This program originally aired on a Stand in the Gap Today program originally airing on February 2, 2024. To listen to the program, please click HERE.

Sam Rohrer:                     Hello and welcome to this Thursday edition of Stand in the Gap Today. And this is now our bimonthly constitutional update program where we deal with some headline issue, which we feel impacts our civil freedom. And then, to properly understand that issue, we consider it through the lens of a biblical worldview.

Now as we’re all aware, another widely publicized encounter between police and a citizen occurred in Memphis, Tennessee back on January 7th. By itself, the incident is sad since a man has died as a result. But viewed in the larger perspective of an aggressive culture-wide attack on all police, generally, accompanied by the Marxist led Defund Police initiatives of the last years, I thought it was important to deal with this issue, not to sensationalize it, but to learn from it since what is under attack is not just a police officer, but I think authority, a law in order, and frankly God’s design for government. And not just a few bad police officers.

So today I’ve chosen to engage this topic in two ways. In just a moment, I’m going to bring in a 20 plus year veteran and currently active police officer from here in Pennsylvania. He’s also a Christian. Important combination. His name is Anthony Weaver. He’s also host of the podcast, Diakonos: A Cop’s Calling. Now, I’ll talk with him about how we should view, we all of us should view the recent incident in Memphis in a right way, and establish what the biblical and constitutional purpose for police officers and law enforcement ought to be.

Then in segment three and four, we’re going to bring in constitutional attorney and author and public speaker and our regular guest on this program, David New, as we examine what the Bible, the constitution, and statutory law says about the use of lethal force by law enforcement.

So I encourage you to stay tuned as the way we engage this topic today will likely be most unique and certainly more instructive and practical than anything done, certainly by the controlled media.

The title I’ve chosen for today’s program is this, Good Police/Bad Police: God’s Design for Law Enforcement, and one that I welcome in right now Anthony Weaver.

Anthony, thanks for being with me today here. Anthony, are you there? Can you hear me?

Anthony Weaver:             Yes, I can.

Sam Rohrer:                      Okay, welcome aboard Anthony. Glad to have you on. We’ve got a lot to ask you, so let me get right into it here. As a current police officer, Anthony, your perspective on what happened in Memphis is very, very important. It’s very valid. We want to hear it. But even more important is your perspective as a veteran police officer, 20 years plus, but you’re also a Christian guided by moral principles committed to your constitutional oath. All of those are really critical.

So for the sake of our listeners who may not understand the most recent police event, I’m going to read just a couple of lines from February 1st that appeared yesterday in New York Times about this incident. And ladies and gentlemen, I don’t cite this because it is necessarily accurate. It may be, but I don’t know. But because it is representative of the general narrative that’s in the media right now surrounding the event. Then Anthony, I want to ask you for your overall opinion. So here’s what it said In New York Times yesterday.

“Tyre Nichols, a 29-year-old Black man was beaten by Memphis police officers for roughly three minutes on the evening of January 7, after he was stopped for what the police initially said was reckless driving. The stop escalated into a violent confrontation that ended with Mr. Nichols hospitalized in critical condition. Three days later he died.” Goes on, it says, “Five police officers, all of whom are also Black have been fired and were charged last week with various felonies including second degree murder. Two other Memphis police department officers and two sheriff’s deputies have been taken off duty and three fire department employees have been fired.”

So that was the article. So Anthony, in the short description, there’s a death, five officers fired, but then two other officers, two sheriff deputies total, four more removed from duty, and then three fire department employees fired. So my point is there’s a whole lot more there than meets the eye. So from your perspective as a Christian police officer, kind of walk our listeners through on how they should view events like this as laid out for instance like in this article and instruct our listeners on how we should approach what we think and consider about events like this.

Anthony Weaver:             Absolutely. Yeah. So I think one of the things we need to do is just be really slow to speak about it. When I think of the word and I think of those things that we’re taught in the word, we’re taught to be quick to listen, slow to speak, we’re taught to not slander, we’re taught to not gossip. And ultimately, as you’ve brought up, we don’t know very much about this incident. We have some videos. It appears in those videos that some very evil acts were done by police officers. There’s also evil acts done by the suspect, I’ll point out. But obviously it ended tragically and a person died.

So we have to be careful though how we approach it because we really don’t know a lot about what happened. And there is a lot that has happened that we probably won’t know for many months. We don’t know the cause of death. There has not been an official release of the cause of death by the coroner’s office. We probably don’t have all the video. There’s a lot of confusion about what the actual stop was about.

So like I said, I think it’s important for me, it’s important for those in my profession, it’s important for Christians to be slow to speak and careful how we speak about it so that we can judge it rightly. Obviously, there’s also our call as Christians to be in submission to those authorities who have decided to bring charges on these officers and to charge these officers with second degree murder. And we should as Christians submit to that process, not seeking our own vengeance, not seeking our own agenda, and to kind of piggyback on this and push our own agenda or vengeance, but allow the justice system that God’s established to do its job and to believe that those prosecutors and those detectives who have brought the charges know more about the case than we know, to trust that the jury, when the jury hears this case and sees all the information brought before them, will do their job correctly.

And in addition to that, these police officers, whether they acted evilly or not, are established by God. They’re part of government authority that’s established by God. Now it appears that they acted evilly. And so we should, as Christians, push back against evil, but we need to do it in a respectful way. Again, we need to do it slowly and make sure that we’re judging rightly. And I’m not saying that I support these officers, but what I am saying is that the motives in our own hearts when we respond to these things are just as important as the motives that were in the hearts of those officers. Like what were they doing in those moments? What were they thinking and what were they feeling? We as people should not decide what their motives were and what their heart motives are.

Sam Rohrer:                      And Anthony, that’s a great, great overview. Ladies and gentlemen, as you heard from Anthony Weaver, Christian police officer, follow what scripture says, slow to speak, quick to hear, observe, don’t get caught up in what the media may be driving people to think because it may not be the truth. But it does help us to understand what is the role of a police officer and what does the Bible say? Well, we’re going to talk about that with Anthony in the next segment.

Well, our theme today is this Good Police/Bad Police: God’s Design For Law Enforcement. And we are pricking up off of this event that happened down in Memphis, Tennessee. Tyre Nichols was involved. You’re aware of that. I just read a little bit of a clip from the New York Times yesterday summarizing that. Our special guest here in these first two segments is police officer Anthony Weaver, 20 year plus law enforcement veteran and the host of a podcast entitled Diakonos, so if you understand, you understand what that word means, you’ll explain it in a bit, A Cop’s Calling. That’s the name of his podcast.

Now while the words police, let me just give a little bit of a background here. I did little bit of a study on this, this morning, and Anthony, I’ll be back to you and I want to ask you to do some describing of this in just a moment. But while the words police, law enforcement, sheriff, constitution, executive branch of government, out of which comes the law enforcement part as you know, or similar modern American terms that relate to the broader understanding of police, even though those do not occur in the Bible, those words do not occur in the Bible, the concept of law enforcement and police exist throughout the entirety of scripture.

In fact, the usage of the word police, I found this interesting, that the word police itself, if you go to the dictionary as it would refer, we say now refers to individuals in a law enforcement role, that wasn’t even a legitimate or an official usage of the word police by definition according to 1828 Webster’s dictionary, which really was the official definer of all the words then used that underpin our frame of government now.

In reality, here’s what it means. The word police comes from the Latin word politia and the Greek word city. So the literal definition of police used as a noun, this is the definition, “The government of a city or town, the administration of the laws and regulation of a city or incorporated town or borough.” So police by definition is the entirety of government. Officer though is defined as a person commissioned or authorized to perform any public duty, ostensibly on behalf of this government entity.

So Anthony, with that set up, let me come back here and ask you this. Now, while it’s definitionally inaccurate, let’s put it that way, to refer to individuals as the police, it is accurate to refer to a person in uniform as a police officer since they don’t work autonomously, but as commissioned individuals to carry out or enforce the laws or regulations of a given city or town.

That brings me to the considering of the role, why we might turn a good police officer. And actually, to me when I look at that definition, it actually goes back even before that and asking, well, exactly what is the purpose of good police? It’s actually the purpose of good government. And therefore out of that comes good police officers.

Now that being the case, let me just ask you that. Go to that part. What exactly is the purpose of good police as in a city or local government as we’ve talked about, and take that into perhaps good government, link those together as we talk about this aspect purpose for police and police officers.

Anthony Weaver:             Sure, sure. Yeah, I mean I think first of all we have to recognize that good government, good police is a common grace given to us by God. I mean if we as Christians believe that the hearts of men are set on evil, Jeremiah 17:9 lays that out for us, that our hearts are deceitfully wicked, then God has given us a common grace by establishing good government and good police officers within government as a common grace to try to constrain the evilness that we see on our streets.

And so a good police officer, good government should be seeking the welfare of their city, of their jurisdiction in which they serve. A good police officer is one who recognizes that he himself is under authority, under authority of government above them, under authority of God. And a good police officer also recognizes that they are there to bring praise to, and we see this in Romans 13, to bring praise to those that are attempting to and trying to live rightly and do the good thing, the right thing, and to bring wrath and fear to the one who is living wrongly and doing the evil thing, or in the context of police officer, the criminal thing.

And then within that context we also have the sword being given to the police and to government officials to be used in certain instances where it’s legally justified for the police to use lethal force. So a police officer who is good, is seeking the welfare of the city, understands that he’s under authority, understands that he is in that position ultimately placed there by God and that God is his ultimate authority.

Sam Rohrer:                      Okay, that’s excellent. Now I’m going to come back and just ask you very specifically. We’ve talked about a lot on this program and you speak about it on your podcast and you actually are involved in it every day when you work. If there are two purposes, go right to the heart of it. What are the two purposes of good government? And as a definition like that, therefore good police officers who enforce the law and the regulations of good government, what is the purpose of good government?

Anthony Weaver:             To praise and lift up the one who is doing the good thing, the right thing, and to bring wrath down on the one who is doing the wrong thing, the evil thing.

Sam Rohrer:                      Okay, now let me ask you that as a good officer, which you are, you have that in place, all right, give me an example of how a good police officer in his capacity with the uniform on would actually praise those who do well.

Anthony Weaver:             So I mean think that’s a great question and I feel like many police agencies in our country right now are kind of losing focus on the mission and are really concerned with what people think about them instead of doing their job. And if they did their job, we would see this, Romans 13, this mission, this mandate acted out.

So for me personally as a police officer, I found that the best way that I could praise the citizens in my community is to go after the ones that are bringing an unpeaceful environment to them. So if we had a subject who was dealing drugs or engage in criminal activity and me and my group of guys that worked for me, we hit a door and we made an arrest and we put that person in jail, the person living beside them who was attempting to live rightly would come and whisper to us and thank us for doing that, for bringing peace to them. And that was the way that we as good police officers could praise those in our community who are doing the right thing. I think that’s just a simple way of laying it out as a police officer.

Sam Rohrer:                      I think that’s really good. I didn’t know what you were going to say, but that’s very practical. Let me take it and connect it now to your podcast. You use the word diakonos, a cop’s calling. That’s interesting, calling, most people think about that as some kind of a ministry type of a relationship. Explain what that is and tie that back into good government, good police, police meaning government as the definition would say, and then good police officer. How do you view yourself as a good police officer according to what Romans 13 says and that word diakonos that you use in your podcast?

Anthony Weaver:             Sure. Well, in Romans 13:1-7 we see that word servant. Some translations call it minister or deacon, but we see that word servant three times in those first seven verses in Romans 13. And really diakonos is Greek for that word servant. And so as a good police officer, I understand that I serve my community. I’m a servant of the people. I’m also serving at the commissioning of the government authority above me, legislators who create law, district attorneys, my bosses within the police agency, but ultimately I’m serving God because if God has established those people in government, that means that he has ordained and established me to be in that. I felt a calling to do that. And so ultimately I need to remember, as all of us need to remember in whatever we do, we do it for the Lord. That’s what we’re called to do as believers.

And so that, the servant part of that has been hijacked and people have changed what that’s supposed to mean. As police officers, we’re not called necessarily to be liked by everyone, but we are called to a certain mission, a certain mandate, and that’s to serve the people in our community who are doing the right thing, and again, bring that level of concern and fear to those who are doing the wrong thing.

Sam Rohrer:                      Anthony, we only have a minute left. You’re only going to give a very quick answer to this, but what does a good police officer do who understands good government? Have you ever been in a position where you’ve had to enforce a bad or an evil law as a good officer?

Anthony Weaver:             Yeah, I mean, again, I think this is something that’s really imperative that we think about as Christian police officers, every police officer should be thinking about it and we should be asking ourself, “Well, who has ultimate authority?” Well, God does. And in Matthew 22, I believe, it talks about that we should love the Lord with all our heart, mind, and soul. And so when we’re asked … And love our neighbor as ourselves. So when we’re asked to start doing things that fall outside of that, we need to seriously consider what we’re doing as Christian police officers. We need to think clearly about these things.

Sam Rohrer:                      Anthony, you did a fantastic job of putting a lot in there very quickly. You have a website, Is that where people can go to listen to your podcast?

Anthony Weaver:             That is correct.

Sam Rohrer:             Anthony Weaver, thank you so much. What you provided there was excellent and was well focused and sets us up really well. Ladies and gentlemen, to bring in next segment here, constitutional attorney, David New, because we’re going to transition from this, a good police officer, a good government enforcing the laws. Sometimes what happens when they come into contact with a really bad, lawless citizen and lethal force is used? We’re going to talk about that issue next.

Well, when discussing the matter of police officers and their interaction with the citizen, as we discussed in the last segment, a police officer by definition is a person commissioned to carry out the administration of the laws and regulations of a city or borough or by definition the police. So as the definition actually is, police is equivalent to government, it’s the body of civil laws, a city or a borough or government. That’s really what police means. A police officer is the one who carries out the functions of that civil government.

So then, it goes right to the heart of the purpose for civil government, which as we learned in the last segment are two things, praise those who do well and punish those who do evil. And that’s really the distinguishing factor between good government or evil government. And when applied to a police officer, what we would then term to be a good police officer or a bad police officer. See how it all works together?

But the question really arises and where great controversy often occurs is when the police officer feels for whatever reason, that they must use lethal force, lethal force meaning that somebody was killed in the process. And of course that’s what happened in Memphis. And most of the time when that happens, that’s when everything gets all magnified. And what then brings us to the question we’re going to go to now, the constitutional aspect of that part of a police officer’s potential activity.

And David New, you’ve been listening the entire discussion here so far with police officer Anthony Weaver, and now it’s time to come to you and really go to the undergirding of this. So let me pose it to you this way. When it comes to police officers, no one has any trouble if they frankly never see one. I mean unless you get a neighbor next door who’s rowdy, like Anthony told an example, and nobody ever comes to help, that’s when you want to see. But most people, it’s just fine if they don’t ever have an interaction with their police officer per se, because who wants to be arrested or confronted, that type of thing. But when things happen like in Memphis where somebody actually is killed, that really brings up the question, wait a minute, is that even right?

So here’s the question. Lethal force is sometimes required though in the case of dangerous or lawless individuals. So before we go to the constitution, let’s go underneath of that a little further, to the biblical and moral basis for lethal force. And let me ask you this question and then you can ply it and that is: is it ever right? And what is the biblical basis for lethal force where someone could be actually killed in the process of doing something or engaging whatever with a police officer? So take it from there, David, and welcome aboard. Thanks for being here.


David New:                        Well, blessings to everyone listening today. It’s a wonderful day to be with you. Yes, there is a biblical basis for lethal force by the police and it’s already been discussed. First of all, Genesis 9:6 allows the government to take human life by somebody who takes somebody else’s human life. That is the foundation for it right then and there. But also Revelation and Romans 13, “Let every soul be subject under the higher powers. For there is no power but of God; the power that are ordained of God.”

And the key here is that government is ordained by God. The servant does not bear the sword in vain. So that means that there is power. The government does have power to use lethal force if it becomes necessary. One of the things about Romans 13 that a lot of people get incorrect is that they think it refers to all governments. It does not refer to all governments. There are six keywords in this Romans 13, the first four verses that are very important to understand what’s being discussed here by the Apostle Paul. There are three words called good and three words called evil. Those are the keywords that tell you the kind of government that Paul is talking about in verse one.

What does that mean? It means that a government like Nazi Germany does not have the respect of Romans 13:1. A German citizen can use violence, an act of violence and even use lethal force to bring down a wicked godless government like Nazi Germany that rewards evil and punishes good. Red China would be another example. The narco states would be another example. The Declaration of Independence lays it out again, follows Romans 13 in some respects. It says the creator gives the people the power to alter or abolish government. Well, I can tell you right now when you’re in the business of abolishing a government, sometimes governments don’t want to go away friendly. So that’s what Romans 13 is about.

Sam Rohrer:                      David, that’s excellent. And let me just follow up quickly before we go into who it is actually in our representative republic framework right now that ultimately decides legally when lethal force can be used. And that is this. You and I had a little bit of a discussion before the program in that our founders, I mean if someone would take just what you said and take it out of context, they would say, “Well, then anytime you don’t agree with government, then you have a right to disobey government.”

But that’s not what you’re saying. Our founders also understood that because they were very, very concerned that God could possibly not bless their action, which ended up being the actual war for independence where they said no to the king of England. They were afraid that they could be accused of being in rebellion, which God says in the Old Testament is guilty. That’s very bad.

So work that out a little bit, that good government, Romans 13, bad government, evil, that which can’t be resisted, work out that tension just a little bit more between a person saying no and resisting evil government or being in rebellion.

David New:                        Well, let’s take the United States of America. This is a great country, but it’s doing a lot of bad things. So can a person sit down and think, “Do I have the authority to engage in violence against the United States?” It allows abortion on demand, which is another Holocaust. It allows sodomy to be recognized as protected under the Constitution. And there’s a lot of other things that the United States does that’s bad. Why isn’t it okay for me to engage in violence against the United States? And the reason is simple.

As long as there’s voting, as long as people vote and the language of persuasion can be used to change policies, you should not engage in acts of violence. So when should violence start to occur? When is it okay? When the voting stops. When the government says, “We just don’t need to spend the money on elections anymore.” When that kind of thing happens, go for it. But until then, a good citizen and a freed society like this one should use the art of persuasion to bring about change in policies.

And it may not come right away. It could take more than one or two generations. For example, the woman vote, that started in 1848, but it didn’t come until much later, until 1919. It took generations for women to get their right to vote, but that did not give them the right to engage in violence against the government and they didn’t.

Sam Rohrer:                      David, I think that’s excellent and we could go so much deeper on that, but I wanted to clarify that because there are clear distinctions, ladies and gentlemen, never right, God condemns rebellion to authority.

But in our representative government, as long as we are able to work and vote and voice our opinions and actually become salt and light, then we must pursue on that path, but never obviously yielding and violating what God says because some order comes from government. That’s a whole different thing. We’re not going to go there.

David, before we get out of this segment here, within our representative framework of government, who is it that ultimately determines in what specific circumstances a police officer, for instance, can use lethal force? Is it that officer? Is it his local government, township supervisors? Who is it?

David New:                        The ultimate authority obviously is the Constitution of the United States. In practicality, it basically means the United States Supreme Court in this particular type of case. They will decide what probable cause or when legal force can be used, what is the trigger for it? And the authority for the Supreme Court to do that is the due process clause in the 14th amendment.

I have talked about the 14th amendment many times in this program, Stand in the Gap, and it’s that phrase that says, “Nor shall any state deprive any person of life,” there it is, “life, liberty or property without due process of law.” That phrase, the Supreme Court has interpreted to allow them to decide when police may or may not use lethal force.

Sam Rohrer:                      David, that is very clear. That brings us right up to the end here. But ladies and gentlemen, can you see the tension? We have laws. Thankfully though the laws in this country, although they are being changed, David decided some of them, when the court steps in and makes moral that which God says is immoral or vice-versa, we are in a transition to lawlessness. That is happening. That’s what takes place.

So every police officer, like Anthony said, has to weigh, “All right, what’s my duty before God to good law? What’s my duty to the law as I’m being told to do it by my local government?” And he has to weigh that. We all end up weighing key decisions. When we come back, we’ll continue with this thought, lethal force and the law, and we’ll talk about what actual law is in place.

Well, before we enter into the final segment here today on this program with David New and myself here right now, let me just want to thank all of you who are listening right now for being a part of the program. Thank you to all who have sent a letter in with comments about this program, how God’s been using it in your lives. For all of you who have decided to partner with us financially, thank you.

In these days when budgets are getting tighter and tighter, it’s really important that I ask all of you to keep this ministry in mind. Many of you are giving regularly. Thank the Lord for that, and I pray that you will continue. Many of you have not, but please do so.

Now anybody who from here on who contact us, send us a note or give us any kind of a financial contribution, we will send you a return to God, it’s like a clear label that’s designed to go on the inside of your back window in the car. We’ve been talking about return to God all year. It’s our emphasis. It’s what we think we must do as a nation and certainly fits into our topic here today. Good government, bad government, lawlessness, whatever. It’s return to God.

So this is just a slight reminder, very simple way to give witness. Just simply return to God is what it says. We’ll send that to you free if you send us a note or you participate with us financially. And we pray that you certainly will. or on our app, Stand in the Gap. You can do that.

Okay, let’s do this. As we proceed into the latter times and we’re going to tie what we’re talking about today into the broader aspect of what we emphasize so frequently, and that is the unfolding of biblical prophecy. As we’re witnessing a time of greater and greater lawlessness, we know we are, the scripture does talk about that as in the days of Noah, right, that’s what scripture says, we’re also witnessing increasing and arrogant immorality and scripture foretells and describes that as in the days of lot.

But we also know that in these latter days, we’re told we will see a tremendous falling away from the truth the scripture calls apostacy. It’s where the church actually becomes enablers of a decadent culture by failing to lift up the standard of biblical truth from which alone comes freedom and justice and the appreciation of human life, the sense of duty and responsibility to protect God-given life and property, which is what we’re talking about here today.

So from my perspective, as we see people in positions of government with no fear of God, the understanding of what government should do and the understanding of police as in the administration of laws and regulations, well, it’s going to increasingly come into conflict with the God-given rights of citizens in their capacity to live free and to use their private property as they choose. And as we have citizens generally who do not understand the necessity of governing themselves according to God’s 10 commandments, you and I understand that, but people don’t generally, there will be because of those things, increasing conflicts between either bad police officers and law abiding citizens or between lawless citizens and good police officers. The point being incidences like we have just seen in Memphis are only going to increase with less ability to actually resolve them because we no longer adhere to a common view of truth and justice and law, and the purpose for those who carry out the law comes right off the pages of scripture. That’s why the return to God emphasis is so critical.

All right, David, let me go to you here now. Wrap it up for us as we talk about it here, as we conclude this, but what does the law actually say on the books? You say the Supreme Court of the United States is the actually determiner of when lethal force can be used. But what does the Constitution and statutory law actually say right now regarding the lethal use of force by police officers? Kind of make that a little bit more practical as we wrap this up today.

David New:                        There are basically two circumstances under which lethal force can be used by a police officer. Just before I read those to you, I want to correct something. I think I said something incorrect about the women’s right to vote in the 19th Amendment. It was the 19th amendment that was ratified in 1920 in the federal constitution.

The other thing I want to mention very quickly before we go into those two circumstances, when you get pulled over by a police officer, please be polite. Let the police officer guide the conversation. Don’t be argumentative and ask, “Why did you bother me? Why are you pulling me over?” Don’t do any of those things. Let the police officer guide the conversation. Basically, shut up. Shut up. The best thing you can do is talk as little as possible and follow police guidelines. If they pull you out or want you to come out and lay on the floor, do it. If they violate the law in the process, you save it for when you go before the judge. And don’t run.

All right, here are the two basic circumstances. Number one, a police officer can use lethal force when he or she believes probable cause, believes that a suspect poses an imminent threat of serious bodily harm, which means if you pull a knife on somebody, if you pull a gun on somebody and they see that, they can shoot you, and that will be completely legal.

The second circumstance is a police officer can use lethal force when a dangerous suspect of a crime, a dangerous suspect, that means they have an idea of who you are, you’ve got a bad reputation, when a dangerous suspect of a crime involving the infliction of serious physical injury is attempting to flee. So they think you’re a murder suspect, you’re suspected of killing somebody, and you take a run for it. They can use lethal force in that circumstance.

Now, those are the two basic guidelines. The Supreme Court has theirs, but each state has its own. In many cases each city has its own definition of when lethal force can be used. But these are the two basic rules about using lethal force.

Sam Rohrer:                      David, that is excellent and makes me think of this. Ladies and gentlemen, there’s a connection here. We also have right under our constitution and in biblically, if a criminal comes into our house to harm us in our house, that’s when we can use lethal force. But if someone runs out of the house. You come home, somebody has been in the house maybe robbing. They run out of the house and you get your pistol and you shoot them in the front yard, you’ll be charged with murder. What’s outside your house it’s in the domain of local police. That’s where their authority picks up.

So a lot of this, David, as you’re talking about as we’re laying out, it’s important for citizens to be informed, knowledgeable, as well as police officers, as well as those in office. And that’s what our founders said, right? It’s impossible for our representative republic to exist without an informed citizenry. There’s a real connection to that and knowing biblical truth, isn’t there?

David New:                        Yes. And again, a police officer cannot use deadly force against a nonviolent, unarmed felon who is fleeing. So if you aren’t a murder suspect, you’re not somebody who has a criminal record and they know who you are, you’re not a violent person, you’re not armed, but you are a felon, you’re suspected of being a felon and you flee, even in that fact pattern, they are not allowed to use deadly lethal force against you. So they’re really going after people who pose a serious physical threat or have already done something very bad along those lines. That’s when the legal force triggers and can be used.

Sam Rohrer:                      Thank you, David. Excellent. And ladies and gentlemen, all these principles that David just said and what Anthony was talking about, they all come right off the pages of scripture. They all come off the pages of scripture, everything we just talked about. That’s why it’s important to have a developed biblical worldview to pursue the truth of God’s words, to embrace it, and then as we say, to stand in the gap for that.

Thanks for being with us today. David New, always a tremendous amount of good information. Thank you for being with us. And ladies and gentlemen, Lord willing, we’ll see you back here tomorrow.