This transcript is taken from the Stand in the Gap Today Radio program originally aired on July 28, 2020. To listen to the program, please click HERE.

Isaac Crockett:                  Hello, I’m Isaac Crockett. And joining me today, we have the honorable Sam Rohrer, the president of the American Pastors Network, and Dr. Gary Dull, the pastor of Faith Baptist Church in Altoona, Pennsylvania. And we’re going to talk today about some of the things that happen in our current culture of what’s going on with the COVID lockdowns and with the protests. But what happens when Christians say no? What if we don’t go along with some of the things that either are politically correct, or our governors or different authorities are trying to push onto pastors, and churches, and Christians? So as you’re listening, there’s different things that you’re hearing, and different facts are being sometimes used. Figures are being twisted sometimes, it seems. But what happens when we as Christians just say no?

                                             And we’ve seen a lot of cases lately, more and more, and I think every week we see more pastor saying no. More pastors refusing to go along with orders from governors or others to shut their doors and not allow the open worship together of their congregation. One of the highest profile cases that just has really been hitting the news and the social media circuits this last week was when Grace Community Church of Sun Valley, California, this is pastor John MacArthur, who, he’s in his 80s, he’s been pastoring for decades. He and the elders at the church there, they released a statement that they were going to have church services, even though the governor of California has really forbidden it.

                                             And this is a quote from an article that they wrote about it. They said, “We cannot and will not acquiesce to a government-imposed moratorium on our weekly congregational worship or other regular corporate gatherings. Compliance would be disobedience to our Lord’s clear commands.” And you can go online and read the whole thing. But this has created a lot of reactions, both positive and negative, from evangelical leaders and from other pastors and such looking at this. And so Sam and Gary, I know you guys probably have looked into this even more than I have, so I’m going to ask you some things about these pastors who say no, but just real quick, your reaction. Sam, you have positive or negative reactions to what Grace Community Church is saying here about they need to obey God and go ahead and meet?

Sam Rohrer:                      Well, Isaac, I think that it is a wonderful thing to have authority as reflected by those we know biblically. One of those authorities resides in the pulpit. One of those authorities resides in civil government. So you’ve got the governor of California, then you’ve got pastors. The very fact that we have a debate and a pushback in this fashion by the pulpit is exactly the kind of debate we need to have. It is a good and appropriate thing. And I’d like to put this twist on it as we go into the program. It’s easy for other people to say, “Well, what this pastor has done is to say no.” I’m going to turn it around and say, what this pastor did is say yes to God, yes to a higher authority. And that’s the core of this issue. Sooner we talk about authority and who is, and what is the higher authority, the sooner we get to a resolve that will be pleasing to God. So he said yes, not like some said, “He was a no-sayer.” I’m saying, “He said yes to God.”

Isaac Crockett:                  And that’s exactly what his point is that he was making, he said, “We’re the church.” The Greek word for church means a group. We’re an assembly, a called out group. If we’re not assembling, how are we in assembly? Gary, you’re in Pennsylvania. But what if the Lord called you to pastor a church in California? Would you do something similar to what they’re doing there?

Gary Dull:                           Well, certainly I think that what he has done is appropriate both as it relates to the word of God, as well as it relates to our constitution. In the word of God, in Hebrews chapter 10 verse 25, it says, “Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together as the manner of some is, but exhorting one another and so much the more as you see the day approaching.” One of the things that we need to understand about the church is that the church is called by God to be together and not to be separate. In other words, what does that mean? It means that they are to be meeting together. And so when John MacArthur, and his elders, and group led the church to make this decision, as it related to the governor, I think they were making the right decision from the biblical perspective.

                                             The other thing is we have our constitution. And the first amendment says, “Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” And it goes on. And I think that, perhaps I would be corrected on that, but I would think that that would be something that would even relate to a church in California. The government has no right or responsibility to make any type of a decision that would prohibit the church from functioning as God would have it to function, as I understand that.And so I believe that what they have done is right, biblically and constitutionally, based upon Acts chapter five and verse 29, where it says, “We ought to obey God rather than men.”

Isaac Crockett:                  It’s interesting, because they do talk about the first amendment and they say, not only John MacArthur’s point was, “It’s not because the first amendment gives us that right, but it’s because the first amendment is based on the Bible, it’s from God that we have this authority, not from the first amendment. But the first amendment gives it to us because it’s following the Bible, which is what we’re saying here? Well, real quickly. So now that this is happening more churches, especially some of these larger churches are, finally after months of being shut down, opening up again, some people are just melting down over it. Some are upset. Some don’t know what to think. But there’s a lot of comparisons going on. And so some people were saying, “Hey, if in California, you’re allowed to go to marijuana dispensaries, you’re allowed to go to casinos. You’re allowed to go to Walmart. Why can’t we go to church? Let’s just do this.”

                                             And then of course, people pointing to these protests and say, “Hey, hundreds of people getting together to protest. That’s allowed here in Pennsylvania, where some of you are, Governor Wolf was marching with the protestors in Michigan. Some of our listeners know, remember Governor Gretchen Whitmer, Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi, Mayor Bill de Blasio, all of these have taken part in protests even during this time where they’re supposed to be socially distant.

                                             But Sam, we remember a few weeks ago, we had David Benham, a Christian man on the program who was arrested in Charlotte, North Carolina. He wasn’t cursing police. He wasn’t violently attacking citizens. He wasn’t defacing property. His crime was that he was gathered legally with a group of under 10 people, socially distanced, offering hope, help, and resources to ladies that were going inside an abortion clinic there in the Charlotte area. We just have a couple of moments here, but, Sam, is that hypocrisy that they come after Christians and allow the protesters to do what they want?

Sam Rohrer:                      Well, Isaac, it is hypocrisy, but I’m going to put in terms of legal terms, it’s injustice. Now, again, we’re talking about actions that are in confrontation with civil government. Civil government responsibility to enact justice, support and protect those who keep the law, bring to justice, punish, do what’s necessary those who break the law and the breaking and the making, those who uphold the law as our declaration revolves around life, the protection of life, which is what Benham was down there talking about, defending life. But it’s also then persons and property.

                                             So when justice system protects those who are in the street destroying property and or lives, and then harming those who, like a venom, is standing there to protect life, then what you’re witnessing, not just hypocrisy, it [inaudible 00:07:30] hypocrisy, but you’re witnessing injustice, a complete subverting and turning over upside down of the purpose of government. That’s what’s really at stake here.

Isaac Crockett:                  Well, that is a lot at stake. That’s something very major at stake. We want to talk about that when we come back. We want to ask some questions. Are some of our Christian leaders, are they just crying wolf and there’s really not a big deal? Or is there something big going on? Sam, it sounds like you’re saying there’s a lot at stake. So please don’t go away. We’re going to take a quick time out. We’ll be right back.


                                             Well, welcome back to the program. I’m Isaac Crockett joined by Sam Rohrer, Gary Dull. And we’re talking about some of the things that are at stake if Christians don’t say no to what being forced on us, or as Sam said, really, it’s a matter of us saying yes to what God tells us to do. Whether it’s a pastor saying, “I need my church to be an assembly.” And it doesn’t all have to look exactly the same, and I know each community is going to have the different ways in which they do these things, but we still need to be God’s church.

                                             And so we have people now going back to church, more and more pastors saying, “After five months or whatever it’s been, we’re going back to church. We’re going to open our doors again. We’re going to get back together.” And there are many, even within the evangelical community who are split on this, some of you listening are split on this. Some of you are not, do you know what you believe about it, and you’re saying, “This is good. This is right. This is what we need to do.” But you have friends and family who are questioning you. Maybe you go to a church like that and they’re questioning you. And I think one of the things that we say is, “Well, look, all of a sudden when the protests started, those were allowed.” You have all these governors and mayors joining in on these protests.

                                             And obviously it’s become very tragic as it’s turned into, in many cases, a lot of violence, and riots, and hurting the very people that they were supposed to be protesting for. But Gary, we as pastors, a lot of times say, “Look, if protesters are allowed,” First it was, “Well, if you’re allowed to go to Walmart or you’re allowed to go to the liquor store, shouldn’t you be allowed to come to church?” But now we can even say, “Look, the protesters are allowed. If governors are allowing that, why won’t they allow church?” And many will say, “Ah, ah, ah, well, there’s a big difference because you see the protests or outside. The church services, you want to meet inside.

                                             But I’m old enough to remember a time where pastors were being arrested by police. Church members were being cited, given fines, and parking lots were being forcibly closed as churches tried to hold outdoor parking lot services, even for Easter Sunday. Now I’m not saying that all municipalities were doing that or that all churches had that happen. But it was happening to a number of churches. Gary, I don’t know if you’re old enough to remember those good old days either, but what are your thoughts about when churches did open just for outdoor parking lot services and many were still targeted?

Gary Dull:                           Well, first of all, if you remember it, Isaac, I’m sure I do as well, because I’m about twice your age, my friend. But, so I do remember some of those things, but let me just tell you this. I spent a night in jail once years ago. Did I ever tell you that? Did you know that Isaac?

Isaac Crockett:                  I don’t think I knew that that changes everything I think about you now, Gary.

Gary Dull:                           It sure does. And the reason why I did is because I was holding an outdoor preaching service without a permit. And because of that, to make a long story short, I just spent a night in the jail house because of the fact that I could not get anybody from the college where I was attending to confirm the fact that I was a student there. So that’s a long story short. But what happened was that I was preaching without a permit and did not know that I needed a permit, and could not get anybody to confirm me, that I was a valid student at that college. And so I spent the night there in that jail house in Annapolis, Maryland. When it comes down to it as churches, we need to make sure that we do obey common and just ordinances. They should abide by both the church, as well as protestors.

                                             Now there’s a big difference between a protest and a church service. And I think it’s very important for us as Christians and particularly pastors and spiritual leaders that make certain that we are the ones who set what the definitions are. I was told that by David many, many years ago. Sometimes the government itself tries to give us definitions to live by. When it really comes down to biblical truth and the practice of the local church, we are the ones who are to make the definitions based upon biblical truth.

                                             And so if you have a situation where there is a common or just ordinance that says, “Because where a certain area is located, there should be no outdoor meetings.” I think that churches ought to comply. But also I think that same situation should be the case for anybody who wants to do an outdoor protest. However, if you’ve got a situation where somebody is allowed to be outside and protesting, they’re given permission and the church is not given permission, then you’ve got an issue. And once again, you may be back to the Acts chapter five and verse 29 passage where you’ve got to work through that from both the biblical and the legal perspective.

Isaac Crockett:                  Very good point, Gary. Sam, some are saying, “Hey, you guys, you conservatives, you Christians, you pastors.” Even some pastors saying to the pastors who are reopening, “You guys are acting like these orders to shut down like it’s some kind of persecution. You’re being pretentious and thinking you’re martyrs right now for this. And this isn’t really persecution. Things aren’t that bad right now. Just wait, they’ll get worse. Look at communist China, or Iran, or what’s going on even in places like Russia.” Is it true? Are we facing persecution or is it even necessary to say that we’re facing persecution to oppose tyranny? Because they know you’ve spoken a lot about this and you just had a program about what we do to oppose tyranny? Are we in a situation now, can this be considered persecution? And even if it’s not considered persecution, is there tyranny involved that needs to be opposed by godly Christians?

Sam Rohrer:                      Well, Isaac, when, for instance, the Supreme Court ruling on Friday regarding the Calvary Chapel Dayton Valley in Nevada against the Governor Sisolak of Nevada, that said that churches could only have 50 people in them, but the Caesar’s Palace could have 90 people in them. And the Supreme Court ruled that Caesar’s Palace could be open, but that the church had to be closed, that is both injustice before the law as interpreted by law because law is not being interpreted, equally applied to all. That’s what justice is. And that’s what Gary was just talking about. I’m going to put it in that terms. That’s justice. The law identified, applied equally to all that’s justice.

                                             So what the Supreme court did is enact injustice. Taking the law, applying it, not equally because though it was a church and one is a casino in a secular stand, you could easily say that that is equivalent to persecution. All right? So it may not have started as persecution, but effectively, that’s the effect of it. Isaac, really, the important thing I think in what I’ve been speaking on in Sunday, I preached three sermon at an area church and I dwelled on this issue. It’s very, very important, I think, for God’s people to understand that the key question to ask is whose authority is behind. In other words, if a directive is made, we’re living here in COVID times, directives are being made. The question be asked, “What is the authority?”

                                             Because all the things we’re talking about right now are not the law. They are directives out of the executive branches of our various states, or the mayors on the local level, or whatever. They are executive branch, which has no authority to make law. And the Supreme Court, which made a law by that ruling relative to Nevada, the Supreme Court has no authority to make law. That’s reserved for the legislative branch. And there is no law in any of these states. There’s no law that says that churches can or cannot worship and how many it can be in a cannot be in. And there is no law that even talks about face mask and so forth else. They’re coming as an example. Under all of this broad policies that are coming down on us, they’re coming from the executive branch. The question is, what is the authority? Does the authority exist in the executive branch to make what is in effect law that affects people’s lives as if it was the law? And the answer is no, they don’t. And that’s what gives rise to the meaning of the definition of tyranny.

                                             And so that is where we must go. And the question must be asked regularly, wherever if someone’s listening across this country, relative to an order by the governor, or the mayor, or whoever else that you must stop doing what the constitution says you can do: freedom of assembly, freedom of worship, freedom effectively to go out and get a job and hold a job. All of those kind of things fall more broadly under the category, what is the law? Is it in law? Did the legislature pass a law? Or are you attempting to make an order that looks like law? And if that’s the case, which these things are, then the executive branch has overreached their legislative authority, and by so doing, they have violated the moral underpinning of the law. And that’s the real discussion that really needs to get on the platform and the stage across this country.

Isaac Crockett:                  Gary, real quickly, here. Sam just described the injustice that’s going forth. What do you say to people? How do we deal with that injustice? How do we take a stand against that when we see it?

Gary Dull:                           Well, first of all, I think that we need to understand, and I agree 100% with what Sam said. One of the things that we need to understand is whether you are looking at the executive, or the legislative, or the judicial branch of government. Government has the responsibility to represent God’s law. You read that down through Romans chapter 13, and particularly in verse three, it says that the rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. And then you continue to read down through there, you see that those in government are actually ministers of God.

                                             And so every person in government, whatever level it is, that individual or that branch of government has the responsibility to uphold good law, ultimately God’s law, because our constitution is based upon biblical law, as far as I can understand, and as far as I’m convinced of that. And so when it comes to a situation where you have any type of a governmental individual or body that is violating God’s law, then we as Christians must, in a humble way, being ready and willing to pay whatever the consequences may be, we must take the stand for biblical law and biblical truth.

Isaac Crockett:                  Well, that’s true. The name of our program is Stand in the Gap, so we want to take a stand for truth. When we come back from this brief time out, I want to ask Sam and Gary about how do we take a stand for truth? And then, this time of pandemic, if we open our doors and our churches, for example, how do we also show love to those who are most vulnerable? So you don’t want to go away. We’ll be right back on, Stand in the Gap today.

Isaac Crockett:                  Well, welcome back to the program today. We’ve been talking about what happens when Christians say no, saying no to maybe governors or others who are trying to order them to close their doors or order them to do things differently than what they’re convicted and convinced God wants them to do. And Sam pointed out, it’s actually saying yes, maybe to God’s way, but no to some of the authorities in the government who might be pushing this.

                                             Well, I’m Isaac Crockett. I’m joined by Sam Rohrer and Gary Dull. We’ve been having a very good discussion asking the two of them, asking Sam and Gary, putting them on the hot seat and asking them the difficult questions that maybe some of you are thinking, or maybe some of you have been asked these same questions either on social media or by friends or family members. And I hope you’re enjoying this. And I want to thank you for tuning in. And if you’re just now tuning in whether online or on a radio station, however you’re listening, thank you for listening and making us a part of your life today.

                                             And I would like to invite you to listen to all of our programs, whether it’s our Stand in the Gap Minutes or Stand in the Gap TV, Stand in the Gap Weekend, all kinds of information, all kinds of resources for you. You can find more at, You can get our smartphone app if you don’t already have it, or you can start using it. If you’ve downloaded it, maybe you need to remember to use it. You can follow us on social media sites where you can get a lot of good information ahead of time, as well as a good way to share it with other people and let others know what you’re learning here through our Stand in the Gap radio program, or Stand in the Gap today, again, as well as our TV weekend, all these other things we have out there for you.

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                                             Well, not that long ago, it was at the end of March, we had a friend of ours on the program, Jerry Thacker. Jerry and his family have been with HIV for over 30 years. And Jerry had just lost his younger brother back then in March to COVID-19. They were at the beginning of the pandemic that was hitting us. And in talking with Jerry, it’s very clear that in some of our churches, Christians are not really sure how to respond to someone who is suffering, particularly if it might be a terminal illness, or a virus, or something like that. And he spoke about how his wife was not able to fellowship, oftentimes, because she had to socially distance herself. She had to protect herself because her immune system was compromised. And especially back in the ’80s and ’90s, a lot of people didn’t know much about it, but they heard the word, they heard about AIDS or HIV and they didn’t know what to do. And they didn’t know how to respond.

                                             I remember even in my own family, my dad was a pastor. And when he was dealing with terminal cancer, there were many well meaning people who didn’t understand what he needed at that time. And they wanted to stop in and talk to him. And many times he was too weak. Many times he needed his rest and he didn’t really need them there. Or sometimes his immune system was low and didn’t really need to be around other people. And people sometimes were offended if he wasn’t made available. And I have other family members who have more recently gone through cancer and different things, and sometimes people might question, “Well, why aren’t you coming to church when you were in recovery?” And they didn’t understand the need.

                                             In those cases, maybe they socially distanced themselves. And there are some Christians at this time right now in the church who feel that those churches that are regathering, churches who are assembling together to worship, and preach, and grow as a community together, they might feel that they’re being neglected if they have loved ones who are sick. Here’s a tweet from a pastor who, his wife died of leukemia, and he was thinking of the immunocompromised people. He said this, he said, quote, “Honestly, everything has been terrible for people who have cared for immunocompromised people. Enjoy your power trip or whatever. You show your true face.” End of quote.

                                             Here’s another Christian mom, again on the subject of churches that were going ahead and getting together. And she says this, she says, quote, “My six year old son is medically fragile, feeding tube-dependent, et cetera. Today I cried mostly over American Christianity and its response to families like ours. It’s never been stellar, but I never imagined it could get worse. We love Jesus and the church, which is why this hurts.” End of quote. And I could read more posts by Christians who are accusing other Christians who aren’t using mask or who are we gathering, of things even saying, “Well, you’re not really pro-life if you’re not wearing a mask.” Or, “You’re committing murder of the helpless when you allow your congregation to get back together.” Sam, let’s go to you first on this. How do you respond to those folks? Maybe brothers and sisters in Christ, maybe in our own churches who have strong feelings differently than what you’ve expressed on this program. They’re in Christ, but they see this matter totally different than you do.

Sam Rohrer:                      Well, that’s where we, again, come back to the concept, Isaac, that does the word of God speak to all the issues of life? We say, “Yes, it does.” All right. Well, if it does, then we say, “Well, what guidance does scripture give us?” Well, the scripture talked to us about the necessity of having compassion for those who are poor, and indefensible, and so forth. The answer is 1000%. Where do we get that from? Because God had compassion on us and sent his son Jesus Christ to die for our sins. We didn’t deserve any of it. So compassion, frankly, doesn’t exist outside Christianity. It just doesn’t. It doesn’t exist in Marxism. Compassion doesn’t exist in Islam, compassion and concern for the poor comes right off the pages of scripture and the words of Christ. So compassion is key, but what does also scripture tell us?

                                             Well, before Jesus manifested his compassion, God established the law, and the law governs. And there is no discrimination on the law. The law applies to all. If you sin, if you kill, you’ve committed a sin. God establishes a law. And we know that the word of God is the truth. God is the truth. And from that comes God’s justice, justice and the law. It does not favor color or position in life. And can I put it this way? When it comes to the law and justice properly perceived, like in our country, you go down to the Supreme Court, you will find carvings on the wall. And it’s a Lady Justice sitting there with a balance in her hands and her eyes are covered. Are they not? And that means that the application of truth, compassion, when it comes to the enforcement of truth and laying it out is not a part of what it is. It comes later in the process.

                                             As one person said, “Facts have no feelings.” Facts don’t have any feelings. The truth is the truth. So we have to make sure that as we approach all that’s taking place that not driven by compassion and feelings, which are in the eyes of the beholder many times. They are driven first by what is the truth? What is the law? And what I said and asked the question, what is the authority? Because if what is impacting our lives, that cause us to have these disagreements, if we’re not being driven by truth, what does the Bible say? Or what is the truth, the law? What does the constitution say, governing what we do?

                                             If we do not go there, what is the real truth about what we know even about the treatment, the elements of this virus? There are entire elements of normal medical protocol that are being thrown out the window, completely thrown out the window. Now that should concern and everybody. And so I’m say link to the truth, identify the law, and let that drive our decisions, not feeling drive our decisions. And right now policies are being made because in the Western world, Isaac and Gary, our major thing, concern is safety. You go to the Eastern world, their major driving aspect is honor. We, for Americans in the Western world, we’ve come to think safety is the highest of priorities. Frankly, it’s not. Truth should be the highest of our priorities and that should drive our policies. Not our policies driving our interpretation of the truth.

Isaac Crockett:                  All right, Gary, what about you? Most pastors have people from different perspectives in their churches. Some are saying, “Oh, you can’t open. This is way too soon.” Some are saying, “Well, why haven’t … You should have opened long ago. You should be more open.” Two different extremes sometimes. How do you, maybe as a pastor, how do our listeners who have friends on both sides of this? How do they respond to those two different sections?

Gary Dull:                           That’s a very good question. And I think it’s a question that really needs to be dealt with very, very clearly. A couple of things to take into consideration. First of all, let us remember what the church is. And we talked about that in the previous segment, but I want to bring it up again. The church, first and foremost, according to the word of God is designed by Christ to be together. That’s why Hebrews 10:25 says, “Do not forsake the assembling of ourselves together as the manner of some is.” And I think that a pastor and church leaders, as well as the individual members must do everything that they possibly can to see that the church does gather together.

                                             Now, when it comes to the idea of wearing masks, that is a part of the question here. I think one’s opinion regarding the mask must be governed by Romans chapter 15 verses one and two, where it says, “We then that are strong enough to bear the infirmities of the weak and not to please ourselves, let every one of us please his neighbor for his good edification.” The same thing is brought out in First Corinthians chapter eight, that we are not to do anything that is going to cause our brother to offend.

                                             And so I may, for instance, say that, “Well, I don’t feel like I should be wearing a mask based upon the truth, the facts that I understand about what that mask does or does not do.” but I should not try to personally lord that over somebody else if they want to wear that particular mask. And I don’t know if I’ve answered your question, but if not, we can deal with it a little bit later on, too.

Isaac Crockett:                  Yeah. That helps a lot when we can, when we come back. But when we do come back, we’re going to also want to take some time to pray for our nation to think about these situations, what it means in our churches, what it means for our nation. And when we come back, I also want to think about this quote, “Elections have consequences.” And we’re less than 100 days away from election. We’ll be right back to talk about this and our last …


                                             Well, welcome back to our last segment of our program today. I’m Isaac Crockett joined by Sam Rohrer and Gary Dull. And as we are closing our last one, Gary was saying as a pastor and all of you as Christians listening, any of you who go to church or whatever you’re involved with, you’ll have friends on different sides of this debate, whether it be about a mask or whether your church should be open yet or not. And Gary was suggesting that we need to be careful that we allow personal soul liberty. And we don’t know the situation for each person. And I think we have to be careful how we judge, if someone is saying, “Hey, I can’t come to church. I’m immunocompromised.” whatever, that we don’t judge them for that and vice versa.

                                             But Sam, I do want to go with you and just ask, and I know that we’ve talked on this program before some about some of the science behind masks and there’s people saying, “You should.” Some saying, “You shouldn’t.” Some saying, “Maybe in between.” But what about even just being quote unquote, forced to wear a mask, whether it’s a store, a chain or a local store that says, “Hey, no shirt, no shoes, no mask, no service.” Or whether it’s the mayor of Washington, D.C. saying, “You have to have a mask anytime you’re in public. Even if it’s outside.” Is there a difference between those?

Sam Rohrer:                      There is. And again, it goes back to the issue of, in trying to speak about, to hear the matter of authority. If government mandates and that’s not law, but a directive out of an executive branch, then it’s not law and it’s not legitimately enforcable under the law. That’s why across this country, sheriffs, many state police, local law enforcement, Pennsylvania, here, there are many DA’s, and sheriffs, and judges themselves who have said they won’t even consider a case. They’re not going to arrest anybody. And they’re not going to take them to jail. And the DA’s are not going to prosecute anything relative to a mask. Why is that? Because ultimately, if they were to go before the judge, they have to cite the law, right?

                                             But there is no law to cite because it’s a directive out of an executive branch, was not the law. So that’s one part of the equation. The other is if a private business says, “I’m not going to let you in my store, unless you have all these things.” Well, it is the right of that local, private entity to do that. Now, if they’re asking people to do things that people don’t want to do, then people have the ability to say, “Well, I’m not going to shop here anymore.” And that is the right. And if that business or retail says, “I don’t care if all my customers go down the road to someone who does not have this imposition.” That’s why some of these retailers that imposed in the case of the mask mandate are already backing off of it. Because people are saying, “I’m not going to shop there anymore.”

                                             So now, if government is trying to tell the retailers, which, in some cases they are, “We’re going to tamper with your business license.” Or, “We’re going to threaten or intimidate you unless you impose this and actually become the law maker and the policeman to do our job for us.” If that intimidation is going on, then in fact you have another legal problem that’s happening and so forth. It depends on how it is being done and who, but these are the kind of things that if they’re brought back to what is the law and what is the authority, it tends to, uncomplicate a great deal what’s being done.

Isaac Crockett:                  Well, thank you, Sam and Gary, you both have answered some tough questions for us. And I think as we come to the end, here, to pray, it reminds us all the more of how much we need to be praying for all of our authorities, in our homes, and our churches, and our schools, and our communities, in our county, and state, nation. And it’s so important who we have in our midst as our authorities. And I was reading a book recently by Jordan Sekulow and some other authors. And one of the things that they kept driving home was this idea that elections have consequences, whether it’s a local election or a national election, it will have consequences.

                                             And we are, I don’t know, Sam and Gary, if you’ve already maybe mentioned this, but we’re less than 100 days away from November 3rd, from election day. And I don’t know what all is going to happen in these next, less than 100 days between now and the election. And I can’t imagine what might happen, but I do know that we’re going to need to be praying for our nation every day, but especially on these Tuesdays, the 52 Tuesdays of prayer that Sam, you’ve started here on Stand in the Gap. We want to just pray for our nation. So Gary, I’ll ask you if you would lead us in prayer now, and then Sam, and both of you have any passages you’d like to share or comments to make as you go to the Lord in prayer, we would much appreciate that at this time.

Gary Dull:                           Thank you, Isaac. Yeah, let’s pray. Father in heaven as we come to you today, we thank you for this opportunity that we do have to pray, and for the way that we are able to see you effectively work in our lives. And we know, Lord, there is a lot of division in America today. A lot of that division is political. A lot of it is what we might call religious. And even as we were talking today about whether or not we should wear masks or whether or not we should go to church, there are a lot of good believers who have different opinions on these things. But I do pray that you’ll give those of us who are born again believers, the strength to do what your Word tells us in the book of Ephesians chapter four, to endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

                                             Father, use us in every capacity that you can, in every situation that you can, to be peace makers, rather than peace breakers from the biblical perspective. And then Lord, as we anticipate this upcoming election, we do know that it’s a serious election. I pray right now, Father, that you will begin to reveal to all of us what candidates are going to be standing on biblical principles, from the President right down to the lower offices. Lord, give us insight so that we can vote and have the courage and the boldness to vote for that which is biblically correct that will glorify you, and we’ll thank you for it. In Jesus’ name, I pray.

Isaac Crockett:                  Amen. Sam?

Sam Rohrer:                      And Heavenly Father, we continue in prayer as Isaac, and Gary, and I are considering and discussing things that are of great importance to our people in this nation. Lord, we’ve talked about things that really impact the way we live and we’re dealing under policies that affect the way we work, and if we work, and how we go to church, and what we can do when we go to church and, and a host of things, Lord, that are not the kinds of things that normally have presented us in this nation, a nation having been founded on the law which has been consistent with your biblical principles.

                                             Lord, I pray that all of us would seek your wisdom, would pursue your truth, and would be driven not by what a deceptive media is so intent on making us feel, and driving us into the arms of fear and panic. But we know as God’s people, we are not to be driven by fear, but by power, and love, and of a sound mind. We pray that we would just anchor ourself in truth, we would consider what we are hearing, the places and sources from which it are coming and filter all through the solid foundation of biblical truth. And because these things are in the civil realm of where we are, what the constitution says, we thank you that we have both of these as anchor points in this nation for us to take, and compare, and to consider against, recognizing that our Christian brothers and sisters who are in places like China right now have no piece of civil law to which they can go. So Lord, we have freedom here, help us to exercise what is here with wisdom and with great care. We pray in Jesus’ name. Amen.

Isaac Crockett:                  Amen. Oh Lord, unto you, you are the only one able to keep us from falling and from destroying the name of Jesus Christ that we proclaim. And unto you, we now, we give you praise for your presence and your glory. We have exceeding joy in what you have done and will do to you, the only wise God, our savior be glory, majesty, dominion, power both now and forever. Amen. Well, thank you for listening. Thanks so much for tuning in. I ask you to tune in again tomorrow and until then, please continue to Stand in the Gap for the Lord wherever you are.