God’s Plan for a Blessed Nation: Principle #9 –

 The Need for Safeguards in Government

A Stand in the Gap Today Transcript

August 30, 2021

Host: Sam Rohrer

Co-hosts: Dr. Keith Wiebe & Dave Kistler

Segment 1:

Sam Rohrer:                      Well, hello and welcome to this, hard to believe, the last Monday of August and also a new week here of Stand in the Gap Today programming. Well, today is also number nine in our series entitled 10 Principles to National Renewal. I’m Sam Rohrer, and today, I’m going to be joined by evangelist Dave Kistler and Dr. Keith Wiebe of the Stand in the Gap and American Pastors Network team.

                                             As we do this program, I also recognized that this series of programs is perhaps more critical than ever as the goal for this presentation of material is to both help us filter through the events of the day so that we can understand these big events that are happening all around us and also, a roadmap for renewal for our nation. Now, without a doubt, I hate to say it, but we are witnessing a nation in collapse, ladies and gentlemen. We are experiencing, I’m going to say, we’ve talked about it before, not will experience, we are experiencing the judgment of God on this land. Why? Because we’ve turned our backs on the God of heaven and His plan for an orderly and blessed society.

                                             Certainly, the unfolding debacle in Afghanistan, the collapse of American respect, it certainly has among the nations of the world, the meteoric ascension of the enemies of the United States in Israel, China, Russia, Iran, Turkey, they’re all hastened by the Biden-led defeat in Afghanistan, and that’s all just but one evidence. Then, you’ve got the unfolding devastation of Hurricane Ida almost 16 years to date after another hurricane of its type. It’s amazing. At the same time this is happening, we have a continuing drought and fires in the West. They’re all themes that need noting, and I note them all right now, not that we’re going to go into them today, but I note them, and we’ll go into them more in other programs because they all fit the consequences of rejecting God’s 10 principles for blessing as God warned in Deuteronomy 28:15. I encourage you to go, and you read that chapter again. It just fits today almost like fingers in a glove.

                                             Well, our theme today as we approach the end of this series and what the Bible identifies and our founders, particularly, William Penn noted in 1682 in his Frame of Government treatise and emphasized in his related writings as well is this. This is number nine, building safeguards into the system. It naturally follows that the other principles, which like building a house, starts with a foundation and then progresses, the walls, and then ultimately the roof, which in this case, in these principles was the roof of prayer, which we’re going to present that in the form of actually principle number 11 because it’s the capstone of God’s plan for a blessed nation. It’s what you finish the job with in these 10 principles to national renewal. That’ll be coming up in a couple of weeks, but again, all of these previous programs, you can find on our website and on our app. A free transcript of each program is available for downloading on our site. I encourage you to go to standinthegapradio.com. Go to the radio tab, and then you’ll find transcript. You can download a transcript of every one of these programs.

                                             Then, at the same time, you’ll also find the programs presented by Pastor Isaac Crockett and me on our Stand in the Gap TV, which is also running this series across the country. You can find it all there. So, I hope that you go there and take advantage of it. Now very, very quick review. The 10 principles for those maybe tuning into this program for the first time, principle one, the foundation of integrity. Two, the nature and the role of God. Three, the nature of man. Four, the purpose of government. Five, the purpose of law. Six, the natural tendency of government. Seven, the role of justice in government number. Number eight last week was the need for involved citizens. Then, today, number nine, the need for safeguards in government.

                                             With that, I want to get moving here with Dave and Keith, and I want to go right here first because all through Scripture, ladies and gentlemen, God identifies the need for safeguards. In all those cases, those safeguards are for the protection of people, in some cases from their own selves. Certainly, it’s for protection from others as individuals. It’s also though protection from evil people who occupy positions of divine authority but who, denying God’s requirements, subvert the purpose for government from that of enacting justice and then use the sword of government as Romans 13 talks about rather than to enact justice but to precipitate the cause of evil.

                                             Dave, very quickly for you and Keith, but this first aspect here. Define if you would a safeguard as it applies, we’re talking today. Then, give a biblical example of personal safeguards or fences or walls that God calls out for us that we can help get our thinking going in the right direction here.

Dave Kistler:                      You bet Sam. In fact, let me give a definition that comes from Webster’s dictionary. This is a modern definition. A safeguard is a step taken to protect someone or something from something that’s undesirable. So, a safeguard is to protect an individual or to protect something from something undesirable happening.

                                             Let me give two examples. In the book of Philippians 1:9, Paul said this. “And this, I pray that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment.” In another words, if you think of love as a river, there’s banks on either side of the river that keep love in check, and those two banks are knowledge and judgment. The word judgment means discernment, but perhaps one of the greatest passages that talks about safeguards is Proverbs 4:23 where the Scripture says, “Keep your heart with all diligence,” or safeguard your heart with all diligence for out of it, out of your heart are the issues of life. So, we’ve got to guard our hearts from those things that would be detrimental to us or to anyone else.

Sam Rohrer:                      Excellent, Dave. Keith, to you, a biblical illustration. Dave gave a personal illustration. Give us something from Scripture, a societal or national safeguard to be undertaken.

Keith Wiebe:                     Well, national safeguard is necessary because of the safeguards that individuals need. We have witnessed in our own nation in recent history, cities on fire, burning from looting and from rioting. Our nation has laws that define the protection of personal property. That is a biblical concept. It’s a protection that my property is to be protected from the excesses of others.

                                             When we saw them looting and then government officials just explaining it all away and the whole system of checks and balances, protection of personal property individually that extends to nationally, it just all broke down. As a result, we had chaos.

Sam Rohrer:                      Keith, excellent on that. Ladies and gentlemen, we just described now the need for safeguards. Our founders, William Penn … I again encourage you. You can look up and get his, what he called it, civil government, 1682 Frame of Government. He talks about a lot of these … He does not list them out one, two, three, four, five, but they are embodied there and so our other founders identify them, but they talked specifically about you have to have safeguards in place. If God allows you to raise up a nation that follows God’s commands, you have to have in place safeguards. We just explained the definition, protect you from something that is not good. When we come back, we’re going to talk next about the reason you have to have safeguards.


Segment 2:

Sam Rohrer:                      Well, you’re listening to Stand in the Gap Today. I’m Sam Rohrer accompanied today by Dave Kistler and Keith Wiebe, and this is now principle number nine in our 10 principles to national renewal. The theme today is building safeguards into the system. We just defined safe guards in the last segment. Dave gave an example of what Scriptures talks about the reasons for personal safeguards in our own individual lives, and Keith gave an example about the need for it societally and nationally, and that’s all through Scripture. We’re going to take and more fully break this out.

                                             Again, for those who’re just listening, we’re doing this because it comes off the pages of Scripture. Our founders, particularly William Penn, I’m highlighting a lot of the writings that he did, but then as it expanded to other founders, identified these principles, and they incorporated all of these into their thinking when they came to this country. The pilgrims came at 1620, the Puritans 1630, and then William Penn wrote this in 1682. All of the events that followed all built, well, they viewed it as building a house, and they knew that unless the Lord build a house, they labored in vain that build it. They wanted to build a new nation.

                                             They went to God’s word and said, “How do you build a new nation?” Out of that came a certain set of principles. We’re walking through those principles. They were God’s promise for blessing. They followed them. God blessed, but God also says, “You’d better do them because if you don’t, it’s to your own peril.” Now, we have an America that’s walked away from these things, so what do we do? We better find out what it was that we had that we’ve given up, and if God, in His mercy, so listens what we need to put back into place, and that is the reason for and the why I’ve termed this 10 principles to national renewal.

                                             That creation, God created all things, and He proclaimed them good, but when the fall occurred, where sin entered the world, precipitated by a real live devil and all of creation was then marred, well, all that God created then at that point began to die and sin and the hearts of mankind, now depraved from birth began to work against the plan of God. So, God had to build in safeguards to prevent the natural culmination of sin, which he later defined as death, chaos, rebellion, ugliness, misery and despair and more.

                                             So, God often used the pictures of walls and fences, boundaries and limitations as safeguards within society that if followed, would lead to life and blessing as recorded throughout Scripture. In Deuteronomy 28:1 and 2, God told His people of Israel, which was the model nation, He said, ” Fear me. Keep my commandments, and I’ll pour out blessing so enormous, they will literally overtake you. You will not be able to handle all my blessings.” He said, “But if you reject and violate my commandments, my safeguards, I then will turn the blessings to cursing, and they will overtake you, and as a nation, you will collapse, and you will fall in disgrace in the eyes of other nations. You will fall from being the head, and you will become the tail.”

                                             All right. So, here’s the question. What are the reasons for the safeguards? Why is it that we have to build in safeguards? So, Dave, in a previous program, actually, principle number three, the nature of man, you and Gary and I were together at that point. We unveiled the impacts of the sinful and depraved nature of mankind. You responded in that program to the issue of describing the impact of the nature of man and how this reality caused God to come up with a concept of government and authority to help restrain these things. So, in this context, looking back to that, now looking to the safeguards, why is understanding the nature of man as it relates to government so critical as to why we now, our founders then, had to think intentionally about building in safeguards into civil government so that justice can occur and God’s blessings to follow? Put that together.

Dave Kistler:                      Well, Sam, let me say this. It all goes back again to what you just referenced, and that is man is sinful and left to himself, his devices are going to bring not only him but anything he touches to ruin. Let me back up to 1789. In the Constitutional Convention, it is reported that when Ben Franklin walked out of that convention, a lady by the name of Mary Powell walked up to him, and she asked Ben Franklin, “Sir, what have you given us? Monarchy or a republic?” Ben Franklin responded in its amazing statement. He said, “A republic, madam, if you can keep it.”

                                             Even though Franklin, as far as we know, was not a born-again believer unless he trusted Christ at the end of his life, and it’s possible he may have because of the influence of great preacher by the name of George Whitfield who was his dear friend, but other than that, we don’t know that he ever lived his life as a follower of Jesus Christ. He was influenced by a lot of other things, but he did have an understanding as did many of our founders, most of our founders, of God, God’s word, His expectations. So, ensconced into that document that they crafted in 1789, the U.S. Constitution were a separation of powers that we’re going to get into in the next segment. So, I don’t want to go there yet, but all of that was a clear understanding, Sam, that those men possessed of man’s innate sinfulness. If we don’t have the protections that come from the principles of God’s word, this new nation that we’re trying to establish will go awry just like an individual will go awry.

Sam Rohrer:                      Dave, I’d like you to take another minute here, why it’s not just critical that a group of people sitting down at one point in time, happening to agree on a direction and though people may have the best intentions, the nature of man will take it awry and why you actually have to build something specifically into the structure as we’re talking about.

Dave Kistler:                      I think what we’re watching happen in our country right now, we were having a little bit of a conversation before the program started about how we have the safeguards. They were put in place by the framers of the constitution, but man, none of those safeguards are operating according to the prescription the constitution gives. Of course, the constitution, those principles come directly from the pages of Scripture. So, man is on a bent away from God to do his own thing even when safeguards were there. Well, we’re seeing the outcome of rejecting of those safeguards at work currently within the United States of America. I know we’ll flesh that out more in the next segment.

Sam Rohrer:                      Wow, we really are, Dave. Ladies and gentlemen, we’re going to talk about that specific point in the last segment, which I don’t think you want to miss, but Keith, let me go to you. In principle number six, the natural tendency of government, you and Gary, I think, were with me at that point. In that program, you gave commentary on the two major tendencies of government that I’d like you to take and repeat right now because it lays down again, in addition to the depravity of man, the character nature of government itself, why we have to have safeguards. Build those up please. Remind us.

Keith Wiebe:                     Well, Sam, there are two of those. One is that government instinctively seeks to consolidate power, to gather power to itself. Second, it seeks then as a result of that, is that it is replacing God. Let’s go back to number one. It seeks to consolidate power that it needs to be controlled. Our constitution declares that we are to have government of the people by the people for the people. It’s not the people for the government. It is the government for people.

                                             We see the government even in the current COVID crisis whether they are doing it by design or whether it is just the natural result of fallen men trying to govern without God in the picture, they’re taking to themselves the decision making power that citizens ought to make about how to respond to a COVID crisis, how to handle our own private property, how to handle the education of our children. In the process of that, they end up seeking to replace God. The Tower of Babel is just a key illustration of this in defiance of God’s command to spread out, fill up, multiply, replenish the earth, the dominion mandate. Instead, they were consolidating themselves together. We will become like God taking God’s place that God intended to have in their lives, all the results, Sam, of the curse of sin that makes man instinctively, innately selfish, always with a propensity to go in the wrong direction.

Sam Rohrer:                      Keith, you laid that out extraordinarily well. Ladies and gentlemen, as I’m thinking, listening to Dave and Keith talk here, one person by them self, because of the nature of our heart, will always lead to doing that, which naturally, they won’t lead to doing that which is good. We lead naturally to do that which is evil because we’re born that way. I mean, you can’t change it. It’s a natural law, but when you take and you put multiple people together in a body, an organization, an authority structure, civil government, you put them all together, now you take a lot of these same people, same tendencies, and you put them together, and you give them what Romans 13 calls the sword, the power to force people to do things. Then, you have the tendency of government to say, “We want to tell everybody what to do.” Consolidate power and because they think they’re so significant and proud, they say, “Hmm, you know what? Who needs God? We’re God.” That’s the other tenancy of government. That’s what Dave and Keith just laid out.

                                             Now, when we come back, we’re going to break out a little further what our founders specifically called out, the idea of checks and balances and the separation of authority. Believe it or not, where did this idea come from? From God himself, and we’ll build that out and show you exactly how God models this Himself.


Segment 3:

Sam Rohrer:                      Well, welcome back to Stand in the Gap Today. Again, we’re in the middle right now of principle number nine, talking about the need for safe guards to be built into civil government. If God is to take and bless a nation, civil government representing the framework of what God has established to help man not to kill himself effectively, we have to know certain things. Our founders called out certain principles. We’re in number nine right now.

                                             Just a reminder to you that if you have been with us throughout this series, we only have a couple of more principles that we’re going to take and put together, but you can find all of these on our website. Encourage you to go there. You can sort for … Put in the word principle. You’ll probably bring it up. There will ultimately be 11 when we’re done with this, but you can pull down for free right now off of the website, standinthegapradio.com, a free transcript of each of these programs. Sometimes, reading it is actually really helpful even as you may listen to it, but you can also find all of these on our app. Download and have access to them as well.

                                             If you’ve not written to us recently, I would encourage you to do so. I have been thrilled to death. Not to death. That’s not quite … I have been thrilled to life. Let’s put it … I’ve been thrilled to life to hear so many great comments from people, both in letters and people stopping, going into a store or just at church or anywhere out, people coming up and saying, “Boy, oh boy, the programs have been so wonderful. Thank you, thank you, thank you.” Well, we need your prayers. We need your financial support. Let me ask you really seriously. If God is blessing you through this, bless us with what God has blessed you with. You can do that in your prayers. You can do that in your financial giving, and you can do all of that on our website, standinthegapradio.com, and tell a friend. Really tell a friend about what is happening here on Stand in the Gap Today.

                                             Okay. One of the wonderful realities of God’s plan for people and by extension, families, and then by extension, society and the church is that when God says, “Fear me, and keep my commandments,” that He never asked the impossible or requires people to create something out of the blue. He doesn’t do that. God has given us all we need, and it’s all in His word. All of God’s commands, all of His plan of redemption, all of His requirements for blessing and all of His warnings for judgment are totally clear. They’re defined. Like His character and His nature, they are unchanging. They are predictable. Like the nature and the role of God Himself, totally consistent.

                                             God never requires of us anything that he Himself does not first emulate. If we’re to be like Christ, well, all right. If we are to model the person of God, which we are, we have to know who He is. He’s told us. So, Keith, in principle number two of this series, we talked about the nature and the role of God and all of these pieces connect together. We talked about that, and William Penn, the founders, they did too because they manifested a fear of God. They believed that if they kept His commandments and followed His plan, He would bless this new nation. So, in the concept of safeguards is the principle of checks and balances. Can you build out this concept and how the nature and the role of God and the Godhead, for example, provides for us the model as God Himself originated?

Keith Wiebe:                     I certainly can, Sam. God is one. We know that. He is God. He is Creator. He is Redeemer. He is described as God, but He is also a God in three persons, God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. God functions in each of those persons in a different way with a different provision for us. It was God the Son who sacrificed and gave Himself on the cross, and God was pleased, the Bible says in incredible language. God was pleased to press his own son even into submission. The Holy Spirit empowers us, the in-filling and dwelling of the Holy Spirit to give us power to live life God’s way.

                                             In the same way, our constitution defines a government that is whole. It is unified. It accomplishes all that needs to be done, but it does so following God’s nature in three parts. We have a legislative, judicial, we have also the executive of the government. The problem we’re facing today is they’re not doing what God designed them to do. The legislative refuses to legislate. The judiciary is taking upon themselves the role of legislating when that is not their role. The executive, our own president in recent days, even signing an executive order that he said on its face, it’s not even constitutional. So, we have whole thing kind of blown up in our face, the whole system of checks and balances out the window when those checks and balances were given to us by God to give us order, to give us peace, to give us prosperity, to give us fulfillment. We’re lacking all of those things because we’ve thrown God’s order out the window.

Sam Rohrer:                      Keith, I’m going to go to Dave here in just a second and talk about the separation of powers. You’ve touched on it a bit, but I want to go back to one thing because within the Godhead, you’ve talked about God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, unified in purpose. They are God. We can’t explain it fully, but one of the things we’ve talked about even in government and the authority structure is that those in positions of authority must voluntarily submit themselves to the higher authority. That made me think while you’re describing this that Jesus Christ Himself to whom God has delegated all authority still submits Himself to God the Father in a way that, ladies and gentlemen, we know Jesus Christ returned soon, but Jesus Christ himself doesn’t know the time exactly. Who’s He waiting for? God the Father to tell Him, but they’re all God. I can’t explain it, but it’s the perfect example of voluntary submission within the concept of authority as delegated and created by God Himself.

                                             That’s how our founders picked up and began to look at it. Dave, let me go here in the remaining time in the segment because within the concept of safeguards as identified by our founders is the concept of separation of powers, not just the checks and the balances, how one works with the other and so forth, but there is literally a defined separation of powers, or we could say authority. Keith, you explained what that was in the program early on as well, but tell us how this works itself out. Define it and how God models this perfectly.

Dave Kistler:                      Well, let me start, Sam, with how God models this in Isaiah 33:22, by the way, a verse in Scripture that the framers of the constitution and the founders of our country, they were very well aware of this passage of Scripture as they were very well aware of most of what the Scripture had to say. Isaiah 33:22 gives three aspects of God’s nature. It says, “For the Lord is our judge. The Lord is our law giver. The Lord is our king. He will save us.”

                                             Now, in that verse in Scripture, you have three distinct delineations of God’s character and God’s nature. The Lord is our judge. There’s your judicial aspect of God’s nature. The Lord is our law giver. There’s your legislative aspect of God’s nature. The Lord is our king. There’s your executive aspect of God’s nature. From that verse in Scripture, Sam, the framers of the constitution established the three branches of government, the judicial branch, the legislative branch, and the executive branch. They even laid them out in order that they deemed to be the most important. The legislative branch is the lawmaking body. The executive branch is the law enforcing body, and the judicial branch is the law interpreting body. All three of those distinct branches of government, the separation of powers between those co-equal branches, all of that, Sam, came directly from the word of God and the framers and founders’ understanding of God’s character and nature.

                                             As Keith so powerfully said, we now have the judicial branch making law. We now have the executive branch making law via executive orders, and so everything is askew because we have not only forgotten the distinct nature of the branches of government. We have certainly cast out God Himself, and so should we be surprised we’re in mass confusion? We should not.

Sam Rohrer:                      Dave, that was well, well stated. Let me ask you this. Because you’ve got the three branches, think of the Declaration of Independence as a document just to demonstrate the modeling of it. Can you identify a couple of these that were referenced right directly in the Declaration of Independence?

Dave Kistler:                      Well, Sam, we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights among these life, liberties and pursuit of happiness, and to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Sam, when you read that opening statement to the Declaration of Independence, you find biblical concepts firmly ensconced in that document. You find these aspects of God’s nature firmly ensconced in that document. Of course, I can’t quote all of the declaration, but Sam, if you read through it, God’s imprint is all over it. I believe and we believe here, of course, at the American Pastors Network that the declaration in the constitution were part A and part B of two documents but really to be communicated as one piece.

Sam Rohrer:                      Absolutely. Ladies and gentlemen, think about this. Who gave us our rights? God the Father. That’s the law giver. Then, they appealed to God the judge to hear the rectitude of the case and through it, they appealed to ultimately, yes, the Holy Spirit of God to take and work and communicate this truth to all, which is the purpose of the Holy Spirit. Together, wow, that’s the model that God laid out. That’s what they put in. When we come back, we’ll talk a bit about why this isn’t happening.

Segment 4:

Sam Rohrer:                      As we move into our final segment now in our emphasis today, principle number nine of the 10 principles to national renewal, it is building safeguards into the system. The first segment, we talked about the need for safeguard. We defined that term, to prevent something bad from happening. We talked in the second segment the reason for safeguards. The reason that it’s necessary because the nature of man tends to evil, not to good. The tendency, when you put together a lot of or more even than one, two or more depraved individuals, government tends to want to consolidate itself and to take even more power and ultimately, to raise its head in pride and say, “Who needs God?” They attempt to become God. That’s what’s happened throughout all of history.

                                             Last segment, we talked about the model for safeguards, the idea that God himself in the Godhead models the checks and the balance in perfect harmony, and then the nature and the character of God as law giver, judge and king demonstrates perfectly the separation of authority but when properly yielded, works in perfect orchestration. That brings us now to the idea of the requirement for safeguards. Okay. We’ve already had some reference to it. Safeguards, our founders recognized the need for it. We’ve already talked about it. I’m looking at this and saying, all right, where does that lead us right now because something is not right? We’ve got a constitution that has it in place. We have a Declaration of Independence that talks about it. Our founders talked about it, but something is not working. What is it?

                                             Well, throughout the Scripture, there is the principle of not just knowing but doing, not just talking but walking, not just professing but possessing. In James 1:22, for example, it says this. Be doers of the word and not hearers only. Get this deceiving your own selves. Remarkably, in another book of the Bible with the same chapter and verse, 1:22, this one then Romans 1:22, it says this, “Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,” thus, in my opinion, linking directly the truth of James 1:22 right together.

                                             Now, the question is, what’s the lesson for us today? How does the principle of authenticity and authority and checks and balances and separation of powers and the depraved sinful nature of man and the tendency of government to consolidate power and replace God, how does that apply to us today as it may relate to personal repentance and the theme of the series, national renewal? Dave, let me go to you first. If you don’t mind, I’d like you to take the verse from James 1:22 that I started with, and explain how deception can occur. It says, “Be doers, not hearers only, deceiving yourself.” How can deception occur when we hear but don’t do and apply it to why we have trouble today even though we have separation of powers theoretically and understand checks and balances?

Dave Kistler:                      Well, Sam, let me quote James 1:22 and the verses that follow. It says, “But be ye doers of the word, not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.” The next verse says, “For if any be a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is likened to a man beholding his natural face in a glass for he beholdeth himself, goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was but who so looketh into the perfect law of liberty and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.”

                                             The analogy is same as to a guy walking up to a mirror like we do every morning. You see there’s something on your face. You need to shave. Maybe there’s some debris or dirt on your face, but you don’t do anything about it. You behold it. You walk away, and very quickly, you forget, “Hey, I needed to take care of that.” You live the rest of your day with something inappropriate on your face because you’ve not done something about it. That is self-deception.

                                             There’s a verse in Scripture in the book of 1 John 1:8 that says, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” So, if we know what’s right but we don’t do what’s right, then we set ourselves up, Sam, for the most insidious of all deceptions, and that’s self-deception because in essence, what we’re doing is denying we have a problem, denying that we have an issue whether it be sin or anything else. Today, Sam, we have the framework for separation of powers, but we’re not doing that. We’re not living in accordance with that. So, in essence, Sam, we have a framework that is still in place, but we’re living contrary to it. So, deception is rampant in our country on every level. So, we’ve got to get back to not just acknowledging that the framework exists. We’ve got to live in accordance with it.

Sam Rohrer:                      Dave, it’s also a reminder, as you’ve been saying through the program, comes us back to the ugly reality of the depraved nature of man, doesn’t it? We say we can see, but we can’t and wow. Keith, let me go to you. Now, I thought you could go to Romans 1:22 passage that I cited, and apply this to why safeguards are necessary and how it applies today. I’m just going to throw this in there if you pick up on them. So, but when I was in public office, as everyone who is in public office on any level right now, they have taken a promise to God. It’s called an oath of office. They promise before the people, and they promise before God to uphold their oath, to protect and defend the constitution and any of them know, and they put their hand up, and they say, “So help me, God.” So, they pull in God. They pull in a promise, but they’re not doing it. So, take Romans 1:22 and apply this, why safeguards are necessary and apply to today.

Keith Wiebe:                     Well, Sam, as Dave so accurately went through the context of James 1:22, we did the same thing in Romans 1:22. The verse before and the verse after ties right into what you were just saying about taking the oath of office and then saying, “So help me, God.” The problem is those who in verse 22 claimed to be wise but became fools is according to verse 20, verse 21, they did not honor God as God or give thanks to Him.

                                             Even those like Benjamin Franklin, whom you cited, who we don’t know really had a personal relationship with Christ but yet, he honored the fact that there was a God in heaven who was involved in the affairs of men. Then, the second thing in the verse following going to verse 23, they then exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling immortal man. They went from worshiping the Creator to worshiping the creation. Therefore, we begin to manage stuff and things and the events, failing to see how they all might fit into the overall purpose of God, in fact, going so far in our culture and so tragically so as to actually say that any person who says that he or she is honoring God or worshiping God even in the exercise of public office, well, they are really confusing the matter of church and state. They’re not confusing it at all. They are just failing to honor god as God, worshiping the creation rather than the Creator.

Sam Rohrer:                      Ladies and gentlemen, Deuteronomy 28:1 and 2, God says, “Fear me. Keep my commands, and I’ll pour out so many blessings. You can’t handle it.” Our founders knew that. To the best of their abilities, they did it, and America became a shining city on a hill. So many blessings, we couldn’t handle them, but then in verse 15 of that chapter, God says, “But if you forsake me, if you don’t do my commandments, I’m going to turn all of those blessings into cursing, and they will overtake you. You’ll no longer be the head. You’ll be the tail. You’ll no longer be a lender. You’ll be a borrower. Your food supply will be short. Your money will be worthless. You will fall in prestige from the most respected in the world to those when you cry out for help, no one comes to help you.”

                                             Do we see it today? Ladies and gentlemen, where are you in this? Are you a hearer only or a doer? It starts with each of us. I pray this program will be used of God to challenge each of our hearts. It certainly has challenged mine, and hope us all, as we look in the mirror, we walk away changed. Thanks for being with us today and best of your abilities, ladies and gentlemen, stand in the gap for truth. Embrace it, pursue it, and we will see you back tomorrow.