This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program originally airing on April 4, 2023.  To listen to the program, please click HERE.

Jamie Mitchell:                 Well, welcome again to another edition of Stand In The Gap Today. Used to be that when you gave someone your word, it meant something. There was weight behind it. What was behind it was the ability to trust the person or the business, or even the government because there was longstanding evidence that what they said they would do, it would come to pass. Another way to say it, they were credible, and the credibility is a valuable commodity. It’s gold. Credibility is defined this way that which is worthy to be believed. A thing is credible when it is known to be possible, and when it is involved with no contradictions, inconsistencies, or absurdity. However, in recent days, credibility has been lost, or should I say, squandered.

Years of integrity capital has been eroded by deceit, breaking of the rules, hypocrisy at highest levels of leaders in every major nodal institution needed for society to function has been compromised and corrupted. Think about it, whether it is the government, justice system, medical profession, education, corporations, and even sadly, the church, we have been let down and we just don’t trust what they say. They have all lost credibility. Even when something seems valid or genuine, our trust reservoir has been so depleted that we question everything and everyone, even people we personally know. We doubt them. We are facing a major credibility crisis, and our nation cannot survive without it.

Today on Stand In The Gap, Sam Rohrer and I want to discuss the credibility crisis. Can it be restored? To help us consider this timely and important idea is Jeff Childers. Jeff is a lawyer from the free state of Florida. Beyond his legal prowess, Jeff began writing a daily newsletter, Coffee & COVID. Thanks to my wife, I became a daily reader. Pointing out the inconsistencies and false information that was placing our country under bondage during the pandemic, his wit and incredible insights rocketed his audience, where today some 100,000 plus subscribers receive his daily email, but then he expanded his focus beyond COVID in consistency and began addressing all aspects of life where hypocrisy and corruption was manifesting itself. He has been a witness to this loss of credibility, and we are thrilled to hear his insights, and we welcome him today. Jeff, welcome to Stand In The Gap.

Jeff Childers:                      Jamie, Sam, good afternoon. I’m so excited to be here. I don’t think you understated the issue a bit. The reason I say I’m so excited to be here is because I really believe this is the most important issue that’s facing our nation and our church, and that’s saying a lot given everything that’s in the headlines these days.

Jamie Mitchell:                 Jeff, take a moment if you would and just tell our audience how a lawyer in Florida became involved with writing a daily newsletter confronting the COVID crisis and turning a light on all of these false narratives being propagated by business, and media, and the government.

Jeff Childers:                      Well, the short version is that the Holy Spirit grabbed me by the hair on my head and just shoved me right up onto the front lines. It was one of those moments I’ll never forget. I was sitting on my back patio with my wife watching a county commission meeting, the first one I’d ever watched in my entire life. If you’ve watched them, you know how awful that is. They were discussing this new COVID virus and what to do about it. My county became the first county in Florida to impose a countywide indoor and outdoor mask mandate. As a lawyer, I was just fundamentally offended by that and profoundly disturbed at the unconstitutionality of it. Within two weeks, I had filed my very first lawsuit against the government against that mask mandate, and this is in April of 2020.

As a part of that, I started looking at the local COVID stats and finding that, in my opinion, what the local government and the state government were saying about the COVID numbers was dishonest. I was fortunate or blessed enough to get a hold of the first 400 coroner reports on the first 400 deaths from COVID in Florida before they changed the rules to make it impossible to get those through public information requests. What I learned when I reviewed in detail all of those 400 death reports just shocked and appalled me. I did not believe that there was a pandemic, or at least nothing like what was being described to us every day on the news 24/7 relentlessly, this fear that they were pushing down on us. I started publishing my thoughts and what I was finding on my little Facebook page, and that has, as you said, turned into a Substack now with over 130,000 verified unique email addresses that receive it every day.

Sam Rohrer:                      Jeff, that’s fantastic. You and I share certain things. You come from the perspective of a lawyer in law. I used to be in office, and the legislative branch made laws, and when I looked at what happened same time you did, my first words were unlawful, unconstitutional. Now, you’re a God-fearing attorney. You’re involved in this whole area of justice with our country. Here’s my question to you right now briefly, but what is clear, we’ve got a credibility problem. Here’s my question right now. Why is the loss of credibility so critical not just anywhere in the world, but particularly here in America?

Jeff Childers:                      I would say there’s at least three major points, and I’m speaking from my background with an undergraduate degree in economics as well as my law background. Number one, a widespread loss of credibility by citizens against their government increases all economic transaction costs. It also destabilizes the social order and it incentivizes the government to have a tendency toward tyranny instead of democracy. Let me just go through those real quick. When I say it increases transaction costs, I mean when people don’t believe what the government says and they have to spend more time verifying the things that the government said, doing their own research, they’re less likely to cooperate with each other. If everybody believes in what the government’s published and has confidence in it, then they can all work together, and they all share a common set of values and principles, but when nobody believes what the government is saying, everybody’s an island and they’re all working individually, or worse, they start forming into tribes and competing against each other.

When I say it destabilizes the social order, the citizens start distrusting each other, and we’ve already seen that, right? There’s some people who say they believe what the CDC says, and other people say they don’t believe what the CDC says, and then the people who disbelieve the government all start doing their own research and coming up with their own theories and form into other groups that can attack each other, and it leads to civil unrest, which is exactly what we’re seeing. When I say that it bends the government toward tyranny, especially when combined with other national security issues or problems, if the government can’t convince us through data, then they force us through mandates.

Jamie Mitchell:                 Hey, Jeff, let’s take a break here and we’re going to come back. We’re talking about the credibility crisis in our country. It affects everything. Come back and join us as we continue on this episode of Stand In The Gap. We’re talking with Jeff Childers, an attorney and author of the daily Coffee & COVID newsletter. Today, we’re discussing the loss of credibility in our nation and how it adversely affects our way of life. Jeff, let’s look at this era called COVID and dissect the loss of credibility. From what you have written and researched, how did the medical community fail us?

Jeff Childers:                      That’s a great question. Before I dive into it, let’s just take a moment to recognize a debt of gratitude that we owe to all the really courageous doctors and scientists who put their professional careers on the line to speak out, but most doctors and most scientists did not, and I think there are a few reasons. One is they discarded their independent medical judgment in exchange for assembly line one size fits all medicine that was pushed out from these big agencies. The second is they slavishly adhered to the bureaucratic information instead of doing their own research. They chucked out informed consent, one of the longest standing principles in medicine, by burying anything, even if it was true, that would’ve made people hesitate to take the jabs.

They abandoned, I don’t know, 200 years of prior epidemiological norms like knowing that mass and lockdowns are counterproductive, but they did them anyways, and they threw a thousand years of medical ethics into the trashcan basic principles like first, do no harm. I took a scientist deposition at 1.1 of my cases, and he was very prominent in pushing in the jabs. I said, “Doc, have you ever disagreed with the CDC?”, and he said, “Sure, I bet I disagreed with the CDC a bunch of times,” and I said, “All right. Doc, name an example of when you disagreed with the CDC,” and you know what happened then? He did not give me a single example, and that’s the problem.

Sam Rohrer:                      Jeff, that’s excellent. Let me go right into this because how I noted as well, it seemed like almost every position of God ordained authority bought into this, and I would’ve subscribed it, just like you said, the majority in each of these areas. Now, let’s go to the matter of government. Just as we know, Romans 13 is the primary purpose of government justice, the enactment of the law. All right, explain what you saw within the justice system and the lack of credibility that has developed, and what that means.

Jeff Childers:                      There’s an old saying, it goes, “During an emergency, the constitution takes a nap,” and that’s not new. There’s a quote attributed to Cicero from the Roman Empire, he said, “Inter arm are silent ledges,” which translates to during war, the law fall falls silent. That’s what happened for the first year of the pandemic. Courts just took a hands off approach to curtailing any of the anti-democratic abuses of authority that were happening, giving government total leeway to deal with the pandemic, and the problem is people aren’t going to forget that. Now, I will say that to their credit, after that first year, the courts began remembering the constitution. Without the courts, think about where we might be right now. We would be a lot worse off. Out of all the missteps in the pandemic, I think I would give the courts maybe one or two stars.

Jamie Mitchell:                 Jeff, are there any legal recourse of undoing or reversing some of the effects of the legal mandates, the way that the constitution both federally and even throughout some states were violated, and this overreach of government? Can something be done to undo a lot of the damage that was done?

Jeff Childers:                      Yes. I interpret your question as setting aside the political questions of elections and making new laws and things like that, and you’re asking me about recourse through the courts to fixing this, and there’s no simple answer to that, but the basic answer is, yes, there is legal recourse. It takes time. If you think about how long it took to get all of the tobacco litigation off the ground, for example, lawyers were working on that problem for 20 or 30 years before they found the right formula. We are going a lot faster than that.

The good news is that I don’t think it’s going to take anywhere near that long for lawyers to do their part. An example I would point you to is just look at how fast we got the mandates taken care of. The mandates came along in summer of ’21, and by summer of ’22, most of them had been beaten back in the courts. Another bit of good news is that I see more litigation than ever, and it is still increasing. I cannot keep up with the cases anymore, and I used to know them all by heart just maybe a year ago. I think things are headed the right way.

Sam Rohrer:                      Jeff, let me follow up with you in this regard. Now, you take a oath as an attorney. I took an oath nine times. Hand on the Bible, I do solemnly swear to uphold, in this case, the Constitution of Pennsylvania and the United States. All right. Now, in these cases, the suspension of law, and I have a problem personally with those in positions of executive authority, enforcement of the law, and the legislators, Congress, and so forth who were involved, who did and said nothing to me, I have a major problem credibility wise because the oath of office is to protect against this kind of thing, and it has nothing to do with judicial action. Obviously, the laws, we know you filed cases you’re talking about to try and redress, but the fundamental breaking of the oath because the constitution in fact was violated, maybe you’ve spoken to that, but I’d like to know how does that factor into it? Because that’s the ultimate, theoretically, it was the guarantee that those in positions of making law, interpreting law, or enforcing law would not be suspect or anyways. Speak to that if you don’t mind.

Jeff Childers:                      Yeah, so that’s a really good point because what happened not just in the United States but worldwide, but especially in the United States, is that all of the decision making related to the pandemic and these economy destroying decisions that were made we’re all done by the executive branch of government, and that is not how our system works. We have a democracy. We have a republic form of democracy where we elect our representatives who go up to the capitols and represent us in making decisions. As you pointed out, those legislatures were not involved in any way in any of that decision making. They were completely bypassed. You know what? Our constitution, now, this is not true of every constitution, but our constitution does not contain an exception for emergencies. It does not put aside the three branch structure of our government just because of an emergency. In fact, our founders drafted the constitution during an emergency. They knew all about emergencies, and they could have put something in there if they wanted to, and they didn’t, so everything that we saw unfolding over the last three years was a grotesque violation of basic constitutional norms.

Jamie Mitchell:                 See, Jeff, we’re talking about credibility today, and what we’ve talked about in this segment already is that the medical community failed us, and so now we don’t trust them. We saw government and even the legal realm, and we’re glad to hear some of that’s getting corrected, and even those in elected office failed us, but probably one of the areas within society that really has failed us is the media. You’ve got a little taste of this now because of your newsletter and being out there. What have you learned about power and corruption of the media these past few years?

Jeff Childers:                      Yeah, that’s an excellent question. I write about this subject a lot on my Substack, and I refer to what a lot of people call, but various names, the legacy media or big media, or anything like that. I call it the corporate media because almost every traditional media outlet in this country has been purchased up by fewer than six giant mega corporations, right? Disney, for example, is in the news business. Now, you explain that to me how an entertainment company is in the news business. Is news entertainment? What we’ve seen is, and this is again also not new, is that the media, especially the corporate media, has become a fully owned subsidiary of our US intelligence agencies. I’m not the first one to notice that. It’s not a conspiracy theory.

We’ve already discovered that there are tons of spooks working or pretending to work for all the social media companies, right? All these supposedly XFBI XCIA, XNIA agents embedded in all of these, hundreds of them, hundreds and hundreds of them, embedded in the social media companies. The answer is we need a new church committee, which was the 1975 commission that was headed up by Democrat Senator Frank Church, and they discovered the intelligence agencies manipulating the media, and Project Mockingbird is what the CIA was calling it at that time. For all we know, that’s still going on. There is no confirmation that the CIA ever put a stop to that, and we need to put a stop to it.

Jamie Mitchell:                 Hey, we said at the beginning of this broadcast, without credibility, our nation is under great threat. We’ve already heard how medically, legally governmentally, even the media, without credibility, we can’t function. When we return, we’re going to talk about the church. We talk about the church here a lot, but even there, credibility has been lost. Join us back in just a moment here at Stand In The Gap. Well, welcome back. Our discussion today is the credibility crisis that we’re experiencing in our nation. What do I mean? Well, when you hear anyone from the CDC speak, or maybe even Dr. Fauci on a television program, do you believe them?

When the White House has a press conference, do you find yourself suspicious of everything you’re being told? Do you automatically doubt that justice will occur when you hear about a crime committed? All of this is a byproduct of a loss of credibility throughout some major institutions in our world. Our guest today is Jeff Childers, who shares his insights on what is occurring in our nation on his Coffee & COVID email. Jeff, after reading my Bible, I have my devotions. God still has number one place, but I anxiously wait each morning to read your C&C. How can people get on your email list and start receiving this newsletter?

Jeff Childers:                      Thank you for those kind words. All they need to do is go on their browser and log on to That’s a A-N-D. You have to have your copy first before you get to your COVID, and then you put your email address in, and you can start getting a free newsletter every day, six days a week, or seven days if you can help out.

Sam Rohrer:                      Excellent. Let’s just kind of continue back on where we were in the last segment. Talked about the media, talked about government. Let’s move to this area because not only did those policies that we described that came out of COVID, and you used the word as I have used the word, unconstitutional, from the beginning, and these things moved forward, and thank you for your filing suit there in Florida. That’s exactly what needed to be done. You’re one of the few good guys, so thank you for doing that, but there was one area that needed as people were looking around and saying, “What do we do? Do we believe in government? Something doesn’t sit right here.”

They saw some things, but they didn’t know the inner workings of the law like you do and I did, and we knew right off was unconstitutional, but it needed a moral sanction. There enters the church and the pulpits of America. They also got involved in… Well, rather than me tell you what I think happened, why don’t you tell us what do you think happened in regard to the church in America relative to those actions which were clearly unconstitutional?

Jeff Childers:                      Well, I’ve got some tough words for the church, and it should not detract from my love for all of my brothers and sisters and all the great people who were working in ministry and everything, but the church failed during COVID. In doing so, it created an under-addressed crisis in church leadership. It tore the veil of trust. It opened a chasm of confusion in at least four different ways. Let me go through them with you. First, I think the church put worldly powers over biblical authority. As you know, most churches closed under government orders, but the Supreme Court quickly said, within 12 or 24 months, that that was never needed it. Those were illegal orders to close those churches, but the churches still closed.

Hebrews 10:24-25 says, quote, “And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds,” listen to this, “Not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another,” listen to this, “And all the more as the Day approaching.” We had a chance to resist illegal government orders, which are surely the very first thing that’s coming in the tribulation, and we missed it. We failed. I think the church whiffed its stress rehearsal for standing up to the mark of the beast. If the government only has to lie and say [inaudible 00:23:10] to convince the shepherds to push the sheep to accept the government approved invasive medical procedure, how on earth are they going to resist the [inaudible 00:23:20]? They had a chance and they totally missed it.

In similar vein, worse than that, they participated in the vaccine line. The pastors were from the pulpits encouraging people to take those jabs in order to end the pandemic and protect their neighbors, and that was not true. It didn’t end the pandemic and it didn’t protect the neighbors. That was false, so there was falsehood coming from the pulpits to convince people whose own discernment were telling them that they should do something different. Finally, fourth, I would say that many pastors, not all, but many preached just basically heretical things during the pandemic. One example I heard over and over again is a pastor who, after an elderly member of the congregation passed away from COVID, they would get up and sadly announce we’ve had another COVID tragedy. A tragedy. That’s not Christian doctrine. We don’t consider it a tragedy when one of our brothers and sisters goes home. We celebrate it. Calling it a tragedy implies that COVID is in charge and not God, and I’m sorry, but that’s just heretical.

Jamie Mitchell:                 Jeff, probably, Sam, we’re not in the same location, but I’m guessing that Sam is standing up out of his seat as I am saying, amen, amen, amen. We have spoken on this so many times on this program, but Jeff, many pastors listened to us. How would you encourage them to lead differently? That’s what they did wrong. How can they lead differently? What could or should they have done when this all started to unfold?

Jeff Childers:                      All right, I’ll give you five suggestions. First, they should have kept tightly to scripture in the face of a crisis and not hue to the government. Second, they should have kept gathering together. They should have stayed open and challenged these illegal orders. Third, they should have kept community by holding masked and unmasked services. That would’ve been so easy to do. 9:30, masked service. 11:00, unmasked service. Nobody has to fight about it. They should have kept out of people’s private jab decisions and left it up to everybody’s own discernment. Maybe most importantly, fifth and finally, they should have kept manifesting hope, salt, and light to their communities, not manifesting fear and compliance.

Sam Rohrer:                      I couldn’t agree with you more. I think those were excellent in what you said, and that’s what we said, and I was. Jamie said I was saying amen when you’re talking about that. Absolutely, because we say here regularly, go to what God says first, otherwise, we are going to what man says, and of course, man is trying to replace God. We see it all around us. You made it very clear, and that is perfect. Now, let me ask you this. Many pastors I know did say, “Well, you know what? We’ve got to respect authority of government. We pray for them and we’ve got to obey them.” They said those actual words, and therefore they were conflicted perhaps. On the other hand, it could have been an excuse for lack of courage, could be a lack of the knowledge of Word of God, it could be all of those, but speak to that a little bit. What caused that reaction from so many of the pulpits?

Jeff Childers:                      Yeah, so let me pose two rhetorical questions to you. Okay? The first one is let’s look at John MacArthur. John MacArthur refused to close his church. He was fine. He was heavily fine. He was sued. He was sanctioned. He was given code enforcement orders stacked up in a giant pile, and he ultimately won hundreds of thousands of dollars in the Supreme Court decision in his favor. Now, the rhetorical question is, was John MacArthur disrespectful to the government? The Supreme Court didn’t think so. One of those two groups is wrong. Either John MacArthur was wrong to stand up and sue his government, or the pastors that closed voluntarily were wrong. If they were wrong, they need to confront that because that’s where the loss of credibility happens. The second rhetorical question I want to offer you to answer your question with a question is two principles.

First, God is not the author of confusion. Satan is the father of lies. Many pastors unquestioningly repeated the Satanic lie that taking the jabs was the way to love your neighbor. Worse, many pastors and many church leaders used their positions of influence in the church to suggest that God wanted people to get jabbed. Many people trusted these untruthful leaders, and they got the jabs, the ones that their discernment was telling them not to take. Now, what about what I just described as biblical? You don’t need to answer. The bottom line is that both pastors and church leaders gave into fear. They were afraid of a virus, of the government, of social ostracism, or maybe loss of attendance, or all four, but they didn’t depend on God. They lost faith in him. This was a crisis of faith more than anything else. Now, listen, the constitution is one thing. Maybe it takes a nap sometimes, but the Bible never takes a nap, especially not during a mild pandemic.

Jamie Mitchell:                 Jeff, you are exactly right, and because of that, I would say many pastors today, to regain credibility, needs to apologize to their congregation. When we come back, our final segment, we’re talking about the credibility crisis. Join us back here at Stand In the Gap Today. Well, it’s been a great joy to have Jeff Childers with us this hour as we’ve considered the important topic of credibility. We have said that we have a credibility crisis right now due to deception, and inconsistencies, and hypocrisies in many leadership venues that has breached our trust, the accountability, and recourse. Jeff, as we make a turn for home in this program, we want to consider is it really possible to restore credibility? If it is possible, what do we need to do to reclaim this in these important trust needed entities that we’ve discussed things like medical, and government, and legal, and the church, what do you recommend needs to happen?

Jeff Childers:                      Well, as you pointed out, virtually every institution in our country failed us. It has provoked, as you described it, a real true crisis. You’re going to think I’m exaggerating, but I believe the prescription. You need to think post-Civil War reconstruction. I think it’s something on that scale, right? First, we need visible accountability and reform. The citizens need to see the government marching through all those institutions, figuring out what went wrong with full transparency and visibility to everybody, and then showing what they’re doing to make sure it never happens again. My next suggestion would be that we need to have public acceptance of criticism. There’s been so much. We didn’t even talk about censorship, but the public officials who are involved in this, the scientists, the bureaucrats, they need to sit in a public forum and hear from every single citizen who wants this to tell them how they feel, and they need to listen to that. Limited to three minutes each, but that conversation needs to happen.

Until it does happen, it’s just a sore wound that doesn’t have a dressing on it. We need to make restitution to the injured. I’m sure your mind jumps immediately to people who are vaccine injured, but I’m not just talking about that. Think of the school kids who have lost a year of school because their school was locked down or because they had to wear masks and their learning development was retarded. All of the people between those two spectrums and everybody in the middle who has a legitimate injury from this pandemic, the small business person that lost their business or whatever, they need to receive restitution. We need to recognize the people who bucked the trend and were heroic. Without that record means statues in town squares, things on that order, that’s what we do after wars. We need to recognize the people who sacrificed for the common good and put themselves out there. Finally, we need to have our public officials show contrition. Without that, I don’t think that the citizens will believe that there’s going to be effective change.

Sam Rohrer:                      All right, Jeff, you’ve laid out a pathway there, but I’m going to follow up in this fashion as well. What you’re describing, a politician coming to the people and saying, “You were upset. I want to know what happened,” that doesn’t go together too much. Most people don’t want to actually hear someone tell them what they may or may not have done right or wrong without something in their heart that changes, a heart change. We’ve been saying for a couple of years that we, in this country, need a return to God. You would know, and Jamie and I have talked about it, the scripture says, “Judgment must first start at the house of God,” so I agree with what you’re saying. Those things do need to happen, but what needs to happen first, and clarify what I said, add to what I said, or add something new to it, but it’s got to start somewhere. It’s not going to start from the politician, and it’s not going to start from the media coming back to the people, I don’t think. Where’s the start?

Jeff Childers:                      Yeah, there really is only one institution that conceivably could voluntarily change that we’ve been talking about, and that’s the church, and so it’s going to have to start with us. That’s the simple answer.

Jamie Mitchell:                 Jeff, have you seen or do you sense across the landscape of a church pastors who have made these kinds of leadership faux pas coming back and saying to their congregations, “Look, I failed you. We made a mistake,” or are we doing the same thing and just pushing something under the rug, and moving on and hoping people forget?

Jeff Childers:                      Yeah, unfortunately, I think we’re in that latter category right now. That’s the phase that we’re in is that I think there’s still some kind of desperate hope that the information that’s coming out will change course and retroactively make those decisions look better than they currently look. The problem is that, in reality, the information that continues to pile up is going the other way, and making those decisions look even worse. We’re going to have to grapple with that at some point because this loss of credibility is like a poison. The longer it’s unaddressed, the more it spreads and the sicker the patient gets. It really is a test for the church for when will it ultimately grapple with this.

Jamie Mitchell:                 Jeff, last word, in these past two or three years, I’ve said that you have been the voice for the common sense man, turning the light on some of the corruption and confusion being spread. Do you ever get weary? Do you throw your hands up and say, “Boy, this just is not worth it, it’s not really making a difference”? Has your efforts at least been worthwhile in some way from your vantage point?

Jeff Childers:                      Well, your question reminds me of Galatians 6, right? “Let us not grow weary of doing good.” I have been so blessed throughout all of this. I will be honest, I have worked harder than I’ve ever worked in my entire life, and my wife will tell you I worked on to desk seven days a week now, but I am fueled by the Holy Spirit, and God opens… Every time I walk in a direction, he opens doors and windows for me, so the blessing is just immeasurable. I could not possibly calculate it. No, so far, I have not grown weary, and I’m going to keep going until they stop me.

Jamie Mitchell:                 Wow. Well, the daily newsletter is Coffee & COVID, and it comes from the pen of Jeff Childers, who’s been our guest today. Again, thank you, Jeff, for carving out an hour in your very busy life and demanding schedule. Friends, this draws a close another hour of Stand In The Gap Today. Today, we focused on credibility. We know that there is a crisis. It may seem overwhelming and at times seem futile. However, each of us, with God’s help and strength, and under the power of the Holy Spirit, adhering to the word of God, we can pursue integrity in our lives and live credible lives. That’s what Sam said.

We need to return to God. That is our hope, the people of God standing up and being credible. That’s why we are here every day in what we do, bringing you these topics, challenging you, trying to speak to pastors, and trying to change the direction of our country one believer at a time, one church at a time, and it won’t be easy. That’s why I say at the end of every program I do, what we need most from you today is to lead with courage. This is Jamie Mitchell for Sam Rohrer and the rest of our American Pastors Network family. Thank you for giving us this hour and being a part of Stand In The Gap Today. God bless you.