This transcript is from the Stand in the Gap Today program originally aired on July 23, 2020. To listen to the program, click HERE.

Sam Rohrer:                      Well, hello and welcome to Stand in the Gap Today. I’m Sam Rohrer and I’m going to be joined today by pastor Joe Green, and he’s going to be in the cohost seat. Then together, we are ready to get going in this program. Stay tuned because we have a lot of tremendous information to share today on the program. As you know, if you listen to it with any regularity, we talk a lot about the enormous cultural changes that are taking place in this nation.

                                             We’ve highlighted in many ways, how what was once commonly accepted as a cultural norm in our nation have changed. For instance, husbands loving their wives and children with intact families. That’s just one because it’s not really that way now. The concept that truth actually exists and does not change where as an example, all life is sacred, whether that life is still in the womb or on one’s death bed by an elderly person, whether black or white, or any color or background, life is valued and sacred to all. Here’s another, honesty valued and manifested even by a shake of the hand as a binding contract, that’s something. How about where loyalty and fidelity is a virtue, and where duty, and responsibility, and patriotism is noble, and where a fear of God as creator and judge is foundational to understanding justice and freedom, and the basis for all authority and government.

                                             See, those all that I just said that were once the cultural norm, but in the last generation, a lot has changed in America and the Western world. Education, science, politics, history, and even theology has been targeted for change, and the agents of change have been remarkably successful. Just look around. To demonstrate that this change has happened is sadly very easy to do, and for those of us old enough to compare life of the current, to the life of the past, we can see that. Yet, there’s an entire generation out there who only knows what’s been changed. And even the older generation, most of those that I’m speaking to right now, probably listening to the program, probably cannot really explain how the ground has shifted in their lifetime, and are therefore not able to identify the strategies of the enemy of the truth and know what to do about it.

                                             So to describe simply how this change has been done and who has been the driving force behind it is important. How we’re voluntarily marching into slavery is essential to understand. Even more importantly though, is the why. Why has there been such an attack on America and the Western Judeo-Christian worldview? That’s the real story. Today, we’ll expose all of these in simple terms.

                                             Our theme for today’s program is this: the deceit of political correctness, how Marxism is collapsing America. Our special guest today on Stand in the Gap Today is Dr. Marlene McMillan. She’s the author of many books, but one in particular is entitled, Mountains of Deceit: How the Dialectic Process has Infected the Culture. Dr. McMillan is an international speaker, often referred to as the Lady of Liberty and Forgiveness. She has a website at And with that, let me welcome to the program right now, Dr. Marlene McMillan.

Marlene McMilla…:         Well, thank you for having me. I’m looking forward to our time together. Thank you.

Sam Rohrer:                      You are quite welcome. We’ve got a big subject to cover in this hour, and I want to get right into it, Marlene. I’m going to dispense with the doctor part of it at this point, just so we use our words carefully and move forward, but we’re committed to giving our listeners here, you and I and Joe, a condensed understanding of a complex strategy. We want to get right into it. You’ve written your book, Mountains of Deceit: How the Dialectic Process has Infected the Culture. So, let’s start here. In the next segment, we’re going to identify the who, the why and the how, but defining terms is essential. We try to do that regularly on this program, because we say if you don’t define the terms, you’ll lose the debate. Let’s start here before you define the terms of the Hegelian dialectic, why is establishing the definition or defining terms so critically important as we engage any consideration of impact on culture?

Marlene McMilla…:         Okay. Well first of all, you cannot think past your vocabulary. The way you think frames the way you see the world, and the way you see the world is determined by how those terms are defined. So the social engineers that want to move us from a belief in absolute truth to making relativism and their goals of a new world order to bring those to fruition, they have to change the way the people think and consider even changing what is normal. So when something is normal, you don’t even question it. If it’s normal, well, it’s just the way it is. If our language and our definitions can be changed to a new normal, you’ll hear that term, then that new normal is not even questioned. So we can move from liberty to tyranny, and the people just go along with it because it’s all done with… Instead of a sleight of hand, if you go to a magic show and you ever find out what the magician did to trick you, it’s no fun anymore. Well, this is a sleight of mind, and we are trying to explain to people how the trick is done, because it’s the same process used over and over and again, and it empowers our listeners. Once everyone knows how the trick is played, you’re no longer prey and subject to being deceived, thereby.

Sam Rohrer:                      Excellent. Joe?

Joe Green:                          Cool. That’s awesome. Dr. McMillan, we hear in the popular culture now, the word political correctness used a lot, and we know it’s being used to shape public opinion. Can you define political correctness and how this connects to the Hegelian dialectic process?

Marlene McMilla…:         Yes. Okay. So political correctness, how do you know it’s deceit? Is because it’s constantly changing. So political correctness is another way of explaining the use of this dialectic process by social engineers. Now that means engineering… Does engineering just happen? No, engineering is planned. So by definition, the social engineers are telling us that they want to remake the society into a form of socialism, and now people are kind of positive towards socialism, where in the past, that in itself would have been enough to have stopped it. So political correctness is a way to get you to speak in a method, or using definitions that will lead you to believe that socialism and is good, that the world is based on relativism, that there is no absolute truth. All of those false premises that bring confusion, and that brings tyranny.

Sam Rohrer:                      Dr. McMillan, we did not get you to define the actual phrase, Hegelian dialectic, but you talked about political correctness as a piece of that. When we come back and we get into the who, the why, and the how, I am going to ask you that question. Ladies and gentlemen, stay tuned. We’ll get the definition now of Hegelian dialectic, and then we’ll go into who, and why, and how. I’m Sam Rohrer. Joe Green is my cohost today. Our special guest, Dr. Marlene McMillan.

                                             Welcome back to Stand in the Gap Today. I’m Sam Rohrer, accompanied by pastor Joe Green and our special guest, Dr. Marlene McMillan. She’s the author of the book, Mountains of Deceit: How the Dialectic Process has Infected the Culture. She has a website,, and our theme for today, very, very critical. I hope that you’re listening and get your pen out and write down notes because there’s a lot that’s going to be shared and has been already. But our theme is this: the deceit of political correctness, how Marxism is collapsing America. The last segment, our special guest gave a very brief definition of political correctness. She said it was basically this, a way to speak using terms where socialism and accepting a socialistic worldview is good. She also said this. I thought it was great. How can you recognize deceit? She said this. It’s whenever the narrative keeps changing. I like that, and that gets into some of what we’re going to talk about here next.

                                             Dr. McMillan, you didn’t get to define the phrase, Hegelian dialectic. Take just a short bit of time. Where’d that come from? What does that mean? What’s the real essence of the dialectic.

Marlene McMilla…:         Okay. So the dialectic process, dialectic means two words. It creates a conflict or a contrast between two ideas, and then the process actually tells you that it’s steps. Now we go back to Hegel and talk about him, but the current way the dielectric process is used is getting people to move from a belief in absolute truth to a belief in relativism. It’s the steps that someone is taken through to move them from believing in absolute truth, and making them believe that all ideas are relative. Now the problem with that is that we can say that all ideas are relative, but all ideas have consequences. Since the consequences of those ideas are different, then that means the root ideas are also different. I can go through the steps as we progress.

Sam Rohrer:                      Okay. We absolutely will. Ladies and gentlemen, I will tell you that much of what we’re seeing right now in this culture, even with the entire COVID narrative, and so much of what it is, is exactly the application of this dialectic. Create a conflict and then present a pre-designed solution to move people. It’s been used for a long, long time. I can tell you it happens all the time in the political world. We see it in the media world, and we see it all across our culture. So bear that definition in mind as we go forward because whether discussion is about capitalism or socialism, Marlene has mentioned that, whether it be justice or social justice, rights or duties, right or wrong, morality as freedom or morality as improperly restricting our liberty, as some would say, the defining difference is really not.

                                             It’s not as simple as Democrat versus Republican, North or South, or East or West. It’s a matter of values and ideology from where we determine how things are defined. It’s about worldview. So in essence, a Judeo-Christian worldview, the underpinning of freedom, and liberty, and moral truth, and God as creator and judge that which brought about the United States and the Western world into prominence is on one side, but an atheistic or Islamic worldview that views the tenants of a Judeo-Christian worldview to be an enemy, their goal is driven by their respective worldviews. For them, life is not sacred because for them there is no God balanced with truth, and justice, and mercy, and love. Neither one of them.

                                             The Hegelian dialectic that Marlene just described. It’s not just a language, but it’s a methodology, and it springs from the worldview that there is no creator God, no ultimate judge of right or wrong, but instead man can be God, and the sole determiner of what’s right. The difference is enormous. And as Marlene just said, the consequences are enormous and can be life threatening. So let’s go into that now, Marlene, a bit deeper. We’ve taken a little bit longer at the beginning here, but I think all this needed to be set up. Very quickly, who… Put a face on it. Who would be the designer? You already mentioned Hegel’s, but go wherever you want to on that, and perhaps faces behind what you referred to as the mountains of deceit, perhaps here in 2020. Where are we seeing, and where’s this dialectic and methodology coming from?

Marlene McMilla…:         Okay. So real quick history, Hegel lived around the time of the founding of the United States. He was in Germany, and he lived from 1770 to 1830. His ideas of idealism kind of laid dormant until the early 1920s when the Frankfurt school was developed in Germany, and then those German professors, when they had to get out of Germany because of Nazism, they came because of John Dewey, to Columbia University, many of them, and they were strategically placed in colleges of education especially, across the United States. Then some of their followers would be Benjamin Bloom. Now Benjamin Bloom, we could do a whole program on, but Bloom was basically who every teacher… If you’re a trained teacher, you studied Bloom in college Bloom’s Taxonomy. Bloom’s goal was to develop a common worldwide structure of thought and language that would establish a one world religion, a one world government, a one world economy, and all of this without Jesus and the Bible.

                                             So then this dialectic process is the message to make this happen. The two key questions I want everybody to write down is: What do you think, and how does that make you feel? Now, most of our listeners have been asked those questions in a Bible study in church, thinking that that’s a normal way to do things, but the dialectic process make us think that our own thinking, our own reasoning, our way that seems right into a person, but in the end is the ways of death, that that has value, and that we’re to raise our human thinking almost equal with God. Then how does that make you feel deals with always letting your feelings dominate instead of truth and fact.

Joe Green:                          Those are great points. It sounds like what you were describing earlier, I would encourage the listeners, Sam and Dr. McMillan to check out Operation Paperclip, which is when they brought the scientists over here from Germany. But the question I have for you is I know our listeners are anxiously wanting to hear the how. How is it that we’re seeing what’s happening, and we’ll go there next, but we know the why behind statements, actions, or strategies. It helps to then predict the how, doesn’t it? When you say, why has the Hegelian dialectic been introduced and why is it being pursued as the Marxist methodology of choice to destroy America?

Marlene McMilla…:         Okay. Because it works every time. It is a proven system. Basically the idea… Let’s say in education, how was this done? Well, the education system in the United States was working so well that we had a 96% literacy rate. The Prussians, who wanted to bring in a form of a new world order, this is back in the 1800s, they had to create areas of discontent. So, the dialectic process always starts with identifying areas of discontent. Whether you live in the most prosperous nation in the world, you have more liberty than anybody else in the world, you still have to be made discontent. So in education, then we were told the system’s broken. We need to have it fixed. We’ve got this crisis. This crisis has to be respond to. We have to do something. Whenever new here, we have to do something and it has to be done now. You probably can be sure that you’re being processed in the dialectic. Then the-

Sam Rohrer:                      Yeah, Marlene, that is great. I’m going to say, when I was in the legislature, that is how things are passed. That’s how laws are passed, exactly the same way all the time. We’ve got to deal with this immediately. Hurry, get this passed. Don’t read the bill. We’ll worry about that later. Exactly what you’re talking about. Last minute, before we go into this break. A little bit on the how. I know you could go much deeper into the why, but let’s go to the how. How has the dialectic process been normalized, as you described at the beginning, become accepted into the American culture?

Marlene McMilla…:         For one thing, it’s come into the church. So when the church reinforces what the schools do, and 90% of Christians, at least up until recently, send their children to the government schools, and the Bloomian process of what do you think and how does that make you feel, is in every subject everywhere. So now, children don’t study about what actually happened. They study about what they think the people felt happened, or what they would feel if that happened to them. This does not create someone who can follow a logic chain or figure out how to solve the problem. If the goal is to make them more government dependent so that they lose that independence within themselves of solving a problem, or need we rely upon God himself, and come and let the government become the God.

Sam Rohrer:                      Ladies and gentlemen, I hope you heard very clearly what Marlene has just said, that dialectic we’re talking about, undercuts a standard of proof. It’s designed to move it from objective evaluation, thus sayeth the word of the Lord objective, regardless of how we feel, to how do we feel about it? Do we like what God said? Well, if we don’t, we can change it, and therefore we become God. That is Marxism. That is what we’re talking about. That in simple terms, if you understand that, you can grasp how this technique is transforming America. We come back, we’re going to illustrate how exactly that happened.

                                             Well, welcome back to Stand in the Gap Today. We’re glad that you’re with us. Today we’re now midpoint. This hour program, I don’t know about you, but for us it seems like it really goes by fast, and I think it does for those who are listening, at least that’s what we hear from.

                                             Yesterday, I shared just a brief comment from a first time listener. I’m going to read just a part of what she said again. She said, “Thank you for standing for the truth. I find stability in Stand in the Gap, unlike anything the world offers.” She said, “I’m a first time listener.” Here’s another one that came in today. Similar, slightly different. This is from a Pennsylvania listener here. Says, “Thank you for Stand in the Gap. I thank the Lord for you, that you are doing the hard work of keeping us informed and encouraging us in a closer walk with God. Thank you.” Well, thank you, Cindy, and that’s who sent that in. We appreciate that very much. I encourage all who were listening, again, communicate to us like these folks. They sent hard letters. You can do that. Our address is 83 West Main Street, Elverson, Pennsylvania. You can direct something to us there in hard form. You can go to our website,, or on our app. Just download, put in the phrase, stand in the gap. All of these programs are on archive form. You can communicate to us. You can partner with us, both in prayer and in finances.

                                             It’s also easier, then to take and forward the program to your friends. I know some days ago, I said, “Would you take up the challenge in forward the programs that means something to you to 25 or 30 of your friends?” Like us on Facebook, American Pastors Network, or Stand in the Gap radio, either of those. However you communicate, pass along the truth. These are days where truth is needed more than ever. And you know, as well as I do, truth is increasingly hard to find. Is it no? So pray for us that we can be in that spot, and you can help us?

                                             Well, we’re talking here, the theme, the deceit of political correctness, we defined it. How Marxism is collapsing America. The Hegelian dialectic, it’s where you pose a conflict, you create a conflict, and then you come in behind it with the solution already designed, a goal of moving people from a belief in absolute truth to a belief that there is no absolute truth, relative truth. You put it into perspective of governmental or cultural, it moves you from capitalism and a Judeo-Christian worldview where freedom is evident, to a Marxist or socialist worldview where you mean nothing except as an asset to the state, and they tell you what to do. That is where we are in America today, but we didn’t get here accidentally. So the effectiveness the George Hegel’s and the Marxist Hegelian dialectic, it’s without dispute. We’re talking about that. The attack against truth through the use of deception.

                                             Though, it did not start with Hegel. I’m going to put here and tie in biblically. It started with Satan who masqueraded as one of God’s most beautiful creations in the Garden of Eden. He came to Eve and he questioned God’s authority and justice of God, and Eve took the bait because the methodology of questioning God and what is true, and offering a greed based desire appealing to the unredeemed heart, and for Eve, she made a choice. For us, we automatically start out with a depraved heart, so it’s easy for us to fall for deception. But it worked with Eve, and it works with all mankind today who live with no fear of God. This methodology of deception, in my opinion, is part of the fulfillment of Christ words to his disciples in Matthew 24 regarding the end days, where the first evidence of the end days, Christ said, is deception. He said, don’t be deceived. The deception will be so strong that if it’s possible, even the very elect, those who have a relationship with God himself through Jesus Christ, might be deceived.

                                             So Marlene, let’s go right into that. I want you to illustrate now… You already referred to some educational things, but you may want to go to that next with Joe, but the family to me has been one area that’s been redefined. It used to be a traditional family, father, mother, children, but now family is almost like whatever you want it to be. Is the redefining of family, as an example, a technique, a strategy, a goal for the Hegelian dialectic that you could point to, and illustrate, and how it happened? Talk to us about that.

Marlene McMilla…:         Okay. So there is a language and method that leads to liberty, and a different language and method that leads to bondage and tyranny. The family is one of the building blocks of liberty. It’s the building block of the church. It’s the building block of culture. In order to break down the culture, one of the Marxist tactics is divide and conquer. So ,you see that everywhere you go. There’s all of this discussion about the rich versus the poor, the 1% versus the 99%. Those are different divisions. God has divisions between believers and unbelievers. He has divisions between those who are in covenant and those who are out. He has the divisions between the sheep and the goats. But what the dialectic goal is, is to get us to unite around a lie instead of around the truth. So when the family is redefined to be whatever you want it to be, then the truth of God’s word that lays out what a family is, and the sacredness of marriage.

                                             In the dialectic, nothing is sacred. Everything is relative, and all rights come from government. So your right to have a marriage comes from civil government, instead of seeing the sacredness of marriage and the idea that the home is a government and there’s individual self-government. That’s where character is built, and all of these things that are necessary to further people who will not become government dependent. So the family has to be destroyed, and has to be redefined because in the dialectic, you move from the thinking… The move from absolute truth, where there’s good and bad, right and wrong, truth in air, we call that the is and not language. Now, does everybody remember, or at least you’ve read about now, when Bill Clinton said, “Well, it all depends on what is his or who controls what is his. Who defines is?” Well, Yahweh has already defined is, and has already defined the family. So we have to question, what that really a family? Could a family be these other things? And then eventually after the questioning, then the new definitions that further this government dependency and this feelings where everything’s about my feelings and the world revolves around me, and then that creates an attitude of victim hood, and that victim hood results in dependency.

Joe Green:                          Wow, those are great points, Dr. McMillan. In your opinion, what would be perhaps another major area that’s targeted by the Marxists using the Hegelian dialectic that has changed America for the worse? Would you include education in that?

Marlene McMilla…:         Education is necessary in order to get people to accept the new normal. And so when… And I’m sorry to say now, that much of the Christian curriculum and the homeschool curriculum and all, is still using this Marxist methodology. So the issue is not the content. You can have biblical content, but if you use Marxist methodology in teaching that biblical content, your message will enforce or negate the content, meaning that they’ll either enforce a biblical worldview or they’ll negate a biblical worldview. So now we have pastors in the pulpit who have been educated to negate a biblical worldview. They may know a lot of scripture, but they practically can’t look at Marxism tyranny and all these things happening right before our very eyes, and identify it as Marxism, that’s a form of socialism, which is a nice word for communism, that really is just another word for slavery.

Sam Rohrer:                      Marlene, what you’re saying is very, very eye opening to many people. I got to ask you this question now, because when you talk about, I think I objectively know versus how do I feel the effective, for Christians, we know that we have emotions. Many would say that it’s appropriate that I am driven by some emotion because that’s a work of the Holy Spirit, and it is. So I want you to take and balance a little bit between the objective and what we know, with the appropriate emotion and feeling as compared to these dialectic socialist approach to feelings and the effective. Can you do that?

Marlene McMilla…:         Okay. That’s a great question. Now I’m going to put my mom hat on. I’m the homeschool mom of seven. I was homeschool pioneer, and I still… I just produced a how to raise a world changer for Christ. Not how to raise a little go along to get along child, but how to raise a world changer for Christ. One of the things that we have to learn is that our first domain of government is ourselves, and feelings are given by God. They’re wonderful, but they’re not to dominate. Our feelings are to come… Our soulishness is to come in subjection to Holy Spirit. So the standard of the word… The word of God sets a standard, and then as we mature, we still have great emotions and great joy, but our emotions are defined in the fruit of the spirit. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self control, against such there is no law. In the dialectic process, in order to bring chaos about, you have to-

Sam Rohrer:                      All right. I’m sorry, I’m going to interject. I want you to finish that when we come back, because this is such a powerful thought. We want to conclude that. Ladies and gentlemen stay with us, we’ll be back for the final segment. We’re going to do a reality check. We’re going to answer that question further, that we just posed, feelings versus the objective, how you put it in balance, and then we’re going to give you tools for a reality check.

                                             Well, we’re going to move into our final segment now, and it’s always great. I’m receiving text messages from listeners. Not everybody has my personal cell phone. I’m not giving it out publicly, but some do, and I’m hearing from many here today. It’s a great thing. I think it’s because of the applicability of this theme. We’re going to move into a reality check on this concept of the deceit of political correctness, how Marxism is collapsing America.

                                             We’ve identified the Marxist concept that’s referred to as the Hegelian dialectic, George Hegel’s Frankfurt school, Marxist generally goal to dethrone God, which is what they attempted to do, and they have very specific techniques in it. It’s all wrapped up in lies and deception to move people from a belief in a true and unchanging God, to a view that man is God. Not truth, but whatever you want it to be. For whose purpose is that? Well it’s for the devil’s purpose. That’s what he wants us to believe. It started with Eve, continues today. Goal is if people are dependent on themselves, they don’t need Jesus Christ, right? That’s exactly what the devil wants. That’s the goal. At the end of the day, it’s the souls of man that is at stake, but we suffer in the process. All through culture, any culture that does not recognize deception will embrace that which is behind it always ends up in bondage, and death, and slavery. We’re seeing that before our very eyes, here in America today. We better understand it. That’s why they were doing the program today.

                                             Dr. McMillan, you were concluding a comment there. I asked you a question about balancing emotion with objective measurement, truth. The effective is where the Marxist goal, the dialectic goes, is that’s not what we know to be true. It’s how you feel about it. You were balancing it. Wrap that up quickly. And then we want to go in how we can do some reality checks as both parents and those in authority, including the pastor and the pulpit. Go ahead, please.

Marlene McMilla…:         Okay. So feelings do not change the truth. I want to repeat that. Feelings do not change the truth. So part of the dialectic process in identifying areas of discontent is to get us “thinking” with our feelings, and then being willing to accept the predetermined conclusions that the change agents have already brought forward. So, tyranny is arbitrary and absolute. Tyranny is based on however we feel at the moment. A trained change agent, which is a person organization, institution, any… It could be more than one person that helps to change the beliefs, values, attitudes, or behavior of people without their knowledge or consent, comes right in and attaches to those new feelings, and then manipulates those feelings to get the person to accept tyranny in a way that they would have never accepted otherwise.

Sam Rohrer:                      Wow. We could go for a lot longer on that because that’s exactly what’s happening today, ladies and gentlemen, what Marlene was just talking about. I want to move now in and we need to do a reality check. Be listening here as we try and give some practical things. But, I want to put it in this perspective. When I think of reality check, and think of feelings versus objective measurement, anyone who’s listening to me right now, who’s ever worked in engineering, or manufacturing, or quality control of any type, even the weatherman, or the chef in the kitchen, or the politician in office, the judge behind the bench, the pastor behind the pulpit, any of them knows that he or she must regularly recalibrate their thinking, their statements, their evaluations, to some kind of a standard. We say it’s true standard. Now in the case of an engineer or a quality control person, think with me. Their instruments of measurement have to be re-calibrated, and they do, to what? To some standard. The weatherman must make sure that the thermometer is calibrated, otherwise he gives the wrong temperature, right? The chef in the kitchen, the measuring cup, the oven temperature, you’ve got to make sure they haven’t changed or disaster or disappointment at the least, will result.

                                             But, that’s just like life. The question is, when we were bombarded on all of these sides, the media and all sides, how do we do a reality check? So Marlene, go here quickly. When we find herself in the midst of deception, a changing narrative, which is what you said, you see a changing narrative, you know it’s deception. What would you say is a recipe for our listeners, the average person, a look in the mirror reality check? Start with parents and grandparents, perhaps. What would you recommend?

Marlene McMilla…:         Well, we have to come back to, are we operating from a position of truth? Are we teaching cause to effect? Are we dealing with good character? All of these things bring us back to a result that will either lead to liberty or away from it. Now, I do a webinar on Wednesday nights that is this kind of reality check. We have people who call it their sanity check for the week. It’s for leaders of leaders, and we deal with modeling and teaching deeply how the dialectic process applies to law, government, history, economics, and education. We hit all those subjects from different angles.

                                             Besides the Mountains of Deceit book, I also have a book called Five Pillars of Liberty, and it’s really a biblical worldview check sheet, and it teaches a person to think from principle. That’s what you come back to. Every time something comes up, “Oh, well what are my operating premises? Have I played in and accepted the premises of the world?” Even think about the social distancing thing. A lot of it is to make us distrust each other. It’s the make us… These wonderful little conversations we would have while we’re waiting in line at a store and were just friendly and kind to each other? Well, it makes us fear people. It makes us suspect them. It’s setting us up to have a distance from other people, instead of seeing them as human beings with human dignity, given to them by God. Dignity doesn’t come from the government. Dignity is inherent. It’s within you from God himself, and so it’s to change the way we see the world.

Sam Rohrer:                      And indeed it is. Boy, we’re just running out of time. Joe, I want to go to you. I wanted to ask you to pray, but I also want to ask you, because you have familiarity with this concept. I know you’ve thought about this a lot. As a pastor in the pulpit, what do you do to recalibrate your thinking, to make sure that you are not standing up and preaching some kind of error? What do you do?

Joe Green:                          Sure, Sam, and that’s a great question. I always remind myself and all the congregants that the word of God is truth. That is the ultimate truth. That is absolute truth, and everything else is a variation of that. I also remind them that one of the first descriptions of the devil or the serpent, was he uses subtlety. He uses subtlety. He erodes the word of God, and it’s a very gradual process at times. Many times, he doesn’t tell you just ignore God’s word, but he subtly starts to put doubt and fear in order for us to get off the path. The word of God is truth, and so as long as we stay on the foundation of truth and God’s word, and not lean on our own understanding, it takes us beyond the soulish emotional realm, and takes us right to the spiritual realm. Amen.

Sam Rohrer:                      Thank you, Joe. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for being with us, and Dr. Marlene McMillan, author of Mountains of Deceit. She has a website. I encourage you to go there, Then of course, you can get this program in archive form on our website, Thank you for being with us today. Take the program, share it with your friends. It’ll do them, I know, a world of good.