This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program originally aired on Feb. 25, 2021. To listen to the program, please click HERE.

Sam Rohrer:                      Christians all around the world today are being persecuted for their faith in greater numbers than at any time in recorded world history. We’ve talked about that on this program before in a general sense, and we’ve given very specifics. I’m going to be more specific today. I’m going to ask you this question. Are you prepared to go to jail for standing in the gap for truth here in America?

                                             Well, just days ago, Canadian pastor James Coates was sent to prison. He is today in solitary confinement in Alberta, Canada. For doing what? For simply physically meeting in their church with their church family, and thereby opposing the government dictate to stay closed due to COVID virus.

                                             Hello and welcome to Stand in the Gap Today. I’m Sam Rohrer. Our theme today is this, When Pastors Go to Jail: The Cost of Standing for Truth. Co-hosting today with me is Dr. Gary Dull.

                                             In just a moment, I’m going to invite in attorney John Carpay. He is the president of Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms. It’s the law firm representing Pastor John Coates, and by example, I’m going to submit, defending the freedoms of all Canadians, and I’m also going to go further and suggest perhaps lighting the path for us here in the United States.

                                             Lest you think the aggressive erosion of religious freedom and the advance of godless tyranny is only across the border, think again, because in segments three and four today, I’m going to invite in constitutional attorney David New as we consider what is perhaps the most egregious, the most unconstitutional and ungodly statutory attempt to formalize, these are my words, formalize government persecution of Christians and to all who hold a Judeo-Christian worldview of life and morality, because today in Congress, in the U.S. House, voting continues on a bill, House Resolution H.R. 5, referred to in the law, that specific law, that act, as the Equality Act. I’m going to refer to it, not as the Equality Act, but as the Immoral Inequality Act. Stay with us for a filled and a very pertinent program today as we talk about these two very pertinent issues, things really happening and things we need to be aware about.

                                             With that, let me welcome in right now to the program John Carpay, who, again, is the president of Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms in Alberta, Canada. John, thank you for being with us today.

John Carpay:                     Glad to be on your show.

Sam Rohrer:                      John, as I mentioned, you are the president of the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms, and you have a website at You’re located in Canada. You are defending, as I said, Pastor James Coates of GraceLife Church in, I believe it’s Edmonton, correct me if I’m not correct there, Alberta, Canada. This pastor now sits in jail by order of government officials, not for violating a moral law of God, but for supporting a higher law, God’s law, and fully within his God-given rights to lead his congregation in worship, as commanded by God. Now, with that being said, here’s my first question to you. What are the charges alleged against Pastor John Coates by the Canadian authorities, and under what Canadian law or statute can they throw a pastor into jail for simply doing what pastors do according to the Bible and according to what I think is the law anyways?

John Carpay:                     Well, Pastor Coates is in jail because he refuses to adhere to the government’s unscientific and unconstitutional health orders which limit the church attendance to only 15% of the congregation, as opposed to Walmarts and big-box stores and restaurants and liquor stores and marijuana stores. Everything is open to a large extent, and there are restrictions placed on churches that are arbitrary, that are unfair. Churches and all houses of worship, synagogues and mosques and so on, are being singled out by government, and there’s no science to back that up, that the houses of worship are imposing any kind of a threat to anybody.

                                             Pastor Coates is charged with violating the health orders of the province of Alberta, and he is in jail because he will not make a solemn commitment to refrain from having a full church and having regular Sunday worship. That is where things are at right now. The trial is set for May 3rd to 5th, and that’s more than eight weeks away. He potentially could be in jail for another eight weeks, but we’re filing an appeal and hoping to get him out of jail and to be treated like anybody else, that if you’re not… Unless you’re a murderer or a rapist or a pedophile or some serious threat to the public, ordinarily you have your liberty until such time as you go to trial because you have the presumption of innocence, and you’re innocent until proven guilty. We’re hoping to get him… Our goal is to get him out of jail sooner, but the trial is set for eight weeks from now.

Gary Dull:                           Unfortunately, so many times today we are not innocent until proven guilty, both in the United States and Canada. That’s a sad thing. John, let me ask you, what is the support level of Pastor Coates as it relates to his wife and his church? Are they standing with him on this? It must be a strange thing for a pastor and the husband to be in jail. How are they responding to his imprisonment right now?

John Carpay:                     Well, his own church… He was imprisoned on February 16th, and the following Sunday, which was Sunday the 21st, his entire congregation went to church. In fact, they had more people attending than ever before. So the church is standing strong. There’s another church in Calgary, which is about a three hours’ drive south of Edmonton, that, in solidarity with GraceLife Church near Edmonton, this Calgary church has said, “We’re opening up, and we’re not going to comply with these unscientific and unconstitutional violations of our freedoms.” The silver lining on the cloud is that people are starting to stand up, because the problem is the more that you comply with unconstitutional laws and policies and directives and orders from the government, the more that you comply, the worse that it gets. We see this historically. If you allow all these supposedly minor violations of your rights and freedoms-

Sam Rohrer:                      John, I’ve got to step in. Ladies and gentlemen, you got what John the attorney said for Pastor James Coates. The more you comply with unconstitutional or unlawful actions, the more of those you will get. Now, when we come back, we’re going to talk about a biblical principle that talks about this, and we’ll go further into this understanding of what is the deal with Pastor James Coates.

                                             Here on Stand in the Gap Today, our theme today, this is part of our constitutional legal law update program, our theme, though, is this, When Pastors Go to Jail: The Cost of Standing for Truth. Our special guest is John Carpay. We are focusing on an incident that’s occurred in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. Pastor James Coates of GraceLife Church is today, right now, sitting in jail in solitary confinement. Why? Not because he broke a law, but because he fulfilled God’s command and had his church gather physically, exactly the way God would say to do it. Now he’s in jail. There’s a cost. His church is going through it. They’re experiencing it. His wife is experiencing something she probably never dreamed about. I want all of you who are listening to this program to understand that it’s happening not just in Canada. We know it’s happening around the world. But it’s coming here to our United States and may come to you, so we better figure these things out.

                                             When the principle of biblical authority is rightly understood, and there’s a right theology of government and authority, which we’ve talked about on this program, then the real applications of such themes as obedience to God rather than man, or duty to God, or fear of God more than the fear of man, come into focus. In the Book of Proverbs, Chapter 28 and Verse 4, there’s an extraordinary truth. It says this. “Those who forsake the law praise the wicked, but those who keep the law strive against them.”

                                             You see, for the person who understands that it is God who established the civil order for society, the concept of the jurisdictions of self-government, family government, church government, and civil government, and then made them all accountable to God Himself, for the person who understands that it is God who established the standard for the moral and civil laws and the standard for justice, and that He was the giver and the author of all unalienable rights, and then charged civil authority to protect those rights, then that person is in a much better position to understand that they must always say yes to God, but sometimes that means saying no to civil authority, and as Proverbs says, sometimes even to strive against civil authority. It’s a biblical principle. We have to understand it.

                                             John, your firm is defending and representing Pastor Coates, and I’m going to say, in addition to him, but really all pastors across Canada, and I’m going to say spills over into the United States as well. I watched a sermon of him preaching prior to being arrested, and it appeared to me that he had come to the biblical understanding of his duty to oppose an ungodly and unconstitutional government mandate. You shared a little bit on the other side, but come back and share a little bit more about what compelled Pastor Coates to draw the line. Did that factor into the government officials saying, “You went too far. We’re going to throw you in jail”? Talk to us about that.

John Carpay:                     Well, I think the starting point, and I’m not a pastor or a Bible scholar, but the starting point is that we obey the authorities; however, you see departures from that in certain circumstances. When the Pharaoh of Egypt ordered every baby boy of the Hebrews to be murdered, the midwives lied to Pharaoh and said, “Well, we’re not able to help you carry out this genocide of the baby boys because the Jewish women are different and they give birth quickly. The baby is born before we can get there.” They lied to Pharaoh. Pharaoh believed them. Then it says God approved of the Hebrew midwives; He approved of their conduct. We see the prostitute Rahab lying in regards to the city of Jericho. And we see in the Book of Acts where the apostles are ordered to stop preaching, and they all say, “Well, we will obey the laws of God rather than the laws of man.”

                                             Blind obedience to the authorities is not taught by the Bible, and that’s reflected in the Constitution of Canada, the Constitution of the United States, that when an unjust law is passed, that is unjust because it violates our human dignity and our fundamental rights and freedoms, then we say, “No, we’re not going to obey an unjust law.” For Pastor James Coates in Canada, these restrictions on churches are not just and they’re not backed by science. They’re not based on facts. So he is following his conscience and obeying God by not complying with the 15% capacity limit and a whole bunch of other restrictions that just have no foundation in science or in facts.

Gary Dull:                           John, that’s absolutely correct. Certainly, we know that there in the Book of Acts, it tells us that we ought to obey God rather than man. When man’s laws and directives get in the way with what God intends us to do, then we need to take a stand. I certainly do appreciate your willingness there to stand in the gap for truth in Canada, not only with Pastor Coates, but others as well. We appreciate you being on the program today. I’m certain that, by now, many of our listeners across the United States are wondering what we can do to stand with Pastor Coates, with his church, and with you in this battle in the defending of freedom, not only here in the United States, but with you up there in Canada. Tell our audience today, if you don’t mind, John, what can we do to stand with you folks in this battle right now?

John Carpay:                     Well, I think the most important thing is to remember that no country is immune from losing their rights and freedoms. It’s been said that when liberty dies in the heart of man, there’s no law, no court, no constitution that can save it. The American Constitution is rightfully admired for being the best in the world, or one of the best in the world, in any event, for protecting fundamental rights and freedoms. But if your culture gets rotten and people no longer cherish that freedom and dignity to be respected by the government, and if people willingly turn themselves into servants of the government or slaves of the government, and if government becomes our master rather than our servant to carry out certain essential tasks for which we do need government, if you have that cultural shift, then ultimately even the American Constitution cannot protect the rights and freedoms of Americans if the culture becomes rotten and you get to a point where judges no longer understand and appreciate and revere the Constitution.

                                             To be actively involved in the democratic process is extremely important, and that’s kind of a big picture. On a smaller scale, I think that Pastor Coates deeply appreciates all the prayers. There are good organizations in the United States that are fighting similar battles. The Alliance Defending Freedom is one that comes to mind. It is doing very good, very important work throughout the U.S. Alliance Defending Freedom, ADF, is a worthwhile American organization to support and always looking for new donors, of course.

Sam Rohrer:                      John, we only have about a minute and a half left here. Expand this a little bit. When talking with one of your other attorneys in your firm yesterday, I asked him the same question Gary asked you, what can be done? Build this out just a bit. He said, “You know, Sam,” he said, “praying, absolutely, for sure.” He said, “But you know what? If the pastors of America, if Americans generally,” building on what you said, “would understand that compliance with evil or unconstitutional laws is,” like I read in that verse from Proverbs, “is actually praising that unconstitutional or unlawful action.” He said, “The thing you need to do is you need to learn to say no and not comply with those things that are immoral, anti-God, anti-Bible, anti-Constitution.” Build that out just a little bit, as a constitutional attorney, why that’s so important.

John Carpay:                     Well, there’s a distinction between niceness and love, and I think that that has been, certainly, entirely lost in Canada. People think that to be loving and to be nice are the same things, and they’re not. There’s a lot of overlap, and it’s good to be nice. Please and thank you, and hold the door open for somebody else, and be friendly and be kind, all of that stuff is great. However, love divorced from truth becomes mere sentimentality, and it’s not love.

                                             When you’ve got unjust laws, you can’t be nice, because if you say no to government authorities, whether it’s a police officer or maybe it’s some health inspector, maybe it’s a university administrator that’s shutting down free speech on campus, whenever you say no, you’re not being nice. I think people, especially in Canada, but I suspect in the United States as well, you have to see that distinction. We cannot just be nice all the time because when you say no to an unjust law, you’re not being nice, and that’s okay, but you are being loving. We need to really learn that distinction between being nice and being loving, and we have to be loving. That includes displeasing people when you stand up for truth.

Sam Rohrer:                      There you go. That’s a great way to end. You have a website. I’m sure you’ll have information on that, Is that correct?

John Carpay:                     That’s it exactly.

Sam Rohrer:                      Alrighty. John Carpay of Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms, thank you so much for being with us today. We want to have you back on and get some updates on what’s happening with Pastor James Coates there in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. Thanks so much.

                                             Ladies and gentlemen, stay with us. We’ll be back in just a moment, and we’ll bring in now David New. We’re going to shift gears, and we’re going to talk to you about what’s happening in Washington, D.C., the Immoral Inequality Act that right now is making its way through Congress.

                                             Our theme today is When Pastors Go to Jail. And here’s the real theme. That’s an example. Here’s the theme, The Cost of Standing for Truth.

                                             We talk in this program all the time about standing in the gap for truth. We’ve shared on this program that in these days, it, frankly, won’t not be easier to stand for truth, but it’s going to be you’ll be able to do it a lot more quickly because the evil world is coming to you. We’ve said many times it will be more costly. Now we’re just finding some examples, this pastor in Canada, and we’ll keep you updated on that as we go along, and then we’re going to go to another issue that’s happening in Washington right now called the Equality Act, but I call it the Immoral Inequality Act.

                                             Before I do that, let me just share two positive comments from two listeners. One here, this was a fellow, Ray. His name is Ray. He’s in Sunbury, Pennsylvania. He said, “I so appreciate all you folks at American Pastors Network who make these programs possible.” He’s talking about the Stand in the Gap Today program and the Stand in the Gap Weekend program and The Minute. He says, “Please continue and expand this ministry.” He said, “I listen to your program on 90.1 in Beaver Springs, Pennsylvania, and a lot of folks listen in that area.” Thank you, Ray.

                                             Now here’s another one, from Karen all the way on the other side of the country, in Redondo Beach, California. She just sent a note along with a gift, as both of them did, so I thank them both. She said this. “I am so grateful to see and hear more Stand in the Gap radio and TV programs.” She said, “You guys are a vital link to the practical reality of the Word of God and so effectively weave the intersection of culture with Scripture. Wow. Thank you for speaking up for truth and exposing evil.” Karen, you couldn’t have said it any better. Thank you so very much for that.

                                             Ladies and gentlemen, if you have not contacted us or partnered with us in prayer or finances, please go to our website,, and become an effective daily partner in this cause of putting forth truth and doing exactly what Karen said, speaking up on truth, exposing evil, and weaving together biblical principles with the cultural challenges of the day.

                                             All right, I want to shift gears here now. The specter of persecution, that’s how I started the program, the specter of persecution has now come to North America, not only in Canada, which we just looked at, but also the United States. The Bible declares that when the unrighteous are in authority, the people mourn. We’re beginning to sense that. When God is dethroned in America, the goal of the devil himself, and the stated goal of Engels and Marx and all of the others of his compatriots, is that then evil is declared good, immorality is decreed as just, and the righteous are condemned as narrow bigots who discriminate. Such is the leadership, think about it, in every branch of the federal government today, and it’s increasingly obvious.

                                             Wake up, American Christian. I say wake up, every God-fearing American. Wake up, every constitutionally-respecting lover of freedom. Things are changing. We must be aware.

                                             Let me welcome in right now David New. David, thanks for being with us now.

David New:                        How are you doing? Blessings to you.

Sam Rohrer:                      Well, I’m doing well. You were listening to the first part, so you just heard attorney John Carpay. While this matter, David, is in Canada, Canadians have a lot of the similar constitutional protections we’ve had, we’ve also been seeing things happening in this country. You’re out in the west part of the country, the West Coast, California in particular. The governor and local executive branch officials have been really overstepping. Many churches have been attacked and threatened.

                                             Here’s my question to you. What does it say about the day in which we live, David, when even strong constitutions, like ours and what they have in Canada, strong laws, can be so easily ignored, and all of a sudden the laws that protect you can be jettisoned and you can put good people in jail? What’s happened?

David New:                        It’s a very sad commentary, and it clearly indicates that we need to pass legislation concerning this subject. Once this pandemic ends, there needs to be clarification in the law stating that certain things don’t apply, like some of the health rules, they don’t apply to churches unless there’s a really compelling state interest, and I don’t believe they’ve made the case here. They need to really make the case that churches cannot meet and should not meet. They haven’t made the case at all. They’re treating churches, actually, worse than regular businesses. When this thing is over, we need to get our state legislatures and we need to get the federal government to pass laws to clarify, a bill of rights, shall we say, a second bill of rights of some sort, to say what happens, what are your rights in a situation like this where it’s medical, where it’s a medical problem, it’s a medical threat to the community at large.

Sam Rohrer:                      Well, David, unfortunately, we have Congress right now in Washington going the exact opposite direction, not passing laws to protect, but passing laws that would actually abridge other parts of the law offering protections and going the opposite direction. I would put forth we already have a Constitution. We already have a Bill of Rights. Our problem is we don’t need anything more. We just need people who will follow it.

                                             Now let me go here. In Washington, again, I said voting actually continues today. I think it was scheduled 2:30 today for a vote to be taken in the House. That is what they call the Equality Act. I’m calling it the Immoral Inequality Act. David, if you have a quick review there, can you just give us a quick review of this act and what it will do?

David New:                        Well, it’s so sad to see so many horrible things that our government does comes under the cover of wonderful words and good words and decent words like equality. I’m also thinking of the old Patriot Act that was passed right after 9/11, in which the Fourth Amendment was wiped out by allowing the FBI to write a letter and bypassing courts altogether to conduct surveillance and things. This is another example, where they’re trying to basically put in legislation and treat gay rights under the same civil rights of the 1964 act that women should receive, that African-Americans, people who have traditionally been oppressed and have not been respected for their rights; they want these people to have these same rights. Of course, when they do that, they’re going to affect the church because the church is pro-family. The family is a godly institution. It was not a government institution. It was ordained by God.

                                             This law, basically, I think one of the targets of it, if I interpret this correctly, I’m looking at the text of it now, one of the targets would be the Hobby Lobby case. You know how Hobby Lobby was decided in 2014 because of the Affordable Care Act and the contraceptive mandate. The Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993 was key to that case to where Hobby Lobby did not have to comply with those laws. This act, I’m reading directly from it, it says the Religious Freedom Restoration Act is on page 22 of the text of the law, “shall not provide a claim concerning, or a defense to a claim under, a covered title,” in other words, this act here. It takes it away, and that’s a very bad move.

Gary Dull:                           David, in the last session of Congress, this bill was passed by a margin of 236 to 173, which means that eight Republicans actually voted for it. Even though the margins are probably closer in this section, it would appear that there will still be a sufficient majority to pass it. President Biden is in favor of it. Chuck Schumer is in favor of it. A lot of other liberals are in favor of it. The question that I have for you today is simply this. What, if anything, in your opinion, stands in the way of this bill becoming a law?

David New:                        Well, I’m sad to say that elections have consequences. For those members of our community who are believers and have faith in God, if you did not vote in the last election and you could have voted, please learn from that mistake because there are more than enough Christians in this country to where that election could’ve gone a different way had they showed up at the polls. Please learn what happens when you don’t vote.

                                             This law here is a very bad law because it basically wants to put a very immoral lifestyle on the same level of rights as other oppressed minorities. Of course, I’m not interested in oppressing gay and lesbian people. I do not believe they are entitled to this because their lifestyle is a diseased-based lifestyle. The only thing homosexuality has to offer is disease and death. I don’t believe it should have the same protections under the law that, say, African-Americans should have and other oppressed people.

                                             Ladies and gentlemen, if you want to do something about this, you can call Congress and call your representative. The number to call is 202-224-3121. That’s 202-224-3121. Let your representative know, let as many people as you have time to let them know, how you feel about this law and that you oppose it.

Sam Rohrer:                      David, thank you for giving that number. I’m going to ask you to give it again in the next segment before we wrap up the program. We do want all of you who are listening to be, number one, aware, and then when you become aware, you’ve got to do something. Pray, absolutely, but then take some action. Certainly, putting in calls right now would be one thing that’d be very appropriate.

                                             When we come back, we’re going to talk about next steps. We’ve shared some real-life things, a Canadian event ongoing, and we have what’s happening in Washington and how it may come out. Now what do we do?

                                             Well, this program today has highlighted two realities of our day. We didn’t make up these things that we’re talking about. We don’t have to in these days. Our program never is about being sensational, and it is never about being fearmongering. To the contrary, truth, if it is not shared, doesn’t alert anyone, doesn’t help anyone. Truth locked up in a box, truth shut up in a closet, it’s the example of keeping your light under a bushel, as Christ talks about, does no good. We talk about truth here for the purpose that we are instructed, encouraged, and then given direction for how to respond to these things that are coming our way.

                                             Now, I said we highlighted two realities. One, a Bible-believing pastor in Canada now sits in jail, and as we heard, may be sitting in jail until May. Wow. Simply for what? Obeying God and physically meeting in their church with more than 15% of the occupancy, which was the government dictate because of COVID.

                                             Well, the other is the legislative branch of the United States now sits opposed to declare… This is how I’m going to describe it. It’s not just to pass a law. That has nothing to do with equality. What’s at the end of the day? To me, it’s this. They sit posed to declare that God’s law regarding human sexuality to be unlawful and to position themselves as God.

                                             By so doing, what’s the biblical example? To me, it’s like the kings in Psalm Chapter 2, who lift their fist up against the God of heaven and decide to tell God that His design of male and female and family is wrong and that theirs is right. That is exactly what’s happening, and that’s why it’s so dangerous.

                                             In arrogant fashion, they are wanting to change the law to make criminals, subject to jail and prosecution, those who agree with God. That will be the result of this law. They want to take and make those who say, “I agree with God and God’s view of morality,” they become criminals. They, according to them, deserve to go to jail. This is what will happen with that bill.

                                             Now the president and the vice president, the top of the executive branch, and the chief justice of the highest judicial branch, they’ve all indicated by past actions, and some directly with their words, that they care little about God’s authority and His law. Like these legislative leaders, they think they’re going to tell God what to do. The question is, what do we do?

                                             David, I want to go to you first and ask for a two minute, and then I’m going to go to Gary for a two minute, no more. As God-fearing citizens, as pastors in the pulpit, as leaders in the home, we can no longer hope that evil will not come to our door. It’s here. Like a train coming down the track, its approach is quickening. We can see the light come down the tracks. What do you say, David, should be the next steps either in preparation in our mind or our heart, or action for God-fearing citizens generally in light of these things?

David New:                        Well, we definitely need to get our vertical relationship in alignment and live our lives in harmony with God’s will so that we can stand up and fight the fiery darts that are going to come at us. By the way, I do believe there should be a religious exemption for any of these laws that involve the gay lifestyle. If you want proof that the Constitution allows for it, go to the U.S. Constitution in Article II and go to the very last paragraph in Article II of the Constitution, where it talks about the president taking the oath or affirmation, “I do solemnly swear or affirm…”

                                             Now, it’s hidden, and you wouldn’t catch it unless somebody pointed it out to you maybe. You see that word affirm or affirmation? That is a religious exemption built directly into the U.S. Constitution. The reason that was put there, because when you take an oath, an oath is to God. That’s who you take an oath to. You don’t take an oath to a non-deity. It’s always to a deity. There were religious groups, like the Quakers, who do not believe in taking oaths, and so they got a religious exemption built in and it’s called an affirmation.

                                             If your religious conscience is violated by the law, the Constitution itself allows a religious exemption, and that’s why this Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993 should not be included under this law. I don’t agree with this law at all, but they want to take away the religious exemption. That is wrong, and that is a mistake.

Sam Rohrer:                      David, very good summary and good point to bring out there. Gary, I want to go to you next. David spoke more generally. I want you to give a challenge to the pulpit, those who are listening, those who would be leaders within their church, those who would be in the pew, because most of those listening to the program are not pastors, clearly. We’re a pastor-led entity, but you’re speaking to the pew and you’re speaking to pastors as well. What do you say should be the next steps here in light of these things?

Gary Dull:                           Sam, three things come to my mind. First of all, the matter of prayer. I don’t think that we should ever underestimate the matter of prayer. When we see the matters that are going on in the world around us today, we need to pray, pray, pray, pray, pray, because I think the more we pray for wisdom and strength and direction, the more that God will give us the wisdom and strength and direction we need. It might sound simple, but that’s the way to get the direction from God.

                                             Secondly, we need to plan a strategy. In other words, we need to know in advance what we are going to do when evil things come our way, from the government or whatever the source may be. I think that we need to plan that strategy for our homes, for our churches, for our businesses, for our schools. Those of us who are in leadership must definitely lead in that.

                                             Then, number three, prepare. We need to prepare to take all the necessary action to stand in the gap for truth, because truth is being thrown out on the streets to be trampled over.

                                             These three things are very significant. We must put them to action. Pray, plan a strategy, and prepare to take all the necessary action. We could elaborate upon that, but folks, think about that.

                                             Sam, from your perspective, as one who’s been in office for nearly 20 years, what recommendation would you give as it relates to some potential next steps to take?

Sam Rohrer:                      Well, Gary, I think I would go here, and don’t have much time as well. Yours were very clear. Let’s put it this way. I’m going to see if I can say this. Always pursue the truth and identify the truth principle as it relates to whatever issue affects us, number one. Number two, embrace that truth principle. Don’t just read it. I’m going to say, that truth principle will always be found in the Word of God. The Bible has the answer for everything that we need right now. We need to find it.

                                             Pursue that truth and that truth principle or command, embrace it, meaning believe it, identify it and believe it, and then the third thing is act upon it. That’s why the attorney for James Coates up there said, “Sam,” he said, “the most important thing you can do is it’s time for people to say no.” But saying no to sin, to me, ladies and gentlemen, starts first by saying yes to God. You say yes to God, “I will obey what you say first, at all costs. I will obey.” Then it’ll be much easier to know when to draw the line and say no for those times when government or others ask us to do things that are not biblical. That was the position that Pastor James Coates made in his church. I encourage us all to do that.

                                             Well, we’re at the end of the program. Thanks for being with us today. Go back and listen to the program at or on your app. You can make sure you download it by putting in the phrase Stand in the Gap. Then you can forward the program, and all of them in archive form, to your friends or others. You can post them on different mediums. However you communicate, you can post it. Let other people know that there’s a place that you can find the truth, biblical truth, constitutionally sound, right here on Stand in the Gap Today.