God’s Plan for a Blessed Nation:

Principle #7 – How God’s Plan for Justice Works

A Stand in the Gap Today Transcript

August 16, 2021

Host: Sam Rohrer

Co-hosts: Dr. Gary Dull, Dr. Jamie Mitchell

Click HERE for PDF version.

Segment 1:

Sam Rohrer:

Well, hello and welcome to Stand in the Gap today, this Monday edition here of a new week of programming here in Stand in the Gap today. I hope you all had a great weekend. I know this was eventful for me and probably all of you as well. Now today, I’ll tell you, this is going to be the seventh in our Monday series that we’re entitling 10 Principles to National Renewal. If you’ve been listening, I’ve also phrased it in other ways. You can also call it God’s Plan for a Blessed Nation, 10 Principles America Ignores at its own Peril. I’m Sam Rohrer and I’m going to have with me today, two of our Stand in the Gap today and APN team members, Stand in the Gap today co-host, Dr. Keith Wiebe and APN director of church culture and pastoral engagement, Dr. Jamie Mitchell. And both of these individuals, as I mentioned before when they were with me a couple of weeks ago, together, they have pastored and taught for nearly 75 years. God has gifted them with a great deal of insight and wonderful experience.

Sam Rohrer:

And so I’ve asked both of them to be with me today for this seventh in this series but before we unveil the essence of this principle today, I really want to make an announcement to all of you of our Stand in the Gap family because we’ve had a real change in our Stand in the Gap family. Some of you may have known or may know by this point but yesterday morning, about 9:30 AM Eastern time, our dear friend and expert guest on our biweekly Israel update Wednesday program, Dr. Jimmy DeYoung was called home to glory by the Lord. And he was so faithful in his service to the Lord, just shy a few weeks of 81 years of age, the Lord called Jimmy home to be with him. And as I interfaced with his daughter, even today, I said, “Jimmy really, really wanted to go up in the rapture. And I thought he was going to make it, God called him home early.”

Sam Rohrer:

And I told Jody, his daughter this morning, I said, “Jody, he went home earlier than he thought, than we thought but I don’t think we’re too far behind.”

Sam Rohrer:

And she got back to me, she said, “No, I don’t think we are.”

Sam Rohrer:

And he, I know, is thinking that same thing right now. What we’re going to do, is that on Wednesday, Jimmy was scheduled to be back with us for our bi-weekly emphasis, so we’re going to do a little bit of a tribute to the Lord, a thanks to the Lord on behalf of and honoring Dr. Jimmy DeYoung, who’s now with the Lord. It’s going to be a real loss. We miss him, his family misses him and I know you do too but I wanted to mention that to you and to say that God in his perfect plan allows things to happen. And we’re all heading that way, hopefully you’re prepared. He knew he was going to go there when the time came. I do too and hope that you do as well. That’ll be all for right now but I just wanted to let you know that important news.

Sam Rohrer:

Now, back to the program for today because thus far, we’ve identified on the series of programs of God’s Plan for a Blessed Nation, our founders pulled it from the pages of scripture. We’ve referred to them as 10 principles essential, that if our nation is to be renewed and it so desperately needs to be renewed, that’s going to have to come off of what God laid down as a plan. There’s no substitute for these principles, all are necessary. Nothing can be left out, all build precept upon precept, stone upon stone. All are from God’s word, all were identified and embraced by our founders. And every one of them are identified in the writings of the founder of Pennsylvania, amazingly right here in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, William Penn.

Sam Rohrer:

Just very briefly, and I’m going to go to Gary and Keith for just a very quick response to two quick questions but brief review. Principle one, we want to understand the necessity of embracing integrity and virtue. This involves the pursuit of truth and honesty and the decision to fear God and keep his commandments. Principle number two, was understand the nature and the role of God, that he is creator, sustainer, sovereign and judge. Principle three, was understand the nature of man, that man’s a sinner from birth, hopelessly depraved, except through redemption through Jesus Christ. And then principle number four, understand the purpose for government, that’s to enact justice, praising those who do well, punishing those who do evil. And then principle number five, we did last week, to understand the purpose for law, we dealt with that. And then principle number six was the tendency of a government and that is to consolidate power and to dethrone God.

Sam Rohrer:

Now, that brings us to principle seven, understand the role of justice in government. Just because of time, I want to go directly to you Keith right now, for a brief definition, which we like to do always, about justice. Give me a definition of justice that we can start the discussion with today.

Keith Wiebe:

Oh Sam, the definition of justice is really simple. We make a big mistake when we try to make it real complex, it consists simply in giving to every person, what is his due. It is practical conformity to the laws, to principles in men’s dealings with each other. It is the embodiment of honesty, integrity in both our interpersonal relationships and also in our business dealings.

Sam Rohrer:

And that is simple. What is due, ladies and gentlemen, everything and giving someone and everyone what his due. We’ll come back on that and build that out because he also talked about conformity to the laws and so forth. All of that is a part, we’ll deal with that. Jamie, we go to you. For a nation to experience freedom and blessing of God, the people must understand the components of biblical justice because justice is not just justice. It’s comprised of a couple of things, whether you call it legs under the stool or whatever, could you identify those for us please?

Jamie Mitchell:

Well, Isaiah 59:14 talks about this Sam and to espouse trust from the citizenry, there’s going to be three things that really, biblical justice brings about. One, is it has to be based on truth and the idea that God is righteous and the righteousness of God is seen in truth. It’s got to provide mercy for people and has a sense of compassion and a heart but also equity, it has to be fair. We can’t have two tiers of justice, Sam and that’s part of the problem why we’re facing a crisis right now in our nation, is these components of trust and mercy and equity have been in some respects, corrupted. And so we’re reeling right now, saying to ourselves, “Is justice really based on truth? Does it really express mercy? And is it fair, is it equitable?”

Jamie Mitchell:

And if these components are missing, our justice system breaks down.

Sam Rohrer:

In fact, it does. And ladies and gentlemen, when you look around as I and we are looking around at what’s happening in this country, we say, “What in the world is happening to the law? Law being made, law not being enforced, somebody’s ideas being enforced as law.”

Sam Rohrer:

Well, what’s that represent in justice? That’s not justice biblically or as defined by our law.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

Segment #2:

Sam Rohrer:

We’ll move into this next section now, we’re going to talk about justice and its connection to the law and then we’ll move into other aspects of it, how it works and we’re going to talk about the purpose for it in the last segment.

Sam Rohrer:

Well, we’re dealing with now, the seventh principle in our 10 principles to national renewal and we’ve identified today’s focus principle, number seven, as the role of justice in government. One important person in the process of framing what became our representative Republic, Penn’s Phraseology, the holy experiment and freedom. Someone did provide input to William Penn in his vision. Now, a lot of the founders at that point, considered different input from different people. One was Blackstone, Blackstone’s commentary. That was a major one but another one was Frederic Bastiat. He was a free market economist, opponent of socialism and he was also a student of biblical principles in government, lived during the early 18 hundreds. William Penn wrote his frame of government in 1862, to give you context. Now, his book, The Law … 1682 rather, not 1862 but Penn was 1682. And this fellow lived in the early 1600s. I’ve got that out here, right.

Sam Rohrer:

He wrote his book called The Law. It was published and republished in the United States and throughout Europe in that timeframe but among other things, Bastiat, consistent with scripture, made a very few pertinent statements, actually made quite a few but I’m going to pull out just a couple of pertinent statements that he made about the law and justice. Now, listen carefully to this because it’s very profound and I’m going to suggest that probably … Who knows if I could even quantify it, maybe 1% of those in office and probably of judges as well, would know enough about law and truth and justice to make this statement but listen to this. He said, “The function of law is not to regulate our consciences, our ideas, our wills, our education, our opinions, our work, our trade, our talents or our pleasures.”

Sam Rohrer:

He said, “The function of law is to protect the free exercise of these rights and to prevent any person from interfering with the free exercise of these same rights by any other person.”

Sam Rohrer:

You get that, wow, profound. Now, he goes on, he said, “Since law necessarily requires the support of force, it’s lawful domain is only in the areas where the use of force is necessary.”

Sam Rohrer:

And then he said, “This is justice.”

Sam Rohrer:

Then he went on and made another statement. He said, “The law is justice, simple and clear, precise and bounded.”

Sam Rohrer:

He said, “Everyone can see it and every mind can grasp it. First, justice is measurable and unchangeable. Justice is neither more than this, nor less than this.”

Sam Rohrer:

All right Jamie, in the last segment, you identified the three components of justice. You mentioned truth, mercy and equity. I’m going to use that word, I’m not going to use the word fairness. Equity means equal application to all but it’s typified by the normal picture of lady justice. And people know what that is, it’s on the Supreme Court building. Now, the Bible teaches in any observation of government and the rule of law indicates that justice like a door, swings on the hinges of truth. Well, so does law, you mentioned that. Here’s what I’d like you to do here, could you make the connection between absolute truth, justice and just law, which led Bastiat to make the statement that the law is justice. Would you build that out please?

Jamie Mitchell:

Well Sam, as we’ve been talking about renewing our nation part of the problem is that we lack trust. We lack trust in the law, we lack trust in justice. And as Deuteronomy 16 talks about, the whole issue of how to renew justice, part of it was to make sure that judges had limited scope, that they used a righteous judgment, meaning the truth of God’s word and the basis of law and not ignoring laws and not avoiding the truth. There should be no partiality. And it’s interesting, it says there in Deuteronomy 16, that there is to be the avoidance of bribery as well. And so all of that to say Sam, is that if the law, the truth of God’s word is properly applied within the context of justice, it brings about a sense of trust and confidence and order in our government. And if you look across the landscape right now, we have such confusion and upheaval and a lack of trust in our government. And part of it, is that we’re not applying the law in a just manner.

Sam Rohrer:

And Jamie, you could go on much further beyond that, I know but you put down the elements of it. Truth with its unchanging nature, is necessary for what we call just law. When it’s in place and administered properly, there is trust as you put it and there is predictability. Now Keith, I want to go to you because we know from scripture that just law hinges on God’s law and the character and the nature of God, which never changes, that’s why those are connected. God’s law based on God’s definition of truth, since God’s the author of truth and God never changes. Therefore, the definition of truth never changes. And therefore, God’s moral law never changes nor does his definition or purpose for justice change. And what I just put down there is all linked to truth and it goes back to the character and the nature of God, which was principle number two in our series, you have to understand the nature of God.

Sam Rohrer:

If we don’t believe that God is and exists and never changes, then you cannot have any of these other things that comes and produces predictable government. Now Bastiat, Keith, also said this, he said, “The law is justice, simple and clear, precise and bounded.”

Sam Rohrer:

He said, “Everyone can see it and every mind can grasp it, for justice is measurable, immutable and unchangeable. Justice is therefore neither more than this, nor than less than this. It’s simple.”

Sam Rohrer:

Here’s my question to you Keith, here right now because if justice is never changing, which is exactly what we’re all talking about so far and that produces predictability in government and the administration of laws and you defined it in segment one, then where did we get this concept of social justice from, which is the word that’s thrown around today. It seems like we don’t have justice as much as social justice, which always seems to change. Could you explain that a little bit?

Keith Wiebe:

Well, those change constantly. It’s based on outcomes, it’s not based on principle. It’s not based on equality of opportunity, equality of application, as it really ought to be. It goes back to what Bastiat said that you read right at the beginning of this segment, “Function of the law is not to regulate our conscience, our ideas, our wills, our education, our opinions, our work, our trade, our talents, our pleasures.”

Keith Wiebe:

… all of which are changeable things. To be just, the concept of law, justice has to be the same in every culture, in every timeframe because it is based upon the absolute, unchanging nature of God. Social justice is always based just on the current set of circumstances. What’s going on now? Which group is being a victim this week? It therefore needs something different then, for them. Law to be just, has to be changing in every circumstance.

Sam Rohrer:

Keith, that was very simple and very clear. I know that in my time in office, lots of discussions I had with people, I even had discussions with many pastors because there are pastors who are actually promoting social justice. Not only is it those in society that have thrown off God’s truth, there are others who have their own idea of what justice is and it goes to the heart of what you’re just talking about. It’s why here in Pennsylvania, William Penn and certain other founders as well, said that, “This frame of government, this holy experiment in freedom, the self-government under God.”

Sam Rohrer:

… they called, was, “Wholly dependent upon a Christian people, people who had a worldview of God that reflected a biblical thought but who also then voluntarily submitted themselves, constrained their actions, those citizens and those in office eventually, according to the 10 commandments of God, God’s unchanging moral law.”

Sam Rohrer:

Goes right to the heart of what you’re talking about. It’s really not that complicated. Jamie, just a quick question for you I guess, in this regard. You’ve heard the discussion here at this point, from your perspective, why is it so critical that we have law linked to God’s moral law as a defined standard that does not change by circumstances?

Jamie Mitchell:

Well Sam, pretty simple. Jeremiah says it this way, “The heart is deceitfully wicked. No man understands his own heart.”

Jamie Mitchell:

If I don’t like a law and I want to change a law or I feel that it’s unfair or I can’t keep that law because of my life circumstance, it’s too difficult to follow that law, I’m going to constantly want to change the law to fit my morality and the way I want to live. And that just leads to all kinds of chaos. And at the end of the day, there is going to be tremendous inequity there.

Sam Rohrer:

And ladies and gentlemen, what Jamie just said took us back to the nature of man. And that was principle number three, understand the nature of man, that he’s sinful in his heart and that’s why God gave us government, authority structure under God’s administration and therefore the law, which never changes, in order to help govern the sinful nature of man according to God’s holy standard. See how it all comes together, it comes together perfectly in every regard when we come at it and look at it from God’s perspective. Stay with us, we’ll be right back as we continue principle number seven.

Segment 3:

Sam Rohrer:

As we get back into the program here and continue … Again, I’m Sam Rohrer, accompanied today by Keith Wiebe and Jamie Mitchell. This is seventh in our series of 10 Principles to National Renewal. And I want to say at this juncture, that we are working on a booklet, I mentioned it earlier. I just want you to know it’s not available right now that I can give it to you. We’re actually waiting until this series is completely concluded, as we give input and build out these various points but this is going to find its way very quickly, probably in September, into a booklet that you will be able to get a hold of and hand out to others, as well as to yourself. And it’s intended to coincide with and cooperate with the radio programs, as well as we’re also doing this on our Stand in the Gap TV program. We’re into that, each radio program is actually divided into two parts on the TV program and so we’re tracking these together.

Sam Rohrer:

And so I want you to be able to know that that is available but in the meantime, if you go to our website, StandintheGapradio.com and you open that up that page on the website and you go to the radio tab at the top of it, go to radio tab and then you’ll find the option for transcripts. If you highlight that, you can actually then read the transcripts of every one of these programs so far. On the website right now, you will find the transcripts for all of the six programs prior to this. As soon as we get these down, then we’re putting them up. Ultimately, you’ll be able to download for free, all of these transcripts of these various programs. And that I think, you will find very, very, very helpful. And they will track with these, obviously the radio program. The book will follow, that you can access and we’ll put these all together. I just wanted you to know that.

Sam Rohrer:

All right, let’s go on to it because there’s so much that’s here. We’re talking about the role of justice in government. We’ve defined it, we’ve talked about its connection to the law but then how does it work? Well, the entire approach to understanding government and law and justice, good and evil, government’s purpose to enact justice by punishing those who do evil and protecting and praising those who do well, all hinges on one’s worldview. We just talked about it. Now, only a biblical worldview though, yields a concept of unchanging truth and true, observable justice as Bastiat talked about, the Bible talks about, based on just law, which hinges on truth, being defined by God and implemented by all of those in positions of authority, including the concept of government. All individuals operating under authority in the capacity of servants of God, Romans 13, to carry out God’s purposes. Government’s purpose is not to do its own will, it’s to do God’s will.

Sam Rohrer:

Now, only a biblical worldview that starts with integrity, embracing of God as sovereign, creator, judge and redeemer, the concept of sin and mankind as depraved and sinful from birth, the concept that God so loved the world that he sent Jesus Christ to redeem mankind, only that God can produce and that view, can produce just law and freedom and justice for all.

Sam Rohrer:

Anything else, worldview of an atheist, communist, Islamist or any others who reject Jesus Christ as king, all others will produce tyranny, bondage and unimaginable horror, such as we’re seeing unfold literally around the world today. Keith, I want to go to you now because I want to have you illustrate scripture. Again, is the place our founders went … That’s where we drive everybody back to, we bring in history to show that other people recognize that the Bible was true but let’s go right to the word of God. Give us some insight here, some illustrations perhaps, of how righteous government should carry out justice and mercy and equity as the components of justice. In one illustration I know, it talks about King David and his son Solomon, as an example. Take that one, go where you want but build this out and illustrate what it actually looks like in real life.

Keith Wiebe:

Well, the historical sections of the Old Testament give us such excellent examples of God’s truth. Romans 15 says, “Those things written afore time, were written for our learning so that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures, could have hope.”

Keith Wiebe:

Paul would write to the church of Corinth and the Epistles of Corinthians, told us that the things that happened in the Old Testament were for our examples. Well, we have an excellent example of justice, it comes from David. He’s on his death bed, he’s talking to his son Solomon, who was to become king in his stead. And he’s giving Solomon some instructions about things that need to carry over from his administration into the new administration, call them loose ends, need to be tied up, unfinished business but he comes out to be making sure that justice is administered fairly and equally. It involved two individuals. One of them was Joab, who was David’s commander of his army but he instructed Solomon that Joab needed to be punished for his disloyalty. The other individual was Barzillai who was to be rewarded for his loyalty.

Keith Wiebe:

Both of these are very interesting. Joab was a pretty skilled commander of David’s army. He’s something of a dingbat, he’s a very complex character in scripture. He was a man who was, although mostly loyal to David militarily, was yet a man who always had his own very pragmatic, personal agenda. He harbored bitterness and a grudge against a couple of generals, two men named Joab and Abishai. And he, harboring this grudge in the process of war, killed them both. Now, the Bible is very clear. David never punished him for this. I think it’s because David didn’t know about it at the time, the Bible twice in First Kings chapter two, second, Samuel chapter three, is very specific in saying, “David knew nothing about this.”

Keith Wiebe:

He instructed Solomon, “This man still needs to be punished for his disloyalty. He needs to be put to death.”

Keith Wiebe:

The other individual, Barzillai, was loyal to David when he had to flee, when Absalom revolted against David and took command of the kingdom. David was forced to flee probably literally with barely the clothes on his back, a few trusted associates, among them Barzillai, so loyal to David. And David instructed Solomon, “Be sure that he’s rewarded for his loyalty.”

Keith Wiebe:

I would suggest Sam, that there are two very broad principles about administering justice, about law, that we get from this. One, is accountability, that it’s to be the same in one political administration and in the next political administration. It doesn’t change because of political philosophies or changes in viewpoint or changes in policy. Justice ought to be accountable the same way.

Keith Wiebe:

The other thing, is justice needs to be impartial. Joab was a big man in the government, he was a commander and yet he had to be accountable for his actions. We know next to nothing, almost nothing else about Barzillai, except that he was loyal to David when he fled Absalom. Here’s a man who had a, we could say small place in government. Here’s a man who had a very large place in government but justice is administered impartially, even though in fact scripture describes innocent blood being shed because Joab was so wicked in trying to make sure that he got the grudge field taken care of, that was so important to him. Accountability in the administration of justice and impartiality, illustrated for us so well and the historical accounts in scripture.

Sam Rohrer:

Keith, that was excellent because what you talked about there, was that justice, according to a defined standard of law, moral law, transcends administration. And I’m going to add some other words to it, is not politically shaped. Justice, ladies and gentlemen, is never politically shaped. And if it is, it’s not justice. We’ve talked about it here on the principle, dealing with the law. One of the aspects of law, as our founders understood and they used this word, was that they said, “Just law must conform to what the Latin word says, Lex Rex.”

Sam Rohrer:

They called that out specifically. Lex meaning law, Rex meaning king, law over the king, meaning the law must reign supreme. Not the king, not somebody special like Joab, a general. The law must apply equally to everybody, regardless of their position or station in life. Now, I’m just going to do a little commentary here. You look around this nation today, what do you see happening with law? You have favored people because of who they are, have never gone to justice. For some reason, it seems like they never come before a judge or a court. And right now, you have judges across the country that are having appeals made to them based on laws coming from this government that are violating the rights of citizen. And judges won’t even hear the case. What is that? Somebody, many think that they’re above the law. This is the definition of injustice and it’s why our founders said, “It starts with God, nature of man, purpose of government, purpose of law. And then it comes down to the execution of justice according to the law.”

Sam Rohrer:

Now, we’re going to come back in just a minute and I’m going to have Jamie explain to me, what is actually the purpose for justice? We’re going to talk about what it is and how but why, you ever think about why does justice exist? I think you’ll be remarkably edified and encouraged by this.

Segment 4:

Sam Rohrer:

In our culture today, truth, we all know has been redefined. We talk about it a lot on this program. Once, truth was considered absolute. It is always absolute and unchanging if you understand who God is and you believe that God has given us his unchanging truth. He’s the author of truth and put it into the word of God, which is the written truth. Now, if we believe that, then truth is never relative, it’s always true but we all know that we’re living in days where truth is relative. It’s been relative for a long time. The judges determine, well, they can just change God’s law at will and they do. Prayer in schools, 10 commandments, marriage, human sexuality, a whole lot more, right. That happens but in real life, I think individuals do as well. We just make up what we want. George Barna last week on the program, we talked about it, that’s the latest research. 90% plus of Americans believe that men can come up with the definition of truth however they want to, as long as they feel good about it.

Sam Rohrer:

And that was the point that George made, not what God says about it but what they feel about it. We’ve got trouble here but we cannot survive as a nation of laws. The rule of law, it can’t happen unless truth is once again, embraced as absolute. Even when truth is accepted as absolute, it must be administered with, as we’ve used these words, mercy or it becomes harsh and cold. What’s mercy? Well, mercy results from an understanding of grace, which is a part of the character and the nature of a God. And with the goal of the individuals, and here is key, restoration. While punishment for breaking the law must be enforced, there must be an element of mercy involved, with restoration being the goal of punishment. Yet, just as justice administered based only on truth without mercy can become harsh, the administration of justice with mercy but without truth quickly becomes license. You just do what you want.

Sam Rohrer:

The connection of the proper administration of justice from God’s perspective, cannot however, be executed without a personal understanding of the grace of God, as the author of truth, who is just and merciful. And until that person has realized God’s grand plan of redemption, which we talk about all the time on the program, through what Jesus Christ, God’s son has done. Jamie, we’ve defined justice. We’ve identified the what of justice, its components of truth and mercy and equality. And we’ve illustrated, Keith did last segment, from the pages of scripture, the need for it to be carefully executed with wisdom but like most things, the why is of really core importance. I want to ask you right now, take a few moments here, take what we’ve discussed and what I just shared in the introduction to the segment and further explain the why of justice, its connection to God’s plan of redemption spiritually and its restoration physically, it’s a beautiful thing.

Jamie Mitchell:

Well Sam, as you were talking, I was thinking about the reason for justice is that a law was broken. And when a law is broken, there is a number of things that are broken. And what justice does, is to fix what is broken, to restore what is broken. What’s broken when the laws are violated? What outcome does justice bring? Well, here’s a couple of things. First off, if true justice happens, the sin is revealed. The law that’s broken is revealed. The absolute law is applied and that restores trust. When people break the law and they do something wrong, somebody wants somebody to come along and say, “Hey, that was wrong. That wasn’t right.”

Jamie Mitchell:

And that restores trust. Secondly, is order is restored. If someone breaks a law and violates a store owner or runs a stop sign, there’s disorder in the world. Proverbs 21 says, “When justice is done, it is joy to the righteous but brings terror to the evildoer.”

Jamie Mitchell:

… because the evildoer has brought turmoil. And so true justice restores order. Also Sam, justice restores what was lost. We call that restitution. And we make something whole. If justice is properly applied, whatever was lost gets to be put back to whole. Now, sometimes we can’t bring complete restitution. If somebody’s life is lost or something of great value can’t be completely restored but we do look for restitution to bring about restoration of that was lost. The fourth thing, is that the future of uncertainty of maybe future laws being broken, is thwarted. We discourage future offenses because people see what happens. If laws are broken, justice is brought about, consequences brought, it’s going to slow down law breaking in the future. Fifth, it restores the spirit of the one who was violated.

Jamie Mitchell:

Sam, one of the things that I see all the time, is if justice doesn’t happen, living with injustice brings tremendous bitterness in the heart of a person who was hurt or violated. As the prophet Amos says, we turn justice into wormwood. That was a bitter tasting item. And so we have to have justice to take away those bitterness that’s in the heart of the one who is violated. And then the final thing that’s broken, is the one who’s done the law breaking and hopefully God willing, that true justice shown with mercy, will help restore the one who’s violated the laws. Hopefully, they’ll never do it again because they have felt the sting of justice, the consequence of what they’ve done. And so those five things, trust, order, restitution, controlling the future, restoring the spirit of the one that was broken and hopefully restoring the life of the law breaker.

Sam Rohrer:

Okay. Jamie, we’re about out of time but I want you to expand just briefly on this because there is a picture of this spiritually. I have said and there were other founders … I’m not a founder but there were others who obviously looked at this as well and said, “It’s not really possible that a person can enact biblical justice or make laws that are consistent with God’s laws, have civil freedom, unless that person has first tasted a spiritual freedom, been set free from the of their sin.”

Sam Rohrer:

Expand upon that, just a little bit.

Jamie Mitchell:

Oh, absolutely. Look, we have a righteous, holy judge, who has said, “We are broken and we need to be made whole.”

Jamie Mitchell:

And so through Jesus Christ, God enacts unbelievable mercy to the law breaker, you and I, and makes us whole and restores our lives. And he’s still, just because his son had to die for the penalty of our sin but his redemption brings restoration in our life. And God’s justice is still fulfilled in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Sam Rohrer:

Well, ladies and gentlemen, we’re just about here at the end but hopefully you get the picture of this all the way through, the whole concept of government under God, right. It’s all the understanding of who God is. He’s perfect, he’s righteous. We are sinners but God loves us. And through his grace and his mercy, he puts into place a thing called government and laws and authority with accountability and all will bow one day before Jesus Christ. If you believe that and you trust in Christ, then you can be set free from the bondage of sin and the brokenness of sin spiritually. And when that is done, then you are finally in a position to be able to well, make the kind of laws and that justice that is predictable and equitable and according to God’s law. That’s how it all fits together. Boy, does it fit perfectly but anyway, thank you for being with us, ladies and gentlemen today, we’ll see you back here tomorrow.