A Cry for Justice: Defending Christian Rights in Pakistan

A Cry for Justice: Defending Christian Rights in Pakistan

Nov. 22, 2024

Host: Dr. Isaac Crockett

Co-host: Hon. Sam Rohrer

Guest: Shaheryar Gill

Note: This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program aired on 11/22/24. To listen to the podcast, click HERE.

Disclaimer: While reasonable efforts have been made to provide an accurate transcription, the following is a representation of a mechanical transcription and as such, may not be a word for word transcript. Please listen to the audio version for any questions concerning the following dialogue.

Isaac Crockett:   Hello and welcome to this Friday program of Staying in the Gap Today. I’m Pastor Isaac Crockett. Joining me today as my co-host is the Honorable Sam Rohr, the president of the American Pastors Network and regular host of this program. And we’ve had so many fantastic programs this week as normal. But today on our last program of the week, this Friday program, we’re talking with a very close friend of ours, somebody who I have recently been able to spend a lot of time with. And that’s Christian Human Rights Attorney, Shaheryar Gill. Thank you so much for taking time to be with us today.

Shaheryar Gill:   Thank you very much. Isaac. Glad to be here.

Isaac Crockett:   The name of our program is Stand In the Gap Today. The title today is A Cry for Justice Defending Christian Rights in Pakistan. And Sam and I were just talking about this doctrine that we sometimes talk about of Leicester magistrates and this doctrine of interposition, which is to say, stand in the gap for stand in the gap for truth, stand in the gap for justice, stand in the gap for those who are being persecuted. And that’s really at the heart of what we’re talking about today. Shaheryar is senior counsel at the American Center for Law and Justice, ACL J. Many of you’ll recognize A CLJ and you may have read some of the books or things from Jay Sekulow or Jordan Sekulow. We have our friend Ben Ney from there on this program quite often as well as Shaheryar has been on here numerous times.

Isaac Crockett:   And Shaheryar is there at the Virginia Beach office. He leads the ACLJ’s international legal team. We’ve talked about some of the things that he’s been doing even at the UN and the ICC and different places. But Shaheryar, you have the special interest in Pakistan and of course we’ve talked about your testimony before. I’m always tempted to try to go back into that just because it’s such an amazing thing to see how God has used you. But really what you’re doing over there is trying to take a stand for justice just like the A CLJ is doing here in America. But one of the questions, and I have sort of been asked this some by people here in the States, as I’ve talked about what’s going on in Pakistan, people say, oh wow, why were you in Pakistan? Kind of a thing. People seem surprised about that. But the question is, here in America we’ve been given so much, but I’m interested what you see, how our opportunities and our freedoms that we have, how that becomes a responsibility as well to use those opportunities for the Lord’s work, especially standing in the gap for our brothers and sisters in Christ and other parts of the world that don’t have the same freedoms we have.

Shaheryar Gill:   Sure. Isaac, as you shared about the name Stand in the Gap, when you look at Micah six eight, the Lord says, what does the Lord acquire of you to do justice, love, mercy, and walk humbly with your God? So I think the first step is really that in the US we have the Lord, we a lot of Americans know the Lord and then we have his commandments with us to be with the persecuted to help those who are in need. So I think with all of our resources, with our expertise, like as pastors, you and I know when we were there, you prayed for each and every one of our clients when we met with the families. So that’s one thing that Americans can do is pray. The other is God has blessed this nation so much and we have resources, we have skills. And like the ACL J, we as you know, we are using our legal education to help those who are persecuted. And our office in Pakistan helps Christians who are persecuted for their faith. And you have heard many cases and you have met them, met the clients in Pakistan. So I think another thing is to use our skills, our resources, and the gifts that talents that God has given us to help our brothers and sisters who are in Christ and are in need for our help.

Isaac Crockett:   Amen. Well, and I look historically, especially in the last 150, 200 years, but it seems to me like Great Britain and then maybe even more so, I think more so America have been the two countries that people have looked to the most for help. I know even just giving out aid to other countries, America far and far and wide stands above them. But Sam here at the American Pastors Network, we have people reaching out to us from other parts of the world often. In fact, the American Pastors Network has been working in other nations like Israel, Albania, Macedonia, Ukraine, Kenya, Uganda, Pakistan. I mean just lots of them, Sam. So I’d like to have you kind of answer that same question I just asked Shaheryar about this opportunity we have and especially why and we as an American Pastors network should be using our opportunities and our resources to help spread the gospel and help Christians in other parts of the world besides America even.

Sam Rohrer:       Well, Isaac, I mean in reality we here have really tended to follow a mission that God’s laid in our heart to say or right. What do we need more in this world, in this nation run well than anything, it’s faithful preaching of the word. Once that happens, we know from our friends George Barna, that the real need of the church, the command of the church is to make disciples. Well, what is that? Well, that’s to take biblical principles, practically apply it to the issues of life so that those with ears to hear and eyes to see in a heart to serve the Lord are able to be better equipped to know how to be salt and light wherever they are. And what we, to that extent, Isaac, the countries that you have mentioned like in Eastern Europe and now in Central Africa and Kenya and around America, every 50 states, now, all of this that has happened has really not happened because we’ve opened doors or knocked on doors.

Sam Rohrer:       Even God has opened those doors. The international door, the question that you asked there I think is interesting because the request so far has been the same thing. Faithful preaching of the word is what the need is, be it in Eastern Europe or here. And what I’ve heard from those who are carrying our programs now in those places is that there they have many people who have an interest in that, which is true. They do not have practical teaching. However, for young believers and what the programs that we do like this program here and the others are astounding up today and our minute programs and our TV program is we deal with issues that are really the same for any person anywhere in the world. Just apply it a little bit differently. But the connecting of those dots, Isaac, which is what we do, I believe is what God is blessing.

Sam Rohrer:       And those have been the requests that we have heard from others around the world. So my response and your response as we’ve talked about it, is that if God opens the door, then we’ve got to step through it because he is making possible what he has laid on our hearts to do. So when that happens, and we then work with many of our partners like Shaheryar and A CLJ and answers in Genesis, an example, or George Barna and his research, these key people who are doing a job as God has called them a good job, a biblical job in a unique role together we can do and advance the cause of Christ and help believers with their various needs anywhere in the world. I think God is doing something significant. I think those are some of the things that are at the heart of it.

Isaac Crockett:   Amen. And in Galatians six 10, Paul reminds us that as we have opportunity to do good, we should do that especially to those in the household of faith. And we want to talk about that today, how we can be praying for, concerned for, and even maybe there are certain investments that we can be making to help persecute a Christians in other parts of the world. We’re thinking today, especially of what’s going on in Pakistan. So we have a lot of questions for Shaheryar, a lot to learn today. So please don’t go away. We’re going to take a quick time out to hear from our partners. We’ll be right back on Stand in the gap today. Welcome back to the program. I’m Pastor Isaac Crockett, and joining me today is the honorable Sam Rohrer. We’re talking with human rights attorney Shaheryar Gill about some of the situations going on in the world, especially in Pakistan.

Isaac Crockett:   And we’ve been looking at how God has used this country, America to help other countries. In Matthew chapter five, verse 14, Jesus says, you are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. And if you’ve ever come into a city that’s up on a hill, you know what that’s like at night. And in the early days of our nation, John Winthrop, a puritan preacher, he used a very similar phraseology talking about America being established to be there as a light to the world, a shining city on a hill. I think William Penn used similar language and even President Ronald Reagan used similar language, borrowing from Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount to talk about the responsibility we’ve been given because of the great freedoms we’ve been given as Americans. And so Shaheryar, I want to talk to you about this kind of impact and it’s, I guess you could say kind of like a two-edged sword.

Isaac Crockett:   Of course, you fly a lot, Sam, you fly quite a bit. They’ll give you this little spiel about what should happen if this happens or that happens. And one of the scenarios is if you need oxygen and these oxygen bags come down and they always tell you to put your own oxygen mask on first and then assist other people who need help. And the same thing I think applies to America, that as America when we are strong, it makes us stronger to reach out and help other nations to interpose before them to stand in the gap for them. But if America gets weakened, then we won’t have the wherewithal to do that. And so at the American Pastors Network, Sam, you had this goal, this yearning desire to help America and to help the pulpits in America. And as we have been going after that, it has attracted many other partnerships.

Isaac Crockett:   And through that, of course we’ve gotten to know Shaheryar and folks at A CLJ and that’s what they’re doing, but not just here in the States, but they’re doing it in other places. And now we see what’s going on. You were in Kenya just a month ago, Sam, Shaheryar and I were in Pakistan a month ago. And when I was over in Pakistan, I was noticing a lot of things. And there were several towns that I found out about that literally the town had been built by American missions. There was a place we went to visit a family. One of the men had been stabbed and was having bad problems from that stabbing infections and things. And actually on our Facebook page, you can see some pictures of what I’m talking about, this gentleman and some other men, but right next to the house in the center of the town, the town’s really built around.

Isaac Crockett:   It was this church. It was built by American Methodist missionaries I think over a hundred years ago. And the church has grown so much, they actually took the old building down and they’re building a newer bigger church because they need more space and this time they’re doing it with their own money. But it was just interesting to me. I heard of whole towns like this, A Presbyterian mission or a Methodist mission would come in and build a whole town, and now fast forward a hundred years and those towns, there’s still Christians there, generations of Christians and families still even in this Islamic republic of Pakistan. And so it was really amazing. But at the same time, we see negative trends coming. Some of the bad things that are hitting us in America that we preach about and speak about here on the radio, those same trends will go to other countries as Sam and Shaheryar could attest as well. So let me get to you Shaheryar. Could you maybe talk about in Pakistan there’s the influence of being an English colony and there was some biblical worldview set up into the justice system and things like that. But I’m especially curious about America and maybe some other countries from Europe that established churches and Christian communities. Could you talk about how those are in effect still working to some degree to this day,

Shaheryar Gill:   Christianity has been in this Indian subcontinent, which except India. Pakistan has been since the arrival of Thomas there with early Christians. But if you look back at about the last two, 300 years, a lot of Christians that you find now have been basically brought to Christ by American and British missionaries who left their lives here, life of comfort in these two countries and went to Pakistan. They established churches, they bought lands, established villages and ministered to low caste, Hindu, minority Hindus, and they shared the gospel with them. A lot of those people then converted to Christianity and those villages that these missionaries had started, they’re still there. In fact, the village that you mentioned earlier was started by a missionary and you saw the church there. And there are many, many other towns and villages which are named after those missionaries and still thriving. And in fact, those missionaries not only started these communities, but they started churches, hospitals, schools. And in fact, I went to a Christian missionary school and I had not gone to that school. I may not have been where I am today. So a big contribution I would say in Christian life in Pakistan and in India has been by the influence of the American and British missionaries.

Isaac Crockett:   That’s incredible. And I love that history that you were talking about because really the gospel was in the subcontinent before it was in North America because of the Apostle Thomas and his going over there. Now, one of the churches we went to, right? You and I arrived on Sunday morning, took a little nap, and then we started meeting with people and going to church and preaching and things. But one of the buildings you took me to, we didn’t go for a service right when we first got there was this huge church with literally stacks of money sitting around in it and gold looking stuff all over it. You told me some things then and some of the folks with you about these false gospel that we could sometimes call the prosperity gospel. And you talked about some of the issue that that was, and we may talk about this more on this program too, but could you maybe discuss some of the negative impact that some American trends have had in Pakistan, for example, and Sam saw the same thing in Kenya in the last maybe few decades.

Shaheryar Gill:   I think Isaac, as you mentioned, I mean with all the good things, all the real Christianity that the western countries have shared with India and Pakistan, some of what modern church is doing here has also been transported to those countries and the terms that you used, prosperity gospel, unfortunately that has also sort of entrenched itself in Pakistan and in many churches there are following that kind of theology. In fact, in those countries really Christians are so poor that they cannot really afford to be in that kind of business. And to really support those churches and to follow that kind of theology is very damaging because that leads a lot of Christians to really a false hope. I would say lack of, I guess, hard work that there’s this false hope of if you give this much money, you’ll be healed. So I think Christ has warned us. Apostle Paul has warned us about false teachers. So I think we need to be very, very careful because it’s not just a matter of physical needs and material stuff, but it’s very spiritual.

Isaac Crockett:   Sam, what would you say about that? You were in Africa and you saw some of this, there’s really good things, the group you were with in Africa helping pastors, but while you were there, you heard of some pretty interesting and even kind of bad things as well.

Sam Rohrer:       Well, I did Isaac, and it was very much like Shaheryar said there as well, the impact of American, well, many involved in American ministry of some type, the type that you not always because we’re on radio TV and not everybody on radio and TV are charlatans, but many are and they travel and they have, and they’ve given this hope that well, if you give and if you do the right things, then you’ll be like me with the gold ring on my finger and coming in on a private plane and that kind of thing. And that is not the gospel. One of the things that I’ve heard Isaac from pastors in Africa over the number of years, not just in my trip to Kenya, was that so many said these almost exact words to me, countries in like Nigeria and Kenya and other places. They said this, we are so thankful to the American missionary of the last generation that went to Africa and opened it up and shared the gospel.

Sam Rohrer:       We are so thankful for the sharing of the gospel. However, the one thing that we wished would’ve happened that didn’t was that we were not told how to live, how to live biblically, that basic aspect of discipleship that we’ve talked about so much before. They said we believe we were taken to the knowledge of Christ and by faith we were there, but we were not told how to live, how to be, how to watch, to be discerning to the kinds of things that are now challenging them, those kinds of things. And into that is where some of the interest in what we talk about, the authority of scripture, the authority of scripture, God’s word is sufficient. Follow what the word of God says, fear God and keep his commandment. These things that we’re talking about, that part they say they did not get. And that is the part that as they face challenges of the day that are facing them, they are desperate and they say, will you come and help fill that void and do that? And of course Isaac, we know that’s the need here in America too. So yes, to the extent that we can we have, but that’s the kind of response that I have heard over the years

Isaac Crockett:   So much more. I’d love to talk about this with Shaheryar and Sam and I want to maybe get into, but I don’t think we have a lot of time, but talk about some of the denominations here in America. Our political government officials have been pressuring other countries to be opened up to things like homosexual marriage and things. But even our churches, denominations have been going down that route. And many in Africa and subcontinent of India in Pakistan and places have stood their ground and said no to it. So a lot of really interesting things going on there. Very good and very bad things all at once. We have a lot more to talk about in ways that we can be involved in helping persecuted Christians when we come back. Welcome back to the program. I’m Pastor Isaac Crockett, my co-host today is our normal host, the Honorable Sam Rohrer, the president of the American Pastors Network.

Isaac Crockett:   And our guest today is a returning guest who’s a good friend of mine, attorney Shaheryar Gill, a good friend of this programs too of our ministry here at American Pastors Network. And Standing the Gap in Shaheryar is senior counsel, attorney with the Human Rights Organization and Defense Group, ACL J, American Center for Law and Justice. And we’ve been talking about standing in the gap for justice and for protection of persecuted Christians. And we’ve had a great discussion. If you didn’t hear the first part of our program, I would encourage you to go back to listen to all of it. You can get it online, you can download our app. If you haven’t downloaded our app, highly encourage you to do that, staying in the Gap app where you can get access to all of our programs and more. And today I would especially ask you to go to our Facebook page and look at the pictures, look at some of the faces of the people that Shaheryar and I are talking about that we met with, that we prayed with, that we fellowshipped with, that we sang with and cried with in some of the cases as we saw the persecution that’s happening to them.

Isaac Crockett:   And we saw how God is using the desire that Shaheryar has had to help the folks in Pakistan and how God is helping in so many ways, just incredible opportunities. We were talking about the first part of this program, how God has used America. Missionaries came to America, pilgrims came to America for religious liberty. William Penn established Pennsylvania for religious liberty. And very early on in our country’s history, we started sending out missionaries to other places for that purpose. And we see the fruit of those labors. But we also see as our nation has struggled with their biblical worldview and trusting the Bible that the exact same problems that have corrupted many churches and pastors and so-called Christian organizations in America are corrupting organizations in other countries. And so we talked here, we’ve talked programs about the feminization of clergy and people not having the right roles of husbands and fathers and leadership in the church.

Isaac Crockett:   Those same things lead to problems in America. They lead to problems in other countries as well. And so this is why it’s important for the American Pastors Network to help American pastors stand strong on the truth, but for us to send that truth over cease to other places for us to interpose and intervene and stand in the gap for our brothers and sisters in Christ while we have the opportunity, while we have the freedoms and the financial abilities and the resources, the legal and other abilities to help these people. And so you have seen that happening on the ground. You have seen how this legal help has transformed and saved lives over there. And there are many Christians who feel targeted. It’s a system over there where many of the Christians are very poor and so they’re targeted because of that, but they’re also a minority. And so they’re targeted for being Christians. So the two of those together makes them sometimes feel helpless. But I’d love for you to talk a little bit about that and also how you are trying to find ways to protect Christians, to protect Christian communities by helping elevate them out of poverty, by bringing education and opportunities so that they won’t be as much at risk of being targeted for persecution. I don’t know how much of that you can share on a radio program, but I would love to hear you talk about some of that.

Shaheryar Gill:   Right, Isaac? I completely agree. I mean as you saw, I mean Christians are a small minority about, I would say about maybe 20 million or so from the population of 200 million. But you see most of the Christians who converted to Christianity from Hinduism were very, very poor, low caste Hindus who came to Christ. And unfortunately, their status, their social status, their financial status has remained really bad. So one of the things that the Christian missionaries did was again, to start schools there, hospitals there. And that really helped. And what’s going on now is, as you said, the persecution part. The way it works is that Christians are really poor, they’re not much educated, and of course they follow Christ. So there will be persecution as the Lord told us. So one of the things that I hope that we can do is to uplift the Christian community to be sort of at the, not even at the level playing field, but be able to defend themselves.

Shaheryar Gill:   One way we are doing it is through legal to the court system. We have a team of lawyers and other staff that every day are representing people in cases of blasphemy, murder, rape, assault, and many of those clients you met. But the other ways really to do provide some help is to help give education to Christians. We are currently helping, a friend of mine and I are helping two Christian students who wanted to go to nursing. They both don’t have fathers, and they wanted to support their families. And we thought, okay, what an opportunity to help these students. And so we decided that we both were going to help pay for their tuition and help them go to school. And that way they will be able to help their families. And there are so many families like that, so many people who can really do well and avoid persecution, avoid starvation and poverty just by small contributions from people like us who have been blessed in this country.

Shaheryar Gill:   And then the other ways are to really have maybe small businesses there, air hire Christians, there’s no restriction on hiring Christians if you have the owner, business owner is a Christian. So what I saw in this last trip when you and I went together was that many Christians are in the field of restaurants, cooking and chefs. And in fact, one of the chefs lead chefs had a big restaurant in the whore is a Christian. The other area of business is the salon. Businesses and hair cutting and skilled based really, I think skilled based education is really important and those kind of businesses where Christians can be hired and they can thrive. There are so many of these ways where Christians lives can be uplifted and they can be in a better position to fight persecution and injustice.

Sam Rohrer:       And Shaheryar, thank you for sharing all of that because I think part of message we’re wanting to communicate on this program is how in the Lord’s plan, we as a body of believers work together according to our own gifts. Some have the ability like us right here to have a voice by radio, to communicate to millions of people, to allow you to share what God has called on your heart and the matter of ACL J. And then same with our other partners that we work with. Part of that is to help other believers who may not have any ability to be a participant, but they now know better how to pray or in this case to give as you’re talking about, if that’s all a part of, I think the way God has laid things out, go a little deeper on it and just give us an update of a real life case in which you have been involved. When Isaac was there, you and him visited where a son was disappeared, he had been molested and he was killed. And you became involved and helping to bring justice to those who committed that crime. Share a little bit of that and how praying by those here, listening, praying, and giving perhaps has helped in that particular situation.

Shaheryar Gill:   Sam, thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to talk about this family, this family, so much close and dear to my heart. I’ve met them twice and this time we were there. It feels like they are. I couldn’t tell the difference between my own family and them. These guys, these small kids, they just saw us and they ran and hugged us. So what happened with this family was very tragic. Their 14-year-old boy was molested and killed by four of his Muslim neighbors. They hid his body in a sugarcane field and about two months later, these guys, these murderers were talking about it and somebody overheard that conversation and that’s how the family found out. The family went to the police, the police arrested these four men and we were informed about the case. We sent our team and we started representing this family.

Shaheryar Gill:   Unfortunately, after a long trial, the judge released all four of the murderers because he said there was no eyewitness, which is in the US legal system. You would even circumstantial evidence is good evidence and these guys have gave their confessions. They led the police to the body. So there was no room for letting them go. But the judge acquitted these guys, we have filed an appeal while we are waiting for the appeal. We were there at their house. And this family, the dad of that boy, he’s not in very good health. He picks up heavy bags of rice and loads trucks with those bags. So this is the kind of work he does. He’s the only earning hand. The next person is his oldest son who helps him, but the family is very poor and dire need of a room. They have one room in their house. This land was left by their father for maybe two, three generations. And all they have is this one room where the entire family lives. The mom cannot speak the most treasured possession of their home is the Bible. When Isaac and I were there, they showed us their Bible. They took it out of this place. They had placed the Bible at the highest place in their room. And

Isaac Crockett:   Sorry,

Isaac Crockett:   We have to go to a quick timeout. We’ll come back to this story. You can see pictures on Facebook of it and I’m hoping to maybe even put a video on there. We’ll be right back with more of this. Welcome back to the program. And we were just talking with human rights attorney Shaheryar Gill about some of the opportunities, some of the ways that Americans have made a huge difference in other places like the subcontinent of India, of Asia, the Indian subcontinent in Pakistan there, and Shaya, you were telling us about this family and I got to go with you this time and meet them. Horrible situation where their 14-year-old son was taken by college aged men and raped and sodomized, which is extremely humiliating. When all this came out again, he just went missing for months and then eventually found out he had been decapitated and his body hidden and justice never was served in our eyes.

Isaac Crockett:   The people who admitted to it have not been dealt with justly yet. And so that’s one thing you’re working on. But the other thing is this family, as you were describing some of the situation, there’s pictures of it on Stand in the Gap, Facebook, if you would go look at that, you see this little boy who’s missing his front teeth hugging Dyar, and you see this girl very cautiously holding their family treasure the Bible. She’s reading Psalm one about the blessed man and she took this bible out so carefully, had to have her parents help her get it and they unwrapped it and she kissed it and blessed it before turning to that passage to read for us. But their living quarters is very, very small. And so sometimes in a situation like that, a small investment for Americans could change their lives in helping them have a better living situation or ability to do things. Could you talk a little bit more about that? I want to ask you about maybe one or two other situations that we saw over there,

Shaheryar Gill:   Isaac. So the need is really they don’t have a bathroom and they need one room to build in addition to what they have already. They’re currently the ladies, women, everybody goes to the fields to use the bathroom. So I mean it would cost a fraction of what it takes to build a bathroom and a room in the us. So I think if this need is met, I think with all the tragedy this family is going through and the legal work that we’re currently doing for the appeal while we’re doing that, I think it would be a great help for this family to really be able to build that room and a bathroom. So I think if God leads anybody to contribute toward that, I think that that would be such a huge blessing for this family.

Isaac Crockett:   And we haven’t mentioned it on this program, but in past programs we have, if you would like to donate, maybe you’re a regular person who donates to a PN American Pastors Network or stand in the Gap media, you can go to our site and donate or send it into us like you normally would and just add a note. Just say to go towards Pakistan Christians, and this will go directly to the people who are on the ground in Pakistan that work with Shaheryar. I cannot begin to tell you what a great team he has, people who have given sacrificially to be in a position to help stand up for these persecuted Christians like this, an incredible, incredible opportunity. And then as that’s going on, to be able to have this partnering from Christians in America would just be excellent opportunity for any of you who are interested in that.

Isaac Crockett:   I know my little church we’re just a tiny, tiny country church. When we heard about the situation with the Nazi Masi family, with this 5,000 member mob that attacked this family that killed the father of the family, a grandfather and the rest of the family had to flee for their lives. We couldn’t spend $20,000 to rebuild the shoe factory. That’s probably about what it would take a little bit less than that to rebuild their shoe factory that was destroyed. But we could send $200 a month and we were able to raise enough for about six months to send that. And that’s enough that and another church sending something similar to that to put them in a safe house. It’s not as nice a house as they used to live in and they can’t reopen their factory yet, but at least provides for them to get away from the immediate danger.

Isaac Crockett:   There are situations where a couple of thousand dollars could give a person the ability to open a shop or to drive a taxi type cart or different things like that. And then we have educating Christians. All of these would be investments into helping these Christians be able to sustain themselves in a way where they’re more protected, where they have an income in the case of this poor family, just to have a bathroom where they’re not going out in the same fields nearby where their son was murdered, where they’re worried for their children, that they could be taken in the same way where they and other families around them could use a bathroom and safety for a few hundred dollars, things like that. Shaya, again, another quick story. We met a guy who used to be a mechanic and a motorcycle racer and things, and he was shot, I think multiple times by Muslim men. And again, just kind of, he’s just a Christian and not a big deal to them. And now he’s left bedridden a picture of him on our Facebook. You see what he used to look like and what he is now. Could you tell us a little bit about that story and some of the need that there is in that situation?

Shaheryar Gill:   Yes, Isaac, again, a very tragic story. This young guy, young Christian, in fact, he used to do bicycle racing and the fact that he did that and he’s not paralyzed after he was shot by two Muslim men who did not like the way he talked to them and the way he responded to them, this a Christian man, Waka, he used to own a snack shop and during around Christmas time, I think it was New Year’s Eve in 2017, two Muslim men, they came to him, asked for that snack he made and he gave them the snack and they said, well, this is not fresh. Can you make us a new one? And he says, well, I’m busy right now. If you could wait. And they didn’t like the way he talked to them. He asked them to wait, how could a Christian ask them to wait? And then they started with religious slurs and then got into a fight with him and half an hour later they came and shot him four times. One of the bullets lodged in his spine and he was paralyzed. Since 2017, he has been paralyzed, he’s bedridden. And you saw, and in fact you mentioned the pictures probably on Facebook as well, he has this sanitary bag that’s always attached to him. He can’t go to the bathroom.

Shaheryar Gill:   His need is really, his family can’t afford. There have been bearing that expense for years now and this poor family can’t keep buying these bags for him. So I think even $50 a month for him would be sufficient to really help him buy those bags so that he can at least be comfort, would have comfort that his need on his bed where we don’t know whether he’s ever going to be healed, but we pray and we help him. We are still working on his case. Those guys who shot him, one of the guy was sentenced to 10 years in prison. The other one was acquitted by the court and we filed an appeal for him to be arrested and convicted as well. But again, while that’s going on, I think this Christian man can use our help as well.

Isaac Crockett:   And while I was there, I saw Americans, Christians from here in the States sending care packages to people over there, the fatherless to wives whose husbands are locked up in jail on death row because of false blasphemy allegation. Or the children whose fathers are again locked up in jail for the same thing, a false blasphemy allegation of families who one of the main breadwinners for an extended family is in jail or been killed. And the surviving men who are still in there, if they could have a special machine that would help them load bricks quicker or a little cart, a motorized cart where they could take people like a taxi, all these interesting little things. And for some of these things, for $20,000, a shoe factory could be rebuilt. Maybe somebody listening would say, I could do that, but maybe something like $10 a week or $200 a month to do some of these small things.

Isaac Crockett:   Somebody might be burdened to do that. And there are Christians doing some of that in some of these cases. But here, Shaheryar, your people are standing up protecting these folks in the judicial courts, but we’re praying that there might be some opportunities to also meet some of these other needs that these people have so they won’t continue to be at risk. So much to talk about. We are out of time though for this. I just want to close our program, Sam, I know we just have a moment here, but would you maybe close us real quick in prayer as we end our program?

Sam Rohrer:       Father, we commit these things to you right now. You know all of the details, we put it in your hand, touch the heart of those, some listening to be able to help, if not by prayer, by finances as well. In Jesus name, amen.

Isaac Crockett:   Amen. Thank you Sam,  Shaheryar Gill, thank you so much for being on the program with us. Thank you for listening and please pray for what is going on in Pakistan. And until next time, stand in the gap for truth, wherever you are.