The Power of Biblical Mentoring

The Power of Biblical Mentoring

July 14, 2025

Host: Hon. Sam Rohrer

Guest: Renton Rathbun

Note: This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program aired on 7/14/25. To listen to the podcast, click HERE.

Disclaimer: While reasonable efforts have been made to provide an accurate transcription, the following is a representation of a mechanical transcription and as such, may not be a word for word transcript. Please listen to the audio version for any questions concerning the following dialogue.

Sam Rohrer:

Hello and welcome to this Monday edition of Stand In the Gap Today. Hope you all had a wonderful weekend and are ready to move into this week in the power of the Lord’s strength because I don’t know about you, but we don’t have enough strength on our own, but the Lord will give to us what we need if we look to him. So that being the case, about six weeks ago here on this program, I dealt with the greatly misunderstood issue of work. Perhaps you were with us that program or remember that, but the title of that program was The Forgotten Theology of Work. And we did that because work underpins literally every aspect of life or public policy as we encountered economic and financial policy, charitable giving, and frankly everything we do work. The world has a view of work, though, which views labor more as a hardship and it seeks to control it, where if they get their way, those in positions of power get their way without consideration of what God wants, they will turn people into veritable slaves where the people’s labor only serves a select few.

Now, that’s the history of this world, isn’t it? The biblical view though of work is exactly the opposite, though made more difficult because of sin, and we covered this in that program work is of divine creation, designed to be rewarding and productive and literally an act of worship. So totally different than the world’s view. Now today my guest for the program on work then joins me again for a conversation on a theme closely associated with work, but which also has a biblical foundation and a theology. Today’s guest again is Dr. Renton Rathbun, consultant on biblical worldview instruction for BJU Press and host of his own podcast, the Renton Rathbun Show, which is a resource program designed to help parents walk through the challenges to biblical worldview which are impacting their children. So it’s for that purpose of instruction in that space in which he spends a lot of his time. The title I’ve chosen to frame today’s program is this, the Power of Biblical Mentoring, the Power of Biblical Mentoring. With that, Dr. Renton Rathbun. Renton, thanks for being back with me today and I’m really looking forward to getting into this program, which ties in so closely to the one we did about a month ago.

Renton Rathbun:

Thanks for having me back. This will be an important conversation.

Sam Rohrer:

Yeah, I think it will as well. Now the last program we did Renton on the Forgotten Theology of Work was very practical and powerful. Matter of fact, we selected that program internally here for use in our weekend feature program, which runs on about 800 stations across the country. Stand in the Gap weekend. And then you and I, along with our co-host here, Dr. Isaac Crockett, actually recorded a two-part TV series on that same theme. So it was important and it was well received. Now the theme for today, the Power of Biblical mentoring is closely linked. And while many people may view mentoring as something old and archaic, most would be unable, I think to comprehensively describe the full depth of the power of mentoring and particularly biblical mentoring. So here, let’s start it with this. Can you establish a working definition of mentoring, the purpose for mentoring and its connection to this activity we’re calling work?

Renton Rathbun:

Well, Titus two gives us the basic structure for mentoring. What we see is first of all, it is designed for the older to give to the younger, to give instruction to the younger. Now it’s not just being old that gets you to be in that position. You have to have godly character. That’s another standard in Titus two. So the elderly who have good godly character as a prerequisite are to instruct or teach the younger now to teach them a skill as you read through Titus two. But the skill is not arbitrary skills, the skills that enables godly character. So it’s almost as if what it’s saying there, if I were to give just a plain definition, mentoring is the work of a godly elder in teaching the younger a skill that will enhance godly character. So I’ll repeat that because I know that’s a mouthful.

Mentoring is the work of a godly elder in teaching the younger a skill that will enhance godly character. Now of course, the purpose of this is to duplicate ourselves because what we have to realize is as we pass, the next generation will take our place and are they ready? So the purpose is to duplicate ourselves for preparing the next generation to take our place. And the connection to work is that work is not neutral. It is designed to enable godly character as a way of mimicking our God. This is a skill taught by those who have been practicing this for a lifetime and that’s why the older are to teach the younger.

Sam Rohrer:

Alright, that is excellent. Let’s go right into this because we’re going to go back ladies and gentlemen and revisit these things as we build them out. Just laying this foundation here to beginning when I searched the internet for references, for instance, for mentoring, lots of articles pop up like mentoring in the workplace. What is mentoring and why are mentors important and so forth? And you could go on and on point being mentoring is well established in certain sectors of our culture and where it is, it’s generally viewed positively. But from your perspective, what’s the difference between the secular mentoring process and the biblical approach to mentoring?

Renton Rathbun:

We sometimes forget how much the world borrows from a biblical worldview. They can’t help but to because like us, they are made in the image of God, which means there’s going to be things that they are going to lean towards just as image bearers of God. So I call these things that they lean towards creation norms, things that the way God made his world, he made it in a certain way that certain things work out well if you follow those norms. And I think what we find is a world that has found those norms and have followed them. But you see, here’s the difference. The difference with secular mentoring is that it’s inescapably pragmatic teaching a skill is for the sake of the skill. Now, there might be different ways they want to teach. It might be through nostalgia like my grandpa taught me how to fish this way and to bait my hook this way. And so we have that, or it might be efficiency because you’re being taught by a company how to do things. It all becomes utilitarian and arbitrary. Even the character that’s built is just to satisfy the use of the skill. Biblical mentoring is grounded in the character of God and that character is to be replicated in the heart of the mentee.

Sam Rohrer:

I didn’t know for sure how are you going to answer that Renton, but that really is perfect. Ladies and gentlemen. The world does borrow the things that are good in this world come right off the page of scripture. But there’s a distinct difference between living for self, the pragmatic approach and living for the glory of God, which is that the heart of biblical instruction. And that’s where we’re going to go next in next segment as we build out and lay down the biblical foundation, the historical foundation for mentoring, look at what scripture says and then go from there. Well, if you’re just joining us today, thanks for being with us. Dr. Renton Rathbun is my special guest again today. And we’re doing a program that is linked to one that we did back about six weeks ago. That one was entitled The Forgotten Theology of Work, a really, really practical program that if you did not catch it, I would encourage you to go back and listen to that.

And you can find it again on our app Stand in the Gap app or on our website, stand in the gap radio.com. Today’s theme is linked to that. And so we’re doing this intentionally and they really work together as you see that they will as we walk through it. This one today entitling the power of biblical mentoring. Now here’s this concept of going into it. While modern mentoring, according to secular definition accurately contains the aspect of advising or instructing since that comes from the root of mentor, biblical mentoring is a practice where mature believers, and that’s just what you heard Dr. Renton Rathbunn just talk about where he said it’s really the work of the godly older to teach a skill to the younger to develop godly character. And that wasn’t exactly the word for word as you said it. I didn’t write that down, I couldn’t get it written down that quickly, Renton, but that’s the idea.

So anyways, but the biblical mentoring is a practice where I’m saying mature believers guide others in their faith following Christ’s example, a practice frankly that is highlighted and encouraged throughout the entirety of God’s word, old Testament and new. Now Renton in this segment, let’s establish the theological and historical foundation and origin of mentoring. Just let everybody know that it didn’t just begin, it’s been around for a long time, but from a biblical worldview perspective, would you build out this foundation for mentoring its origin and in particular its Christian purpose that goes to the Harvard. Why are we doing it?

Renton Rathbun:

Well, it actually begins in Genesis as early as Genesis chapter three. Adam and Eve have just sinned and they hide and you think, well why are they hiding? I mean that’s weird. They know God is everywhere, but they’re hiding because God made a habit of walking with them in the cool of the day. And then you have to think, well, walking God is a spirit. What do you mean walking and scripture’s clear that they heard him walking and so he has some kind of weight and feet and all this strange picture that comes into our mind. Well, what we see is that God is being a mentor in some ways what he’s doing is he’s condescending to Adam and Eve. So he could have just come as a spirit. They wouldn’t see anything, they wouldn’t hear anything but he condescended to them where they were and what their needs were.

He did it in the cool of the day. A spirit doesn’t care about whether it’s a hot or a cold day, but he did it to come for their comfort. So you see this condescension, then you see God initiating. So God is coming to them. He initiates the contact and he keeps it consistent. So hid because they knew he was coming because he always comes at the cool of the day and then he teaches them skills. You see, how did Adam know how to farm? How to take care of animals, how to do anything? Well, God is teaching him how to subdue and rule over the earth just as God demonstrated his subduing and ruling over the earth when he created the earth. And so you also see after they sin and fail, God does not abandon them, but he provides a way for them to become, to be sons and daughters of himself.

And so you see this condescension, you see this initiation, you see this teaching and you see this provision of a way for them to follow him. And you see that starts in Genesis three, but then you see an Exodus 20. It talks about this generational faithfulness in the 10 Commandments that although he will condemn the third and the fourth generation, he will bless thousands of generations that bless him. And then you have Deuteronomy six that teaches, teaches parents to teach your children when they rise up in the morning, when they sit down to eat, when they get up and when they go down to sleep. You see what happens when a generation comes about in judges two that doesn’t know the Lord and how devastating that becomes in the book of judges you see in Malachi four six at the hearts of the fathers will be turned to the sons.

And so you see this pattern in the Old Testament, but then you see it in the new testament where in Luke Christ talks about mercy being from generation to generation to those that fear him. You see in two Timothy Paul praising the grandmother and mother of Timothy and raising him up in the faith, you see this in acts, you see in Galatians of the seed of Abraham is Christ and we are his seed. You see this generational faithfulness constantly being repeated. And how does that happen? It’s not through magic or a wave of a wand. It is through the faithfulness of one generation passing down a mentoring skillset that grows them in their character of God in their hearts.

Sam Rohrer:

That’s perfect. That leads right into my next question. This logically build from that because in the mentoring process established in the garden to Adam and Eve themselves as you’ve built out and then modeled in the directions for it given throughout the entirety of the Old Testament in it of the new, here’s these two parts I’d like you to go to in the mentoring process because it is a process. It’s not a onetime event. I’ve sit down, I’m going to impart all my knowledge to you download like a computer from a flash drive. No, it’s a process that God has established, but there are two parts. The mentor, the one who is teaching and the mentee, the one who is being taught both of them must, well they do according to God’s principles. I mean a standard model. They have duties and responsibilities that they have to work together, otherwise this process won’t work. Can you identify some of those characteristics that must be present on both the mentor and the mentee?

Renton Rathbun:

Yes. So the mentor following God’s model needs to condescend to the mentee. This doesn’t mean condescending in a way of pride, nor does it mean condescending in a way of compromise, but rather understanding where the mentee is and meeting them where they are with the intention of building them up. So there’s a condescension that’s needed. They might be immature. You don’t get to often mentor someone that’s already where they need to be so that you need to condescend to them. But the mentor also needs to be the initiator and the one that keeps things consistent as a way of modeling to the mentee how they should be acting one day when they become a mentor. There has to be something to teach. You can’t just sit there and just download a bunch of really good wisdom. There has to be something to teach them, a real skill that will help provide for them a pathway to a good character.

Because in the end, the mentor wants to be replaced. That’s an important characteristic of a mentor. The mentee has to be humble. The mentee has to say, I need help. And being humble is not fake humble. It’s the reality that I need help. They need to respond quickly to the initiation and not drag their feet. But when the initiation comes, encourage your mentor by saying, yes, please help me. And they need to be teachable. That’s a skill that is being lost in today’s world. Someone that is able to say, I need this teaching and I can trust it. And that’s the fourth thing for the mentee is that they need to trust the person that’s mentoring them so that they can trust the pathway the mentor is giving them.

Sam Rohrer:

Alright, that is excellent. I’m looking at my time here. Let’s get into this. I don’t think we’ll finish it in this segment because the next segment we’re going to talk about building out this model and actually making it work in our society. We’re not the Old Testament, we are not the New Testament. We’re living in a complicated, to some respects, culture Renton because there’s so much busyness and so many distractions. Which brings me to this question, you can start and then we’ll continue. But that is this. There are things in our culture that is absent from God, pragmatic in its approach that directly competes against biblical truth, biblical principles, and this biblical process for mentoring. What are some of those that you can share that will challenge every parent, every person who wants to model or on behalf to begin for the first time or further develop this concept of biblical mentoring?

Renton Rathbun:

Well, the first thing we have to recognize is that our culture has taught everyone that real wisdom is defined by being tech savvy. And I know that sounds strange, but nowadays when someone struggles with technology, they are considered less wise. And the more wise you are or the more you are savvy with what technology has to offer today, it’s a silly thing to believe, but we have come to believe it and that has made us, it’s given us an excuse to say that the elderly do not have value. And so if they don’t have value in technology than what could they possibly offer me? Because the prevailing wisdom of our worldview today is that the new is more relevant than the old and we can’t trust the old. You can trust what’s new because that’s what’s relevant and that has become the big push with churches as well as our worldview of this world that we live in.

Sam Rohrer:

And ladies and gentlemen, have you not noticed that? I’m sure we all have and it’s somewhat common. We somewhat excuse it. Well this next generation who comes and they want to do things differently because the old is the old. Yeah, that happens. Is that the right way to happen? Well, alright, we’re going to come back. We’re going to build out further some of these things that challenge the biblical process of mentoring and then we will continue on, stay with us, we’ll be right back. Well, Renton. Let’s continue on before we get into this next segment about building out a model of mentoring for today. And that is the identifying those particularly I would say, powerful challenges to the biblical mentoring process. And you mentioned one about this concept that, well, if you don’t understand technology, you’re not smart and therefore you don’t have anything to say. And that’s really the attitude of many younger, it’s a cultural attitude frankly, but extends to the older, which can take many who would be grandparent type age perhaps, or even parents to think, well maybe I don’t have anything to say and anyway, so build out from there.

Renton Rathbun:

Yeah. So it’s interesting how much we have bought into the idea that the new is more valuable or more relevant than the old. We even try to change history as best we can. The socialists of today are now calling themselves democratic socialists as if back in the old days they did it wrong, but we’re going to do it right this time. And they add a couple points and think they’re convincing people. But that idea of it has to be new to be relevant, has permeated not just the minds of our youth but the minds of the older who have curtailed their whole ministries towards that. Because the elders have come to believe this lie that their wisdom is of no value. These are just stories from my life. No one really cares. Maybe someone might want to listen to a story, but stories are a conduit.

But within those stories is incredible wisdom that changes lives. And what we have come to believe is because they’re old, they’re no longer important. And the elders have also come to believe that their best life is to become what everyone wants them to become harmless and docile. And when as people get older, they’re more than happy for them to retire and just stop being involved in the church, stop being involved in everyone’s life. Just be docile, harmless people and don’t dig into the hearts of the younger. And so the problem with the younger is that they have bought into a worldview, but the older has bought into the same worldview and have accepted it. And that’s why I always say as you’re getting older, don’t see retirement as a way of drifting off into never, never land. Look at retirement as a way of being able to dig deeper into the hearts of the next generation because they are in desperate need of it.

Sam Rohrer:

And that actually takes us back to partly the mentor and the mentee, the mentor, godly mentor. As they grow older, they in fact should have more wisdom. That’s the gray hairs aspect of scripture. And therefore wisdom, true wisdom is eternal because it’s based on truth. So just because of specifics ladies and gentlemen, that may change in today’s modern culture, those principles of truth and truth does not change. So it goes to the heart of what you’re saying. Boy, we could build that out and just keep going. But let’s go into this in the model because when I look through scripture, most people would say, well if you think about the models of mentoring in the Old Testament, you took us right back to Genesis, which is interesting of God there with Adam and Eve himself. But then later then well-known Moses and Joshua or Elijah and Elisha come to mind New Testament, Paul and Timothy or Paul and Titus, which is where you went for some instruction in Titus two, but the model way back. But its power though lost I think because we’re not seeing it done is ever new if we do it. So just like the forgotten theology of work rent, I would submit that there’s also forgotten theology of mentoring. So how does it work? And here’s the question I’d like for you to describe in a practical sense what a biblically based model of mentoring in 2025 could look like and how would it work?

Renton Rathbun:

What I would do is I would start with the most powerful institution on earth. Because if you really want to make change, you have to change. Change has to happen within the most powerful institutions and the most powerful institution on earth is the church. We need our pastors to stop begging young people to come to their church and persuading them to sit in their pews but rather challenge them say, coming to our church you are going to be challenged because we have one of the greatest resources on earth and that is the older who will teach you how to be the next generation that will lead this church. And so churches must begin a process of creating pathways for young people to connect to the old people in the church. And it would require the following. Number one, you need pulpit discipline. In other words, there has to be a pastor that challenges the young to engage with the elderly and the elderly to engage with the young.

Number two, we need churches that start mentorship training for the elderly because not only have we forgotten the models of mentoring, but even those who are to mentor may need training to be able to do it well and to be able to wake up those muscles that may not have been used in a long time of how to mentor others. We need mentee training, in other words, training young people how to be mentored. I think we are so far behind in what mentoring looks like that even to be mentored, I don’t think young people knows what it means. They don’t know what it means to grit, have grit and stick it out when things get hard to meet with people they may not connect to right away because they’re not young like them or have video games in common or whatever it is that they need to have in common in order to listen to someone, but rather learn how to trust the elderly based on the Bible’s direction to trust them instead of them having something that they feel they can connect to. And number four, we need pathways of a skill to develop and that is something that pastors need to start thinking about. How can we think of that need development in our church that we can have people trained for?

Sam Rohrer:

Okay, again, so many places here we can go Renton. But a question that comes to mind I think for people listening to this would be alright, that idea of our churches really should be thinking about in the mentoring process, instructing actually teaching those who are older, how to impart wisdom and for the younger how to seek and to receive wisdom part of the mentoring process. But here is the question I was thinking about, you seek that which is valuable or you think is worth your time, that’s the younger people and the older say, what do we have to give? So we got a problem I think of priorities or that to which we assign value. So with young people, most thinking is, well, I’m not going to be able to mentor them in how to do math or science or something else, so what is it that I’m actually giving them? Would you build that out a little bit about what it is that may or may not be in the classroom? We’re not talking about grandparents coming into the classroom and teaching in the normal typical education, but they are imparting knowledge. Explain that a little bit.

Renton Rathbun:

We live at a time where what seems like a disadvantage is actually a huge advantage right now. We have a generation that is more confused than ever. They have what I call college disillusionment. They don’t know why they’re even going to college anymore. There has been this rebellion against even going to college because we have sold them a bill of goods saying if you go to college you’ll be successful. That hasn’t happened. And now people are wondering what do we even doing? There’s something I call a purpose malaise where people just don’t know what their purpose is. They don’t know what they’re supposed to do. There’s a lack of vision for themselves to know how to go out and do anything. And so we have this idea that we have this generation that is lost. I remember my generation, generation X, our problem was that we were motivated but motivated to do the wrong thing and we needed our motivation to shift.

Now we have a generation that doesn’t even have motivation. How do we teach them to have vision for their life? How do we teach them to have purpose and what does that mean? What am I supposed to be doing? Now that sounds very, very basic, but it is at the heart of the issue of today’s young people. It is at the heart of the older that knows what those purposes ought to be, that knows that can discern what gifts young people have that need to be grown. I think we have a generation that doesn’t even know what their gifts are. Most kids, and I’ve been teaching college for over 25 years, most kids that are majoring in something are majoring in something, not because they have a gift in it, but because they think it would be cool or interesting. And that is not the direction our kids should be going. We need older people to invest in these kids and say, this is your gift. This is what your purpose ought to be, this is how you pursue it. These are the problems I ran into. And so I can help you with those very basic things that I think this generation is missing.

Sam Rohrer:

Ladies and gentlemen, many of you listening to this program are older. There are many who have children that you are raising. Think about all of this. I know that if you’ve been listening to this, your mind is probably really going and say, wow, what can I do? There’s a lot I can do. What should I do? Alright, when we come back, we’re going to build on what we’ve already shared, which I hope has been intriguing and already enlightening and try to balance it out with some application, practical application for parents and grandparents and then the churches. Well, if you’ve been with us, excuse me, got to clear my throat there. When you’re on radio, you have to do that, otherwise you blast people’s ears out. So I apologize. But if you’ve been with us from the beginning on this program where our theme has been the power of biblical mentoring, I made a connection to that.

This program connects with one we did over a month ago entitled The Forgotten Theology of Work, where in that setting we connected biblically the concept of work as not being related to the fall of sin, but it was in a perfect Garden of Eden. It was given by God and literally moved to the heart of properly Done is actually worship where there’s a direct connection to the glorifying of God in what we do with our hands. And there’s a purpose in all of that mentoring as we’ve described here today, is actually that is God’s way of continuing that process. That both involves skill as we’ve talked about, as well as values and attitudes. So in the Old Testament and Renton has referred to a Deuteronomy six, there’s a passage there by fathers teaching their children and their children’s children, which means grandchildren. So there’s a familial family role, father role in passing along those views of God so that their children know how to work with their hands of a skill, but an attitude of fearing God and understanding God’s requirements for blessing.

Along comes Jesus Christ in the great commission and he instructed the disciples to go out and by us too, go out into the world, create more disciples, teaching them to obey his commands. It effectively is mentoring them in the faith. Alright, now these commands as laid out by scripture and God’s model haven’t changed. We’ve changed the fact we don’t know anything about it or know little about it is not God’s fault. It’s our fault. And it shows up in culture now, Renton in that regard. Now, can the church, you’ve already talked about it, expand on it however you want it, but the church in our day, how can it fulfill the mentoring command? You’ve already laid out some print. We may want to repeat some of them and then move from there into the family because actually the family predated the church. So it’s even more fundamental for families to be imparting this. How that can actually be done in our, I’m going to say frankly, hostile culture here in 2025

Renton Rathbun:

When it comes to the church, pastors need to understand the power that they wield as shepherds of their congregation. Because when it comes to the church, it begins with the pastor. What you find is most congregations mimic the attitudes and even behaviors and relationship styles of the pastor. It’s why some people come for a while, then they leave. Some people stay and become members. It’s because there is a culture that a pastor creates. He creates it in the pulpit. He creates it with his people one-on-one. And so they are the gatekeepers. They have the power to create pathways to mentorships, training, skill, instruction, and what the congregation will end up valuing. If he becomes obsessed with trying to get young people door and keep young people in the seats, he will be tempted to try and please young people. And young people don’t need to be pleased.

They need to be challenged, trained and shaped because they are the ones who will become the next leaders of the church. They will become the ones that have to one day mentor others. And so they need to know that when a young person comes into the church, they need to know that coming into this church means I am entering a process of change. I’m not coming here to grace this place with my presence or to see what I can get out of these people or see what kind of glory I can find. Because I know that there’s a lot of pastors that try to keep young people by giving them responsibilities too quickly. They try to give them power things that will keep them engaged. But what they need is to come to a church knowing I’m entering a process of change in which the older people here are vital to my growth.

They are not wallpaper that I overlook to see if there’s people my age here, they are the ones that are vital to my growth. And a pastor can make that happen. A pastor can create those kinds of connections and pathways so that young people stop coming into churches thinking that they are the star of the show. But they come into churches knowing this is where I’m going to change this is I am entering an entire process here. And then when we look at our parents and grandparents, let me just say this, I’m going to become a grandparent. Well, I’m already a grandparent. My daughter-in-law is pregnant. She is going to be giving birth we Lord willing in September. And so I understand the need for grandparents as well as parents. But we live in a very strange place here in America. There’s a local pastor here in town where I live, but he’s from another country.

And he came to me once and he said, you Americans are so unusual, says as soon as your kid turns 18, you send them away to school and they end up staying away from home. He said, don’t you see the value in having a grandma and grandpa that knows the Lord and pours themselves into the hearts of your children? I just thought as an American, my first thought is, how will my child be successful? We have to send them to a school a million miles away so that they will get the right degree so that they can be successful. Because we’re always thinking of success in American terms. We are not thinking about success in biblical terms. Will my child be successful as someone that goes to New York City and becomes a millionaire? Or will my child be more successful if they stay at home and become a plumber and the grandparents are able to pour themselves into his kids and there is this environment of growth around their kids and we just don’t think that way.

We think in terms of the New York City guys way more successful than the plumber. And what we don’t think about is this generational faithfulness that is so important to God. And so I would say this to grandparents. Find your thing with your grandkids. What is your thing? What’s the skill you want to teach them so that when you pass, they have that skill that drew them to the Lord? That skill that made them excited about God’s world. That skill that made them as neutral as it might sound, might help them direct them towards better character that would mimic their God. Because that is the kind of skill and work that we, if I can say it this way, we grandparents need to start thinking about because we need to know that we are being replaced. And how we replace ourselves is just as important as who replaces us. So your work is not done never.

Sam Rohrer:

Well, Renton, you brought us right up to the close of the program, ladies and gentlemen, so much gold here in this program, practical for all of us listening, no matter our age, and may I encourage all who are listening, if you’re younger, reach out to those who are older in your family or those in your church. If you don’t have in your family and those who are your older who know the Lord, think about ways that you can invest in those which are younger. It’s our duty, it’s our opportunity. And perhaps Renton will need to pick up and pursue this even a little bit further because of its practicality. But ladies and gentlemen, thank you for being with us here today on Stand In the Gap Today.