Isaac Crockett: Hello, I’m Isaac Crockett and joining me today is the honorable Sam Rohrer, president of the American Pastors Network, and Dr. Gary Dull. And as we get into our program today, I was thinking today, in my devotions, a song came to mind that we used to sing in my family, during our family devotions. And part of this chorus goes, “I want to do thy will, oh Lord. Take me, break me, mold me, and make me. I want to do thy will, oh Lord.” And our guest today is Jerry Thacker. And if you look at his life, he has had a lot of things that we would say would break you, and mold you, and the goal would be make us more like Jesus Christ as a result, much like I think of Job in the Bible. And Jerry has been dealing with a deadly virus. We hear so much about this pandemic of a certain type of coronavirus that is causing the COVID-19. Well, Jerry’s been dealing with a deadly virus that’s been a pandemic for over 35 years.
Isaac Crockett: He lost his son, when his son was a 16 years old, to an illness that took his life, just over a day in about 30 hours. And then just recently, just a little over a week ago, he lost his younger brother to this coronavirus, to COVID-19. And so Jerry, my family has known you literally my whole life, and before that you were in the same class, you were classmates with my dad in university. You were a very close friend of my uncle since he was in college, and he even admits that regularly. You have been involved with martial arts. You actually even taught. You were an instructor. And I’ve looked at your life, knowing you my whole life, or you knowing me, I should say, my whole life, and I often look at your life, and I see how much of that self-discipline, and the patience that one would learn, and that you used to teach through karate, how in many ways, that’s been a defining part of how you have dealt with these different difficulties that could break you, but they can also mold you and make you.
Isaac Crockett: And even more than that, I see a desire in you that you have an understanding of God’s will be done. “Thy will be done.” God’s sovereignty controlling even our reactions in all of this. So Jerry, could you maybe just fill our listening audience in on the deadly virus that you’ve been dealing with now for actually over three decades?
Jerry Thacker: Well, thank you for having me on the program today, Isaac. It’s great to be with you. I’ve never thought that I would deal with a situation such as the one I’m going to talk about today, but God had other plans. You had your song that you got in devotions today. Well, I had one from Ron Hamilton, that I came to Pennsylvania with, that talked about “Lord, lead me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. Sever any ties, save the tie that binds me to thy heart.” And that song was what we were singing on the way of moving to Pennsylvania to start a marketing company up here with Sam Rohrer as one of the first clients that we helped along the way.
Jerry Thacker: But the real interesting part of all this was we came to Pennsylvania with two children, an older daughter, was four and a half, and then this 18 month old, and then within several years my wife became pregnant again with what would be our third child, a little daughter who was born in 1984. And that was all fine and everything was good, until in 1986 I went in to my office, which was my habit then to go in on Saturday morning early, and there was a phone message from a doctor, a doctor who ran the local blood bank, and it said that I should call him at his home.
Jerry Thacker: Well, when nine o’clock rolled around, I did call him, and this doctor told me that when I had given blood at the church blood drive the previous Wednesday night, that the blood was tested, and that I was infected with what was then called HTLV-3. You know it better today as the Human Immuno Deficiency Virus, or HIV. Back then, it first went by the name of AIDS, Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome. Well, that definitely shot the adrenaline through my body. I’d never had any reason to have that disease. My wife and I were virgins when we were married, we’d never done drugs, we’d never shared needles, we’d never shared bodily fluids with other people. No affairs or extra marital relationships. But here this doctor was telling me that I had this disease in my blood. And I immediately went to see a friend of mine who was a counselor at the church, and we talked about things, and basically had theologically come to the same position, and that is God, in his sovereignty, is in control of our lives, and in his sovereignty, this had come my way.
Jerry Thacker: Within a day or two my wife was tested. She too was found to be HIV positive and that was traced back to the blood supply and the transfusion that my wife received after giving birth to our third child in a hospital nearby. And so here we were, in all probability the daughter was HIV infected too because she had breastfed from her mother. And that’s one of the vectors through which it could come. Then sure enough, over time, we found out that all three of us were infected with HIV, and that that was going to be a part of our lives.
Jerry Thacker: So we still didn’t know why God brought that to us. And over time it became clear that he had a purpose for it, so that really made us fall back on him. The Book Of Job became my favorite book of the Bible, and especially in the last four chapters where Job actually argued with God about things. And God basically said, “I’m God. This is what I’m doing with you. Be quiet.” And Job put his hand up on his mouth and was quiet as God taught him in the school of hard knocks, as it were.
Sam Rohrer: To hear you share some of that, you and I, as you’ve mentioned, we’ve known each other for a long time, and I remember walking through those earlier days, and sharing some with you. It’s been an amazing thing. We’re going to get more in the program, how it’s impacted your faith, and what you’ve learned. But when you look at the unknown aspects of what’s happening with COVID-19 now, and the fear that it’s spurring, just a couple of similarities? Not the same? What runs through your mind when you see this kind of thing happening on a broad scale?
Jerry Thacker: Well Sam, in the early days, as you know, people thought that HIV, or HTLV-3, or AIDS, might be airborne, but there were studies done, primarily with the US military volunteers, that showed pretty early on that this was not the kind of a disease that you could get through airborne transmission. That it had to be an exchange of bodily fluids, which would include blood, or breast milk, or sexual fluids, and that those are the three things. And then of course needles. If someone uses a needle and then gives it to someone else, there would be blood left in the needle, and then if they use that needle to inject themselves with drugs, then they would get HIV through that vector. In fact, that’s the main vector right now, as we’ve got drugs to treat HIV, with 60,000 people in the United States still getting this disease every year.
Isaac Crockett: Wow. 60,000 every year. Whether you’re, right now, dealing with COVID-19, or maybe there’s folks out there listening that also have HIV, or cancer, or old age, or whatever it is, the Bible tells us that every one of us has a time. It’s appointed until every person wants to die. We are all terminal, and we want to talk to Jerry when we come back about how you prepare yourself when you get a terminal sentence like that. Like you have AIDS. We’re going to talk about that in much more when they come back from this brief timeout.
Isaac Crockett: Welcome back to the program. I’m Isaac Crockett joined by Sam Rohrer, and Gary Dull, and we’re talking with Jerry Thacker as, right now a lot of people, in fact I’d say just about everybody, is thinking more about their own mortality than normally would be thinking that way. And we’re being more closely affected by different ones getting this COVID-19 and other things. So many things have changed. And Jerry, you recently lost your brother to COVID-19, and I think we’re all gripped with fear, and ultimately a fear is that we would die. And I think for many, it’s not just the fact of dying, but it’s dying right now in a hospital, separated from all of those we love, and just the uncertainties of what’s going to happen after that. But back in the 1980s when you found out and you just described to us, Jerry, that phone call from that doctor. You gave at your church for a blood drive, and he contacted you to tell you you have something that you thought was impossible, that you would have, that you have HIV or AIDS as they called it back then.
Isaac Crockett: And you find out your wife, you’ve got young children. It’s devastating news to anybody. And yet you went on to write about it. You’ve spoken to hundreds of thousands of people about what you’ve gone through. And so I’m just curious, today we’re looking at this idea today, where is your faith, and seeing God’s sovereignty, even when we’re suffering in a situation like that. How did you process this information that was coming at you so quickly, and how did you not lose hope in what the Lord was doing in your life at a time like that?
Jerry Thacker: Well, Isaac, the main thing that kept me going during that time was the fact that I knew that God was sovereign, and that there was not a hair from our head that could fall out, that he wouldn’t know it. There was not a virus in our body that he wouldn’t know it. He could even tell us the number of them. And it was knowing that God was in charge that really helped us get through it. They told us when we first got the disease to go home, get ready to die because at that point there were no drugs. And we basically just had to have faith really that we were going to make it through the next three or four years. And the doctors told us to find somebody that could take care of our children. Just really get ready to close up the family die.
Jerry Thacker: And Job had a similar situation. Job’s 10 children were killed all at once when a house fell on them. Job lost all of his wealth. He lost his health in the second round of Satan pestering him. And God kept him alive through all of that and restored him later on. And so it was that hope that God might want to do that with us. Although if he didn’t want to, that’s okay too. That we had to deal with. But more important than that to us at that moment, was the fact that HIV was misunderstood in the country and in the world. Most Christians who heard about HIV knew that many of the people who got it, got it through homosexual contact. And in fact for most people, including some of my family, when they found out about us having HIV, they equated getting it with being a homosexual, which was not our case.
Jerry Thacker: Ours was clearly one of the 13,000 cases where bloodborne transmission is what happened. And in addition to those 13,000 people, which included a lot of people who needed to get hemophiliac treatment, that there were 13,000 who’d gotten transfusions just for going in for a heart transplant or something. So there was more than just homosexuality that was driving this whole thing. It was a death sentence. But you know what? We’re all terminal. There’s not a one of us who will get off of this planet alive. The mortality rate of human beings on earth is 100% over time. And we’re all going to die, whether it’s of AIDS, or old age, like my grandmother, who lived to be 106 but she still died, and we will too.
Jerry Thacker: And so the really important thing, which I try to tell 500,000 people as I’ve gone around the world, been on [O’Riley’s 00:12:29] program, and been on Focus On The Family, and in churches, colleges all over the place, and Uganda, and Peru, in south America, other places, in Mexico, is that we’re all going to die. We’re all going to face that thing called death. And the real question is what’s going to happen next? Do you know Jesus Christ as your personal savior? Have you repented of your sin? Asked him to come into your heart and save you, and then gone on to live for him in your life? And more than that, have you helped your people in your family to understand the same principle, that God is willing to save us all, and to give us a home in Heaven, if we’re willing to bow the knee, and to repent, and to say, “Lord, regardless of what you take me home from, then I’m ready to go.”
Gary Dull: Jerry, that’s a tremendous biblical outlook on your situation. I mean, everything that you said there relates to the biblical worldview and I appreciate you sharing it with our people. And there’s no doubt about it but that your sentence of death has been an affect upon you, and your wife, and your family, as well as others. And thank the Lord that you’ve had the opportunity to share the testimony, and how God has guided you, and has directed you through this period of time. And still continues to do so. We have a pastor in the town where I serve here, in Altoona, who contacted AIDS as a result of helping somebody else in an automobile accident. And so you never know how one can pick these things up very, very innocently.
Gary Dull: And when he went through his situation early on, there were those people who stood with him, and there were those who questioned him. Just like you said, was he practicing homosexuality or immorality? Well, not at all, but it’s just the fact that he, very innocently, picked this up, as indeed, you did as well. Now in most cases though, in a case like this, where somebody is facing a death defining disease, the people of the Lord come around and help. Did that take place in your case, Jerry?
Jerry Thacker: I’m sorry to say that it didn’t. There was so much fear connected to this disease that our family decided to be silent about seven years because people… Actually when I did go public with things, there were still people who, when they heard I was speaking at a church, would not come to the services. And it was because of their fear of what they didn’t know, of what they didn’t understand. And what they didn’t understand was how this disease is transmitted from one person to the other. And once they knew that, then they were a lot better, as far as wanting to help, and praying for us, and all kinds of different things.
Jerry Thacker: But you know what Gary? The other thing which happened early on is we had no drugs. We had no way to even fight this. It’s kind of like the current disease situation. But what we did know is that God, according to Psalm 139, has fearfully and wonderfully made our bodies, and that in our body, he put a strong immune system. A system that is so strong that it can actually kill you if it goes the other way and is too active. And so we decided that what we would do is to boost the immune system as much as possible, and to that end we went to see the naturalist people, who were naturopaths, who used natural substances to boost the immune system. And we did that for years and years. Quite honestly, it was very expensive because these things are not major market consumer items. They’re specialty items and some of the things were just tremendously weird. For example, we went to one doctor who gave us these roots that came from China, and he told us to come home and boil them in a pot. Well, we did that, and then he said drink the tea that comes from that until it’s all gone. So we put it in a plastic container, and by the time we got through with it, it was so smelly that we had to throw the container out.
Jerry Thacker: But then, in addition to that, there were all these pills that you had to take which were vitamins primarily, but we continued to live. That’s the most important thing. We did not die. We were able to take care of our family and go on, and eventually the church came around, when we went public with our disease process, the two churches that we’ve been in said it came in to our lives, and both churches were extremely ready to help, and wanted to do whatever they could. And they prayed for us, and they walked with us, and they listened to us, and they helped us. And that was really something that was encouraging to us.
Sam Rohrer: Jerry, only just a little bit of time left here, but let’s compare that to the circumstances here. At that point you said there were no drugs, you did not have a clear pathway, but you said, “Look, we are fearfully and wonderfully made. You did things to improve the immune system and so forth.” Can you make an application to what’s happening right now, even with this virus where it’s going around, and so forth now?
Jerry Thacker: Well, most of the people who died of this virus so far are dying because of what’s called comorbidities. In other words, they have something else going on in their body that has given them major problems. For example, in the case of my brother, he had lung problems from the time he was born. They used machines on him, back in 1953, that apparently did stuff to his lungs. It made him survive, but it gave him life long lung problems, but then he also had severe diabetes. And those two things right there are comorbidities that are a part of what happens with a COVID-19. In fact, the first thing that it attacks is your lungs usually. And so you’ll be well for a while in the hospital, and then this virus will, all of a sudden, just turn, make a 90 degree turn, and go into the lungs, and take those out first. And then eventually the kidneys go. And once that happens, then you’re body can’t get rid of the waste fast enough, and you succumb to the disease. So those kinds of things will happen. So my way of thinking, we really need to be looking at what we’re eating, and what we’re drinking, and how many chemicals we’re putting in our body, and how can we keep our immune system strong.
Isaac Crockett: Well that is all very helpful and practical information as we rely on the Lord, and then use the creation that he has given us, and the intelligence, and the options that we have.
_____________________________________________________________________________________So Jerry, as we’re listening to your testimony unfold of how you find out that your wife had received the blood transfusions that she got after giving birth to your daughter in 1984. When my mom gave birth to me in 1981, she also received blood transfusions, and those days no one knew what AIDS was. And through that contracted HIV. You’ve got it, your daughter got it through the breast milk. You had two other children, and so your whole family is dealing with this, and like you said, you were told to get things in order to have somebody even take care of your children when you died because they didn’t think you would have very long until that would be the result. Well, if we could maybe fast forward now, almost 10 years, to Thanksgiving of 1995. Your family is now dealing with possibility of you, and your wife, and your daughter dying from AIDS, and yet God had other plans, and then we come to that time in your life. Can you tell us about what happened then?
Jerry Thacker: Surely. We’re not done until God says we’re done. The day of our birth and the day of our death is determined by him. The scripture says that Jesus Christ upholds all things in the earth by the word of his power, and as we study the immune system, and what was going on with HIV, and the fact that it literally turned the body’s immune system into a virus factory, and then eventually there were more viruses than anything else in your body, and that that would kill you. We had to understand that the microscopic nature of what was going on in this battle, which only God, at that time, could really take care of for you. And so we had three people in our family who are HIV infected, and two who weren’t. My older daughter, and my son, who’s the middle child. And things were okay.
Jerry Thacker: It was obviously painful to deal with this whole thing. The whole family hurt because of what was going on with the three who were infected. But the most painful thing that God has brought us through, even more than the death diagnosis, I believe, is the death of our son Jared. He was 16 years old. He came home from school on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving in 1995. That evening, he and I sang a duet to the people in our family who had gathered in our home, came over from Michigan to be with us for Thanksgiving on Thursday. But on Thursday, Jared got sick right after Thanksgiving dinner, and he was sick all night. It seemed like the flu. It was a fever, and had thrown up. The typical thing that you would associate with the flu. But he was still sick Friday morning. So I called the doctor, Dr. Bennett at his office. This is Black Friday, if you will. And he was immediately rushed to the hospital. His blood pressure had fallen tremendously, and he was in bad shape.
Jerry Thacker: He was, as the doctor said, “He’s in grave condition.” Anytime you hear that word, just understand that it’s used with reason. By Friday night he was dead. He died of pneumococcal meningitis and sepsis, which came with that. And since that time we’ve learned that there are 3,000 young people in the United States that die every year of meningitis, and it took him. It was quick. It was less than 30 hours. We had kids, we had those two kids come to the hospital and pray for Jared while he was dying, and [inaudible 00:22:51] is that he was gone by that night.
Sam Rohrer: Jerry, I tell you, when those of us who have sons just can only imagine what goes through mind and heart when you envision that God’s got a plan for them, and it wasn’t realized, and takes you back to the Job days when you were talking about that earlier, but Jared was on a pathway to serving the Lord. You found some things that he had written, I believe? Share some of that.
Jerry Thacker: That’s right. Sam. Jared was a creative guy and a leader. He was a head of their worship team at his Christian school. He spoke wherever he could. In fact he actually, toward the end of his life, would go out with me when I’d go speak at a Christian school, or some place. And he would tell what it’s like to live in a house with three people with HIV. But about five months after he died, I was cleaning out his computer, and here’s what I found. He had written something called For Him, and here’s what it said.
Jerry Thacker: “My Christian training started from the day I was born, and it started with my parents. Ever since I can remember, it’s always been my parents who have given me insight into what God is doing and will do in my life. When I was very young, about three or four, from the age of 12, I remember the same nightly routine. My mother would tuck me in, sign me a song, and then she would say something like this, which will stay with me for the rest of my life. ‘God’s got something special for you.’ I did and still believe that this is true for every Christian. Those words, however simple they may be, have helped guide me through some of the darkest times in my life. When I got into an accident and almost lost my life, those words gave me the strength to trust God. When life was more than I could bear, and I tried to end it, those words echoed through my mind.” And yes, he did have a gun at his head when that happened, and it did fire.
Jerry Thacker: “My parents had taught me so much about God, and I trust him for everything. They showed me the faith to not only trust God to do things, but the faith to trust God to give them the power to withstand. To use God given talents for his service. To give until you cannot give. To live every day to the fullest for him.” I didn’t read that because I was a great parent. Like most parents, recent surveys show that during the year, we’ll have 221 failures. And I’m sure that my number is higher than that. But even though we were frail, failing, challenged, sick parents, we had decided early on to try to teach our children that which would put them in good stead for the rest of their lives.
Jerry Thacker: He learned more about Christ in his 16 years than many adults learn in their entire lives. Lessons learned, well the first one is our children aren’t our own. They belong to God. We need to teach them to know and love God from their youngest years. We need to help them learn to serve God, and help others as they witness for Christ. You know, I miss Jared. He was my only son. I can only imagine what God felt when his only son died because I know what I felt. And I know that even though it’s been two and a half decades now, I still miss the boy. And I’m looking forward to seeing him again.
Gary Dull: Amen. And there’s no doubt that you will. Jerry, you and your family have gone through some tremendous, tremendous trials and you’ve seen God’s faithfulness there. And of course, what you just read from Jared is a testimony to his life, but is also a testimony to you, and your wife, and how you brought Jared up in the nurture, and the admonition of the Lord. But the Bible tells us that God comforts us with a great comfort and that we are to use that comfort to comfort others who are in times of need as well. How has this whole experience of going through the AIDS, and then the death of your son, how has God used that in your ministry in being able to reach out to others as well in providing comfort and strength?
Jerry Thacker: Well, Gary, we’ve met a lot of people along the way. I estimate I’ve spoken to about a half a million since this all started, and some of them were in places like Africa where, one village I went to, they were digging 25 graves every Saturday, knowing that they would have them filled by the end of the week. But we’ve run into people who’ve lost sons, and lost daughters. And you know what? That’s an exclusive club that nobody should ever have to belong to because our children are not supposed to die before we do. It’s totally backwards. It’s not what God, in establishing the family, wanted to have happen. So helping others who need comfort is important. We’ve had people call us, we’ve had people with HIV call us. We’ve had people who are walking skeletons show up in our meetings and hear the gospel of Jesus Christ. Even at Jared’s memorial service, we had 700 people show up, and there were at least a dozen who professed Christ that night. So taking whatever God gives you, and recognizing that it’s from him to you, so that you can minister to others, is what’s important, and you need to recognize that, and not just go along that [inaudible 00:28:36].
Isaac Crockett: Welcome back to the final part of our program. I’m Isaac Crockett joined by Sam Rohrer, Gary Dull, and all of you listening, you know that we’re going through hard times, very difficult times as a nation. To go from a nation that was experiencing the best economy we’ve ever had, or at least lowest unemployment, maybe ever, or in a long time, just a roaring economy, and so many comforts that we just take for granted. And then to have everything change almost overnight, and to have so many loved ones, as our guest with us today, Jerry, his brother passed away from COVID-19. And all of these different things going on. Now we have tornadoes, and severe storms, and all these issues happening all at once. And it can be frightening. And while we go through these hard times, while we work through these difficulties, as Christians our faith is still strong, and our hope is still in the Lord.
Isaac Crockett: And so today we’re wrapping up a program where we’re looking at our faith, and seeing God’s sovereignty, even in difficulties, and especially in suffering. And so Jerry Thacker has been our guest with us today. Jerry, here it was, in the mid 90s your wife received blood transfusions where she contracted HIV, and you, and your youngest daughter got it as well. And you got this, what was then thought to be a death sentence of AIDS, back in the mid 80s, 1986, I think you said, when you had given blood at a blood drive through your church. And here we are, by God’s grace, it’s the year 2020. And many folks who prayed for you during that time that are your age, or younger, have been taken. The Lord has taken them home. And yet the Lord has still left you here. You’ve survived HIV, AIDS for more than three decades. You’ve had two bouts with cancer. You’ve gone through the death of your son as just a teenager. And then here in the last couple of weeks, the death of your brother, your younger brother.
Isaac Crockett: And just want to give you a chance to give any final thoughts as you walk through what happened with your brother with COVID-19, or just as you look at all that’s happening with this pandemic, as compared to other pandemics like AIDS or HIV. Any final thoughts, but then if you could just pass on to our listeners some of the things perhaps which you have learned that could be a help for them in their lives with these troubles that we’re experiencing right now.
Jerry Thacker: Sure. You know, I think that one of the many things that we, as Americans, have not had to do much is suffer. And there is quite a bit that the Bible has to say about suffering, and quite a bit of good things that come from suffering. We don’t think of it that way. We want things to be corrected quickly, and go on with our lives, and have fun. We don’t seek an exit and we really, if we belong with God, we need to seek God instead of an exit. We have to give up control, knowing that he is in control. We can’t control outcomes. God’s in control of outcomes, even with the COVID-19. He brought this for a purpose, and what we have to figure out is that we’re not victims but that God is directing us and teaching us that maybe making us suffer, so we’ll be stronger. You know there’s a saying that says, “What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.” And believe it or not, sometimes that’s exactly what God does.
Jerry Thacker: He doesn’t kill us, but he gives us the kind of thing that makes us stronger, and we need to make sure that we’re listening to him. And we need to listen to people too. One of the things I’m most thankful for, as far as my brother’s concerned, is the fact that in the last six months or so, I’ve had at least four occasions where he and I just sat and talked for an hour and a half. And we talked about our childhood in West Virginia, and we talked about business that we’ve done. We talked about our families, and the vacations we spent together. Funny things that happened. And that’s good. We don’t do enough of that with our families these days. We’re too busy. We’re looking at other things rather than the relationships, and the help, and the breath, and the life that God has given us.
Jerry Thacker: One of the things that I wrote, I’m a writer by trade, and something that I looked to find it on the internet, and I couldn’t find it at all. And eventually I just said, “Well, I guess this is something that I wrote, and I could put it out there and say, ‘I wrote it'”. But basically, it reads like this, “God will keep us alive, and has a purpose for us. And if we’re Christians, we’re always only a breath away from peace.” You know, God is the one that determines when he’s going to call us home. Our life’s purpose should be to know Christ, and to love others for his glory, and not for our own.
Isaac Crockett: Amen. Amen. That is a great way to sum things up. And Gary, I would just give you a chance as well to give any kind of final encouragement to our listeners during this time where we definitely need a word of encouragement.
Gary Dull: Well, I certainly am thankful for the opportunity that we’ve had to hear Jerry’s testimony. And thank you, Jerry, for sharing it with our audience here today. I’m reminded that God is sovereign, God has a plan. We have a purpose, but God always has a plan, and it’s important for us to depend upon him and trust in him. I think of that passage in first Corinthians chapter 10 and 13 where it says, “There hath no temptation that would be trial, problem, situation taken you but such as is common to man, but God is faithful who will not allow you to be tempted, or tried, or have a problem about that ye are able, but will with that situation also make a way to escape that ye may be able to bear it.” And Jerry, what we have heard in your testimony is that God has provided for you through his faithfulness. And I say to all of our listeners today, no matter what you’re facing, whether it’s COVID-19, or something else that’s in your life right now, remember, God is faithful. He will give you the strength to go through it. If you know him through faith in his son, Jesus Christ.
Gary Dull: As Jerry mentioned earlier, our life is as a vapor. It could vanish at any moment. Any one of us could die before this program is over. You could die before this program is over too, dear listener. And I would encourage you to make sure that you know Christ. The Bible says, “Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved”, which means to be delivered from sin. It’s power, it’s penalty, and it’s present through faith in Jesus Christ alone. Please call upon the name of the Lord if you’ve not done so, ask him to save you. He will. And then when death comes upon you, it will be your entrance into the presence of God, the land without tears, the time without end, where you’ll glory and bask on his glory, forever and ever. Make sure you know the Lord.
Isaac Crockett: Amen. That’s so true. Thank you, Sam and Gary for being on. And Jerry, thank you so much for sharing what the Lord has done in your life.