This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program originally airing on October 13, 2022. To listen to the program, please click HERE.

Gary Dull:                           Well, greetings to each and every one of you in the precious name of our wonderful Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and welcome to another edition of The Stand in the Gap Today radio program. I’m Gary Dull, and thank you so very, very much for the pleasure of your company. I think that most of you probably realize that October is Pastor Appreciation Month, when congregations all across America are encouraged to express their appreciation to their pastors for the ministry they perform. Now, expressing appreciation to your pastor is a wonderful thing to do once a year, but it is also something that individual members of the congregation should do throughout the entire year.

Now, to the glory of God, I’ve got to say that I’ve served as a pastor for over 48 years, and I realize that even though most members of a congregation do appreciate their pastors, for the most part, pastors rarely here and expression of appreciation. They seldom hear someone come up to them and say, “Pastor, thank you for the ministry you perform to me and to our congregation.” That’s sort of rare thing to take place. Now. Let me be clear at the outset here. Any pastor who is truly called by God into the ministry does not perform his ministerial duties in order to get the praise of the people.

Pastors are called by God into a special ministry and they do what they do as the Lord leads them, knowing that their first responsibility is to please The Lord Jesus Christ, and then to lead the congregation as The Lord directs him. It’s a good thing for church members to express their appreciation to their pastors. My question is, have you done that recently with your pastor? Along with expressing appreciation to your pastor, I think it’s important and very essential that you as a member of the congregation and the congregation as a whole. Pray for their pastor on a regular basis.

Now, today in the program, I have with me two men who have been involved in pastoral ministry. One of the fellows is yet young in the pastoral ministry, and the other has a number of years under his belt as a pastor. Today, we’re going to talk about what a pastor is and how the congregation should respond to him. My two guests are individuals who both have been on with me in the past. The young pastor is Micah Clouse, who serves as the pastor of the Salem Church in Williamsburg, Pennsylvania. Micah grew up in the church that I serve here in Altoona, and has actually served as an intern with me as well as youth pastor for a period of time.

The more senior pastor is Pastor Tim Allen, who has served congregations, but currently is the representative and Church Aid Minister of The Way of Truth Ministries, which is a ministry I founded in 1989 and currently serve as President and General Director. Men, I want to welcome you back to Stand in the Gap Today.

Micah Clouse:                   Good to be here. Thanks for having us.

Tim Allen:                           Thank you.

Gary Dull:                           Well, Tim, let me start with you. A person does not become a pastor just because he feels like it or because he wants a job. He becomes a pastor because he has sensed the call of God into the ministry. I’m wondering if you would explain to our listeners what the call into the pastor of ministry really looks like from the Biblical perspective? Is it really necessary?

Tim Allen:                           Well, it is certainly necessary. I would say first and foremost, the call of God is God ordaining someone for that purpose of ministry. 1 Timothy 1:12, Paul tells Timothy that God is the one. Jesus Christ is the one that called him and appointed him into this area of service. I would say secondly that there has to be a personal desire, and 1 Timothy 3:1, we are told the man who desires the office of a bishop desires a good work. There needs to be a personal desire there, and he also needs to have two other qualifications I would say. One is he would have the public recognition of, in Timothy’s case it was Paul. In other places, you would have the church assembly recognizing that there are men of leadership that are eminently qualified.

You would have people that would see this individual has something special, and the something special that I think really stands out above all else is they have a gift for teaching. I believe that when we read in the list of qualifications of a pastor, when it says that he is apt to teach, it means that he is not only able to teach, but quite likely given the opportunity, before he realizes it, he’s starting to teach people just because it is in him. God has caused that to be the case in his life.

Gary Dull:                           It’s really more than a job.

Tim Allen:                           Oh, absolutely.

Gary Dull:                           It’s something that God leads that individual to do.

Tim Allen:                           Right, and it’s a gift that The Lord gives him to be able to carry out that task.

Gary Dull:                           I think that that’s something that many don’t understand. I think that there are people in the Church who think that the pastor’s just a hireling, but rather, he is called by God to do a specific work. Micah, you’re yet a young man and you’ve just started serving the Church out there the last couple of years. You may remain there the rest of your life, and that would be tremendous if you did, but that’s up to The Lord. My question to you is, how do you know for certain that God has called you into the pastoral ministry?

Micah Clouse:                   Well, Pastor Gary, speaking for myself and how to know for certain that you’re called into the ministry, one thing is this. God has not prevented it. God has not prevented it, but rather has blessed it. Now, that’s not alone enough evidence because there are many who may feel called into pastoral ministry, but don’t meet the Biblical qualifications, but beyond that, as Pastor Tim mentioned, I desire it. That comes from Paul’s letter to Timothy where Paul says if someone desires the work or the office of a bishop, he desires a good thing, and so God works through internal and external means, the outward and the inward.

He has not prevented it, but blessed it. I desire it and also I have brothers around me who have confirmed it, and this is very important because Christianity and pastoral ministry is not a lone wolf venture. We go into it under the direction and the help of our brothers around us and those older than us in the faith. Beyond that, pastors are called shepherds, and so think about the work of a shepherd. A shepherd knows that he’s a shepherd because the sheep listen, and also they will follow. Then, a shepherd knows he’s a shepherd because when there’s a threat, he’s able to guard off and fight the wolves, and so pastoral shepherding is the same.

I can know that God has called me into this because I’ve made the right friends, the flock. I’ve also made the right enemies, wolves. That’s what a pastor is. One pastor says this, “Wolves want you to follow them. Shepherds want you to follow Jesus.” Outwardly and inwardly, God confirms those men that he calls into the ministry through a desire, and then also by the confirmation of Christians around him.

Gary Dull:                           You made an interesting statement there that when a person is a pastor. as the shepherd, the flock will follow him. We could be talking to some pastor today who’s saying, “Wow, my church just does not follow me.” What’s the problem there? Is he called? Or is the church out of the Will of God?

Micah Clouse:                   Well, he could of course be called. I mean, think about Jesus in John 6. He’s preaching to a huge crowd. He had just fed them, and after His teaching about His life and His work and that His call to discipleship, everybody leaves him except his 12 disciples. It’s not necessarily a confirmation he’s not called. However, you might have to examine yourself. Why aren’t they following?

Gary Dull:                           Well, those are some good answers, men. Folks, when we come back, we’re going to ask the question, what is a pastor? Now, that might sound elementary and simple to you, but I believe that there are many Christians who really misunderstand what the pastor is according to the Scripture. Stay tuned. We’ll be back right after these messages.


Gary Dull:                           Well, welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, and it’s a delight to have you there by the radio. Today, our theme is, what is a pastor? We want to address that directly from the Biblical perspective during this segment, and as I said when we left in the last segment, that that may be a simple, elementary question, but I really do believe that there are many people who don’t understand what a pastor is from the Biblical perspective. So many times you’ll hear people say, “Well, let the pastor do it. We’ve hired him to do the work.” Well, is that true? Or is that not true?

I want you to think about that as we go throughout this particular segment. You know, personally, I had the opportunity to grow up around pastors. My parents were always very close to our pastors at home. In fact, they visited our house often. Our next door neighbor was a pastor. My best friend was a PK, and many times even our families did things together. The pastors took our family out with them. I mean, we had a lot of time together with pastors and their families.

In addition to that, I had a grandfather who was a pastor for nearly 60 years and I spent a lot of time with him as a child growing up. In fact, he and I often talked about the Word of God and the Church and the ministry and even sermon development. At times, I can recall as a child even going on visitation with my Granddad. Well, after I was saved and since The Lord leading me into the ministry, he took me under his wing and taught me some principles of preaching. At the age of 13, he actually had me preaching in his pulpit.

Because I was close to our pastors for as far back as I could remember, and because I had a grandfather who was a pastor who I was close to, I thought that I understood what a pastor was, but when I took my first pastorate in Washington, D.C., I soon realized that I really did not know too much about what a pastor really is. Oh yes, I was close to pastors and I took the pastor courses in Bible college, but there were many things I missed out on or misunderstood about the pastorate until I became one.

Tim, I want to begin with you here with this question. What is a pastor? The New Testament gives three terms to describe a pastor, including elder, bishop, and pastor. How do those terms differ? How do they compare with each other? How do they compare with each other? How do they describe what a pastor really truly is?

Tim Allen:                           The word “elder” speaks of his position as a Presbytery. That would be a spiritual leader within the Church offering guidance. Bishop, that means he is an episkopos. That means he is an overseer. He’s watching out for the congregation making sure that they’re being cared for. Then, thirdly as pastor, I think this is really touching on the heartbeat of what a pastor’s ministry ought to be, and that is to shepherd and care for the flock as if they themselves have a personal investment in the sheep of the flock. In Jeremiah, it’s said that, 23:1, “Woe unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture sayeth The Lord.” From that, I think we can learn that the number one job of the shepherd is to keep his sheep alive. He sustains them and supports them. He protects them from predators.

Then, secondly, the shepherd keeps the sheep assembled. They’re not supposed to be wandering in circles or drifting off on their own. He’s supposed to keep them together going in the same direction. Then, thirdly, the shepherd who keeps the sheep, he is the one who is authorized by The Great Shepherd. God is the one. They are His people, and so we are actually undershepherds in a sense, and so we are the ones that are caring for them and watching over them and keeping them going on the path that The Lord wants them.

Gary Dull:                           I remember when I took the second church I pastored, which was done in Lebanon, Pennsylvania, that the chairman of the deacons there always referred to me as the undershepherd, and I thought that that was very interesting. You mentioned that there, and I believe that that’s very Biblically correct even as it relates to these three terms, elder, pastor and bishop. Well, Micah, taking a closer more practical look at those terms, how do they really work out together in the overall ministry of the Church?

Micah Clouse:                   Well, great question. Anytime that we look at the New Testament, we know that the Old Testament is our key and our guide to better understand because in Christ, the Old Covenant has come to its fulfillment. When we’re looking at terms like elder, bishop, and pastor, think of Jethro’s words to Moses when he said that Moses ought to appoint elders over tens, elders over hundreds, and elders over thousands.

Pastors, bishops, and elders, along with deacons, are to work together in the Body of Christ and for the sake of Christ and his bride. Whenever there are differences and disputes, you can go to an older man in the faith like a bishop, who could be like a third party to judge in matters of doctrine and help churches in disputes. We see that all throughout Church history. In many ways, pastors themselves need pastors.

Gary Dull:                           That’s interesting. I don’t think that the average person recognizes that. You know that? Stop to think about that, pastors themselves need pastors. Tim, what do you think about that? You might be a bishop based upon what Micah said here, but-

Tim Allen:                           At some level, there always has to be accountability. I think every pastor realizes he is first and foremost accountable before The Lord, but he has to also do so in the context of the local church body. He would have other leadership alongside of him as peers, but he can be accountable and to them. Then, I think it’s also advisable for a pastor to have a coach or a mentor or someone who is seasoned and experienced and is able to give some guidance and counsel and offer help along the way, so yeah, absolutely.

Gary Dull:                           I think so. I mean, that’s an interesting thing there that Micah brought up. Tim, I’m going to stick with you here for a minute. You grew up as a PK, that is a pastor’s kid, but what did you find out about being a pastor after you took your first pastorate? That being a child in the parsonage and going to Bible college did not prepare you for?

Tim Allen:                           I watched my Dad grow up and he involved us in ministry as much as he felt he could. I could see that he spent a lot of time doing a lot more administration even than the shepherding of the flock, and so I had an inkling there that there was a whole lot of sort of mundane details that a pastor would typically be in charge of. I didn’t realize the extent of that because as much as a pastor might want to spend 40 hours a week in his study researching for a sermon, the reality is there are many other needs within the church. Sometimes it’s visitation, sometimes it’s witnessing to people getting out, having evangelistic opportunities.

The reality is every pastor has to deal with the paperwork and planning ahead on a calendar and helping communications within the body to make sure that events happen and that all of the necessary people have the resources that they need and are in communications with each other so that everything all works together. I think most pastors have more on their plate regarding those areas than what other people recognize.

Gary Dull:                           You know, and I started that in the pastoral ministry. I saw to it that I was in my study every morning at 5:00, did not take a call, did not take a visitor until noon. I would love to get back to that. Micah, in your term as pastor, and you’re just young in the ministry, yet you have learned a lot and there’s no doubt that you have a lot more to learn. What has been the most difficult thing that you’ve encountered in ministering to the spiritual needs of your congregation in the period of time that you’ve been involved in that ministry?

Micah Clouse:                   Yeah, very good question. I think Pastor Tim will go into this a little bit later about the qualifications for a pastor that are given in Scripture. When you’re looking at the qualifications for a pastor or an elder at the top of the list, basically to summarize them all, is that he is to be a model father and husband because the Church is the bride of Christ, and within that bride are the children of God The Father. A pastor or an elder is, on a small scale, to be a model of what it is to be a family man.

He’s to have faithful children and he’s to have his home in order and so that’s why the Puritans used to say that every man is like the pastor of his house. What goes on in the home is always harder, I would say, and even primary over the church home. That’s why it’s a qualification Paul gives by the inspiration of the spirit. If a man can’t father or be a husband, the Scripture would tell us don’t let him touch God’s children or Christ’s bride.

Gary Dull:                           You know, that’s a good point to bring out, and I remember years ago when I was at Bible college, we had a fellow, he was the dean of students, and I won’t give his name because there may be someone who might know him because we reach into the area over the radio where he is from. He was a tremendous pastor, but he had one son. He had five children and he had one son who was rebellious toward the Word of God. He felt that because of that one son who was rebellious toward the Word of God, he did not meet the qualifications as a pastor, so he stepped out of the pastoral ministry and became the dean of students at the Bible college in which I attended and did a tremendous job in that ministry. Would be to God that more pastors would have that type of integrity. You know, Tim, you talked about the qualifications of the pastor. That would be tremendous if pastors recognized that responsibility that Micah brought up.

Tim Allen:                           Mm-hmm. That would be. There’s so many things that they have to do, but amongst those, I think that’s probably one of the ones that a pastor feels maybe the most guilty about and he stands up there. I was actually at a conference this week and I said, “You know, you guys get to see my children be angels, but trust me, there’s another side to them.” The reality is every child has a sin nature. Even when they are converted, they may be a child of God, but there’s still sin that takes place. Us being able to shepherd them helps us to even better be able to shepherd God’s flock.

Gary Dull:                           By the way, I was listening to that service on radio and I heard you say that, so I would testify you said it. Well, folks, our time is about up for this segment, but when we return, we’re going to discuss something that folks do not really comprehend unless you served in the pastoral ministry, and that is, what really does a pastor do? Stand by, we’ll talk about that after this break.


Well, welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. I’m Gary Dull, and along with me are Tim Allen and Micah Clouse, both of which have served in the pastoral ministry. Micah is currently a pastor and, of course, Tim is involved with the Way of Truth Ministries as a pastoral or church aid minister, so he’s very close to being a pastor. Our theme today is simply, what is a pastor? Before we proceed, I’m going to ask our Program Producer, Mr. Tim Schneider, to share some exciting information about our ministry here at Stand in the Gap Today. Timothy, wake up. It’s your turn, sir.

Tim Schneider:                  I am awake, Gary, and my eyes are wide and bushy-tailed and I am ready to go. Thank you so much for this opportunity. Want to let you know about a couple of things happening behind the scenes, and, two great websites. We encourage you to check them out. Over there, you can find lots of articles. You can find other resources, TV, radio, archives, a bunch of different things, and Also, we encourage you to sign up for our E-newsletters. We will not inundate your inbox with spam, but we’ll send you information that you might find useful.

One of the really great things weekly we normally send out is an email recapping the previous week’s radio programs, and you even get to read a transcript of a previous week’s program and hear some clips. We call them podcast Q&As. That letter is sent out every week in E-newsletter form, and also every couple of months we’ll send you our Prayer Request email also out to your inbox, so please sign up for that newsletter over there at

Also, you’ve heard about it, we’ve talked about it all this year and we’re going to continue to talk about it till at least the end of the year, and I think we’re going to talk about it into 2023 from my understanding. Letter to America from God, if you’ve not seen this video, check it out, Also, while you’re over there, we have some great resources that you can check out. The Return to God Journey Guide: 11 Principles for National Renewal, and also our brand new illustrated book that’s kind of like a companion to the DVD and the video. It’s called A Letter to America: God’s Call To Repentance and Renewal. Check all of that out at a I was told today to keep it brief, so that’s as brief as I can keep it, Gary, so back to you.

Gary Dull:                           Excellent job, Tim. I certainly do appreciate what you do and folks, we need to remind you that without Tim, you would not hear us, so be thankful under The Lord for what Tim does here at Stand in the Gap. So far, ladies and gentlemen, we’ve discussed the call of the pastor and what a pastor is, but now let’s address the question, what does a pastor do? Now, as I mentioned in the last segment, I grew up around pastors and even had a grandfather who was a pastor, but there were many things I did not know about what a pastor does until I became one. I want the state something here, not in the boastful way, but in reality and that is this. Listen to this carefully. If you have never served in the pastoral ministry, you may think you know what a pastor does, but there is probably a lot you are missing because you have not yet been there.

You know, that’s something that we’ll preach, and I’m not going to elaborate upon it, but I want you to think about that. It’s been said that since a pastor does not punch a time clock and does not necessarily have a boss looking over his should watching and evaluating his work, that a pastor could become lazy and cut corners in ministry. I want us to consider a few questions as it relates to really, what does a pastor do? Tim, I want to start with you. What are the Biblical qualifications of a pastor? If we are to understand what a pastor is to do, we must know what his qualifications are. Is there any room or reason to vary from these qualifications in any way, shape, or form?

Tim Allen:                           Before I answer those questions, I just want to comment on the possibility that a pastor could become lazy and cut corners in his ministry. That certainly is a possibility, and sometimes there are people that find themselves in that position, but they are not called to it. I would venture to say that any pastor who is called to it probably puts in 60 hours-plus on any given week and they are far more guilty of being work-driven more than ministry, or even as we mentioned before, family-driven. I really think keeping family key in the ministry, of recognizing how vital they are to being free to minister as God expects them to, they better keep that a top priority.

As far as the Biblical qualifications go, we go to 1 Timothy 3, and I had already mentioned in verse one, if a man desires the office of a bishop, he desires the office of a bishop, he desires a good work. Then, it after that that a bishop must be, these are requirements, they’re not suggestions, they are the bare minimum. If we are not meeting these, then the possibility is strong that a person should not be considered a candidate for pastoral ministry.

It goes like this. He is blameless. That means he is free of any legal charges. He is the husband of one wife. He is vigilant. He is sober-minded. He has a serious about it and a gravitas where he recognizes the importance of his position and he takes his job seriously. He is of good behavior. He is not misbehaving. He’s not clowning around. He is taking his job, as I said before, seriously. He is given to hospitality. That means that he is willing to have people into his home, whether it’s for a meal or even to entertain strangers, maybe given them place overnight. That needs to be given for him.

Apt to teach, I had mentioned this earlier in the previous segment, that he is able to teach, so he is fully qualified. He has the ability in a very obvious way. Other people will recognize that, but I believe that the word choice of being apt to teach also indicates that there’s an inclination and a desire, just a natural bent towards teaching anyways. Not given to wine. The word “addicted” is used in other places in the Bible, It’s not saying not addicted to wine, it’s saying not given to wine, so there should be a freedom that there’s not a desire that is in him that makes him want to seek it out.

No striker, that means he’s not violent or abusive. Not greedy of filthy lucre, filthy lucre means deceitfully gained money, and if he’s not greedy for that, then he’s in the clear on that. What you’re going to see in a minute, there’s another thing that kind of parallels that. He is to be patient. That means he’s long suffering with people, Not a brawler. He’s not looking for a fight. He’s not contentious, he is not argumentative. He’s seeking peace, and I would say when it says in Matthew 5 about people being peacemakers, he ought to be a model of that.

We mentioned the filthy lucre before. Here he says not covetous, and that’s one of The Ten Commandments, so I would say that the desire that everybody naturally has to seek more material gain or to have a higher level of income, that should not play into his desires. It shouldn’t even be there. One that rules his own house, well, and we’ve already discussed that a little more. Having his children in subjection with all gravity. I think that that’s one that oftentimes we have to seek counsel and assistance with it. Not a novice, and he must have, here we the worst “must,” again, he must have a good report of them which are without. He needs to have a sterling reputation in the community.

Gary Dull:                           Very good testimony there. That passage in 1 Timothy 3 is extremely important, ladies and gentlemen, in understanding the qualifications of the pastor, but let’s go one step beyond and look at the job description of the pastor. Micah, does the Bible give a job description for the pastor? If so, where? If it does, what does it say?

Micah Clouse:                   Absolutely. The Lord never leaves us without His Word, and here’s some descriptions of what a pastor is to do. Granting that he meets all those qualifications, he’s to feed the flock. He’s to take oversight. Peter writes in 1 Peter 5, Acts 6:4 also tells us the pastor is to give himself continually to prayer and the ministry of the Word and having these descriptions of what he’s to do, the qualifications that he’s to meet basically means this. When all might be in a slumber, the pastor is to be awake. When distractions abound, the pastors to be single-minded and stable. When the world is trying to catechize people through debauchery and sin, the pastor is to hold up a Bible and say, “Here now is the Word of the true and living God,” and this needs to be said. Pastors need to be men. That’s in 1 Timothy 3.

Gary Dull:                           Amen.

Micah Clouse:                   Bishop is to be the husband of one wife. This needs to be said because it’s being so twisted and crooked in our day. More particularly, the pastor is to be a man who is married to one wife with faithful children. The husband of one wife. Yes, a man, and not just one biologically, but Biblically. I’m not just saying a pastor needs to be a male because there’s a lot of effeminate males, but the pastor is to be a man physically, and in his constitution and structure. If not physically and spiritually, at least spiritually, the pastor is to be a man who spiritually has the broadest shoulders, a strong chest, and a galvanized backbone.

Then, having said all of that with those qualifications and job descriptions, the work is to oversee, to care for souls, to represent Jesus Christ The Lord, and his ministry entails Word and the ordinances. He preaches the Word and then he leads the people in taking The Lord’s supper and coming into the waters of baptism.

Gary Dull:                           Wow, that’s pretty clear. Folks, if you didn’t get all of that, why, you might want to watch for our podcast a little bit later on or contact us here and ask for this particular program because that’s a lot of stuff. I will give you passages of Scripture, ladies and gentlemen, that gives those job descriptions that Micah was talking about. You can find them in Acts 6:4, Acts 20:28-35, 2 Timothy 3:1-5, 2 Timothy 3:1-5, and then 1 Peter 5:1-4 among other places. The pastor’s to be a strong man, a strong male, and a strong leader. Right, Micah?

Micah Clouse:                   Amen.

Gary Dull:                           That’s what a pastor’s qualifications are and it’s what a pastor is to do.

Micah Clouse:                   Cowards go to hell. That’s what Revelation says-

Gary Dull:                           Well, that’s what Revelation said. Boy, we got to pick up on that one and run. Well, folks, when we return, we’re going to talk about how a local church congregation should respond to their pastor and why. Stay tuned. We will be back right after this.


Gary Dull:                           Well, welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. It’s a delight to have you there by the radio. By the way, if this program is a blessing to you, we would encourage it to pass it on to others and let them know that we’re on this radio station at this time every day, five days a week, and certainly we would invite others to join us and ask you to invite others to join us. Well, so far in the program today, we’ve talked about the call of the pastor, what a pastor is and what a pastor does, but now we have a very practical and important question for every Christian to consider in this last segment, and it is simply this, how should a local church congregation respond to the pastor and why?

Folks, this is a very important question to consider because many pastors have just been kicked around and knocked down and chewed up and spit out. I’ll tell you what, the church that does that or the church member that does that is really going to answer to God. I believe it. Many Christians have never considered what the Church’s actions and responsibilities should be to their pastors. We’re going to try to summarize those responsibilities this last segment.

Again, Tim, I want to start with you. One passage that is very clear on how a congregation should respond to its pastor is 1 Timothy 5:17-20. There are at least two great principles laid out in that passage. What are those principles?

Tim Allen:                           1 Timothy 5:17-20 says, “Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially they who labor in the Word and doctrine for the Scripture sayeth thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn and the laborer is worthy of his reward.” The first principle is that the elder is worthy of double honor, and it is specifically referring to financially supporting them. Any pastor that is financially supported in a way that would not cause them to go seeking filthy lucre or to have a covetous attitude, you’re really guarding against that by being as generous as you possibly can be and making sure that they are cared for. They ought to be living at the same level at least as what most of the other people in the congregation role. In my humble opinion, that’s obviously not in the Scripture, but I don’t think it’s right or reasonable to think that a pastor should be to subsist on less than what everybody else is making. That’s just a matter of fairness in my estimation.

The second one is against an elder received, not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses then that sin rebuke before all that others may also fear. When there is the possibility that an elder has done something wrong, he is not even to be brought before a court of his own church folk without having at least two or three witnesses present. I would or advise that those would be elders within the church, not just random people, that that would be an opportunity. It says in verse 20, again, “Them that sin rebuke before all that others also may fear.” It’s also not just to be a clandestine behind-closed-doors thing, but it should be done openly so that the fear of God may rest upon the entire congregation.

Gary Dull:                           Okay, and that’s according to 1 Timothy 5:17-20. Micah, there’s another passage of Scripture that talks about the responsibility that a congregation has towards his pastor, and that’s Hebrews 13 in verse 7. What is the principle that’s taught there?

Micah Clouse:                   Sure, let me read it. Hebrews 13:7 says this, “Remember them which have the role over you who have spoken unto you the Word of God whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation, Jesus Christ, the same yesterday and today and forever.” The command there is that the believers are to remember those who rolled over them and spoke to them the word of God. They’re to think about how their lives ended and follow them. When someone obeys God, their life ends in blessing. They pass from this life to the next in peace. Those who are in the flock are to think on that and say, “That is what I want.” He rolled over well and spoke and taught the word of God.

Now, in order to follow this, first and foremost, you have to ensure that the man that you are under is qualified and able to give you a faithful legacy to remember and follow. Otherwise, it’s actually going to be impossible for you follow the command in Hebrews 13. Are you under a man who’s qualified and who’s able to give you a legacy of faithful Christian shepherding? Think, mothers and fathers, is the pastor at your church someone that you want your sons to be like? Is this someone who can take care of the flock in a real way and not expecting perfection? That’s why the very next verse reminds us of Jesus Christ, who alone is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Gary Dull:                           That’s according to Hebrews 13 and verse 7, folks. I’d encourage you to truly consider that, but Tim, I’m going to give you the final word today, as it were. In Hebrews 13:17, we also see the expression of a principle that congregations should keep in mind regarding their pastor. What is that particular principle?

Tim Allen:                           Hebrews 13:17 says, “Obey them that have the rule over you and submit yourselves for they watch for your souls as they that must give account that they may do it with joy and not with grief, for that is unprofitable for you.” The advice to them is that they would listen to those that have the rule over them. Listen to your pastor. It says to obey them. quite honestly and simply, and sometimes that might be a hard thing to swallow.

Obviously, there are some pastors that abuse their positions if they’re going against God’s Word. I don’t believe you have to obey them if they’re telling you to do something that is clearly a violation of Scripture. There have been instances where that’s taken place. Then, it says to submit yourself. There ought to be a humility there where you are giving honor to them and that they are worthy of listening to then, of hearing them out, understand their heart. They are a shepherd, they are a pastor, so they’re caring for you. If you come to them and you’re wanting their opinion on something, hopefully they’re supporting that with Scripture, but realize that every bit of advice that they give you, they’re doing it for your benefit. They’re not seeking for you to just simply be their master.

1 Peter 5 mentions how we are not to be lords over those that are underneath our authority, but you should recognize that these are Godly men and they desire your good and that you would go on with The Lord. That’s their heart, and for that reason, they also are going to be accountable. You’re doing them a favor when you along with them if what they’re doing is not against Scripture. You’re submitting yourself to them. They are caring for your souls. They are on the watch. They are on the alert trying to make sure that nothing will happen to you because we will give an account as pastors. Do that and do it with joy and not with grief, and it will be profitable for you when you do that.

Gary Dull:                           Well, thank you, Tim, and thank you, Micah. Folks, I trust that our discussion on what is a pastor has been beneficial to you today. You know, God in His sovereign design has brought the Church together, and when the pastor in the pulpit and the people in the pew obey God and their individual ministry responsibilities, the church will function according to God’s will and for God’s glory. If either or both the pastor in the pulpit and the people in the pew fail in their individual responsibilities, the local church will not function for the glory of God.

It’s important that each of us seriously consider the things we’ve talked about today as it relates to the pastor, as it relates to the people in the pew so that God will be honored and glorified in and through the ministry of the local church. The local church is a tremendous entity. It’s an institution and it must function according to Biblical principles. That’s what we’ve attempted to portray for you today from the Scripture. We trust that what we’ve done has been able to clarify some things.

In this month of October, I would encourage you to show appreciation to your pastor, but don’t do it just once a year. Do it consistently, and one of the best things you can do for your pastor is to pray for him. On behalf of Micah Clouse, Tim Allen, Tim Schneider, and the entire Stand in the Gap Today team, I’m Gary Dull saying God bless you and keep looking up. Stand for truth where you are and remember, the best is yet to come for Jesus could return again today. Amen.