Church and Flourishing:
Practical Path to Reaching Our Potential
April 8, 2025
Host: Hon. Sam Rohrer
Guests: Steve French, Josh Laxton
Note: This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program aired on 4/8/25. To listen to the podcast, click HERE.
Disclaimer: While reasonable efforts have been made to provide an accurate transcription, the following is a representation of a mechanical transcription and as such, may not be a word for word transcript. Please listen to the audio version for any questions concerning the following dialogue.
Jamie Mitchell:
Hello friends and welcome again to a very special edition of Stand In the Gap. Today I am your host, Jamie Mitchell, director of church culture at the American Pastors Network back in October of 2024. We introduce you to the topic of human flourishing, as we stated. Then it comes from the Latin idea of to bloom or to reach the fullness of personal potential socially, relationally, productively, mentally. All that is good in a person is exhibited and functioning for the good of those in our lives, in our community. Human flourishing is the process of developing the capacities and strengths and virtues of an individual in different areas of their lives. It is a conscious process. It responds to personal conviction and purpose and actions and is interrelated with the condition of the social environmental context. All of that sounds very, very intellectual, but it also sounds very biblical.
It may be that the academic and business world has aggressively become advocates for flourishing, but as we discuss in prior programs, Christian leaders are having an impact and an influence in the and speaking into the topic. As a matter of fact, there are now believers at Harvard University and they are significantly shaping this idea of human flourishing. And today we want to discuss this issues with two leaders who are in the middle of this conversation. Steve French was with me last year when we introduced Flourishing to You, our audience. He is the president of LX Partners, a leadership multiplication organization, impacting schools and colleges, businesses, churches, ministries. And joining us today is Steve’s pastor, Dr. Josh Laxton. Josh serves as a senior pastor of Northland Church in Longwood, Florida. Prior to coming to Northland, he served as co-director of the Billy Graham Center and co-director of Lauan North America at Wheaton College, as well as an adjunct professor at Wheaton Graduate School Ministry Missions and Leadership. He’s authored the Bible and 52 Weeks for Men and Crisis Leadership from a Christian perspective. His writing has also been featured in Christianity Today and Outreach Magazine. Steve, Josh, welcome to Stand In the Gap.
Josh Laxton:
Hey, thank you Jamie. Appreciate it. Same here, Jamie. Thank you.
Jamie Mitchell:
Well, Steve, let’s start with you. You helped us to understand flourishing last year. You heard my introduction. What did I miss and what else do we need to know about this very important subject as we begin today?
Steve French:
Well, you missed a lot, so that’s why we need to get into this thing. And so it’s so good to a part of this conversation. I’m not an academic, but I love convening people and the opportunity to convene just here on the radio, to convene in personal conferences around the country to just have conversations around such biblical ideas as human flourishing.
Jamie Mitchell:
Well, Josh, how did you become introduced to this concept of human flourishing and why are you so passionate about it?
Josh Laxton:
Yeah, that’s a great question. Jamie. Years ago when I was in my PhD program, my dissertation was around how the church would engage culture at that point. Obviously this is around 2010, the North American landscape had significantly changed over the last several decades. And so I saw that the church was losing ground. I saw that the culture was becoming more secular, progressing that way. And so my dissertation was focused on an idea that James Davidson Hunter presented in his book to Change the World called a Theology of Fateful Presence. And so I wanted to see how the church would be faithfully present in the world, really seeking the shalom of Babylon, seeking the shalom of the city, the communities in which we lived. And so I had to go out and find a model, a church that even would begin to reflect that. And that’s where I found Redeemer Presbyterian Church and Tim Keller when he was the pastor there and what they were doing just in New York City to really try to capture this in really practice of how to seek the common good, the peace of the city.
Jamie Mitchell:
Well, Steve, let me ask you this. Why is flourishing and this idea of human flourishing, why is it important for us and what does understanding this topic, what will it do for us?
Steve French:
Well, Jamie, even though I spent obviously as you know, 20 years in church ministry, the last 25 years has been spent in marketplace ministry and I interact with so many different leaders in the corporate space who are Christians and they’re very deeply concerned obviously about culture. And to be able to have full engagement of your employees is a big deal. I mean the productivity that can occur when you have full engagement. And so human flourishing is this whole idea of the total wellbeing of a person. And so as we as employers, we as pastors who employ people, we as pastors who shepherd people to be concerned about their total wellbeing is a big deal. And so for me to jump into that conversation is certainly something that it really excited me.
Jamie Mitchell:
Now, Josh, we’re going to talk about the biblical perspective of the idea of flourishing, but from a practical side, the lack of understanding flourishing in the church, why is that a concern? Why is this not being understood by the church? What negative could that come? I want to help us understand why it’s important for us to understand these things and we’re going to understand these things, but avoiding this subject or being ignorant on this subject, it has a downsize to it.
Josh Laxton:
Well, it does, and I believe the reason why the church is behind in this regard is because I think there was a mindset that Christians have had over the last couple of centuries in the West, particularly they thought they just lived in a Christian society and as a result they just saw in some sense the church at the center of everything. And so they thought that, well, if the church of the center of everything and we have a moral society, then it ought to be good. And I think what we have seen over the last 50 years is that we’ve been at least awakened to the idea that we really weren’t as Christian as we thought we were. Like one of the things that I teach is that when you look at the Bible, you have two kingdoms. You either have the kingdom of God or you have the kingdom of man.
There isn’t an in-between kingdom called America. And so you can pursue, in some sense, you can pursue the Christian God in an UNC Christian way, and you can use him as your mascot in order to appease him to kind of get what you want. And I think what has happened over the course of the last 50 or a hundred years is that the church is waking up to the realization that we got to get back to what God has called us to do because we’ve been kind of living in this false reality that we have conjured up. And so that’s where I feel like we’ve got to get back to not only the basics, but actually the root of a Christian understanding of flourishing, a Christian understanding of God’s mission.
Jamie Mitchell:
And that’s what we’re going to learn as we come back for our next segment. When we come back, I want to gain that biblical understanding of what flourishing is. I love what Steve said, it’s engaging the whole person. What does that mean? And how as Christians do we do that? How do we do it in the church? I want you to stay with us here today and stand in the gap today. Well, thank you for staying with us today. We’re discussing the topic of human flourishing and cultivating the whole of life to make maximum potential impact to contribute to the good of the world and our community, Steve French and Josh Laxton as our guest. Today we’re going to be talking about human flourishing, but also we’re going to tell you a little bit about a conference that is coming up. We want you to hold steady. We’ll talk about that in our last segment. But Josh want to get back to this issue of human flourishing and our understanding as believers. This is a widely discussed topic in the secular world, and I use quotes with that, but there’s a lot of biblical understanding to flourishing. How do you explain flourishing from a Christian perspective?
Josh Laxton:
Yeah, I go all the way back, Jamie to Genesis one, and we see in the unfolding of creation of God creating by speaking that every day he looks at what he had made other than day two. Day two, you’ll find that he does not say it is good. And so there’s a reason I think behind that. But on days 1, 3, 4, 5, he says it’s good. And then on day six he says, it’s very good. And so as he looks back on day six and says that everything that he has made is very good, there’s this idea of shalom, there’s this idea of total flourishing. That’s why I actually define shalom as God exercising his infinite wisdom to create a whole world.
Jamie Mitchell:
Now, with that in mind, Josh, how do biblical teaching shape your understanding of what it means for individuals and communities to flourish? And can you share some specific passages or stories that highlight this?
Josh Laxton:
Yeah, so I’ll give you three in particular, and really two come from the same chapter, Genesis one. So when God’s creating a whole world through his infinite wisdom on days one, two, and three, he’s creating the systems and structures that will house the life he creates on day four, day five, day six. You see, you cannot have a total flourishing, you cannot have a whole world without systems and structures to not only sustain the life but actually scale and lead to a whole flourishing life. So that’s where you see God in his infinite wisdom that is able to create a whole world for whole people, whole animals, whole kingdoms. And then within that, what you have in Genesis 1 26 through 1 28 is this idea that God is going to create mankind in his image. So the fact that we are image bears, you go back to the way image was used in that day, that the first five books of the Bible were written.
And image is this idea of rule. It is this idea of reflection. It is this idea of representation. And so human beings are to represent God’s kingdom. They are to exercise God’s rule and reign here on earth as it is in heaven. And so that’s their identity. That’s who they are. Now, how will they fulfill that identity? Well, he tells us in verse eight that they are to be fruitful and multiply, fill the earth, subdue it, and have dominion. So I take those five actions that God had told Adam and Eve what they are to do as human beings. And I really condense them down into three big buckets that they are to relate to God and one another. They are to create. They’re to subdue the raw materials. They are to really develop these raw materials and resources and develop potential out of them.
And then they’re to operate, they’re to steward and manage everything that God had given, everything that they would create under the rule and reign of God. And so with that, when you have human beings that are imaging God through how they relate, how they create and how they operate, they thereby would actually bring a whole world. And when I say establish it and extend it under the rule and reign of God. So that’s how that works. And then what we see is that mankind sin. But I’ll pause right there to see if you have anything that you want to add or that you have in terms of other questions about those two particular understandings of Genesis one.
Jamie Mitchell:
Well, ASM listening to you and I, I’m trying to anticipate what our audience is thinking when you say a whole world approach, when you view our lives in this whole world, we’re not talking about being myopic and focusing on just one thing. We’re talking about making an impact. I love how you use the words to relate and create and to operate that our lives, as we manifest our lives, as we live our lives, Josh, we’re going to be making an impact with our lives. And to do that, we need to be able to engage all of that God has made us. Isn’t that what you’re saying?
Josh Laxton:
Absolutely. So could you imagine what every relationship would look like if it lived under the rule and reign of God? So if our marriage is actually lived under the rule and reign of God and they would relate to their spouse, the way God is related to him, to them, even how the Godhead relates to one another, we believe that we serve one God in three persons, the Trinity. So could you imagine what our relationships, our marriages would look like? Could you imagine what our relationships with our kids and our kids, with our parents, what they would look like, what our relationships with our friends would look like, relationships with our community if they all lived under the and reign of God? And then could you imagine what it would be like if we went to work the way God went to work? So when you think about create, I want you to think about three steps.
You have the cultivation of raw materials and the cultivation of raw materials would actually lead to culture. And culture can be cultural artifacts, it could be ideas, it could be beliefs, it could be worldview, it could be stories. And so could you imagine a group of people that are developing the raw materials and bringing about a culture that lives under the rule and rain of God? And then when a group of people wants to take their culture and begin to build systems and structures, then what you have is a civilization or you have a kingdom, you have a nation state. And so could you imagine what it would’ve been like if Adam and Eve would have completely obeyed the Lord as they would relate, create and develop the raw materials, bring in about a kingdom here on Earth under the rule and reign of God, and then that everything that they would do, how they would steward their time, how they would steward their talents, how they would steward their treasures, their resources, their finances, they would steward it under the rule and rain of God. I mean, you would have shalom. You would have a whole complete world that was devoid of sin, devoid of brokenness that was not fractured or fragmented. It would be beautiful and harmonious and there would be wellbeing in every sector of society.
Jamie Mitchell:
Hey Steve, I want to talk to you about Josh being your pastor and you seeing this in action within your church. But I want to ask you another question. And it’s this, as I hear what Josh is saying, it’s so biblical. But again, Christians are void of this. Christians don’t develop and flourish as they should, but you really have devoted your life and your ministry these last number of decades to helping business leaders and people in the community understand the importance of flourishing and to helping even their employees learn how to flourish in their life because that makes them more productive people and they then can make a maximum impact. So this idea of flourishing isn’t just something for us to learn, but it’s also for us to help and assist others to learn it and for them to become all that they could be. Isn’t that the other side of this whole topic of human flourishing?
Steve French:
Yeah, sure. I mean, when you really think about the intention of God being, essentially the whole focus is on the workplace in the garden. Hey, get the work Adam, get the work Eve. And so when a pastor is charging his troops to go get them this week, you better have a pretty biblical understanding of how important it is to flourish in the marketplace. So yeah, to be able to, productivity obviously is a big thing in Genesis one. And last I checked with business guys that I interact with day, whether or not somebody at Disney just with the Chick-fil-A people this past week to just someone who has a mom and pop shop, productivity actually matters greatly. And so when you have a culture that really cares about the flourishing, the total wellbeing of an employee, it just brings back so much productivity to the bottom line for organization. So yes, I think it really does matter a great deal in the workplace particularly
Jamie Mitchell:
Well, either one of you can answer this question. What I hear you saying is that if we’re not developing in our relationships, let’s say with our spouse or with our children, and there’s failure there or there’s a lack there, if we’re not taking care of our own human, our bodies, and physically, if we’re not challenging ourselves mentally, if we’re not doing all of the elements, all of those pieces that God has put in our life, if one or two or three of those things are lagging, it’s going to have a rippling effect on how you work, how you make an impact in the community. And so when you talk about becoming a whole being, it’s so that we can make a greater impact in the world that God has placed us into.
Josh Laxton:
So Jamie, yeah, what I would say, because this goes back to the third point that I was going to make, is so we see the picture of Shalom at the very beginning, but it didn’t last very long. You have Adam and Eve, they chose to rebel. They chose to commit treason against the cosmic king of heaven, and as a result, they were kicked out of the Garden of Eden, but God did not want to leave them in their broken sinful state. So he’s going to pursue redemption. Now. It’s in Jesus that we actually become fully alive and that the image of God is now being repaired and renewed in us. But we,
Jamie Mitchell:
Josh, hold that thought. Just hold that thought. We’re going to come back. I want to talk more about this issue of brokenness when we come back. How does it make a difference in our community? The topic is flourishing. Stay with us. Well, welcome back. I’m so glad that you can be part of this fascinating and stretching conversation about human flourishing. Our guests are Dr. Josh Blackston from Northland Church and a returning guest, Steve French, president of LX Partners, and a host of a flourishing summit that will be taking place in Boston this next month. You’re going to be able to hear about that in just a few moments, but I want to get back, Josh, you were talking about the issue of how God had established the world, and then brokenness comes, finish up what you were saying.
Josh Laxton:
Yeah, so sin unraveled the shalom, the flourishing of God’s good creation. And so that’s what you see now from Genesis three on is the unraveling of order, the unraveling of flourishing of what Hebrews would call shalom. And so now we’re waiting for a redeemer to now reinstitute, redeem, restore, shalom. And so that’s where Jesus really comes into the picture, is that he is the cosmic king who took on flesh to come and redeem creation and to redeem mankind. And so that’s where we see what Paul writes in Ephesians two, that we as human beings we’re dead in our trespasses and sins, but we were made alive in Christ Jesus. And so now we have the potential once again to work towards Shalom and to work towards this common good and this wholeness. Now we have the ability to work towards it, but we will not fully experience it until Jesus comes back.
But he gives us, he at least gives us a framework. And we actually see this framework in the Old Testament when Israel was hauled off into exile, and we see Jeremiah 29, but you shall seek the welfare or the shalom of the city in which I sent you. And so God’s people are to seek the peace, the shalom, the wellness, the good of the cities in which they are sent, and they will do that in three particular ways. They will do it in partnering with the city or the community that God has planted them, preserving life in the city community where God had planted them, and then also proclaiming the ultimate prince of peace in the city and community in which God had planted them.
Jamie Mitchell:
Amen. That Jeremiah 29 has been just a focal point of ministries that I have been a part of, and it’s interesting that pastors and churches, Josh, don’t fully understand our responsibility to seek the welfare of the city which our church is in. And that part of that is both focusing on our own wellbeing and our own wholeness, but also helping the community to flourish as well. Josh, as a pastor, how do you help your congregation understand this idea of human flourishing, and not just for themselves, but as you’ve just said, to seek the welfare of the city?
Steve French:
Well, let me jump in on this because he’s my pastor. I can tell you firsthand, one of the key things I think for pastors to do is to, and most leaders, I’m in leadership development, so I’m very keen on bringing focus. It is so important that as you lead people that you bring focus, and Josh is intentional, focus on creation is huge. And so there are so many places where he could go, so many places, obviously in the Bible where you can just kind of camp in, but if you don’t get the creation part of the Christian worldview, then it really kind of skews a lot of other things, if not the entire biblical picture. So let’s focus first of all on getting that story right. So Josh, thank you so much for all your focus on that.
Josh Laxton:
Yeah, you’re welcome, Steve. Well, I love it because if you don’t understand what he’s doing at the very beginning, it really does kind of make it hard to really understand what he’s doing with Israel and then when they fail, okay, what Jesus is doing when he says repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand or the kingdom of God is at hand. And so what we do, Jamie, what we do here at Northland to really intentionally put this in not only the people’s minds and hearts, but actually their lives. We not only preach on it, but we actually, we build it from a structural standpoint. So we actually have three spheres that we are building as a church. We have our church sphere that we are building, which is helping people understand who God has made them and how Jesus through his death and resurrection is redeeming them holistically.
So that’s kind of your church sphere. And then we have what we call our compassion sphere, which is a separate 5 0 1 C3 called Mercy Road that is seeking to bring healing and shalom to the needs of our region. And then we’ve also created a commerce sphere of how we not only leverage our property, but we’ve created an education initiative. We have some other plans right now to create other businesses. And so now what we’re doing as a church is to actually show the inbreaking kingdom of God holistically, spiritually, socially, and culturally are going back to what I said from Jeremiah. We have the proclaiming piece, which is the church. We have the preservative piece, which is Mercy Road, and then we have the partnering piece where we’re creating businesses for the community and invest in the common good and the structures that way.
Jamie Mitchell:
And that must give you some amazing opportunities then to interact with people, people both who are believers, maybe outside of your church, but a lot of unbelievers, who then you get into the conversation of why are you doing this and what is your ultimate intention? And there we bring in the wholeness that comes from knowing Jesus Christ. It must be a fascinating thing, Josh, to see the interaction and the interplay with those who don’t know Christ, but also need to themselves experiencing human flourishing.
Josh Laxton:
Absolutely. Well, I just celebrated three years, so we have probably been at it for about a year, year and a half in creating these other structures like Mercy Road and then our commerce. But I can tell you just about 18 months in, we’re now seeing story after story of someone who did not go to church, did not have a faith story when it came to Jesus, that they’re coming to faith in Jesus through these other realms that we have created that is demonstrating the inbreaking kingdom of God. I cannot tell you how much joy that gives us to see the Lord at work in these other structures that typically aren’t part of a normal church.
Jamie Mitchell:
Steve, the last two decades, you’ve been working with business leaders and ministries and consulting churches. You were a pastor for a long time before that. This topic of human flourishing, this idea, how difficult is it for a congregation to grasp it, and what kind of challenges might a pastor face when encouraging his flock to move into some of these spheres?
Steve French:
Yeah, I think that we tend to pastors, we tend to teach obviously very theological, but theoretical and never really get into the practical. And frankly, I think some of it has to do with the fact that we don’t really know what’s going on in this guy’s business. We don’t really know what’s happening with that secretary as she works behind her chair. We don’t really know how to bring the practical into play. This is a big deal. I just remember some of the most valuable times for me as a pastor was just simply taking the time to actually go to where they are. I mean, it’s one thing to go into a home, so that’s wonderful, but to actually go into the workplace and actually see, smell, what’s kind of going on there. Even if I took an hour a week to do that, it was just such a big, big deal. So the whole idea of really, so when the pastor then begins to share about this whole wellbeing, he’s now bringing in examples of how things are, and his teaching just has a different flavor to it when he can actually bring the practical and application part of it.
Jamie Mitchell:
I must be different in many regards because I’ve always believed that as pastors, we’re not just to communicate information, but we are to help bring about transformation. And again, that’s by preaching God’s word and proclaiming it and directing people to the principles of scripture and then the Holy Spirit energizing and moving in people’s lives. But as preachers, as pastors, we have a responsibility to persuade people and give people the challenges that they see in their life. Josh, it’s so important for a pastor, many who are listening today to really understand what’s happening in their people’s lives so that they will know how to address some of the flourishing issues in their life. Isn’t that right?
Josh Laxton:
Yeah, that is exactly right. That’s part of where we are called also to be shepherds of being in and among the sheep, understanding their hurts, their heartaches, their hangups. There are confusions that they have their misunderstandings. And so really trying to bring to light, this is what Paul gets at in Corinthians, where with the light of the gospel, it is shining and the light of the gospel is ushering in new creation. And so our role as pastors is to help them understand this new creation that has dawned in Jesus. So one of the things that I love to tell people is that it took six days for God to create the heavens and the earth, and he says that it is very good. Then Adam and Eve, they unraveled it through their sin. But when Jesus, when he died on a Friday, he rested on a Saturday, but he rose victoriously on the first day of the week signifying that he has ushered in new creation. And so right now we are in the development phases of new creation. And so we as pastors, we have to help people understand how through this power of the Spirit, Jesus is bringing in new creation of what it means to relate under the rule and reign of God, what it means to bring our work under the rule and reign of God.
Jamie Mitchell:
And we’re going to hear about a conference to help pastors. Well, as we head to the finish line, I want to encourage you yes, to go to our website, stand in the gap media or radio.org, you can find the program that Steve and I did back in October of 2024 on flourishing. You could also send today’s link of today’s program to a pastor or Christian leader that you think would benefit by what we’re learning today on the topic of human flourishing. Steve, as we’ve been talking, and I know we’ve talked in the past, a lot of universities, notable universities, one being Harvard, has really keyed in on this issue of human flourishing. And interesting enough, believers are finding their ways into these universities and having an amazing opportunity to help shape some of the conversation. As we’ve been talking today, it’s just clear to me that there are many people talking about human flourishing, but unless we bring the God of the universe, the creator into this conversation, we’re never going to experience full wholeness. Can you share why places like Harvard are being open to Christian influence and some of the wonderful things that are happening in those environments?
Steve French:
Yeah, I think Christians, no matter if they’re going to work nine to five or whether or not they are studying or teaching at a place called Harvard, you’re having to be wise as serpents, gentle as doves. And certainly if you’re working at Harvard, there is a real necessity to be wise. And so as a result, I fortunately have a son-in-law who’s so brilliant that he married my daughter, but he, Harvard recognized that and has brought ’em on into heading up the research team at Harvard on the human flourishing side of things. And what they have done is developed a team that all have a Christian world view to it, and they have agreement. I can get into the nuts and bolts of it, but the basic things that they were wise, they were really careful to have clear understanding with the Harvard brass that when we talk about human flourishing and when we study and we research it as a organization now, that actually when we talk about the total wellbeing, that includes the spiritual. So as a result, all of their research has a very spiritual component to it. And Harvard signed off on it, said, yeah, of course, if you’re talking total wellbeing. So now we have a total research team that has a Christian worldview that is very mindful of how important faith is in human flourishing. So I just see this as an example of if we want to have influence just even at our work, let’s try to think through be wise in the ways in which we go about using our influence for kingdom. Good.
Jamie Mitchell:
Amen. Amen. Well, that’s exciting and we definitely need to continue to pray for them and Harvard as well as other universities and businesses that are talking about this. But Steve, you’re hosting special conference in Boston on the Church and Human Flourishing Summit. How did this come about? Tell our audience about the conference. Is it too late for pastors and faith leaders to be a part? And where can they find out about it and give us the important details of this conference?
Steve French:
Well, first of all, how it came about, and you can ask me some other questions. So my focus has been on Christian marketplace leaders. And so Harvard’s team invited me to bring some select Christian business leaders onto the campus of Harvard, and they would present the research on what it means to flourish at work. And so it’s been great. They bring the world’s best research on human flourishing, and then I bring in those that are actually practically living that out, bring in the Chick-fil-A’s the hobby lobbies, the various different small businesses that are seeking to live this out. And so in that room, there were several other Christian organizations like Glue out of Boulder, Colorado and Barna Group that’s doing such great research as well. And when they experienced what we did last year at Harvard University, they said, Hey, can we do something for pastors?
Can we do something for the church this next year in 2025 that we are now in? We would love to just share the research on the state of the church where we are right now. And so I’m a convener. I love to convene. I just am very happy to bring these amazing kingdom stallions into a corral, and it takes a lot of work to bring these stallions into a corral. But I got them in the corral in Boston on April the 30th. Well, we have a lot of horsepower to speak to pastors regarding the state of the church and how practically we can work out the human flourishing in their churches and communities.
Jamie Mitchell:
Where can they go, Steve, to find out about the conferences or website they can go to? How can they contact you?
Steve French:
I think the best thing to do is just reach out to me through email, steve@lxpartners.org, steve@lxpartners.org, and I’ll send them all the information. They can ask me some additional questions that they might have as well, but I’ll be happy to send them the link for that. At
Jamie Mitchell:
Josh, I’m assuming seeing that you’re Steve’s pastor and you are right on a point with this topic that you’re going to be at this conference, what do you believe God will do with a summit like this, and what are some possible long-term effects that understanding human flourishing may have on the Christian community?
Josh Laxton:
Well, one of the things that I’m grateful for, Steve, and I’ve gotten to know Steve over the last three years, and we really do have a kindred heart and spirit about this. And so just getting, I love how he called it stallions in the corral is really a huge feat where we can rub elbows, we can share our heart because the collaboration and the ideation coming out of that will actually have ripple effects for I think years and decades to come.
Steve French:
Josh, it’s really interesting. What we’re going to experience together is really, Richard Blackaby is going to be speaking at this, and he and I, along with Henry, who’s now passed away, have had just a wonderful relationship over these last 20 some odd years. And Richard and I have always had this heart, but what if a pastor could bring their marketplace leader with them to experience the research that’s going on that not only applies to the church, but certainly applies to the marketplace? And it’s one thing to kind of get excited, but it’s a whole other thing. Now we’re listening to the same thing together, and now we’re having Kingdom Church conversations right then and there. And so Jamie, I think one of the things that would be just amazing is that if there are pastors that really are interested in seeing this idea of human flourishing really occur, all the more in their church is to bring not just a staff member with them, but bring just another Kingdom stallion that’s sitting in their pews, bring them with them, and to experience that together on April the 30th.
Jamie Mitchell:
Well, I know from our own research, we at the American Pastors Network, we produce a report each year called the State of the Church, and we look at what’s happening in that past year in the church and really glean on groups like Barna and others. But this issue of people caring for their lives, their soul, and becoming all that God designs and desires them to be in all of the areas of their life is a big issue. And it’s why the church doesn’t have the impact that it has today. Gentlemen, thank you for being with us. You’ve been a blessing. I believe God is going to use this and bringing this topic of flourishing to the forefront. Friends, please check out the website. Please reach out to Steve about the summit. Try to get there if humanly possible until tomorrow. Live and lead with courage. The church and society desperately need courageous believers. God bless you. Have a great day.
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