Reclaiming the Church’s Call to Charity Amidst Corruption

Reclaiming the Church’s Call to Charity Amidst Corruption

March 28, 2025

Host: Dr. Isaac Crockett

Guest: Hon. Sam Rohrer

Note: This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program aired on 3/28/25. To listen to the podcast, click HERE.

Disclaimer: While reasonable efforts have been made to provide an accurate transcription, the following is a representation of a mechanical transcription and as such, may not be a word for word transcript. Please listen to the audio version for any questions concerning the following dialogue.

Isaac Crockett:

Well, hello and welcome to the program. I want to start with a little joke. I heard this a long time ago and I just heard it again recently and I got a kick out of it and I thought I’d share it with our topic today. But the story goes that there was a robber, I guess, in the Washington DC area, and he walked up to a man on the street and put a gun to him and said, Hey, stick ’em up. This is a holdup. Give me all your money. The man turned around and said, you don’t understand. I’m a congressman. He said, oh, okay. In that case, stick ’em up. Give me all my money back. I think sometimes we feel that way, that our politicians or our government leaders are just taking all of our money. Sometimes we feel like they’re stealing and kind of getting away with a lot of greed and things.

And so that’s part of the topic that we want to look at today. But ultimately, we want to go deeper into more applications and principles of things that we see in the news right now and take it through the lens of a biblical worldview and look at aspects of, for example, church and state and should they be separate or just how God has ordained for the church and for the government to work, and how are they expected to help those who are the least of these that Jesus talked about. So with that, I’m Pastor Isaac Crockett and joining me on the program today is our regular host of the program, the Honorable Sam Rohrer, president of the American Pastors Network. Sam, thanks for taking the time to be on the program again with all of us today.

Sam Rohrer:

Isaac, it is always a blessing to be with you when we generally on these Friday programs where we have a tendency to kind of have ability to look back maybe to what’s happened on the other programs here, the standard gap today programs during the week and all that is happening. So yeah, I look forward to talking with you today.

Isaac Crockett:

Well, Sam, ever since November when Trump was elected, even before he was elected, Trump was campaigning on reforms, getting rid of corruption and getting rid of wasteful spending. And I think it’s been kind of unexpected in the first few weeks of his pregnancy or pregnancy, his presidency, but that we’re seeing all these reports about Elon Musk and department of those of government efficiency and all this. But one of the surprising things is that it has hit a lot of faith-based organizations that are involved with missional work or humanitarian relief and things. And so it’s been very interesting to watch as Elon Musk and the Doge team goes into cleanup wastefulness what this means. And so that’s going to be kind of our broader look today is reclaiming the church’s call to charity amidst times of corruption, which it appears we’re in. But I do want to just kind of start with Elon Musk and the Department of Government Efficiency and some of what’s going on there. So as we look at what is happening there, what are some of the positive things that you see, Sam, that we’ve been maybe hoping for a while that is coming out of this group?

Sam Rohrer:

Well, I think a couple of things. Number one, even asking the question of can we do what we are doing better is always a question from a stewardship perspective, it’s a responsibility of every person who’s in office, every congressman, every senator, every time, every president, every time they go through the budgetary process, by the way, which has not been done for over a decade, and that’s a problem. These continuing resolutions avoid one of the internal requirements to evaluate how money is being spent. That’s a different issue, but it’s tied into this. But so to ask the question, can we do it better? Absolutely it’s fundamental. Number two, can we do it more efficiently, which is DOGE Doge E efficiency? The answer is yes, that is absolutely legitimate. So part’s great. I think one of the things that are happening is that that perspective makes a big difference.

So a musk being from a corporate perspective, Trump being from a corporate perspective primarily brings that into effect, and that is not the way government generally thinks. Those in government think entitlement. They do not think accountability, they just don’t. So when you come in and say, all right, we’re going to clean this up and we’re going to change it, and nothing is sacred from the standpoint, if we can do it better, we’ll do it better. That independent aspect of what we see at hand is also a good thing. The other thing I think is Isaac, I don’t think there’s a problem with using the ability of technology actually apply some algorithms as they’re doing and actually going through and to quickly evaluate the expenditures of funds by department, by fund down to the individual recipient. No, I think that’s an important thing to be done. So some of these things I think are good.

Isaac Crockett:

Are there any negatives that you see with this? And maybe we want to go even broader just to Elon Musk and his influence on Trump and the White House and the influence of putting more into artificial intelligence.

Sam Rohrer:

Well, that’s a whole big area. We could really go further on that. The answer is there is a very, very big downside potential, which I think is actually happening, and that is this. The president has made himself his own self with a commitment of $500 billion. That was done a day after the inauguration with guys like Sam Altman and these other fellows, these oligarchs, these technocrat oligarchs involved with artificial intelligence. That group is the group that right after the inauguration got the commitment of the administration to proceed in the implementation of broad-based AI development. How is that going to be used? Well, they have already said it’s going to be infused within education, not education, but healthcare. It will involve digitized monetary funds and handling things that’ll involved in travel. So it’s basically an all-encompassing entity. Now, this is where I think it’s going to go Musk who’s also of that mindset, 100%, that’s where he is, that the efforts of Doge and what is taking place to find and identify egregious examples of fraud and social security to people who are 200 years old, that kind of thing.

As we’ve heard that the firing of people in the departments because we don’t need them and obviously the federal government’s bloated, I think what you’re going to find is that artificial intelligence will be brought to bear as the integrated system for government management. It will replace people, it will replace systems. And I believe because they’ve already said it effectively, it will ultimately become the consummate definition of efficiency. DOGE efficiency, think AI with efficiency. That is going to be both good and very, very bad because it replaces people. AI has no conscience and there’s a whole lot of things involved in it of that nature. But I think that’s a very big downside coming out of all of this. And here’s the other thing, Isaac. I think in the meantime of this, while you tear down what is, which effectively is what’s taking place, you’re dismantling government as it has become because it’s become something never intended. I don’t believe the mindset of AI or Musk or any, most of those on board understand how government was first instructed or is to be run according to biblical worldview, and so they don’t know how to rebuild it.

Isaac Crockett:

Well, those are great points, Sam, and actually that’s where I want to get to in our upcoming segment. We’re going to take a quick time out, hear from some of our partners, and when we come back, let’s talk about that. Let’s ask Sam about mixing government funded aid and Christian ministries. Let’s talk about a biblical worldview separation of powers, but also separation of church and state. A lot to talk about when we come back on standing the gap today. Well, welcome back to the program. I’m Pastor Isaac Crockett and joining me today is the honorable Sam Rohr, the president of the Pastor’s Network. And we’re talking about what happens when the church doesn’t get involved in charity the way they should. We’re calling this Ask Sam program, reclaiming the church’s call to charity amidst corruption. And in the midst of all this department of government efficiency that has been out in the news shedding light on corruption and wasteful spending, it’s also affecting some Christian organizations.

And so you’ve probably heard about this already, but there’s a press, an article from the Associated Press called Christian Aid Groups Receive Millions in USA ID funds. Now their humanitarian work is collapsing, and I want to ask Sam about this, but let me read some different paragraphs from this article. One of them says that two of the 12 largest non-governmental recipients of U-S-A-I-D funds are faith-based. This article goes on, it lists those two, it says Catholic Relief Services and World Vision. These Christian nonprofits serve millions of people globally and provide food, water, and healthcare and conflict zone. So there are groups like that that are receiving government funds. This article is talking about that. Now they don’t know what to do and some of the funds are still going through, but a lot of the funds are being canceled. There’s waivers that are going to continue to help people out.

So now later in the article, they quote Franklin Graham, so I’m going to pick up in the article again. Franklin Graham and evangelical leader who prayed at both of Donald Trump’s presidential inaugurations runs Samaritan’s Purse, an evangelical humanitarian organization that has received USA ID funds. Graham said in his statement that the details of the waiver process are not yet clear. Samaritan’s Purse has not stopped its emergency food and medical programs overseas. He noted, and less than 5% of the organization’s 2024 funding came from government grants. It goes on in Franklin. Grant says, he says, I think it’s a good thing for the government to assess and re-examine the various programs that the US is funding around the world. And if Graham said, we trust that the new leadership will analyze all of the information and make good decisions. Alright, so Sam, this is rocking some of the missions world, some of these large organizations that are out there doing humanitarian relief. What do you think about Christian organizations accepting funds from the taxpayers, from the government, and with that, can this lead to conditions being imposed on these faith-based groups? Or in other words, if we take money from the government, could that lead to us having strings attached, do you think?

Sam Rohrer:

Okay, Isaac. I think not only could it, it’s an absolute certainty that it would, and it’s not just Christian organizations, it’s any organization. And here is the reason you use the word strings attached. Okay? What we’re finding, what is being discovered here with the musk and looking at where the money’s been going, they have identified also the strings attached. You could actually say that the strings attached are an illicit methodology for political power to accomplish their ideological goals through some other entity. They don’t care whether it’s religious or not. The inside group, that’s what’s being found. But I’m going to say that even if you had a government where it was filled with people of integrity that we’re not looking to bribe or to use a front group to basically launder funds, as we have seen through some of this exposure, a person in government, if they were person of integrity, would need to and should periodically determine whether or not the funds which didn’t come from government, but came from the taxpayer first and then flowed through government, were actually being used as they were intended to use. So either way, either those who take government funds must expect and they will experience government telling them what to do with those funds. It’s not a matter of if, it’s just a matter of when.

Isaac Crockett:

Can you think of any situations where that maybe has happened or could likely happen in some of these agencies?

Sam Rohrer:

Well, in some of these agencies, yes, as an example. Well, one that I know of that’s been a real issue, it came from one of these groups. I actually had somebody that was at the Samaritans that was confirmed in an earlier, I think a World Vision group years ago when I’d interfaced with them. And that was that government then had placed a requirement that even though they may have had a mission statement of the communication of the gospel, I’m taking this to a Christian group, the communication of the gospel as a means of telling people about Christ, the underpinning of what theoretically is a Christian ministry, that’s what they ought to be involved in. They were told, if you take this fund, you cannot do that. You cannot volunteer your workers when they interface with somebody on the ground in some other country or wherever.

You cannot bring up the name of Christ. Well, that’s a real big issue, but we’ll compromise with you. If they happen to bring it up to you and say, tell us about Christ, well then you can respond to them, but you cannot bring it up. Alright, well these groups had to deal with that. And some would say, well, you know what? I think I could use a million dollars effectively, or 10 million or a hundred million effectively from government. Does it really make that much of a big of a deal in my ministry? Well, yeah, a little bit, but I can still talk to them about Christ, which is with purpose for being. I guess I’ll just wait and hope that by my good actions people will ask me. Alright, well that’s a big compromise. That’s a big compromise. In some cases they went further and some of these groups were not Samaritans, but some of these other groups, Lutheran Catholic Services, in other words, they were heavily, heavily, heavily involved in defending the Obama governments and the Biden governments of the past in bringing illegals across the border. They defended it. They defended it, but they were also told with these funds, you must be involved in that. So whether they had an issue with violating immigration law of our country or not, they did and they were heavy recipients of it. So those are just a couple I can think of.

Isaac Crockett:

Well, Sam, we often talk about mixing church and state and some people that are very concerned about that, but with these nonprofit Christian ministries, there are ones out there that are listed in this being given contracts by U-S-A-I-D and things like that. And I’m curious, many of those are still going around to Christians and to churches asking for support. When congregations or Christian individuals find out about their involvement with government funds, how do you think that affects the Christians who are giving to it? It seems like you’re saying that some of these groups are getting bloated or growing financially because they took these contracts. Could that hurt the donor who was giving to them?

Sam Rohrer:

Well, I think it clearly affects the mentality. If you’re talking about a Christian minister who we are right now helping the poor, helping somebody in need, the answer is yes. But here’s where I think the greatest harm is done. When government funds are used and a Christian entity is tying in with that, you have moved your dependency from God to government. And we know that all through history, government and those in government have always been about making them and making the people believe that they are God. It doesn’t go just to Caesar who thought he was God in their days of Roman era or Nebuchadnezzar who made everybody bow down to him to worship as king. It’s inherent within human government that is not committed to the fear of God and executing the purposes of government as God has intended, they believe and they work towards as if they are God. So when a Christian entity says, I want to take your money, it’s not their money anyways, government’s money, but I’m going to go there as my source. There is whether there is a conscious or an unconscious, but there is absolutely a transfer of dependency that moves from where it must be God to government. It’s just what happens.

Isaac Crockett:

So that dependency, you start transferring it to the government instead of God using his people to give it. Do you think that that can then also transfer the priorities, this kind of strings attached part away from the spiritual goals? So we’re using humanitarian efforts to get the gospel there that then all of a sudden it just becomes what we used to be called a social gospel, that the main goal is just to meet humanitarian needs. Does that make sense? Is that a possible shift that could happen?

Sam Rohrer:

Yes. Yes. Just like when you just asked me, were there any requirements or strings attached to the funds, there are always strings attached to the funds. So yes, even the slightest compromise instead of we are going to carry out the gospel of Jesus Christ, we are going to take the message, we’re going to help people in times of need, and while we hand them a loaf of bread, we’re going to say in Jesus’ name, we hand you this loaf of bread or however it may be that kind of a direct communication they already have to compromise and say, well, we can’t do that. We’re going to disassociate that. So yes, there is a move away from the gospel as described in scripture to another type of a good deeds type of thing, but does not have the gospel as the lead message.

Isaac Crockett:

Well, this is very important. I think what we’re talking about right now as we’re watching the news and we’re seeing some of this playing out in real time, it’s important for us to stop and to say, what does the Bible say? What does my biblical worldview teach me on how to respond to this? So we’re going to take another break to hear from some of our partners when we come back. We want to look at the importance of churches working to help what Jesus calls the least of these and that Christians helping spread the gospel through humanitarian aid, not just doing the aid but getting the gospel which is even greater than the human needs that are being met. Well, welcome back to the program. I’m Isaac Crockett and joining me as my co-host today, the regular host of our program is the Honorable Sam Rohr.

And if you’re listening via radio right now, I just want to remind you that you can also catch the archives of this program on the podcast platforms or on our website. And you can share this with maybe younger family members who listen to things off of their smartphones. One of the best ways to do that is to download or to tell people about our Stand in the Gap app. It’s an app for the smartphones and whether you’re using a smartphone that you could download that app or you could encourage other people to download it or send it to them. And then another thing is on our social media, you could look us up for example on Facebook staying in the gap today. Look up what’s going on on Facebook, get some of the information and news of what’s happening and be able to share it with other people.

A lot of neat things you can do. Listening to the radio is an amazing tool. God used Christian radio to help get ahold of my dad’s heart and the life of sin, and he came to the Lord through that. But nowadays we have so many other digital things that can help younger generations and interactive and sending people parts of our programs and things. So just a lot of neat things you could do. I’d highly, highly encourage you to look at downloading the Stand in the Gap app or sharing it with somebody and love that you would like for them to be listening to this as well. Well, we’ve been talking today, Sam and I, and if you’re just joining us, thanks for joining. We’ve been looking at, I’m asking Sam questions. It’s Ask Sam Friday edition. We’ve been looking at reclaiming the church’s call to charity amidst corruption.

It’s no surprise if you watch the news that we’ve been seeing a lot of corruption being uncovered by the Department of Government efficiency. We talked about some of the potential issues that could come from some of the AI things and all that, these equations that are being used to make the government more efficient, but there are a lot of corrupt and wasteful things happening right now. But with that, it has come to light that U-S-A-I-D has been funding some Christian humanitarian aid groups and there are some now issues going on where it looks like they may not be able to continue operating the way they’re used to because of the lack of government funding. We’ve been talking about the right way for the government to respond to things and the right way for the church or respond. What does a biblical worldview say? And Sam, you’ve been talking about being careful of strings attached. Well, Sam, I want to get back to the heart of this issue. I want to look at the biblical worldview. I want to look at applications of these biblical principles. And I want to ask you this, Sam, when it comes to Christians and us supporting groups and helping people in time of need, particularly Christians, but especially God’s church, the universal church, the Bible, believing churches, do we have a calling to reach out to people who are in need? Can we say that as a Christian principle,

Sam Rohrer:

Isaac? I think we absolutely can, but I’m going to say make sure it’s in this order. And that is because of genuine faith in Christ, the true believer, the true church will be involved in caring for and helping to meet the needs of those who are about them when they can. It’s not looking to help to meet the needs, give people food and whatever that may be in order to earn the favor of God. And you and I talked about it before, it used to be the days of the social gospel. It’s still out there many who believe that they are working their way to heaven. They have to prove that they’re good enough. Well that doesn’t work. Those people will stand before God One day we’re told of Matthew and they’ll stand before the Lord and they’ll say, but Lord, didn’t we do all these good things in your name helping the poor and even did miracles in some cases?

And the Lord will say, depart from me, you worker of inequity. I never knew you say wow, a worker of inequity. Well that’s because when in Jesus’ name deeds, caring for the poor, and I’ll give such some examples in scripture of where that is done when we do it in a right way, not for ourselves, not for our institution, but for Christ himself. That is a reflection and an outworking of deeds being proof of true salvation. What most of these groups are involved in are not carrying out the gospel. They’re involved in a good profitable venture. I’m just looking at here, Catholic relief services. And part of that article which you read from the US government funded nearly half of their 2023 budget of 1.2 billion. This is big business. And so the order is correct. I mean the order’s got to be right. So anyways, let’s go back here.

What’s an example? Well, one of the examples is I think in scripture we find is the good Samaritan. This individual along the road was in need and the religious leaders walked by and they were heart of heart. And here this Samaritan walked by and he gave, okay, that was an example of we should be looking for those in need. Jesus probably one of the best examples that’s there. Jesus said in Matthew 25, 34 to 36, he talks there, he says, when I was hungry, you gave me something to eat when I was thirsty. And when you do this for anyone a need, you do it as to me. That is an example that is built in one. John, the book one John chapter three, verse 17 and 18. It talks there about if anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him?

So there is a connection, Isaac, clearly with the church, with a relationship with Jesus Christ and understanding that we are able to help with those physical needs that are there, but it’s done in pointing people to Jesus Christ. When we don’t do it, it’s as if you don’t have any real salvation. If we do it to earn our way to heaven, we’re not doing it for the right reason. And Jesus says, depart from me. I never knew you. So it’s a very clear function of the church, but it’s also very clear for the motivation by which we do it.

Isaac Crockett:

I love that. And we can look back to church history as well and see, even in the Roman Empire, there were plagues in the second and third century when the church was still just brand new, just kind of a baby still. And those plagues, when they came, a lot of people just got up and left that area that was being hit. And many Christians stayed or went to the areas that were hit with the plagues and their goal was to minister to the dying and to see souls accept Christ, which did happen. But also, interestingly enough, herd immunity and things like that they look at now historians think helped play a part in the church growing. And the church really grew by going to those people who were being left to basically to die and trying to meet their needs, but then also letting them know about Christ.

And in some cases they got to know Christ before they died. In other cases they healed and the Lord healed them and they came back. But very, very interesting when we could spend a lot of time going down that rabbit hole of church history and helping the least of these. But let me go back to talking about corruption and wastefulness. When these things are exposed in humanitarian aid, especially when it comes to government funding being exposed, the wastefulness there, how does that reinforce the importance of churches and Christians stepping up to being the ones providing for charitable needs? I mean, just a few weeks ago we had Doug Radford from Harvesters on and we were talking about the work they’re doing in the DRC, the Democratic Republic of Congo, where Christians are being mistreated, many people are being mistreated, and he was saying they received no government funding in an area that has been very corrupt and taken over by some really bad groups in spite of large numbers of United Nations, peacekeeping organizations there. But he’s there funded by gospel, believing Christians, and that makes all the difference. And so what is the importance that you could tell our listeners of Bible believing Christians putting their money where their mouth is, so to speak when it comes to this?

Sam Rohrer:

Well, Isaac, not only is it the believer who should be looking and taking the lead and helping, but I’m going to say in church leaders, church leaders, those who stand up and preach us, what we’re doing right now, what we’re doing is an important thing. And that is God in a biblical worldview, God has aligned these authorities in society. The government never under God’s economy was given the responsibility of doing the function of the church, the communicating of the gospel to carrying out meeting the needs of the poor and these things that we’re talking about. That was a purpose of the church government’s role, was to protect the freedom of those in the church, to do the function of the church. Just like the family is not a creation of government, the government is not to give welfare to the people. That’s not the function of government, that’s the church to come alongside.

But government’s function is to provide every opportunity for fathers and mothers to raise up their children, to train them, not to overtax them so they can’t afford to raise them, all of those things. It’s when these functions and the purposes and the roles of authority, government, church, and home are not maintained, not taught and maintained. And how is it maintained well by the church and church leaders that teach? This is what God says. It used to be done in our nation, but we’ve moved so far away from it now you have church leaders, religious organizations rather than going to church, why not go to government? Because there’s more money in government. And if you have people in government, congressmen and others who pass the laws who forget and walk away from what God says, well why not then take tax dollars from people and spend it in things like foreign aid? Is that the purpose of government? No, no, it’s not the purpose of government. Well, they got the money. Yeah, they got the money. But what is that in reality, it’s theft, stealing money, taking money from the people to be used for functions that are not ordained of God for that entity. So all of these things is a biblical worldview. It brings us right back to God’s word.

Isaac Crockett:

Well, Sam, this is why it’s so important that we pray for our government leaders and that we try to support Bible believing Christians to be involved because this is really quite deep. There’s so much going on here. Well, we’re going to take another quick time out and hear from some of our partners and we want to come back and wrap things up right here on Stand the Gap today. Welcome back to our program. I’m Pastor Isaac Crockett, joined by the president of the American Pastors Network and the regular host of this program, the Honorable Sam Rohr. And we’ve been talking today about the church and the charity corruption situation that’s going on. We’ve seen so much corruption being exposed right now, especially with Elon Musk and the Department of Government Efficiency, not something really new. I think most presidential administrations down through recent history have said that this is the kind of stuff they want to expose, have said that this is kind of the thing they want to do, but it’s happening right now.

And we talked through some of the ramifications of it, but Sam, we’re looking from a biblical worldview at how this applies to the church at how this applies to Christians supporting charity, getting our hands dirty, so to speak, going out there and helping the least of these that Jesus talks about when we do it unto them, we’re doing it unto him. And so let me just play a little bit of the devil’s advocate from some of the things you’ve already talked about, Sam, and then kind of wrap this up. But if I am a Christian nonprofit group and I’m going out there with humanitarian aid in order to get the gospel, what we call the Great Commission, God has commissioned us as his disciples to go into all the world making disciples, baptizing in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit teaching them all these things.

They get saved, baptized, taught, discipled, and we say, well, we’re going to go and we may not be able to do miracles like Jesus, but we can meet needs like Jesus was doing when he fed the 5,000 or something like that. And so Sam, here I am, if I’m the director of one of those organizations and I have an opportunity for a grant from the government or a contract from the government, that would be millions of dollars. And over the last few years, I think we’ve even seen billions of dollars going to these groups. Just think of all the ministries, just think of all the people, all the poor impoverished people that we could help with that money. But Sam, you’re saying kind of like the old song, take the world, but give me Jesus. If in exchange for all of that money to meet all these human needs, I’m not allowed to give the greatest help. That is the great commission, then it’s not worth it. And you’re also saying that the church and the government are two different entities meant to do different things. I know you were explaining that in the last segment, but could you maybe bring that back together for our audience and tell us biblically, what is this alignment that should bring us back to the great commission?

Sam Rohrer:

You summarized that very well, I think Isaac, but I think there’s this part of it when we’re asking the question now what should we do? What should the church do? And we’re looking down at this and say, should the church, should a Christian ministry take government funds? What should be? Well, here’s how I would establish it hierarchically. If we’re asking that question, we’re asking the right question. Alright, but where do we go? It’s the word of God that gives us, that must be our guide. So what does the Bible say? Well, first of all is that’s the part of God has created authority structures within all society. He has prescribed their duties, their roles, their distinctions, their differences. Civil government is over all of society. God’s given them the sword. They have two jobs, praise those who do well and allow them to do well.

It’s all a part of that. That is a government that is doing what God says to do a civil government. It protects the right of the church to do what God has told the church to do. And what has God told the church to do? Well go you unto all the world and preach the gospel to. So it’s the communication of the gospel, number one. And then what follows the communication of the gospel in a society is that people come to faith in Christ and freedom results that always follows. And then within that, then in that setting they’re then taught to establish local churches and they meet the need of the people in their own areas. And that’s God’s model to then duplicate. And then you go from there, alright, and then I’m not going to get into the family. But that’s the same thing applies for the roles of the family, but church and government, that is what it is.

So it’s incumbent upon those in government and those in the church to be always recalibrating themselves with the standard God’s word, with what he says. And first things must always be kept first. So as I said earlier, as you just said, the communication of the gospel take the gospel into all the world. That’s number one. What I quoted earlier about, well, if you truly have faith, your deeds will show it. And one of the ways your deeds will show it is that if you have the means, you will help those who are in need and giving help to those who are in need. Okay? That is a secondary point to the gospel. Doing those kinds of good works, those good deeds, meeting those needs is a proof of, and it’s in order. But if in the taking of government money, the church has to say, well, what God told me to do first, my first thing, I’m going to put that on the back burner and hope that I may be able to get around to it someday.

But then everything’s all that’s backwards. So it’s the church and those in government, those who are able to hand out the church, able to put their hand out intake from that perspective, they must both know what should be, but they most also, this is important, I think be disciplined not to do, nor to attempt the other to do something that God has not told them to do. In other words, for the church to go to government in any fashion and say, can you help me is wrong. And for anyone in government who knows, should know what God says. And to go to the church and says, would you like to have some money? I can help you. They cannot do that discipline that we do not do. That which God has not told us to do is as important as doing what God has told us to do.

But that’s all an outgrowth of what the word of God says, a biblical worldview. And that frankly is the role of the church and the pulpit to tell and teach people this is what God says. That’s why if we have a choice, we elect true believers into positions of authority and government. Not those who say they are, but those who truly are believers who then can think like we’re just talking right now, that understanding is the only thing that can keep government doing what government’s supposed to do, limited and small, focused and firm and the church doing what only the church can do focused and firm. And I’ll stop right there, but it’s that balance that has to be there and always regularly recalibrated.

Isaac Crockett:

Sam, as you’re talking, I’m just thinking about how exciting it is that we as God’s church, the bride of Christ, we have that responsibility. And I’m so thankful for the millions of Christians out there who take that responsibility very seriously and what they’re doing and what they’re doing to help and the difference that they’re making. And it’s times like these that we see that come to fruition. Well, Sam, we are coming quickly to the close of our program. I want to turn it over to you for any final thoughts and if there’s time that you could close us in prayer as we finish out today.

Sam Rohrer:

Well, Isaac, I think number one, just thank you for bringing up this theme. It is out there. It is not being addressed because it is easier for frankly, for people to take and walk by sight. Taking money from government is walking by sight, depending only on God. And those and God’s people is walking by faith. It’s always easier to walk by faith, but we’re cold. We’re commanded to walk by faith and walk by sight. Heavenly Father, thank you for this opportunity to address and to look at this issue which you’ve covered in your word. May those who listen have better understanding now and may we all commit ourselves to doing your word your way. In Jesus name.

Isaac Crockett:

Amen. Well, thank you very much for that, Sam. Thank you so much for listening and please pray for all of us here and for all of the ministries at the American Pastors Network and stand in the gap media. And until next time, I hope that you will take a stand for what is right wherever you are.