This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program originally aired on 3/25/20. To listen to the program, please click HERE.
Sam Rohrer: Well, hello and welcome to this Wednesday edition, midweek now, here on Stand in the Gap Today. I’m Sam Rohrer. I’ll be joined by the full team again, Dave Kistler and Gary Dull. Today’s an historic day in the midst of this coronavirus epidemic. Yesterday, as an example, Wall Street jumped 2100 points for the single largest jump in history, reacting to, again, the largest jump in history of the pumping action, I’m calling it, announced by the Federal Reserve as they will begin bailing out large and small businesses alike. Then last night, late, U.S. Senate Majority Leader McConnell announced that he had a bipartisan deal, which is now passed evidently, to pass an historic emergency economic stimulus bill of approximately $2 trillion, which will result in $1,200 being sent probably digitally, we won’t get into that now, to every U.S. adult, and $500 for every child, for individuals making under $75,000 and couples making under $150,000, and all of this to help assuage the negative impacts because of the mandated stay-at-home virus policies.
Sam Rohrer: Then the president is seeking another $4 trillion in printed money on top of this for more bank liquidity. The historic skyrocketing of U.S. debt poses, and we’ve talked about a lot, enormous dangerous consequences for our nation. Yet, I would suggest that before budget deficits and the problems develop where these things happen, before deep political infighting’s erupt, and before evidences of moral crumblings in our culture are seen, I want to submit that there is first a deficit in our relationship with God, a deficit of spiritual understanding, a deficit of how to view life and living from God’s perspective.
Sam Rohrer: It’s this direction. I want to go today on the program. I want to go to the root of our national cultural problems, the root of our pandering politicians and our salivating citizens who only want and wish for more and bigger government or bigger handouts, and also going to go to the root of complacent churches and passive pulpits. Our theme today is this, the true U.S. deficit, and that is Americans, with a biblical worldview. A true U.S. deficit are, basically, you can say this, not enough Americans with a biblical worldview. It’s Americans with a biblical worldview. That’s the deficit.
Sam Rohrer: Our special guest, and a dear friend, and favorite guest of our Stand in the Gap Today listening audience, is George Barna. He’s with us now. He’s a cultural research scientist. As you know, he’s a author, speaker, founder of the original Barna Research Group, now the Barna Group, and who is currently serving as the Director of Research at the Cultural Research Center at Arizona Christian University. He’s there also in the capacity of a professor. This special guest today is going to share publicly, first, in this type of a fashion, really alarming information in research known as the American Worldview Inventory. We’re going to discuss it right now with George Barna. George, thank you for being with us. It’s so great to have you back.
George Barna: Sam, Gary and Dave, I’ve missed you guys. It’s great to be back with you. Thank you so much.
Sam Rohrer: Well, we thank you. Anyway, let’s get right in. We have so much to go over, George. You’ve just completed the first wave of what you’ve indicated that you hope to be an annual and extensive national survey to estimate and measure, how many Americans possess a biblical worldview? You talk about biblical worldview. We do, as well. It goes right to the root, I believe, and you believe, I know, of addressing our problems in offering the solutions to our needs. Before we get into the specifics in the next segment, you are now there as the Director of Research at the Cultural Research Center, Arizona Christian University. For you, George, what are your short-term and long-term goals for this powerful first wave, frankly, and this research, and what you intend to bring on later?
George Barna: Well, we’re really excited about this, Sam. I mean in terms of short-term goals, what we want to do is to be able to paint the picture of what’s actually going on at any given point in time. That’s what a survey does. It gives you a portrait of where things stand at a moment in time. We hope to be able to annually update that portrait, eventually have enough of those portraits that when you fan them together, it’s kind of like a movie, and you can see what’s happening in the culture. By painting that picture, secondly, we want to create a consciousness in the general public about this idea of their worldview because one of the things that we find is that people still don’t think about this. They have a worldview by default. Consequently, thirdly, what we want to do short-term is to begin to raise concern about the nature of the worldview that most people in America have and then, fourthly, through that, be able to motivate leaders and teachers to do something about it.
George Barna: Our long-term goals are things like changing the trajectory of what’s going on with worldview in America when we look at the pattern of how many people have a worldview, what types of people, what’s impacting the worldview, what we need to change what’s happening with all that. Secondly, in order to change it, we want to be able to use the research to stimulate the development of resources that will help people to begin, not only to focus on the idea of worldview and the reality of their own worldview, but to be able to have resources that will help them to shape that worldview in a way, ultimately, the honors God and in a way that is best for them. When a person has a biblical worldview, it’s one of God’s gifts to us because what we’ve done is we’ve taken His principles and figured out how to apply them to our life. It’s for our benefit and to His glory.
George Barna: Then, thirdly, we want to hopefully get people thinking about this enough that they’ll be regularly measuring, where do they stand in terms of their worldview? Maybe churches, and schools, and families as entities can begin to develop ways of measuring that. Finally, our longest term, our biggest goal of all is that we want to be significant in helping to reestablish America as a nation of people where a majority, most people, if not everyone, has a biblical worldview. When we hear this expression, “Make America great again,” to me, having people in America living in accordance with a biblical worldview is really the only thing. It’s the bottom line of making America great again.
Sam Rohrer: Really, George, I guess, you could summarize what you’re saying in saying that if we want to make America great again, ladies and gentlemen, which we do, we have to first make God great again in our thinking.
Sam Rohrer: Well, welcome back to Stand in the Gap Today. I’m Sam Rohrer, accompanied today by the full team, Gary Dull, Dave Kistler, and very special guest, Dr. George Barna. As we are releasing and actually discussing what is perhaps the most comprehensive research and survey done on biblical worldview of Americans, as we move through this now in this segment and the next, it’s really astounding. The implications are enormous in the value it can have for all of us who want to be more effective in our communication of truth and standing in the gap for truth. Then this program today will certainly help. Stay with us as we walk through that.
Sam Rohrer: The collection of research, and data, and information is a lengthy and ongoing process. Some people are involved in research their whole lives and some in data, collection, some analysis of information. We do a lot of analysis of information on this program. Getting that research and data and doing it on an ongoing basis so it’s accurate is very critical if you’re going to solve a problem, have a project brought to successful completion, or frankly, for a family or a nation to succeed. It’s got to be based on facts, and data, and information.
Sam Rohrer: I was thinking of this. Before Israel went into the promised land, they sent out 12 spies. For what purpose? To research the land, to research the people, the potential in the enemy’s strengths. Before Solomon built the temple, David researched. He prepared and gave the building plans and all the materials to Solomon. Christ himself raised the question of, what man is it that builds a tower and doesn’t consider first the cost?
Sam Rohrer: All the way through, it’s very biblical to get research. For Christians, for God-fearing people, for nations who wish to be blessed of God, we know that without God’s blessing, there will be no success, no prosperity, and no freedom. If we want these things, we’re going to have to do our research first, frankly, as our founders did. They went right to the Bible. They sought the model that we call today, a biblical worldview of life. It’s this core assumption that George Barna, in his just completed expansive survey, attempted to determine and estimate: How many adults in America actually have a biblical worldview?
Sam Rohrer: George, we’re anxious to see what you’re going to say on that. You’ve entitled your research findings as this: Dangerously few Americans possess a biblical worldview, which I think gives us an insight into what you’re going to find and share. You’ve been researching cultural attitudes of Americans, generally, in those who call themselves Christians, specifically, George, for decades. Just first of all, were you surprised by the findings of this research? If so, how and why?
George Barna: Well, Sam, the reality is you’re making me sound as old as dirt, frankly, when you put it that way. The reality is when you do research for close to 40 years on a national basis, there’s not an awful lot that emerges that surprises you. I would say, no, I wasn’t surprised, but I am disappointed by the results. I started measuring the nation’s worldview back in the mid 1990s. It was evident then that the church at large was not taking this issue seriously. The problem is, I think, over time, what we’ve seen is there really hasn’t been a change in that mentality. We’ve continued to see a decline in terms of the capacity of people to think biblically. They don’t have the foundations to do that. I think maybe the most important segment for us to be thinking about is how we’re building a worldview in children.
George Barna: What we’ve seen over those last 25 years that I’ve been looking at this is that, frankly, we have even less of a worldview-centric process of developing the minds and hearts of children in our churches, in our homes, in our schools, certainly in our society. You read the Bible. You find that primarily, it’s the role of family to be inculcating a worldview in the minds and hearts of their children. We know that today, only 5%, 1 out of every 20 parents, of children between the ages of 5 and 13 themselves, as adults, have a biblical worldview. You can’t give what you don’t have. Right away, we’ve got danger flags flapping furiously in the breeze there. We know that churches tend to be working primarily with and through adults who don’t have a biblical worldview.
George Barna: If I were a leader of a local church, I would be thinking, “Wow, this is really a serious issue.” If they don’t have the foundation built properly as Christ talked about, you’re building on sand. You’ve got issues for the future. Our process clearly isn’t working. We’ve got to change that process. Some of that, of course, goes back to the fact that this is not something we measure. We measure how many people show up to church, how much money the church is raising, how many programs and staff, how much square footage. We measure those kinds of things, but we’re not measuring the things that Jesus said really mattered the most, which is, “Are you being faithful to my teaching and are you producing much fruit? Because then you’re my disciples.” That’s what He told his disciples, would be the measures. Those are the things that we need to be looking at.
ary Dull: George, it’s a delight to have you back with us. Looking at some of this research that you’ve done, and I have it before me here, I kind of suspect that a new book may be coming out soon. I kind of hope that it does. If it were not for the COVID-19, I would be over in India right now teaching the biblical worldview because they really don’t have too much of an emphasis on it over there. Whether it’s India or here in the United States of America, certainly Christians, individual Christians, need to be challenged on this through the local church ministry.
Gary Dull: Now, George, in the past, you’ve shared that only about 4% of the millennials hold to a biblical worldview. That small percentage, I believe, really threatens the viability of our representative republic among various things. We can see that at work even as we look at the politics going on today. What did your research actually find out about Americans, generally, and how did your research indicate differences, if any, between generational age groups?
George Barna: Yes, good questions, Gary. What we find is that currently, we would estimate that only about 6%, 1 out of every 16, 1 out of every 17 adults, in America has a biblical worldview. You can break that 6% down many different ways. If we look at it in terms of age groups, what we found was that people who are 50 or older, about 9% of them, have a biblical worldview. That’s cut almost in half when you go down to the 30 to 49 age group, people in their 30s and 40s. Then it’s cut in half again when you look at people from their late teen years, age 18 through the end of their 20s, 18 to 29, only 2%. If you look at that generationally, what that’s telling us is that the elders and the boomer’s around 9%. We’re looking at Gen X or the Baby Busters in the 4% to 5% range. You look at the millennials. They’re in roughly the 3% range.
George Barna: One of the things that that suggests to us is we have a problem in that from generation to generation. Although the Bible says it’s our job to be passing on God’s truth to those who are our children and our grandchildren, clearly we’re not doing a very good job of that because from generation to generation, the numbers are shrinking. We’re getting to a point where they can’t shrink an awful lot more. Certainly, parents are going to need help in this process. We’re looking at schools. We’re looking at extended family. We’re looking at churches. We’ve all got to be engaged in this together.
George Barna: We looked at a lot of other different segments in the research, as well. We did find there was a correlation with a person’s political ideology. People who are conservative are almost twice as likely as the rest of the country to have a biblical worldview, about 16% of conservatives. You look at people with a moderate political point of view. 3% have a biblical worldview. Those who have a liberal point of view on political issues, social issues, economic issues, governance issues… Only 1% of people who are political liberals have a biblical world view.
George Barna: The other thing I’ll point out… I know we got to go to a break here. When we looked at this by gender, what we found is that the proportion of men and women with a biblical worldview is roughly equal. Now, that may not sound like a big deal, but to me, that is a big deal because 25 years ago when we started this, women were much more likely than men to have a biblical worldview. I’d like to say, well, it’s because men have gotten better in that. It’s actually not that. It’s the opposite case. It’s that the proportion of women has slowly but continually dropped over the last 25 years to the point where men and women are essentially even at this point. We need to put a stop to that, as well.
Sam Rohrer: George, again, boy, tremendous information and, again, shocking and alarming. I do think it’s interesting that as you shared, you weren’t surprised but disappointed because, ladies and gentlemen, when you look at trends, which is what research does, when you look at trends, trends will continue. That’s what they tell you. If you see a decline happening, a decline will continue to happen unless something shakes it and changes it. If something is going up, it’s likely going to go up until something shakes it. Certainly when it comes to a biblical worldview, the decline has been going in that direction. That’s what we called a deficit biblical worldview.
Sam Rohrer: All right, we’re going to back in now here to this research information. Deuteronomy, chapter 30 is a great chapter. The Lord gave the people of Israel there a choice. He said, “If you want civil freedom, if you want prosperity, if you want to be able to bear children and raise them as you desire, if you want good weather, enough rain, but not too much, no plague, no pestilence… ” Sounds like America, right? Make America great. Isn’t that what we really think of when we think of all those things? Well, God said, “If you want that, then choose my commands. Embrace my commands. Follow my moral law. Fear God. Walk humbly before your God.” He says, “That is, in effect, choosing life.” The choice, in effect, that choice, is a choice for a biblical worldview. It’s a view of God, what He says and why He says it.
Sam Rohrer: However, He said in that same passage, “If you reject me, reject my commands, my moral law, then you’ll lose your freedom. You’ll lose that freedom for your families. Pestilence and plague will come upon you. You will get what you have chosen, and that’s death and judgment.” Now, does that sound perhaps like America today? The applications are enormous. Rejecting God and His plan for society is to reject a biblical worldview.
Sam Rohrer: That’s the subject of the research, again, I’ve just said, completed by George Barna, now the Director of the Cultural Research Center at Arizona Christian University. George, before you share your findings about the differences in biblical worldview, attitudes between different faith connections, which is the word you’re using as you call it, let’s make sure that we’re on the same page here so we understand. Please define what you mean by biblical worldview. How did you determine what the participants were defining as a biblical worldview? Just to make sure that we’re on the same page here.
George Barna: Yes, very good question. Really, a worldview is the primary mental, emotional, and spiritual filter that you use for decision-making. Everybody has a worldview. You have to get through life. It’s the thing that helps you to make sense of reality and figure out how you want to respond to what your place in it will be. When we talk about a biblical worldview, what we’re talking about is having a mental, moral, emotional, and spiritual filter that’s based on God’s truths and principles as given to us in the Bible. In my research over the last 25 years, sadly, what I found is that of the tens and tens of thousands of people that we’ve interviewed about worldview, we haven’t yet identified a single one who has a pure worldview. In other words, everybody tends to go around with a worldview that’s a synthesis of bits and pieces from the many different worldviews that are out there, whether it’s postmodernism, Marxism, secular humanism, modern mysticism, a biblical worldview. There’s all kinds of options that you can draw from.
George Barna: When I talk about people having a biblical worldview, I’m not suggesting that they’re perfect, that they’ve got it all figured out. What we landed on was that if somebody in response to the questions that we ask about their worldview, 80% of the time or more than 80% chooses a perspective that is biblical, then we would say, “Okay, they have a predominantly biblical worldview.” Now, when you say, are people calling it biblical worldview? No, we find that people don’t think about worldview. They don’t know how to characterize their worldview. Most of them don’t have a label for their personal worldview. We do find that a large share of people, when you ask them if they have a biblical worldview, will say yes. Then, of course, when you ask all the kinds of questions that we do about both their beliefs and their behavior, we find that those two really don’t sit together.
Dave Kistler: George, I want to echo what Gary and Sam have both said. It is a delight to have you back on the program. It has been way too long, so we are thrilled to have you back. It’s great to hear your voice. I want to ask you a question about the research that you’ve just completed. Sam used the term just a couple of minutes ago called “faith connections.” I’m assuming in your research when you refer to faith connections, you’re referring to church affiliation or church alignment. If I’m wrong on that, correct me. I’m just curious. What kind of church affiliations you’ve found or identified within this research? How do they compare to each other as far as what percentage of each of those groups have a biblical worldview?
George Barna: Yes, good question. I mean, we break down the research in a lot of different ways. When we talk about the different faith groupings in America, the faith tribes, if you will, who are the faith connections that people have, there are a lot of different ways of looking at it. We could talk, first of all, about the biggest of those groups from a Christian vantage point, which is a group that are self-identified Christians. These are people who call themselves Christians. That’s about 7 out of 10 people in our country. Among the self-identified Christians, 9% have a biblical worldview. Now, you can narrow that funnel and go down in terms of getting closer to God, getting closer to Christ, getting closer to the Scriptures. One of those groups might be born-again Christians, not people who call themselves born-again. We don’t measure it that way, but people who say that they are Christian. They believe in God. They know they have great confidence that when they die, they will go to heaven or live eternally with God only because they’ve confessed their sins and accepted Christ as their Savior.
George Barna: That particular group, which I would categorize as born-again… Only God truly knows. It’s our best effort to estimate it. That’s roughly one third of the population, 31 to 32% of the adult population. 19% of those people, one out of every five of the born-again Christians, has a biblical worldview. You can look at the largest segment of individuals who attend Christian churches on any given weekend. Those are what we might call “notional Christians.” These are individuals who consider themselves to be Christian, but they are not born-again. They’re not trusting Christ for their salvation. They represent about 4 out of every 10 adults in America today. It’s the largest group of people who are associated with Christian churches. Only 1/10 of 1% of those individuals have a biblical worldview.
George Barna: When we talk about mission fields… I know for all of us… We were talking about this. The mission field is a big deal because it’s big on the heart of God. Well, the big mission field that we face in America is already in our churches. We’ve got a lot of work that we could be doing there. We can break it down in terms of what kinds of churches that people attend. Evangelical churches… About one out of every eight Americans, 13%, attend an evangelical church. 21% of those people have a biblical worldview. If we look at those attending charismatic or Pentecostal churches, that’s about 1 out of every 16 adults, 6% of that population. 16% of those people, those who attend Pentecostal or charismatic churches, have a biblical worldview.
George Barna: When we look at mainline churches, we’re talking about 9% of the population, only 8% of whom have a biblical worldview. When we look at Catholic churches, 21% of the American adult population attends a Catholic church. 1% of those people have a biblical worldview. You can see there are radical differences. It goes back to, what do they believe about the Bible? What do they do with the Bible? How did they teach the Bible? Do they teach the Bible? How often did they teach them the Bible?
George Barna: It makes a big difference. You can see the implications of whether a church has, what we would call, a high view or a low view of scripture. In other words, is it really truth that we could trust all the time or is it a lot of good ideas? Maybe there’s some truth, maybe not. It was written by man. We can’t always trust it. That would be a low view of scripture. You’ve got that range of perspectives. You can see that impacts the kind of teaching that people get, which then ultimately results in the kind of worldview that people want out of the church [inaudible 00:27:24].
Sam Rohrer: Ladies and gentlemen, you heard what George is saying there. It all goes back to what we believe about the authority of scripture. That’s why we go there all the time and that’s just where George went right now.
Sam Rohrer: Well, we’re going to move now into our final segment. We often refer to this sometimes as the solution segment. We’d like to take the information, the substance, and do some application to that.
Sam Rohrer: Our theme today has been the true deficit, that is Americans with a biblical worldview. The research information being shared by George Barna, our special guest today, you can find at a website. There’s actually a couple sites. I’m going to give you the shortest one here: culturalresearchcenter.com. I think if you go to that culturalresearchcenter.com, you will find information where you can actually download the survey for yourself. I think that would be a very, very good thing. Study it yourself. Look it through because a lot of information’s been given, percentages. I know you have not been able to write it all down, so go there and do that. I think you’ll also find that posted on our website, standinthegapradio.com or americanpastorsnetwork.net. We’ll put something up there as well at some point today, so you’ll be able to find that the information is of that value.
Sam Rohrer: In segment two, I referenced the biblical principle of doing research. In the case of Solomon, David did it before building the temple. Christ referred to it before building a tower. Joshua did it when he sent the 12 spies into the promised land. Research is important. Studying, understanding is important. Too many people don’t do their homework or their research before embarking on major decisions. Whether you consider that and apply that to what’s happening with coronavirus policy, which is being developed sometime on the fly or a host of other things, you’ve got to do right homework. You’ve got to do right research or the results will not be good. Yet, I think perhaps even a greater problem that I’ve seen over my lifetime is that even when research or data is available, people don’t follow it. That’s really what the Bible is all about. It’s research. It’s guidance, but people don’t follow it.
Sam Rohrer: Well, in this final segment, we’re going to conclude this discussion today by talking with George Barna about what this research actually says from the standpoint of what’s it saying, not just the details, but what message is it delivering and the challenge that it places before all Americans in a general sense and before the American church in particular. George, to sum it all up, if you could, what does this research scream to America, generally, to American civic leaders, and to American parents? Then we’ll come back in the next question, Gary will bring up here about the church. What do you say? What message is it screaming to them? What should be the response of that segment of our culture?
George Barna: Sam, it’s an interesting time to be having this conversation with the coronavirus impacting literally everybody in America’s lives because it’s a time for us to be applying God’s truth during a time of crisis. I think one of the things that the research clearly points out is that Americans are not looking at life through a spiritual lens. We’re not putting things in a spiritual context, recognizing that everything we do every day we live is lived in the context of spiritual battle but also, spiritual opportunities. In order to battle effectively or in order to take positive advantage of those opportunities, we have to be able to identify truth and the applicable principles that stem from that truth. Of course, that truth comes from God’s Word. That tells us, man, we ought to be spending a lot of time studying what God has told us for our own good.
George Barna: If we were to do that, again, thinking about the coronavirus environment where one of the things that we’d have to go back to, God tells us, “The only thing you should fear is God.” Don’t fear all these other things. Don’t fear the virus. Don’t fear whatever else it may be. Fear God. Obey God. Love God. Serve God. Know God. Those are the things that the Scriptures drive us to do. Part of that process means that this is the best time we’ve had to repent. Now, we may not think of ourselves as bad people, but again, we have to put everything in context, biblical context, and understand that there are things that we do that offend God, things that we would call sin. Being able to repent of those things… Repentance brings with it the opportunity to change how we live, to change how we think, to change how we’re interacting with other people. It’s a great time for change.
George Barna: I think, really, what this research is doing is trying to drive us back to basics, to the foundation, to reexamining, what is it that we say matters? What is it that we say is important in our life? How are we going to deal with it? Hardships that come out of something like coronavirus, from a biblical perspective, frequently… Although we don’t like to hear this and we don’t think of it this way… Quite honestly, my research shows that churches don’t often teach this. The hardships that we encounter in life are allowed by God as a gift to us to bring Him back, to bring us closer to Him. If we can begin to see these things through that spiritual lens, it’ll help us to be broken of sin, broken of self, broken of society, and really beholden to Him, brought closer to Him. We were made in His image for a reason.
George Barna: When we go back and study the Scriptures, and try to figure that out, and see how that applies to our life, it changes everything. This is a great opportunity for us to take advantage of maybe a time of slow-down in our life, where maybe we can be a little bit more reflective. Maybe we get to spend more time with our families. Together, we can go into a time of course correction where we’re thinking about the role that worship, and evangelism, and discipleship, and stewardship, and serving others, and community with other believers… The role that those six things, which really constitute our faith, play in our life. It’s a great moment in time for the church to be the church.
Gary Dull: Well, it truly is, George. I appreciate you bringing that up, particularly as it relates to COVID-19. In fact, this evening at 6:00, I’m going to be meeting with our leadership to talk about COVID-19 in relationship to the biblical worldview. It’s interesting that you bring that up here today. Of course, it’s true that God does cause, allow, and direct all things, and we need to recognize that. George, you talked a little bit about the American church. What does your research say about the church, the pulpit, and Christians, generally? Are people learning to understand it a little bit more about what the biblical worldview really is all about?
George Barna: Great question, because we’ve got this conundrum here where on the one hand, what we find is that roughly four out of five of the senior pastors of theologically conservative Christian churches, i.e., churches that believe the Bible is truth. It can be trusted, it is reliable. We find that about four out of five of the senior pastors of those churches think they’re doing an excellent or very good job on a five-point scale. They’re doing a swell job of teaching a biblical worldview to their people. Yet, what we find is, while four out of five of them believe that, they believe that the majority of the people in their congregations have a biblical worldview, we found that less than one out of five actually do have that kind of a worldview.
George Barna: We’ve got to transition. The definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results… Well, we’ve been doing the same thing for a long time, and we’re getting the opposite of the results that we want. We’ve got to change. We’ve got to recognize that the goal of preaching and teaching isn’t the transmission of information. It’s not the quantity of notes that people in the seats are taking. It’s about whether or not God’s life principles are being applied in ways that are transforming who we are.
Sam Rohrer: We’re going to have to stop right there. George, we’re sorry. We’re out of time. Ladies and gentlemen, the link to the survey will be on our social media, Facebook. You go there. We will also put it on our website. George, thank you so much for being with us today. Great information. Ladies and gentlemen, take a little bit of what you heard today. Take all of it. Put it into application. Apply it to your life. Stand in the gap more effectively.