Fathers and Sons: Passing on Christ, Character, and Courage
June 10, 2025
Host: Hon. Sam Rohrer
Guest: J.R. McGee
Note: This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program aired on 6/10/25. To listen to the podcast, click HERE.
Disclaimer: While reasonable efforts have been made to provide an accurate transcription, the following is a representation of a mechanical transcription and as such, may not be a word for word transcript. Please listen to the audio version for any questions concerning the following dialogue.
Jamie Mitchell:
Well, welcome again to Stand the Gap Today. I’m Jamie Mitchell, the director of church culture here at the American Pastors Network, and I believe today’s program is probably going to be one of the most unusual ones that I’ve ever planned. As a pastor, I love preparing for special Sunday sermons. Christmas obviously was my favorite, and Easter was a high point. I really enjoyed Memorial Day and 4th of July, new Year’s Thanksgiving. But one that I’ve struggled with was Father’s Day. Mother’s Day was kind of easy talking about the virtues of a godly woman and how they serve us and give to the family. But for dads, I found it hard. The last few years I realized I failed to challenge and encourage and cheer on men like I should have. And today we see a diminished interest of men in regards to the things of God and a real crisis emerging within young adult men.
I think we need to double down our efforts to build up fathers and sons. So today I want to do that, especially as we approach Father’s Day. I want to have a program today I’m calling fathers and sons, passing on Christ character and courage, and with me is a father and son team. And later I’m taking a real risk of having my own son, Alex, join in the conversation. But first, let me introduce Mark Crocco and his son Markie. Now Mark and I have been friends for 40 years. A matter of fact, when we each had our boys, we swapped their baby pictures and carried them around in our wallets as a prayer reminder. So there’s a history on display here. Mark’s been a pastor, conference speaker, business leader, and a coach to preachers. Yet his favorite title is Dad and now Papa. He’s married to Janie. He also has a beautiful daughter, Carolanne, his son Markie is married with a little girl and he is the head baseball coach at Erskine College, a Christian college in South Carolina. His love for baseball was ignited by his dad, who in his day was a super player. And together they share a special bond that has been forged together by love, pain, and the Lord Gentlemen, welcome to Stand in the Gap.
Mark Crocco:
Jamie, I’m so delighted to participate in this special program. Thanks so much for having Mark and I,
Markie Crocco:
Jamie, thanks for having us today. And what a special opportunity to have my dad on here today with me. And excuse me if I call you Uncle Jamie once in a while because you’ve been in my life for my whole life and I want to thank you for having us today.
Jamie Mitchell:
Well, that’s why I asked you guys to be part of this. Mark, let’s start right from the start. I need to acknowledge that neither you nor I have been perfect Dads, we’ve had our shares of struggles and failures. Yet I know because I’ve known you for so long, we both worked hard at the job of fathering for the Dads listening today. What were the two or three things that from the beginning as a parent you really tried to focus on with your son?
Mark Crocco:
Well, the first thing was the theme of Christ’s lightness in light of the fact that Christ’s lightness is the goal of the Christian life, I believe that Christ-like transformation is the goal of Christian parenting. So my prayer as I was raising Mark was I wanted to continually point Mark in the direction of Christ, not so much as Father but the direction of Christ. And I knew that if Mark would live out Philippians two, five, where Paul commands us to live with the attitude, the mindset, the mentality of Christ, I knew that he would ultimately become the kind of man that he has become a man that is other centered and not self-centered. The great challenge for me as a dad is that we all know that if we don’t lead by example, our children are not going to be able to follow us. So the fact that I needed to become more like Christ and that continues in my life, even to the sour, but I wanted that to be my pursuit in life and my son’s pursuit in life.
The second thing that I would highlight, Jamie, is the area of communication. No relationship ever rises above the level of communication that exists in a relationship that is especially true of fathers and sons. And even though I may have been in a position of authority over my son as a dad, I wanted my son to always feel like he had the safety and the freedom to communicate whatever he was feeling, whatever he was working through in life. So I knew that we were either succeeding or failing as a father and as a son, one conversation at a time. And I wanted our conversations always to be life giving, never life taking.
Jamie Mitchell:
That’s excellent.
Markie Crocco:
Obviously one truth that my dad has lived by is be honest, keep current and back to communication and giving truth. He always lived that in my life. He was always honest and current with me, with his walk with the Lord, his confidence in his God and his life call to serve not only the greater good of the gospel, but everybody that we encountered. And as I look back on my life journey, I was blessed to have someone that emulated Christ in a way that was not condemning, that was not forcing anything on anybody. It was simply to love others and to love his God first. And that was one thing that really sprouted later on in my life, was his ability to keep the Lord in the background of every conversation that we had, every interaction that we have to love others and ultimately serve him
Jamie Mitchell:
Fellows. I broke up there for a second, but the fact of the matter is as fathers and sons, we have to connect with our kids. It just doesn’t happen. There’s an intentionality that has to happen. There’s a persistence that happens. There’s ebbs and flows in relationships. There’s times where I realize this as a father, my son didn’t want to be around me or he wanted to kind of sprout his wings and be a little bit more independent. And when you see that Mark, when you saw that in Markie, and we got about 30 seconds for this segment, but you saw that in Mark intentionality is really a key part of being a dad, isn’t it?
Mark Crocco:
Yes, absolutely.
Jamie Mitchell:
And that’s what we are attempting to do today to be intentional. Fathers and sons have a unique relationship. There are special opportunities to share and make an impact. We want to cultivate that, we want to develop that. We want to demonstrate that to each other. This is an important program today talking about a father and son relationships. Our churches need men of courage and stability and character. And I believe the key relationship is a dad and his son. So when we come back, we’re going to go a little deeper into this conversation of what it takes for a father and son relationship. We’re talking about dads and son today here on Stand In the Gap Today. Well welcome back. We’re talking about the relationship and impact of Father and Sons. My guests are Mark and Markie Crocco. Markie Baseball is your career Dad played a major influence in your love for the game. How has having a common love for something like baseball cultivate your relationship with each other?
Markie Crocco:
Well, it’s been in the backdrop our whole life and I tell young men now that I’m in a leadership role as a collegiate coach and their families to give people opportunities to fall more in love with the game of baseball. And that is exactly what my dad did. He gave me opportunities to fall more in love with the game. And ironically, it ended up being the same thing in my walk with Christ. He gave me opportunities to be invited into what God was already doing in my life, in the lives of others and also in any ministry realm that we had been a part of. So there’s this old verbiage that baseball purists have called it life in nine innings. And obviously baseball is one of those life teachers. The amount of failure that’s involved, the beauty of the sun will shine tomorrow. And just obviously the many ins and outs that come with playing the game and also going to ballparks and observing the game really is something that does highlight the father son relationship.
Jamie Mitchell:
Well, the only mistake your father made was helping you become a Phillies fan. We’ll forgive him for that. But one of the things we long to do as dad is help our sons become strong and resilient and faith things with faith and courage. Markie, part of how that has occurred is when sons watch their dads face trials and difficulties more is caught than taught this past year. Your dad faced the trial of cancer. How has that impacted you and what have you learned through it as a son?
Markie Crocco:
Well, it’s impacted really my whole perspective on life. And we’ve always talked about that every day is a gift. It’s been something that my dad has thrown into my life over all my years. And finally, life life’s knocking on that door and we realized that time is of the essence, but most importantly, how it’s affected me as a father and as a coach is it’s allowed me to be more present every day. When you get surprised with the diagnosis as such, we can look at potential hard things in life as things that may hurt us, but ultimately what we have found is there were blessings in this trial. There was moments in that hospital that him and I shared that I will treasure forever. And ultimately we equated obviously him being a baseball player every time we took a walk down that hallway after that significant surgery that he received.
And I just kept reminding him, I said, you’re a ball player. Number nine, you’re a ball player. And he lived that out. And also lastly, even in that trial, the ministry did not end. The ministry continued. He continued to give his life away to others, to serve the nurses, to tell them about Jesus and also to use that platform with watching worlds friends and family. To see him stand in that gap and know that this was all about his God and to give him glory. And every seed that got sown that may not have sprouted quite yet that he had sowed in me over those years has rooted differently. And I’m a better man, a better coach, a better father, a better husband today because of it.
Jamie Mitchell:
Mark, I know it must be an encouragement to hear your son talk like that, but that just doesn’t happen again. How have you tried to prepare your son to face life’s difficulties and develop courage and character and resiliency? Because when something like cancer comes, you better be prepared as a father son and as a family to face something like that.
Mark Crocco:
Yeah. Every Christian parent needs to be concerned about helping their children have a Christian worldview. And I know that’s what the American Pastors Network is all about. And as parents, we need to understand that our vision of who God is prepares us for the hard times more than anything else. One of the things that I sought to pass on to my son through the years is that our God is a sovereign God. He is the Lord who reigns and he is always working out his purposeful plan and will for our lives. None of us are ever victims no matter what our circumstances are because God has promised that his grace would be sufficient at all times in every situation we ever face. So the bottom line is that life is really about the glory of God. And it’s not so much us living our lives where God focuses on us and our glory and our purposes, but it’s just the opposite. We need to live lives where life is about our God and his purposes and ultimately his glory. And I want my son to know, even as we’re doing this interview, how proud I am that he is a man who has embraced his God and who walks in dependency upon his God.
Jamie Mitchell:
Mark as a pastor and as somebody who works with men, and even in the business world, you interact with dads and husbands, it’s pretty unique the kind of relationship both you have with Markie and I’ve been blessed to have with Alex. How do you inspire other dads, especially dads who maybe don’t know the Lord and Christ is not the center of their lives? Can we still encourage those men to build those kind of relationships with their sons?
Mark Crocco:
Absolutely. Jamie, God has given every one of us a unique sphere of influence. And in those unique spheres of influence, there are going to be people that know Jesus Christ as their personal savior and those who do not. But when the rubber really meets the road and we try to get people to evaluate what matters most in life, and going through a year where I was battling cancer like I have in the last year or so, one of the things that we learned is that life is about relationships, it’s about family, it’s about love. And so I think we are able to influence people through our example as they see us loving each other. And isn’t it amazing that Christ said the way the world would know that we are as disciples is by the way that we are loving one another and ultimately the way that we are loving others in our spheres of influence?
Jamie Mitchell:
Markie, you coach a lot of young men, and my guess is many of them don’t have good relationships with their dads. How does that affect your coaching and is it hard to relate to student athletes like that?
Markie Crocco:
Yeah, one of my coaching philosophies really gets central on the father figure is that everybody, every person, every player is different and everyone’s upbringing is different. And ultimately, just like you guys have been called to the pulpit to minister to a group of people where they are all from different walks of life and have had different experiences. So my job is to do one thing and one thing only, and that is to wash feet, to show them Christ, to stand in the gap. And I always say with every young man that comes through that gate, or every young man that comes to watch us play, God has called me to steward that opportunity in a way that ultimately gives him honor and glory. And yes, there are some young men that may be a little more guarded because they haven’t had coaches that have told them that they love them.
They haven’t had dads that have told them that they love them. And I try to make it a point to every one of them to know that they are enough, that they’re loved, and ultimately that they are each uniquely created by a father in heaven who relentlessly pursues them every day of their lives. And if he invites me into what he’s doing in their lives, and I believe he does that with coaches, I gladly answer the call and I do it in a way that emulates the way that my dad showed me how to lead and minister.
Jamie Mitchell:
Mark, one final question. We need to challenge men to break the cycle of bad fathers. We have a lot of bad fathers. We’ve got about 30 seconds left. Speak to that guy out there whose dad, a grandfather, great-grandfather, he is got a whole heritage of bad fathers. Can he be the new father for his family?
Mark Crocco:
Well, absolutely Jamie. And this is the glory and the power of the gospel. The gospel of Jesus Christ is still transforming people’s lives that will never change. And in light of that, all people have the potential to change and then ultimately to become more like our savior that we’ve been talking about and really exalting throughout this entire discussion today. So there’s always hope. And there may be a dad that thinks, I’ve blown it. I could never repair things. That is not true. And that is why there is such a redemptive and restorative nature to the Christian life.
Jamie Mitchell:
Amen. Amen. Mark, thank you for sharing your story, insights and your son Markie with us. Now, I want you to hang on and Mark, he’s going to join me for the last segment, but when we return, I’m going to be joined by my own son, Alex. I do this with fear and intrepidation, but I think it will be an encouragement to you as we are talking about fathers and sons here. Stand at the gap today. Well, when I was putting together this program for fathers and sons, I initially thought about having my son Alex join me on standing the Gap. And I thought it would be so much fun, but because I don’t know exactly what he’s going to say, I’m now completely terrified. Well, here we go. Alex is Chris my wife and my favorite child? That’s because he’s our only child and he’s married to Shannon and they have given to us little Charlotte and Beau. He owns an insurance business in Indiana and he’s smarter than his old man. And he often reminds me of that fact. Son, welcome to Stand In the Gap.
Alex Mitchell:
Hey, good morning. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.
Jamie Mitchell:
Well, I am excited, Alex. As your father, I had plans and hopes and expectations of what I was doing would cause you to grow into a godly productive adult. And that has come true. But to be honest, fatherhood, especially at the beginning, it was a lot of guesswork. As you think back now as an adult, what were some things that I did right and that you believe did benefit your life now as an adult today?
Alex Mitchell:
Good question. And you know you’re right. It is a lot of guesswork with being a parent. Now myself, from a child’s perspective, you always think that your parents have everything figured out, but as a parent now, I realize that you are trying to figure it out on a daily basis. As you said, the most important thing that you showed me was what it looked like to have a relationship with Christ. And as I said, as a father, now I understand the calling on my life is to shepherd not only my family, but especially shepherd my kids’ to know who Jesus is. And you modeled that for me and actually being the one that led me to the Lord. So that was one of the big things that you did, and you laid out a great example for that. Another thing that you did that I find value in is that you modeled what it meant to use our time, our talents, and our treasures to serve the Lord from being involved in a local church and to serving in the community, to serving overseas.
I always remember that you and mom put me in situations that I would have to serve somebody else. And not only was that a great life lesson, but it allowed me to be exposed to different people and cultures and to learn how to share my faith. And also the most important thing is that it was a reminder to me of how blessed that we are and how blessed that I was growing up. And so those were a couple of things. In addition to that, you modeled what it meant to be a leader in the workplace. And so we can kind of talk about any one of those things that you’d like.
Jamie Mitchell:
Well, when it came to being involved with the church and others, one of the reasons we did that, and I did that and I felt very strongly about that, is I wanted you to not only be around myself, but I wanted you to be around other godly men and adults and leaders and business leaders. And as I look back at your life, me opening that door for you to meet other people and watching their godly influence on you was just a tremendous blessing as a dad watching that. And I appreciate hearing those things because you wonder as a dad if you are making a difference. But Alex, I am also fully aware I failed along the way and amidst my failures as a dad, what did that teach you and how did God use even my shortcomings for your good?
Alex Mitchell:
Well, the first thing I would say that I was reminded that we all need Jesus, right? And all of us have shortcomings. And so it’s not just you, but it’s all of us. And I think that was an important piece to learn. Again, as I had said, as a child, you feel like your parents have everything figured out when the reality is is that they’re figuring it out on a daily basis. And so one of the big things that God has used through our story is that I learned that my plan or our plans that we have for ourself and God’s plans are different. His plans are far greater than what we can imagine as we know. And he used your shortcomings to be able to not only refine you, but also to refine us and not to define us. He uses his refinement of shortcomings.
And I feel like you modeled to me what it means to walk through the process of being somebody that has to seek repentance from people like we all do, but more importantly of what it means to walk a relationship with the Lord, to be able to learn how to ask him and ask others for forgiveness and how to humble yourself. And again, without any of the situation that happened in our lives, we wouldn’t be in the situation that we’re in today. And so looking back, you’re able to see God’s hand from physically moving us or from allowing us to walk through trials that he’s created a plan far beyond what we could even have imagined.
Jamie Mitchell:
Amen. I love what you said there, Alex, that our plans are not God’s plans and God’s figured that out. As a parent, one of the things that I had to learn was what Proverbs says, and it says that we’re to train up our child in the way that he should go, not the way that I wanted you to go. Kind of a funny story in our relationship is my dad was a professional baseball player, I loved baseball. I still play softball today. I wanted you to play baseball, but for one reason or another that wasn’t your thing. And you picked up a golf club one day and you started playing golf and you really exceeded in that. How important do you think it is as a dad, and now we’re speaking to the dads who are listening, that you can have expectations and desires and wishes on your kids, but don’t over assert yourself, don’t make them be what you want. How important was that allowing you a chance to be who you were in your development?
Alex Mitchell:
I think it’s extremely important. One of the things that you modeled was what it means to have fun. And fun can look very different to a lot of people as you discussed between golf and baseball. But for me, whatever the sport, whatever the activity was, we still were able to have the meaningful conversations. And what I mean by that is what it means to have discipline, what it means to be dedicated to something in the golf situation, what it means to have golf course management, and the talks about what we need to work on. And I know looking back that golf wasn’t your favorite sport, but to your point, being able to relate to your kids and finding value and what they find value in is how you’re able to really teach them. If you were to say, no, I don’t want to participate in activity, I don’t like it, then you’re not going to be able to connect with your kids. And that’s a big learning experience for me. Our daughter is involved in ballet something that I am not engaged in any way, shape or form, but I am, I’m there and I’m coaching her in that regard.
Jamie Mitchell:
Yeah, I would like to see you in a tutu at some point getting out there and maybe throwing a little Charlotte around. But to beg your point, when you started to get interested in golf, going to your lessons and being a al at some of your tournaments, that became a real joy for me and really your mother, we just said, Hey, this is what he likes. We’re going to go to what he likes to do because we want to be around him and we want to be a part of that, and we want to be able to relate to him. And that is really a key to parenting. Alex, were there any other practical things that you picked up as a dad from our relationship at this point?
Alex Mitchell:
I think another thing that really stands out to me is, and we can use golf as the example of how much of a connector that you were, we always say it’s not about what you know, but it’s about who. And I really believe that that rings true, especially in parenting, using the example of ballet in golf, right? The fact that I’m not the expert in ballet, but I know somebody who is. And so I can go to that person and ask for teaching and guidance and humble myself to make my child better, I think is an important thing. And the same thing with golf. And so having those connections and being involved in the community really is what got me even into insurance to begin with, what allowed me to excel at golf and being able to be put into different situations that I could excel at the sport. And the same thing with business now, the trajectory of my life, all because about who. So putting yourself out there and humbling yourself and always trying to meet new people, I think really was another thing that really impacted me and in my life.
Jamie Mitchell:
Now, friends, if you’re listening today both from Mark and Markie and from my son Alex, I think you’re picking up a theme and that is that the role of a dad, a of a father, is to identify the person that God has created your son to be, and then to open the door of opportunity and to guide them and direct them. And obviously you have desires and hopes and dreams and wishes, but don’t let your dreams and wishes get in the way of God’s plan for your son or daughter. And so as a dad, opening up those opportunities, introducing your kids to certain people that can help them and cultivate them and maybe do some things that you can’t do. Well, we’re going to finish up our program, and I want Mark and Alex to talk about being dads themselves and how what we as their fathers did to help prepare them today, it’s all about fathers and sons here on Stand in the Gap.
Well, we’ve been looking at fathers and sons today, and as we finish up, Markie Crocco has joined Alex and me. Fellas, here’s what I want to ask you as we finish this program. You are both now dads, you’ve started to understand the demands and challenges and hopefully appreciate what your dads have faced. What has been the greatest help that each of your dad’s influences are having on your parenting today as you figure out how to be a great dad? And I think it’s kind of interesting is both of you have girls and both of your girls are Charlie’s. So Markie weigh in on this for me.
Markie Crocco:
Yeah, it’s a great question. I find out more and more every year of my life as I lead young men, as a college baseball coach, and now as a father to Charleston Lynn, that there are monumental markers, as I call them throughout our lives, where dads have the opportunity to truly emulate Christ. And I’m intentional about our church attendance, some intentional about prayer time in and around her, whether it’s meals, opportunities to give back, to serve others, to live a life of service for him. And as I’ve watched, there’s this old saying as coaches, and you could tell me what you know, but they’re not going to listen to what you know until they see you live it out. And ultimately, my goal for my daughter, my goal for these young men that I lead as a baseball coach is to truly be intentional about living out these opportunities that God gives us.
So I do believe there’s monumental markers along the way that allow those absolutes, those truths to be rooted in her life. And my dad was able to live that out ultimately here is what I’ll say as well. My dad always did a wonderful job of not condemning me when I fell short, he did not brow beat and make me feel as if I was a lost cause. And ultimately, my relationship with my heavenly Father has stemmed off of that. And I know there are a lot of young men that I lead that do have a hard time with this Heavenly Father concept, full surrender to the heavenly Father who loves them, who relentlessly pursues them daily. And I credit a lot of my fellowship and availability for God to lead my life. By the way, my dad fathered me at a young age and I’m forever grateful for that,
Jamie Mitchell:
Alex.
Alex Mitchell:
Well, I would say I’d have to agree with Markie wholeheartedly in everything that he said. For me, it’s really the understanding that what our job is and role is as fathers in our household and the ultimate role and job is to be a billboard to our children, to show them who Jesus is. And if we know that that’s the start, and that’s our end goal. We use, as Markie said, we use the opportunities that we have as parents to be able to do that and be able to model that for our kids. A couple of the big things that we see is really spending intentional time with kids, with our children in the world today. Even if you’re physically in the same room with your children, if you’re on your cell phone, if you’re dealing with a problem in business or something like that, you can be distracted and you can not spend the time.
So being really, really intentional to be on the floor, I have young kids, be on the floor and connect with them at their level is critical and is an important thing. I think the other part is really making time with the family a priority and then using the moments that we do have when we are given is teachable moments and to encourage our kids, it’s amazing. Our daughter is four and we’ve been walking through her the process of explaining of who Jesus is and we’re seeing on a daily basis that she’s wrestling what does it mean to be a saved, and it’s a daily ongoing. You can see her battling in her little mind of, I am a sinner and I do need God, but I still want to sin. And so understanding that I wrestled through all of these exact same things as a child and having a dad that was there was able to coach me and encouraged me through that process really is what the ultimate goal is.
Jamie Mitchell:
Both of you are in high demand jobs. You own a business, you coach a college baseball team. Time must be your greatest enemy in some respects. Was there things, because I was right on the edge of being a workaholic, and I know Mark was a hard worker and spent time, did we help or hurt either of you? Alex, why don’t you weigh in on this? How is time and balancing time, how are you finding that?
Alex Mitchell:
You’re right. It is really, really difficult if I’m being honest. I think it’s dependent upon the season, right? So there were seasons of times where you were gone a lot more and there were seasons of times that you were there. And I think now being a parent myself, understanding what that is and looks like, and that’s okay. I think we need to be over intentional in the times when we do have additional stress at work. But I think it really all comes back to intentionality. Having a spouse that is understanding what our ultimate goal is for our family and how our business plays a role into that goal is incredibly important. But also having somebody that can hold me accountable too, to be able to say, Hey, you’re working too much and we need you here at the house.
Jamie Mitchell:
Last question. I know your dad and I, we always believed in incorporating our sons into what we do, exposing you to the things that we were a part of and involved in. Are you able to do that now as a dad with your own child?
Markie Crocco:
Yeah. I’m in the middle of it right now, uncle Jamie. I’m in Savannah, Georgia with a team called the Visitors for the Savannah Bananas, and it was a non-negotiable for me that we were going to bring the girls, and so they’re going to be here in Savannah with me for the six weeks that we’re here. We had our first opportunity the other day to bring her to the ballpark and give her a chance to meet all these outstanding young men that are involved in this organization. There’s a part of me, I was like, man, she’s going to remember this for the rest of her life. And whether it’s really neat moments like that or not, the verbiage I use is time and touch. If the window’s going to be small, we do everything I can to be present with my time and my touch. And we walked through downtown Savannah, Georgia yesterday. I held her hand the whole time, and she went on daddy’s shoulders when maybe she was not. It was my intent to make sure she felt her dad’s presence throughout the entirety of that experience. So really need opportunity we have this summer, but as dad’s, we have to hedge those things in that time and touch are going to be important in this journey. And ultimately, he’s going to honor that regardless of a schedule that we may be tied to.
Jamie Mitchell:
Well, you guys have fulfilled exactly what I wanted to do. Mark, your dad and I, we could have taken this hour and we could have taught all about being dads, but I had a funny feeling that if I got both of you guys on this program, you would tell dads what they needed to do just by your own life and your own testimony. I want you to know you guys have made your dads very proud. You love the Lord, you love your family. You’re both successful, and you’re both building on the foundation that we built into you. Chucks Weal said this, it’s never too late to do what is right. Forget the past, look to the future, be the best dad that you possibly have, and mark your kids for all eternity. We need you to do that. So until tomorrow, live and leave with courage. Have a great rest of the day.
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