Be Ye Holy For I Am Holy:
An Archaic Hope or Divine Requirement?
April 7, 2025
Host: Hon. Sam Rohrer
Guest: Dr. Renton Rathbun
Note: This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program aired on 4/7/25. To listen to the podcast, click HERE.
Disclaimer: While reasonable efforts have been made to provide an accurate transcription, the following is a representation of a mechanical transcription and as such, may not be a word for word transcript. Please listen to the audio version for any questions concerning the following dialogue.
Sam Rohrer:
Hello and welcome to this Monday edition of Stand in A Gap Today and this month’s emphasis on biblical worldview education and apologetics. That is our theme for today. It’s our monthly emphasis, and it is again with our special guest, Dr. Renton Rathbun, who is a speaker and a consultant on biblical worldview instruction for BJU Press. I was thinking now with Easter Sunday, just a couple of weeks away, it makes me to think of the significance of the special. I’m turning a button here to, pardon me if I just sidetracked for a minute. With Easter Sunday in just a couple of weeks, it makes me think of the significance of this special occasion that the world acknowledges that matter of Easter, but I think few understand and that is the unfathomable enormity of the heavenly judicial and earthly practical implications of the crucifixion of Christ and his death and his burial, and his glorious resurrection from the dead.
There are of course many, I’m going to say inexhaustible applications that we could make to this event. But today I want to focus on an essential component of this event which relates to the ongoing fulfillment of God’s greater plan of redemption promised of this event. Easter is a part of this part promised event which God promised to a fallen and a dead and a sinful mankind, which he did in Genesis three 15. It is the aspect of God’s holiness and his righteousness and his righteous and perfect nature, whereby the God of justice demands the penalty of death for sin. But in his justice, he remembers mercy and he extends his love in the offer of salvation for all who would accept his only way through the death of his perfect and sinless son on the cross then as a sign of acceptance raised him from the dead on Easter Sunday morning, 2000 years ago, the holiness of God where upon God stated in both Leviticus 19, two in the Old Testament, in two Peter one 16 in the New Testament, the exact same words, be ye holy, for I am holy. The title I’ve chosen for today’s program is this, be ye Holy, for I Am Holy, an archaic hope or divine requirement. And with that I welcome to the program again, Dr. Renton Rathbun. Renton. Thanks for being back with me today.
Renton Rathbun:
Well, thanks for having me on this important subject,
Sam Rohrer:
Renton. In our modern culture, the word holy or holiness is a foreign notion I think where people would most likely understand the word is meaning things like blue jeans purchased new but with holes in them. That’s what they would call holy. But then the word of God holy is something entirely different, including the concept of being perfect or without holes. In fact, holy appears 544 times in the Bible and the word holiness 43, that’s in the King James version of the Bible. So let’s get started with this like we generally do the definition, what is the definition of holy or holiness Renton?
Renton Rathbun:
Well, what confuses people the most about this term is that it’s used primarily in scripture, especially in the Hebrew as how to separate. In fact, in the Hebrew it is the word to cut to set apart. So we typically think of holiness as being separated from sin and living in purity, the purity of God’s righteousness, which that’s a great definition that we can have. But we also have to remember God was holy long before there was anything to be separated from. So he was holy long before there was any sin, long before there was anything that was impure at all because all that existed was God himself. So we also have to see that through the book of John, especially the gospel of John. What you see is this unmitigated love or devotion between the persons of the Trinity Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. They are and always will be devoted to each other. And this devotion is understood in love. And so in other words, God’s holiness at its root is God’s absolute devotion to himself as one worthy of that devotion.
Sam Rohrer:
Alright, let’s build on that further. So based on the definition, the concept of holiness, it’s basically saying it’s an undivided, it’s uncut, it is the character and the nature of the triune God as you were saying. And it starts with God’s nature, therefore, and then from there it extends outward. So since in one sense holy means to be separated, we can get into that. The Old Testament contains references to God, separating to himself many things from well nations to cities, to holy garments, to holy utensils, to holy buildings, to holy concentration of days of observance and more. But in the command in both Leviticus 19 two and two, Peter one 16 where it says it is written, be ye holy, for I am holy, it makes the application written of holiness and holy very personal. Here’s my further question in this segment, the verses say, be ye holy for I am holy, not be ye holy as I am holy. There’s a difference there. Would you explain this distinction before we move into a further consideration of be ye holy?
Renton Rathbun:
So when we think about what it means for God to be holy, long before there was anything else, we see this devotion he has to himself amongst the trinity because of his worthiness of that devotion like you rightly said, to be separated to God is be devoted to God and not devoted to the things of the world. So we see this in God’s motion to himself in that he does not fail us, but when we fail him. So we see this in Timothy two 13, that he cannot deny himself. And so even though we might fail him, he will not fail us because he has devoted to himself and he has devoted us to himself. So even his promises are secure because of his devotion to himself. In Psalms 10, one says, and this is why God commands us to be holy as or holy for he is the holy one. So it’s not just an activity that we are copying his activity, it really is we are trying to imitate God as he is devoted to himself.
Sam Rohrer:
Alright ladies and gentlemen, we’re going to build this out a little bit. You may be thinking, what do you understand? I mean, holiness starts with God and it extends outward, which is why it says be holy for because I am holy. We’re going to in the next segment, move now into, well, the whole concept of holiness, our culture and where it began, why we are where we are, where it’s not understood. And then we will build further concluding at the end ultimately in how to teach it, how to actually live holiness in front of our children and well those that we should. So we’ll be back in just a moment, Steve. Well if you’re just joining us today, thanks for being on board. My special guest again is Dr. Renton Wrath Bunny joins me about, well generally once a month by normal planning what we do, where we concentrate on the area of, I say biblical worldview education and apologetics.
And if you were to go to our website, stand in the gap radio.com or on our app Stand in the Gap, you can go back and can search all of the programs we have done on matters of truth, what it means to fear God, pragmatism, the one we did a month ago on the deconstruction of our faith, a powerful program, all of very practical items, little discussed, but necessarily they should be discussed. This one today is in that category as well where we’ve taken the theme of holy or holiness and the theme and the title is this Be ye Holy for I am Holy. Is it just an archaic hope or is it perhaps a divine requirement? We’re answering that question. There are times, ladies and gentlemen, throughout human history where it was a bit more culturally understood holiness that is as to the meaning of what it means to be holy or holiness.
Certainly the nation of Israel long ago was introduced to the concept of being holy when God first told them in Leviticus 19 six that they were to be a holy nation separated and distinct from other nations with a holy, separate and distinct form of worship, a holy thinking and living people with holy sabbaths and holy days of consecration. And God told the Jews and the nation that they were to be different, not just because they were of the seed of Abraham, but because God chose them to be distinctively different or holy. In our own nation, our founders came close to understanding this concept as the definition of holy that you can find. In 1828, Webster’s Dictionary at the beginning of our country was written where it gives this definition, holy means to be whole W-H-O-L-E whole and entire or perfect in a moral sense goes on to say sense hence pure in heart and temper and disposition, free from sin and sinful affections.
This is the definition 1828 Webster’s dictionary goes on to say we call a man holy when his heart is conformed in some degree to the image of God and his life is regulated by the divine precepts. The Bible hence holy is used as nearly synonymous with good, pious or godly. So they’re saying a holy person, holy man at one point was a good man, was a godly man. Hear anybody describe like that in these days, Renton, when you look around and through human history, there were times like this when the concept of God and holiness were more understood and there were times when it was little understood from an historical fill in whatever you want, what else perhaps was occurring in the eras where the concept of holiness was better understood and lived out.
Renton Rathbun:
As you look through human history, you find times where the church had a period of relative power. So one example of this would be before the reformation, you had a time the medieval times where the term holiness ended up because of the power of the church ended up being redefined in a way that would allow a group to gain more power. In other words, the laws and the rules were shifted from being demonstrated as devotion to God to the laws and rules being a demonstration of a devotion to an institution. And so that’s where you have Martin Luther hammering those 95 these to the door of Wittenberg because he is saying all the rules and regulations that the church has put together is to connect us through this institution and they have nothing to do with connecting us to acting like God. And so you see the reformation come, well that brings a lot of persecution.
Now during times of persecution, that’s when devotion is clearly seen. What are you going to be devoted to? Because now it’s going to cost you something. So typically someone is held in a position where they must either show their devotion to an institution or show their devotion God himself. And in doing that, oftentimes it costs them their life or their home. And that’s where you see the pilgrims coming to America because they are trying to demonstrate a devotion to their God that the laws and regulations that they are trying to hold to in their behavior is to show their devotion to God, not to an institution. And even the definition you read was highly influenced by that idea all the way back into the 16th, 17th centuries.
Sam Rohrer:
Okay, that makes sense. That’s great. From the standpoint of specifying personal holiness, the part we’re focusing on today relates to a person’s relationship to God himself, not to an institution as can often be used to control people. Alright, with that being the case now looking at America, we were more truly biblically wholly in thinking at one point than we are now in this 21st century for sure, where holy is not even a word that most people even know what it means. They think it’s holy. In your genes, where does holiness in the concept of being holy rank among the things from your perspective viewed as important by this generation, which I’ve already kind of said is I think it’s got to be low in the totem pole, put it that way. But how did we get to this point?
Renton Rathbun:
Today you have a massive revival of what’s called antinomianism. That’s a big word for really just, it just means against the law, against law. The law that we’re referring to is God’s law or God’s commandments, the same law that David said he loved and the same law that God has told his people to be devoted to him through. So in the 21st century we have a huge drop off of church attendance and then we have from that a brand new breed of pastors and churches that come out and say, we need a new marketing scheme and this marketing scheme is going to have to do with not needing all these regulations and all these rules that the Bible comes up with. And so you had a lot of boards advertising churches saying Christianity is not a religion, it’s a relationship. And what they’re really getting to with that phrase, as we can argue about that phrase later, what they’re trying to get at is it’s not just a bunch of rules, it’s a relationship as if there are no rules and laws with relationships.
And what they were trying to get at was this idea that God has saved you without any works of your own. And I think we could all agree with that, but what they wanted to move on to is therefore you need no other works. Just look back on how God saved you, be happy with that and live your life. You don’t have to think about all of these commands that are in the Bible, all that stuff that’s just going to turn you into a pharisee. And what you’d need is to love God and love others and in order to love others, you have to release all these commandments that are all over the Bible. Now you might think, well how could they do that? Well, all you have to do is just make sure that all the commandments that you don’t like in the Bible are somehow tied to a cultural issue at the time. So Paul was kind of a sexist, so we got to keep that in mind. So we will ignore all the stuff you said about wives submitting to their husbands and husbands leading. That’s just his culture. And so they culturalize everything that they don’t like so that we don’t have to have these regulations and laws that go with any relationship if you ask me. But that’s how we have the church as we do today because they found a way to market it in a way that would be a lot more palatable to everybody.
Sam Rohrer:
In the next segment, Renton, we’re going to get into understanding holiness, God’s expectations for it and build that out more specifically. But in the last program I refer to it, the last program you and I did, it was on deconstruction of faith. I can’t help but understand and think when you are describing what you’re talking about, people saying, well, it’s a relationship as a technique of almost a deconstruction of faith where we move ourselves away from God and God’s word as the final standard to something that we are comfortable with. Does that make sense? Does that right?
Renton Rathbun:
That’s exactly right. And even to go back to your question, how did we even get here? I think we got here because during long period of peace where the church had some power during the 20th century, Christian institutions began to rise up and holiness began to be redefined as devotion to the institution instead of God. And so people turned from that, that turned them off, got them upset. And so instead of going back to God, they said, how do we get back to us? How do I do my own self-care? And so from there you have this whole turn of events to antinomianism instead of the holiness that God demands.
Sam Rohrer:
Alright ladies and gentlemen, I hope your mind is in gear and you’re thinking along with us holiness, we defined it. God said in the Old Testament, Leviticus New Testament, Peter be ye holy. This is God saying be ye holy for because I am holy. Alright, well is that just a nice idea or is it requirement? If it’s a requirement, how well are we doing overall? Not too well. I think next segment we’re going to talk about that a little bit more and understanding God’s expectation. Alright, Renton, there’s probably, as you and I talked before the program and as we pray about what to focus on when we are together, you made the statement, I made the statement, we both concur that there probably is no greater concept or something to be understood than it is this matter of holy and holiness. And when God makes a command like he did in Titus and repeated in the New Testament in two Peter, be ye holy for I am holy that the stakes are pretty high.
There’s a verse in the book of Hebrews that I found in preparation for this program and talking as we were thinking it through, that puts the concept of holiness in my mind anyways, in an entirely new level. And it says this in Hebrews that Hebrews 12, verses four, I think it says, strive for peace with everyone and holiness. That’s King James says that or strive for the holiness in the ESV without which no one will see the Lord. And that’s the part that really caught my attention without holiness, without striving for the holiness. As the ESV says, no one will see the Lord. Now here’s my question which ties into the title for today’s program. Since in reality holiness is both a positional matter as well as a practical pursuit as in this verse would indicate a striving for holiness is holiness or the striving for holiness and archaic hope therefore, or a divine requirement. And what difference does it make?
Renton Rathbun:
As I thought about that question when I saw it made me think of how the great heresies of today are bound up in the idea of, if I can put it this way, loving your neighbor and what they have done, what a lot of churches have done has said, how do I love my neighbor, my L-G-B-T-Q neighbor, my same-sex attracted neighbor, whatever, whatever it is, how do I love them best? And what they come to is striving for the approval of their neighbor and in striving for the approval of their neighbor, they have denigrated the holiness of God. And what we find is that will I strive the approval of man or the approval of God? And I would even say striving for the approval of God is the best way to love your neighbor. So it is a divine requirement because what we see in one John two, one says, my little children, I’m writing these things to you so that you may not sin.
And if anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father Jesus Christ, the righteous. And what many of us have done with that verse is we’ve read it this way. We’ve said, my little children, I’m writing these things to you so that if you sin, you have an advocate with the father. But it does not say that. It gives you the standard first. And the standard is this, stop sinning. I’m writing these things. You may not sin, that’s the standard, but then it is followed up with this gracious statement by the Lord. But if you do, you have an advocate. But we should always remember that the standard is to stop sinning and this is what we have to remember. The important thing, and I think this is what helps people understand holiness best, is that holiness is not about trying to get to that standard that I might be honored, but rather how important is God’s honor to us? In other words, how important is it that God is loved? And when we hold to his standard, we are demonstrating honor to him and we can try and hold that standard by honoring ourselves and denigrate God’s holiness even by trying to hold a line. But when we are trying to hold God’s standard that he might be honored, we see a very different thing going on that really holiness in the end begins and ends in love.
Sam Rohrer:
And as you said, it begins though with our love for God. If we don’t really love God and strive to please God, which means not sinning, then how can we love our neighbor? That’s connection, right? I mean you’re establishing it first. Unless we strive to please God and fulfill his expectations, can we really love our neighbor?
Renton Rathbun:
And that’s exactly right. There’s no way to love your neighbor unless your love for the Lord comes first. Because what you’ll end up doing is trying, instead of loving your neighbor, you’ll try to please your neighbor. And in trying to please your neighbor, you’ll comfort them in their own sin, which many churches today are doing in an attempt to love their neighbor. They try to comfort them in their sin. And if you really love your neighbor, you will honor the Lord in his holiness, that you might love them in a way that would pursue them, that they might love the Lord as well.
Sam Rohrer:
Alright, let’s move into the next application here that I want to ask you is this is what is God’s expectation? We’re talking about understanding holiness better. We’re trying to do that in this segment. God’s expectation is not the sin. You already laid that out. But what is God’s expectation for holiness in our lives, in our attitudes? Or can I say our heart? Because there is our heart, our mind, our attitudes, and then there are our actions. So let’s go with our attitudes, our hearts first.
Renton Rathbun:
Well, Matthew 1234 is very clear about how this all works. It says, for out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. In other words, from who we really are, deep down inside the thing that pushes all of our thoughts forward and our will forward and our mouth comes the thing that is really there, which is our hearts. So if all holiness was with keeping these arbitrary laws, we would have permission to follow these laws with hearts that are far from the Lord. But we see in Isaiah 29 13, the Lord says this, but then the Lord said, because his people approaches me with their words and honors me with their lips, but their heart is far away from me. And their reverence for me consists in the commandment of men that is taught. So from what we see in Isaiah is this is what many people think holiness is.
It’s having a heart far from the Lord, but following him with their lips and following commands from humans instead of the Lord. But God’s law is not a bunch of arbitrary rules. They’re a reflection of his character. This is why Ephesians five, one tells us to imitate God, be imitators of God as children try to imitate their dad. And if we are united with Christ, our motivation from our heart will want to be like God. So we will want to imitate his character, which will make us love his commandments. Not just hold them as arbitrary rules, but hold them as this is how I’m going to be able to imitate my God.
Sam Rohrer:
Okay, that’s perfect. Now, let’s go in the last couple minutes here. This outward expression, it starts with our hearts Before God, God sees our hearts. He determines whether or not we are holy. Are we striving for his expectations to fulfill that in his approval of people? But that does take us into our actions or our behavior, which as you’ve said has been so deconstructed as if to think that, well, if you have a rule, you’re legalistic and therefore and holiness is thrown out the door. Apply that now to God’s expectation for our actions or behavior.
Renton Rathbun:
Yeah, we could really put it this way. Holiness is God’s love for himself within the trinity. Our acts of holiness stem from our love for him. We are to love him, if I can put it this way, as he loves himself or be devoted to him as he is devoted to himself. And that means every part of us. So if you look at one Corinthians 11, one Paul says this, be imitators of me just as I also am of Christ. In other words, I’m trying to, in my behavior, imitate my behavior because my behavior is imitating Christ. And so you see that. And so what had he been talking about for the last 11 chapters? Well, in chapter one, he’s talking to everyone saying, do not rely on other men but rely on God. This is what Christ did. Chapter two, have a biblical worldview. Stop having a philosophical worldview of a biblical one. Chapter three, be devoted to God, not this world. Chapter four, give up your pride. Chapter five, rejects sensuality in this world, chapter six through nine, love each other. These are behaviors of Christ that we would expect if you are going to be holy, your behavior should match the holy one, Jesus Christ himself.
Sam Rohrer:
And that takes us right up to the break. Boy, I tell you, we could spend so much more time than we have. This could be three hour program, Renton, but that’s not what we have. We’re going to move from this section of understanding God’s perspective, not to sin the heart, the attitude, our actions, our behaviors. They should be consistent. Both of them, ladies and gentlemen, must meet God’s expectation. We’ll come back, we’ll talk in some application. What does it take for a person then to be holy? And how can it be transmitted to those under our authority and our care? Before we go into our final segment here, just a quick announcement. As I mentioned Easter’s only a couple of weeks away, if you visit our website, APN website, American pastors network.net, you will find there, there’s a banner at the top. That page, it’s called The Emotions of Easter.
It’s an eight day passion week. We’re calling a devotional guide, a short section you can go through each day, take you through the walk to the cross, the highs and the lows. It’s for free and you can download and read it there. I would encourage you to do that. Alright, Renton, let’s go back into this. I said we’d ask this question, what does it take then for a person to be holy? We’ve talked about it, it’s commanded of God, old Testament, new Testament. Be holy for I am holy. You’ve said very clearly that a holiness really comes out of the character and the nature of God. Who within the triune God himself is a commitment so tight that from it then flows this concept of holiness for what she can then say, be E holy for I am holy. Okay. Alright, that being the case, what’s it take for a person to be holy?
Renton Rathbun:
We’ve been turning to a lot of passages during this program. There’s a lot more we could turn to, but if you want one of those step-by-step approaches, Colossians chapter three is a great step-by-step approach as to how I am to be holy. It begins in the first verse saying, therefore, if you have been raised with Christ, basically saying you unified with Christ, are you a Christian? If so, then verse two, set your minds on the things that are above, not on the things of the earth. There’s probably some of your listeners that have maybe experienced near death experiences or have known people that have passed. What that does for you is it reminds you that this world is not our home. This is not our permanent residence. And that having our mindset above really is what makes anything down here matter. And so if we’re going to have our mindset above, what are the steps to make that happen?
Because when your mindset above holiness is going to be the first thing on your mind at all times, how do you get there? Well, verse three reminds us that our old self is dead. And then in verse five it says to look at, get the members of your body that are still prone to lust, prone to impurity, prone to passions, evil desires and greed. Think of them as dead parts so that you are in a way of, another way of putting it is kill your sin. Kill it. Or you will be an idolator. And so this idea of setting your mind above requires me to kill my sin. And it’s a daily work. Every time I wake up the next day, my sin is resurrected and I got to kill it again. And in verse eight, it tells you, the old self was a person that was angry all the time.
Someone that was malicious and slanderous. You need to put that person away. That’s your old self. Verse 10, put on the new self. This is the knowledge of God from his image. This is the holiness we’re talking about. Imitate the Lord. Verse 10, verse 12 through 13. Be compassionate, kind, humble, gentle, patient. Bear one another’s burdens. Forgive one another because in verse 14 says, here’s the most important part, love. This is a love for each other because of the love you have for God. So this love for God makes you put your focus on things above so that you might live a holy life so that you can even get to the point where you can love another person. And that is the step-by-step process. You read through Colossians chapter three and you will see that’s how I become Holy.
Sam Rohrer:
Alright, excellent. And just because of time, it can’t go further, but we have to shift here. So therefore, for a person in a position of authority, like a parent church leader, Christian schools as an example, for those who understand who God is, fear God, keep his commandments and understand what we’re talking about, at least a little bit about the holiness of God being holy. What can they do to help inculcate the knowledge of God’s holiness and the requirement for us to live and be holy into the lives of those under their care?
Renton Rathbun:
Yeah, I’d begin with parents. A lot of this starts at home. This is a great challenge even to myself where parents cannot teach their children how to be holy if they’re not pursuing it themselves. And man, is that a knife to the heart when you think about it. Even when I think about my own parenting And how do we do that? Well, we use all the different tools that we have available. We have the church that we have to be involved in and have accountability through, look for tools. I have a podcast called The Rent and Rapid Show that tries to help parents and grandparents see what worldview are coming at them and how to respond biblically to them and pursue those kinds of tools. BGU Press has incredible tools when it comes to educating our children. But what I would say to churches and Christian schools, if you are tempted to do this, stop marketing your institution and have a vision of holiness for your people.
In other words, I think we are so worried we are going to lose people, whether it’s a Christian institution or a Christian Church. We’re worried we’re not going to have people come through our doors. And so begin our marketing schemes. And what I would say what’s better than a good marketing scheme is the vision of holiness for the people that you are serving. The structure of your church, the structure of your school, even the structure of your home should be one that makes decisions about the behavior that you want for the people God has put under your care. What kind of behavior do you think is going to be behavior of holy people? And how do you get there? And I think this is where we fall short. We fall short in two areas when it comes to the church and when it comes to schools, and when it comes to our own homes, the first thing we fall short in is we don’t have a vision for the behavior of our people.
We have a vision for what we want our institution to become. We have a vision for what we want to be in that institution, but we don’t have a real vision for who these people will become. What does God want them to be? How does God want them to behave? How do I create a system that will help them and support them in that work that God has called them to do, to be like him? And I think the second thing that we fail to do is mentor. I think mentoring falls short in many Christian institutions. I think most Christian institutions always say they have good mentoring programs. Does it really happen? And I would say most of the time, no. And so we need to have a mentoring system where people are held accountable in a loving way by those who have been placed over them, that they might be able to see within the lives of the people entering them how life is lived out, and show them how that works. And that I think is how we’re going to be able to make any progress in any institution God has ordained for us to bring about holy people.
Sam Rohrer:
Dr. Renton Rathbun, we’re well out of time. Thank you so very, very much for being with me today. Ladies and gentlemen. He has his website, rentonrathbun.com I think, or you have the ones that people can go to more information about that. But as we finalize this program today, the fear of God. Alright, so after hearing all of this be holy, for I am holy as God’s command. Is it an archaic hope? I think for most it may be. But is it really a divine requirement? It is. Absolutely. So what are we doing? How are we approaching it? Are we thinking about it even well, if the Lord lays it out all in his word and that is most important, pleasing him, pleasing others, let’s please him holiness. Be holy for I am holy. Tomorrow, Dr. Jamie Mitchell will be here Wednesday. Dr. Carl Broggi will join me on Israel Middle East and biblical prophecy Thursday, David New Constitution and American history. And then on Friday, Dr. Isaac Crockett will lead with an Ask Sam week in review. Join us every day this week. The Lord willing.
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