen Strang:                No, they have no choice. We’re not trying to elect a perfect Christian. We’re trying to elect someone that will protect our rights so you and I can be Christians. I mean, since when did we have these standards for anyone else? And yes, he’s a little rude and crude, but I’ve heard some preachers that were rude and crude. What are we going to do be nicey, nicey and have our country taken away from us? Whatever Donald Trump has done, the other side is a hundred times worse. You know, people pick at him. I’m glad he pushes back. Finally somebody standing up. These people hate you and me, but they just don’t attack us cause they don’t think we’re important. The people who hate Donald Trump hate the rest of us and, you know, really, what does he say? He uses the word hell and he shouldn’t. I mean, that’s not the worst sin. That’s not going to damn you to hell. I don’t think so. Yes, he should be growing in his faith. Dr. James Dobson said if anything he was a baby Christian.

                                             He has honored Christian leaders. He had a state dinner and when, it’d never been done before, and they asked him how he wanted to remember and he said, and I document this in God, Trump and the 2020 Election, “I want to be remembered as the president who prays the most.” So, we don’t know what goes on behind closed doors. People who know him well say he’s a very nice guy. I interviewed him once. I expected him to be kind of brash. He was very respectful and even a little bit humble. I have a podcast called the Strang Report. It’s on the Charisma Podcast Network. The interview is there from August 11, 2016. People could listen to my actual interview with him and it’s also in my first book God and Donald Trump, the first book that I wrote.

                                             I wrote this book not to sell a bunch of books, even though I’m a publisher. I wrote it because it was my way to try to motivate Christians to let them connect the dots, help them to understand the fallacy of all these little… It doesn’t sound good. We don’t vote someone because he uses some foul language. I mean, what is at stake in our country? The support of Israel. How important is that to God? This president has supported Israel more than any president back to Harry Truman, and that is very, very important in God’s plan for mankind. God has raised up America to be a beacon to the world. There are people on the left that are trying to make America like any other country and if America quits being a great country the gospel is not going to go around the world. A lot of these bad actors in China and other places are going to be much, much stronger on the world stage and the world will not be the same.

                                             God has a plan, and I think that he sent this unlikely person at the, just like he sent Winston Churchill to England when it looked like they were going to cave in and just surrender, sign some kind of peace treaty with the Nazis. That would have been the end of Western civilization as we knew it. Winston Churchill was also rude and crude. He smoked cigars and drank brandy. The Christians of his day didn’t like him at all, a lot of non-Christians didn’t like him either, yet he felt a sense of destiny. I document this in the book as well. He felt a sense of destiny from the time he was a teenager, that he lived on earth to save Western civilization and I believe he did.

                                             I believe that Donald Trump has been raised up by God. I am not ashamed to say that and I make the argument as strongly I can in God, Trump, and the 2020 Election. It’s coming out 10 months before the election because I think that we need to consider the spiritual aspects and not just the political aspects. The secular people, how can they consider the spiritual aspects? They’re spiritually blind, but the church is like asleep and needs to wake up. Thank God for ministries like you that are sounding the alarm, for calling people to prayer. The conclusion of my book was a call to prayer.

Sam Rohrer:                      And, Stephen, I’m going to have to cut it. I tell you we could go the entire program. Stephen Strang, thank you for being with us. Where will people, very quickly, five seconds, where can people find this book?

Stephen Strang:                Right now, it’s only available on Amazon.com. It comes out in the middle of January. It’ll be in bookstores everywhere at that time.

Sam Rohrer:                      All right, well thank you very much Stephen for being with us.

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                                             Well, welcome back to Stand in the Gap Today. I’m Sam Rohrer and again accompanied today by Dave Kistler and Gary Dull. This day, right now, as we’re doing this program, is 52 Tuesdays away from November the 3rd, 2020 which just happens to be the general election of next year. We’re doing this program today on the theme of this, the 52 Tuesdays, 52 reasons and more to pray, and we’re encouraging all of you who are listening. We’ve done a press release now. We’re going to be doing more information encouraging pulpits across America, encouraging individuals and families to be consciously aware of the need for prayer for this nation and to pray every day, but specifically pray every Tuesday thinking as we count down from this day 52 down to the election of next year.

                                             Now, at the American Pastors Network and here at Stand in the Gap Today as well as our entire national Stand in the Gap radio and TV emphasis, we’re trying to understand and we’re trying to demonstrate and, as I’m saying, encourage pulpits and all of us across America to understand and teach a full biblical view of life, that’s what we tried to do in the program, and that a biblical worldview properly implemented affects the individual, impacts the family, impacts commerce, impacts civil government, and certainly as a result impacting the church.

                                             These things together determine the degree of national blessing or the degree of national judgment, the degree to which we are secure as a nation or great as a nation all wraps up on how well we as a nation understand a biblical worldview and put it into effect. We believe here and we talk about it a lot, if you’re listening to the program regularly you know that, we believe that God’s plan alone for society when implemented can assure freedom and liberty and blessing and prosperity. Our founders believed that too and our early pastors they preached it. We also understand that as a nation unfortunately we’ve walked away from God, we’ve rejected his plan, and we’ve rejected his ways and we stand right now in the way of final judgment.

                                             In this segment now, we’re going to deal with just a couple of questions, key questions always asked by Christians as it relates to political involvement, elections, voting, and provide just a few thoughts before we go to prayer in this last segment as we kick off today 52 Tuesdays prayer initiative, countdown to the election.

                                             Dave, let me go to you from here and you could preach an entire sermon, and Gary I had a question for him. From a biblical perspective, why should elections be considered a Christian duty for all Christians and for pastors in the pulpit of America as well?

Dave Kistler:                      Well, Sam, let me say this. God is the author of civil government just like he’s the author of the home and he’s also the author of the church and that which God initiates, that which is his idea he expects his people to be intimately involved in. So, for us not to be involved in the affairs of civil government here in the United States, that involves elections, we get the privilege in this constitutional republic to elect our leaders, so to not be involved in that I believe would be an offense against a righteous God. Now, we understand God puts certain kings or leaders in place, he puts others down, but the bottom line is this we play a role in all of that.

                                             Sam, I’m reminded in Jonah chapter number three God had told Jonah you go proclaim this message 40 days and Nineveh not might be destroyed, Nineveh shall be destroyed. I mean, it was pretty much a done deal. Jonah goes and preaches and starting with the people all the way up to the king they repented, they put on sackcloth and ashes, they proclaimed a fast, they turned to God, and God changed his mind.

                                             Now, again, I don’t understand how all of this works. It’s been a debate that has gone on for thousands of years, but the bottom line is this, God is in sovereign control, but we play a role in all of this. God’s going to do the right thing on his side. We have to do the right thing on our side, which means this, we vote. We vote as biblically as we possibly can. We vote for candidates, as Stephen said in the first two segments, like President Trump that is supporting biblical, constitutional concepts and policies. We vote for people like that in hopes that our republic can be sustained.

Sam Rohrer:                      Ladies and gentlemen, understand when we’re talking about that here in America we have a most unusual perspective. Throughout the scripture and throughout most countries around the world people have never had a opportunity to vote or select their leaders. They’re imposed upon them. So, we have a most unusual opportunity and that’s why I put it in the context of it’s a duty as well.

                                             Gary, elections by their very nature raise the prominence of potential political leaders and we know that in this postmodern culture in which we live that government to many people have become God. I’m afraid to many Christians they look perhaps more to government than to God himself. What do you say to people who may get caught up in this, and I think we all can get caught up if we’re not careful, who may be more inclined to put their hope more in man than in God? Put it this way, what can you tell our listeners to help them keep their priority of God, family, nation, and God’s greater plan in proper perspective as we go into this very, very cluttered and controversial season ahead of us?

Gary Dull:                           Well, Sam, I think it’s interesting to note along with what Dave said that God is the one who instituted government. Government is one of three of God’s institutions. The first being the home and the family, the second being government, and the third being the church. But what we find today particularly in our postmodern culture we are beyond Christian belief in many segments of our society today, and so where we are is that even though God is the one who’s established government, government in many places is pressing God down. They’re trying to do away with God. I think, we’ve said this before and let me say it again, that you look at the platform of the Democratic party you find a platform that does not even mention God and I would go so far as to say that because of the fact that they are against life, they are against Israel, they are anti-God.

                                             Christians need to understand that and that’s why elections are so important. You know, it’s interesting to note that the book of Colossians chapter one and verse 18 tells us that in all things Christ is to have the preeminence, and sometimes I think that as Christians we’d like to compartmentalize God. We can say God is good in the church and God is good in our devotions and God is good here but then we go to work or we go into the government and we simply don’t bring God into the picture. But from the biblical perspective, and according to God’s plan, he should be preeminent in everything that we do. Now, as that relates to every one of our listeners, and particularly every one of our listeners who know the Lord Jesus Christ as savior, in fact, let me just talk to you listeners right now. Let me just direct this to you.

                                             You are listening to this program under the providence of almighty God. God is the one who causes, allows, and directs all things to happen. So, you are listening to this program today under the providential allowance or direction of almighty God. Beyond that, you are living right now in this time, in this age for such a time as this and as a Christian, as salt and light, you’ve got the responsibility to portray that salt and light in everything that you do. I’m including Dave and Sam and myself in this because we are Christians as well.

                                             Therefore, we need to understand biblical truth. We need to understand simply what does the Bible say about each issue and then when it comes time to vote, when it comes to the election, we must vote biblically, not politically, but we must vote biblically to see that in everything that we do and everything that we stand for Christ is in that preeminent position. As a believer, you are here right now to bring forth the preeminence of Christ in all things and as we go towards this election 52 weeks from right now I would encourage you to pray that in all things in your life Christ would be preeminent in all that you do and all that you vote and all that you portray as it relates to our national need.

Sam Rohrer:                      Gary, excellent. And ladies and gentlemen, you may be saying, “Well, that’s very interesting. I agree with most of what you’re saying.” But there may be some are saying, “Well, you know what? I hope you guys don’t all become political and go down that direction.” Can I just lay out that we believe that there’s a balance what we’re talking about, that if we are in fact a believer as God has called us to be that’s 24 hours a day, that should be, and in every aspect of culture that’s what God intends it to be. We communicate to encourage the pulpits to speak about the application of truth for all of us in every area of our life, that we act out, live out biblical principles in our family, in the workplace, in the setting of the church absolutely, but outside the walls of the church.

                                             That is God’s plan for us as salt and light. That’s what we’re trying to lay out and we know that next year the election drive the discussion, don’t they? Everything in the news is going to be already directed around what people are talking about, policies or issues, and what candidates say. The calendar is going to drive the discussion and every person listening to me right now, all of us, are going to be forced to end up making a decision about how we’re going to vote for whoever and we’re either going to vote for somebody, we’re going to vote against somebody, or we’re going to choose not to vote, which is also a decision.

                                             We say is not it logical that if we think biblically we need to be making a decision for Christ. Gary just talked about preeminence of Christ. We must choose to make God great and Christ position our life great first before we choose how we’re going to vote or for whom we’re going to vote. The order is critical. That’s what we’re going to talk about, that’s what we’re going to emphasize throughout this next year, and that’s what we’re going to pray about, Gary and Dave and I, in this next segment. Stay with us.

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                                             Well, welcome back to Stand in the Gap. We are going to now enter our final segment. Hopefully, you’ve been with us throughout this program. If not, we were talking today and our theme has been this, 52 Tuesdays, 52 reasons and more to pray, because we’re launching our 52 Tuesdays prayer initiative. 52 Tuesdays from today will be November 3rd, the general election of 2020. It’s appropriate that we think in terms of praying. It’s certainly appropriate that we are influenced by a calendar event called an election to help us in our focusing on prayer and not that our answers and the solutions to life’s problems come from the political realm. They don’t. I can tell you that. I think we all know that. But who are in office is a reflection and it does make a difference who is there. So, praying for elections, praying for national elections, for local elections, that’s something that God would have us to do.

                                             It’s just so in this country we have an ability to actually be a part of free elections. That’s not been the history of the world. That’s not what happened even in Old Testament examples. People had dictators thrown upon them, foisted upon them. We have had something totally different. This holy experiment in freedom, we take it for granted and assume it’s what the whole world has had. That’s not what the whole world has had. It’s not the default position of civil authority. So, if we’re commanded to pray for those in civil authority, for what reason? Well, so that we can live a quiet and peaceable life. Doesn’t it make sense that we pray for the elections and who God may raise up and that he gives us wisdom to understand who may be the best candidate, the one that most closely aligns with a fear of God and demonstrates courage to be able to execute and carry it out.

                                             We know that when the righteous are in authority the people rejoice. The Bible tells us that. We also know when the evil bear rule, the globalist, the Islamist, the Marxist, all of those who reject God, when they are in power the people mourn. Well, that’s where we are and it’s important that we understand and that God’s promises to bless in the Old Testament, I mean most of them are national blessings. If my people are called by my name and God promises, that’s a national blessing. God told Israel you obey me, I’m going to bless you nationally. I’m going to give you prosperity nationally. I’ll make you secure from your enemies nationally. So, it’s appropriate that we think in terms of this.

                                             I’d like to right now, go right into with no more talking, Gary and Dave and myself will close. Gary, Nehemiah 9, Ezra 9, Daniel 9, as an example, these leaders led a national prayer for repentance for a nation. Pray instructively picking up on what you may pick from that passage. Dave, if you could follow, pray for those specifically in office, pray for those right now who are in office who know the Lord in particular that they would have great courage. However God would led you as well, pray instructively, follow Gary, and then I will come behind and then close the program. Ladies and gentlemen, as you’re listening right now join in with us and may you with us make this a matter of focus from here on for the next 52 Tuesdays. In particular, make it a matter of joining in prayer together with increasingly thousands of others across the country as we go before our great God in prayer seeking his face and for his involvement here in our nation and our lives. Gary.

Gary Dull:                           Sam, it’s interesting to note in those passages of scripture you’d made reference to, Nehemiah 9, Ezra 9, and Daniel 9, that in each one of those prayers those who are praying recognize where the nation had gone, they confessed that particular sin, and then they saw God work. And I kind of think that that’s a pretty good pattern for us to follow here today in 2019 as we go into 2020.