Defending Life and Liberty

Defending Life and Liberty

August 15, 2024

Host: Dr. Isaac Crockett

Guest: Ben Sisney

Note: This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program aired on 8/15/24. To listen to the podcast, click HERE.

Disclaimer: While reasonable efforts have been made to provide an accurate transcription, the following is a representation of a mechanical transcription and as such, may not be a word for word transcript. Please listen to the audio version for any questions concerning the following dialogue.

Isaac Crockett:   Hello and welcome to the program. I’m Pastor Isaac Crockett and we’re glad to have you with us on this program today. And today we’re going to be looking at defending life and liberty as we as Americans, even when we pledge allegiance, we think about liberty and justice for all. Many times in the day and age in which we live, we feel like liberty and justice are not being stood up for. And as we talk about standing in the gap for truth biblically, it is a responsibility for those with a biblical worldview, Christians to defend the truth, to defend life and liberty. And so my friend, who’s a returning guest who’s going to be on with us today is somebody who is actively defending life and liberty. It’s an attorney who has argued in Supreme Court and Congress all the way up through the whole system and knows the Constitution very well. It’s a returning friend, attorney Ben Si, senior counsel at the ACL J, and he’s with us today to discuss many things. But Ben, thank you so much. Welcome to the program and thanks for being on with us.

Ben Sisney:         Happy to be on here again with you. Thank you.

Isaac Crockett:   Well, Ben, we haven’t talked to you for a while, but we have talked with many of your counterparts at the ACL J, and we’ve talked with your friend and coworker, Shari Argi, who has talked about things going on at the Un Hague on an international kind of level that I wasn’t even aware of. Those sort of things going on. And we’re so thankful, and we pray for you all there at the ACL J Zoo. Take on kind of this David versus Goya thing in so many ways, but sometimes when we hear about persecution in faraway places like the Middle East or something like that, we sometimes will hear people talk about Christians in America saying, oh, you guys are kind of whining about things and worried about your freedoms being taken away and almost downplaying anything that is there to try to stand for our rights, for justice, for life and for liberty. And so you at the A CLJ are defending people and organizations every day, even here in America that are being treated not just unfairly, but against the constitution, against the laws of the land. And so I would just love to hear your opinion about some of these things. We are not facing maybe life or death threats, but although maybe there are some of that could be going on, but do you believe that we are seeing a rise in America of persecution or of at least some sort of antagonism and hatred towards the Christian faith?

Ben Sisney:         I do, and I understand the nuances of what you’re getting at, and it can be complicated, but really it’s also a little bit of apples and oranges too, I think is what’s happening in America to people of faith and Christians in particular. The trends we’re seeing, is that the same level of what happens to Christians in Middle Eastern nations or really in large portions, as you know, of the world? As far as the degree of the persecution? No. No, it’s not the same. But I think here’s the key, Isaac that I’d ask your listeners to consider. It doesn’t have to be the same to still be a really big problem. There’s different kinds of problems and degree and scope nature, but at the end of the day, those kinds of tyranny and the encroachments on liberty and the freedom of choosing one’s faith and the protections that our constitution provides for that in America, the assault is not sudden from the outside so much as it’s gradual from the inside and going way back and some decades, the education system takeover and all that kind of stuff.

Ben Sisney:         But at the end of the day, it’s gradual. And so you’ve got to be willing to fight for even what might seem just some perspective small or a less important thing. I mean, is it persecution if you can’t have that Bible study because your HOA is blocking it or is it persecution if the town library won’t let you use the conference room for religious meeting, but it’s letting everybody else use it for every other kind of meeting, including very controversial things, is that, well, no, it’s not being decapitated for the name of Jesus. That’s not, but it’s still a problem and we still have to stand up against it because it’s still a hostility towards the practice of the faith. And that’s one of the core reasons for the very existence of our nation. We’ve got to fight for that and not get pulled into that whole, that trend. Well, you’re being whiny because it’s not as bad as, no, it’s not, but it’s also really bad. They can both be bad. Does that make sense?

Isaac Crockett:   Oh yeah. And growing up, I watched a lot of the old fashioned Western movies or the Davy Crockett movies, and in those old movies you would have the bad guys taking advantage of innocent people doing horrible things. And it was the good guy who would come to the rescue. And I kind of see that on the world stage is that it’s the churches and the Christians in America that are oftentimes coming to the rescue, sending resources, sending people standing up for. And if our voice is taken away, what we’re doing is there’s nobody to stop the bad guys, so to speak. And of course, it’s always a gradual slippery slope that leads to these things. So yes, I agree with you. We’re not facing the kind of persecution that our brothers and sisters in other parts of the globe or in other times in history have faced.

Isaac Crockett:   But you nailed it. And I love even just A CLJ is the American Center for Law and Justice. That’s what we’re talking about, law and justice, those are biblical things, standing for truth, standing for our laws and our constitution and for laws across the lands. And I appreciate how A CLJ has brought that, not just throughout America, but even taking it to other countries. But we do want to focus today on what’s going on in America and how you are defending life and liberty here in America. In fact, there’s a pro-life group that was labeled as a terrorist organization by an important part of the government. But before I go into asking about that and getting into some of these scenarios that are going on, could you maybe talk to us about some of the other cases that you’ve been involved with at the A CLJ that represent threats to our liberties? And we only have a couple, maybe a minute or two here for you, just kind of list some of the sort of things that are going on that you’re representing.

Ben Sisney:         Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we’ve got everything going on from towns. I mentioned the example excuse a second ago, but a town library, excuse me, A town library that’s not letting a pastor use a conference room for a religious gathering when it is letting basically everybody else use the conference room for about everything else you could think of and I mean anything. And then also not letting him use the public space in the park and discouraging him from being able to use that for a religious meeting. Then you have, we’ve got the teacher down in Texas that’s just trying to pray at the flagpole to See You at the Pole Event and to be able to pray with her colleagues a little bible study prayer group with some other teachers or the school saying, well, no, you can’t do that because students might see you and we can’t have that. So there’s a couple instances just right there where it’s an assault on a First Amendment protected liberty.

Isaac Crockett:   And that is so important that we look at the constitution that we have that was built on a fear of God and in many ways a biblical worldview and that we use that while we can still use it. Well, when we come back, we want to look at a case where Pro-Life Group was labeled as a terrorist group. We’re going to see what the A CLJ is doing to help. We’ll be right back on standing the gap today in Proverbs 31, starting in verse eight. We read Speak up For those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute, speak up and judge fairly defend the rights of the poor needy. In Isaiah chapter one, it says, learn to do good, seek justice, correct oppression, bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow’s cause. Well, welcome back to the program. I’m Pastor Isaac Crockett and I am talking with a human rights lawyer, an advocate, senior legal counsel for the American Center for Law and Justice, ACL J.

Isaac Crockett:   And that’s my friend, attorney Benney. Ben, we’ve been talking about what you do and what the A CLJ does all over the world, but especially here in America, standing up for law, standing up for the Constitution, standing up for justice. And that means many times defending people of faith, churches, pastors Christians, pro-life organizations against attacks coming from other groups, including even our own government. And right now, Ben, I want to talk to you kind of zoom in on one of the many cases that you’ve been working with. And I know that you might be limited as to some of the things you can talk about in some of these particular cases until they’re completely settled, but you’re working right now to help a pro-life group that was accused pro-life, helping mothers keep their babies pro-human life is accused of being a terrorist group, a terrorist organization. Can you tell us a little bit about Operation Rescue, one of the groups that’s been accused and what they do?

Ben Sisney:         Absolutely. So it’s an honor to stand beside and work with and represent Troy Newman who has set up over there and Operation Rescue. They’ve been, I guess the tip of the spear in the battle for the sanctity of life and our unborn children and protecting women from exploitation of the industry. I mean from the beginning, and we go way back with them. It’s an honor to get to stand with them again. It’s ridiculous that we have to stand with them about something like this. And if you think about, well, I don’t want to get ahead of your question here, but I mean, if you think about the gravity of calling a pro-life organization, teaching our military, teaching our soldiers, but pro-life people and example is somebody that has a choose a Life license plate on their car is somebody that’s domestic terrorist. I mean, it is incredible to me that we’re at that point on the one hand. On the other hand, it’s really not that much of a surprise.

Isaac Crockett:   Well then just to be completely transparent and clear here, and I’ll have you explain more of it, but the US Army, so we’re not just talking about any old part of the government, we’re talking about the main military here, the Army, the US Army has targeted groups including Operation Rescue and has labeled Operation Rescue in other pro-life groups as terrorist groups. And I want to highlight what you’re doing for resolution, but just to be clear, is there any terrorism that they are partaking of when it comes to our friends at Operation Rescue? Are they bombing or assassinating or anything like that? And then what are you trying to do with this resolution? I guess maybe what is the army saying against them and maybe I guess as much as you can about this case that you’re working on.

Ben Sisney:         Yeah, of course. Yeah. First question is, no, of course not. And I note that that wasn’t even something that was claimed by the Army or whoever put these slides together for the Army, just sort of this nebulous. These people could be radical, they can be violent because their beliefs are sort of religious and zealots and that kind of, that’s the kind of picture they’re painting. And so it wasn’t like, oh, there was this specific thing here and this attack and that. It wasn’t anything like that at all. It was just basically Isaac is just straight up of the viewpoint of their speech. I mean, it’s the content and viewpoint of their beliefs. And these people that are creating these curriculums and these programs to train our military are leftist woke. I mean, they’re coming out of these colleges and they’re getting trained this way. This is their world. This is the way they see it. And to them, of course, pro-lifers are terrorists and you’re weird if you even wouldn’t want to question that.

Ben Sisney:         The Marxist tactics are incredible and they’re textbooks. We’re seeing them here and this sort of dehumanize, think about domestic terror. You can call somebody a lot of things and it could even be defamatory or even, but if you call somebody a terrorist, that’s kind of the next level in a way. I mean, they call name calling is not new and everybody, if you don’t go along with them, you’re Hitler or you’re a racist, names are nothing new here. But to call somebody a terrorist has not just yucky value, but legal ramifications, legal consequences, terrorism’s a crime. And it’s not just kind of a mundane crime, it’s a disgusting crime that the American people hate. The American people passionately hate terror. And to call somebody that is more weighty than just to say, these people are crazy, right? Or they’re extremists. No, they’re domestic terrorists teaching our soldier. And you’re alluding to that point too. This isn’t just some agency bureaucrat. These men and women are our soldiers and you’re teaching them this on American soil. Watch out for these guys. They’re terrorists. Really let that sink in. Isaac.

Isaac Crockett:   Well, and as we are talking even right now, and I’ve been thinking about this, putting this program together, that label of terrorism, and to me it invokes images from my younger years of nine 11 that was terrorism. That’s when we had the War on terror. And now if a government agency and we’ve said not just a government agency but our military, the Army is labeling a group as terrorist and I see them doing some peaceful demonstration in my community, I’m going to be scared. I’m going to have knee jerk reactions. And from the information I was reading from ACL J, I believe that this label wasn’t just something that accidentally got put on a website and then was taken off. I believe this is something that they were categorically labeling for about seven years. Is that right? And I guess would this be a fear that this could invoke especially young people who are signing up for the military and things that there could be people involved that could look at a peaceful pro-life group, but they could read into it something different. They’re seeing them as terrorists. I mean, really horrible things could maybe happen as a result. I don’t know how much you can comment on that, but what are your thoughts or explanations about that kind of level of what they’re doing with that term?

Ben Sisney:         Well, I think I can say it’s disturbing and it’s troubling and it is. It’s all of those things, but we got to stop being surprised by so much of what we’re seeing. This is all textbook. This is all part of the Marxist Playbook, rules for Radicals. I mean it’s in plain sight. Their plan and the execution of their plan in what’s happening here. You’re exactly right. This isn’t a, isn’t some, oh man, we had a glitch because we’ve heard all the excuses from all the things that we’ve gone after the government for. We’ve heard ’em all. This was like, oh yeah, it’s not a glitch. That’s been a part of our curriculum for seven years. We’re also hearing, by the way, I see this, some other agencies, some law enforcement agencies have similar propaganda in their education stuff. We’re looking into that, but this is planned and it is out in the open if we just look, but to be willing, and I’m so proud of our client, Troy, for being willing to stand up.

Ben Sisney:         I mean, what you could want to do if you’re in this situation is just kind of stay off the grid and try to be as low key as possible and just hope it goes away. Troy was willing to stand up and retained us to push back. So we sent a demand letter to your question about what we’re looking for first an apology. I mean there’s certain limitations on how you can sue the federal government anyway going to sovereign immunity and there’s some limitations, so we have to do it this certain way, but I mean a legal demand for the injury, the violation of his constitutional right, the viewpoint discrimination against his first amendment rights by punishing him because of what he says and does in his First Amendment protected activity, and you’re going to punish him by putting him on one of the worst lists you could put somebody on in America. Honestly, it really is. It’s one of the worst things you could do. And they did it because of what he believes and says their own slides say. That’s why they’re on the slide is because these people believe and say and do these things, right. They protest.

Ben Sisney:         I mean, that’s incredible. We will go as far as we can with it, but if the Army will just apologize and just give us assurances so we know it won’t happen again, just some basic demands that we’ve made, and you can find our demand letter on our website, HJ do.org. Just some basic demands. It’s not radical. I mean, it’s not like Troy’s trying to, I mean, he’s being very, very wise about just stand up demand. You got to call it out when something wrong happens, when an injustice to your point in the scriptures you were reading, when the injustice happens, we’ve got to stand up against it. You’ve got to. You can’t just sit back and say, well, it’s not as bad as this other one I saw over there. Fight all of the injustice.

Isaac Crockett:   Well, and I’m so thankful that you all are helping Troy and Operation Rescue stand up for the truth. Explain the truth because as Christians, that is important. That’s our light that we need to let it shine. Jesus has called us to be like him and he’s the way, the truth and the light, and we want to talk more about this when we come back. I want to talk to my friend, attorney Ben Sidney, about how we can use our rights to defend life and liberty for ourselves and for others. We’ll be right back on Stand in the Gap today. We’ll welcome back to the program. If you’re just joining us on Standing the Gap today, I’m Pastor Isaac Crockett and I’ve been talking with my friend and Americans Concern for law A CLJ Americans. Okay, I lost my notes here. Ben, can you tell me what A CLJ stands for? Sorry, or yeah, what A CLJ stands for?

Ben Sisney:         American Center for Law and Justice

Isaac Crockett:   Center. There we go. Center, there we go. American Center for Law and Justice. And that’s what we’re talking about. Life and liberty, about standing up for truth, law and justice and actually been able to learn a lot from Ben. We’ve been talking about a specific example where the army of all groups is labeling pro-life groups, including one that A CLJ is standing for that’s operation and rescue labeling them for years now they’ve been labeling them as a terrorist organization, a terrorist group, and to think of all the ramifications that could have, especially over the last number of years where pro-life centers have been bombed, where people have been attacked for their beliefs. And we wonder, does that have something to do with it? But we want to talk more about that. But before I go back to Ben and asking him some questions, I’d like to ask our program producer, Tim Schneider, if he’s able to come and tell about some of the resources we have right here at Stand in the Gap Media.

Speaker 3:           I can. Isaac, good afternoon to everybody. Hopefully you’re having a great day as you’re about doing whatever it is that you’re doing today. Did you ever find yourself too busy to listen to the whole Stand In the Gap Today Show while we are under an hour, but we understand we have busy lives and all the times you can’t catch the whole entire program. Well, did you know that we have shorter audio segments of between two and 11 minutes average somewhere in that timeframe covering various topics discussed on our Stand in the Gap today radio show, we call these podcast Q and ass. And these are podcasts which are good for listeners who desire to hear a short segment on a certain topic. We have lots of different things. We cover finances, the constitution, cultural issues, current events, biblical worldview, tons of different things. You can find the whole show in the archives if you desire.

Speaker 3:           But first you can listen to the podcast q and a and then decide if you want to go and listen to that program. Check out our podcast q and a’s on our app and at our website, stand in the gap media.org. Also, you can subscribe to our podcast through any of the major streaming platforms. We’re on most of the major streaming platforms or wherever you get your podcast. Apple Podcast. Tune in Spotify, iHeartRadio, subscribe to one of these platforms and be notified whenever a new podcast is available and it will be sent to your phone and you can definitely have it. Additionally, if you’re a subscriber to our podcast through one of these platforms, please make sure you rate us ratings will allow other like-minded individuals to find us as they search for podcast. And thanks in advance. Also want to let you know about two of our great websites, American Pastors network.net and stand gap media.org can find lots of archives, lots of other great information by looking through these two websites. If you’re on the American Pastors network.net website, you can also sign up for e-newsletter and be notified of anything that’s happening as it happens here with the American Pastors Network. So that’s some stuff I have behind the scenes, Isaac, and I’ll go ahead and send it on back to you.

Isaac Crockett:   Thank you very much, Tim. Well, Ben, you were explaining to us this particular case and there’s several different cases that you’ve mentioned, but this is one we really dug into and that’s where the Army has actually labeled pro-life groups including Operation Rescue as a terrorist group. And you’re asking for them to reverse course, but to apologize to admit that what they did was not right. It’s against First Amendment rights. But I’m wondering as people are listening right now, I think people are probably shocked that here in America are military could label somebody as a terrorist just for being involved with pro-life activities. For those of us listening, we’re part of the American Pastor’s Network and there are people who are leaders in churches and pastors who are listening right now. What are some things that churches can do to rally around and stand for the truth and maybe to rally around A CLJ and the work that you’re doing in this case?

Ben Sisney:         Okay, so I’m going to skip past all the obvious things. And just from one believer to another, obviously prayer, you’re saying what the churches do and the pastors do prayer, but also being active I think is reminded of the old saying prayer is action, like praying and doing. We all have different things we can do in the different seasons in our life with where we are, but at the end of the day, it is that we need more engagement by our people, our base of the believers in America, our powerful force when they’re motivated and it’s time to be motivated, it’s time to be letting our towns, our school boards to keep the fire alive. Let them hear from us, let them hear our views and excuse me, I would say do it. Do it lawfully, do it peacefully, but do it. Go to the meeting.

Ben Sisney:         Voting is like the starting point. I mean, of course we’re having a hard time getting people to even really be motivated enough to vote. Of course you should vote, but we should do more than vote. And it’s not just national elections either. It’s the local things, like I said, the school boards and the county commissioners and those kinds of things. We’ve got to engage better and push back and do it the right way. Do it. I mean, do it Christlike. There’s a way to do it. It takes maturity and discipline, but there is a way to do it that’s consistent with, and I think even actually pursuant to our faith, and you’ve read multiple verses talking about justice and we have a justice system and we’ve got to make sure the justice system is working. So we’re doing that. Then we got to make sure that it’s available to the people that need it.

Ben Sisney:         And that’s another thing we get to do because of our donors, we don’t charge our clients, we don’t send our clients a bill because our donors want us to be able to work on these kind of cases for em. So they help us to where we can do that. So that’s another way to help in just engaging, paying attention and don’t just shoo the news off. Oh, it’s the news, it’s yucky dc it’s yucky. Yeah, it is. It all yucky. And the news feels bad all the time. I get it. I get all of that, but it still matters. We still got to know what’s going on. We don’t have to fear it, we don’t have to worship it, but we’ve got to know what’s going on and be the light on the hill. I mean, we’re not supposed to hide it. We’re supposed to shine it. And so that’s how I’d answer your question. That’s what I’d ask

Isaac Crockett:   For. So those who are listening and you’re involved at church in a ministry way, a leadership way, pastors helping people have opportunities, things that they can do. What about for those of us on an individual level? You used a word earlier in the program woke that the people in the government have gone woke and really historically we’ve talked about great awakenings and when we talk about a great awakening, we’re talking about revival, that our eyes are open to God’s calling on us. And unfortunately, the progressive liberal movement has seemingly taken a good term like that and tried to pirate it for themselves. And they talk about being woke as opening up and seeing kind of this new world order, but how do we keep ourselves from being woke? How do we keep our families, our children and grandchildren and people we know and love from going woke? And what could, for example, if somebody wants to know more about the ACL J, what could they find out just by going to your website, things like that. Any advice for keeping ourselves sane and following after a biblical worldview and not us or somebody we’ve known and love going woke? What are some things we could do?

Ben Sisney:         Yeah, I think one is just again, with the theme, be engaged and what we’re talking about as a parent or as a friend, as a neighbor or whatever, is to be engaged with the people around you. Another thing, and this is a little free relationship advice out there, be a better listener. Listen, what are your kids saying? What are they talking about? What’s important? What are they not saying? When your neighbor’s talking? What do they say? Where are they coming from? Listen, we can be for better listeners, then people will want to listen to us more and to develop that kind of relationship where people know that you, you’re a listener and then speak up for, I think a lot of constitutionalists or conservatives today are real hesitant to sort of cause a scene or to attract attention and everything from not wanting to get your car key because you have a MAGA sticker on the back to even less severe kind of things.

Ben Sisney:         You just rather not, people are talking about politics and you just don’t want to have to deal with that. So you’re just not going to speak up. Maybe it’s time to speak up and maybe do it in respectful, loving, diplomatic ways that are Christ honoring, but speak up and do it in a respectful way because that’s what makes people want to listen. People don’t like being yelled at or talked down to or even, and I understand I’m on a pastor’s network here, even preach that in the sense that it’s not actually a preacher, but as someone preaching at you like it is, and we can listen better and then we can talk better, teach better. And websites like ours will have a lot of information on it. aclj.org there, there’s other sources out there. We’re not the only show in town. I mean, no problem admitting that there are a lot of solid organizations out there fighting these kinds of battles.

Ben Sisney:         And some of them maybe might focus on this area or that area, but they’re all important battles and we’ve got to engage with all, excuse me, we’ve got to engage with all of them. All the battles matter and tyranny is always at war with freedom always. And if it’s always at war, that means we’re always at war. We’re ambassadors for freedom, right? It’s at war against us, whether we admit it or not, whether we’re acting like it is or not. And it’s time for us to realize and wake up and fully understand that it is and that we’ve got to engage and this is a battle for our culture, our society, our nation, and there’s a loving Christ-like peaceful way to make our voices heard and answer the call.

Isaac Crockett:   That’s so good. Yeah, we want to be good listeners and then engage with these people and be helping people be showing our love to people. But even in talking to you, just I think about how throughout the Bible, we are told to be the light. Jesus is the lie of the world. We are born as children of darkness. Now we’re to walk as children of light and to shine that light and use these resources that we’re talking about to know the facts, to be able to speak wisely. When you do speak up, we’ve got more to talk about as we wrap this program up, talking about defending life and liberty. We’ll be right back on Standing the gap today. Well, welcome back to the program. I’m Pastor Isaac Crockett, talking with attorney Ben Ney for the A CLJ and talking about ways in which they’re taking a stand for life and liberty right here in America, as well as we’ve talked about things in other countries, but especially here in America where we would think our constitution protects us, finding out how we can make sure we are standing up, how we can speak out about those things.

Isaac Crockett:   Ben, I want to get to something you already mentioned about your website and talk about even our program producer Tim got on and talk about some of the resources at our website. But before I go there, I actually want to ask you how somebody listening, because we’re seeing more and more faith-based groups. More and more Christians are facing discrimination, unlawful lack of justice, being denied access to things that other groups are being allowed access to. And I’m just wondering if there’s somebody listening today and he or she are seeking help, wanting maybe information or maybe there’s a situation that they’re involved with, maybe somebody they know something going on in their church group or in their community that they see that it’s injustice going on. You were just talking about how the A CLJ takes on these cases and they don’t charge to do this. It’s those who donate to it. When we donate money to the A CLJ helps go towards all these different cases. But if somebody did have a situation like that, what could they do? Who could they contact? What would be their first step in reaching out for possibly some legal help or even just informing the A CLJ or somebody of one of the situations that’s going on?

Ben Sisney:         And I like that you pointed out informing too, is because you can also be educated, you can also get information that might answer your question and maybe you don’t need to file a lawsuit or do some big formal legal action, but maybe you just have some questions about what you experienced or what happened or what happened to a loved one. Our website has a lot of information on it like that and the category and topic and those kinds of things. But then also it’s aclj.org/help, excuse me. And you can also fill out a form right there on our website with your name and information, a description of what’s going on, and then we get it, we look at it, and then one of us calls you and we talk about it. We figure out if it’s something that you need to work with us to take legal action on, or maybe there’s another alternative. Maybe there’s another route.

Ben Sisney:         And I’ll tell you too, something else I think you especially appreciate, I know I do, is that I think more often than ever when I call a contact on the phone, somebody that had contacted our website when I called them, I find out that their pastor is the one that gave them our name. They were talking about this, such and such going on at the church or at the Bible study and the pastor or some other kind of an elder or somebody like that in the church says, Hey, you know what? I really think you need to talk to the A CLJ and then they contact us. And so that’s huge that that’s incredibly important. The word of mouth aspect and just not everybody’s watching Fox News at night. Not everybody lives in the Beltway Swamp news cycle and outside of all of this out there in regular America, just to have people talking about and to know, Hey, if something’s going on like this, they can call the ACL J. They can count on us, they can give us a call and we will help them through it. That’s huge. That’s better than any kind of advertising. I mean, that’s where the rubber meets the road. So that’s something that your listeners can continue to help with. But then also anybody and pastors, because I have some clients that are pastors. Pastors or parishioners, whoever it is.

Ben Sisney:         And honestly, by the way, even if it’s somebody that has a different faith than I do, a different denomination or a different view altogether because we understand that what the government can do to one view, it can do to any view. And so there’s some complicated lines in there, but we’ve got to remember that is that we also need to stand up where we see just injustice happening to other people and not just wait until it’s happening to me or my group or my people. Injustice isn’t justice and it’s got to be battled everywhere we find it.

Isaac Crockett:   That is so good. And sometimes when we’re listening to something like this, we think, oh, well, I don’t have a lot of money that I could donate. And we don’t realize how even a little bit goes a long way. But also what you said about word of mouth sharing these resources, letting people know about staying in the gap media about a podcast or a radio program that you heard, maybe you, Tim was talking about these podcast questions and answers Q and as. Maybe just listen to a little one of those and we’ll share that with somebody. And the same thing with a CLJ looking for legal help, stand up, talk about it, but be informed. Jesus talks about being a light and being a shining city upon a hill. And that has really been something that people have described America as throughout our history all the way back from John Winthrop to Ronald Reagan when he was leaving office, his last speech he talked about, are we still a city upon a hill that people can look up to it.

Isaac Crockett:   The thing though, that when you are a light in this dark world, especially in a public way up on a hill, people will shoot at you when you’re in war zones. People will shoot at the light. That’s why during World War ii, they would have these blackout shades and things like that. And so yes, when you stand up, you can feel like you’re being attacked, but we know that God is with us and we know that we as those believers that we are there for each other. And so I appreciate what you’re doing at ACL J. Again, that website is aclj.org. And on there, Ben, I’ll go to you maybe some of the information or articles or resources that are on your website. You’ve already really mentioned it, but maybe mention again some of what’s on there so that people can stay informed and up to date

Ben Sisney:         Aclj.org. You can also sign up for emails, I think a daily email with News update. Then also we have a daily radio program that you can watch on our website or on Rumble and some of those other platforms every day at 12 o’clock Eastern. It’s also on terrestrial radio across the country, and that’s another good place to hear the latest of what’s going on, to hear our perspective of news as it happens and everything and updates on cases we’re working on and stuff like that. And so then Jay and Jordan, our people have social media accounts, but if you’re into social media and the updates, and I’m not particularly into social media myself that I know a lot of people are, so that’s another way to be connected, but I think all of that, you can get sort of pointed to all of that by just starting with our website, aclj.org.

Isaac Crockett:   Well, that’s great. I know I often will go there, find things out. Our program producer, Tim Schneider, he’s always involved with lots of different things, getting news sources and handing ’em over to me. And I believe Tim is on your mailing, your email, and I often get things from him, but stay informed, be a good listener listening to others, but listen carefully for what they’re really saying, and then have objective cases that you can talk about. So, oh, that’s ridiculous. That doesn’t happen. You could say, well, no, listen, I just heard today on Stand In the Gap today, and I looked it up on ACL J, and I read an article about how the army actually labeled a Pro-Life Group as a terrorist group, something like that. Stay informed, know the word of God and know what’s going on. As Sam Rohr often talks about having the newspaper, one hand, the Bible and the other, and being aware of what’s happening so that we can be a light and assault in our communities and in our nations.

Isaac Crockett:   Well, Ben, attorney Ben from ACL J, thank you so much for being on with us. Let’s go ahead and close this program in prayer. Our gracious, heavenly Father, we thank you for your control over all things. We thank you that you give us our daily bread, what we need, when we need it, and we pray now that you would guide us, that you would protect us, that you would help your word to be a light into our paths and a lamp into our feet so that we can make good decisions and that we could stand up for what is right, stand for truth, stand for life and justice. It’s in Jesus’ precious, powerful name. We pray these things. Amen. Well, thanks again, Ben Sidney for being with us today. And on behalf of everybody here at Stand in the Gap Media from my program producer Tim Schneider, to my fellow co-host to our guest today, Ben Si and myself, Isaac Crockett. Thank you for listening, and I pray that you’ll take time to maybe listen to parts of this again or share this with somebody else. And until next time, to stand in the gap for truth, wherever you are today.