AI in Education: The End of Objective Thought?

AI in Education: The End of Objective Thought?

October 13, 2025

Host: Hon. Sam Rohrer

Guest: Dr. Renton Rathbun

Note: This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program aired on 10/13/25. To listen to the podcast, click HERE.

Disclaimer: While reasonable efforts have been made to provide an accurate transcription, the following is a representation of a mechanical transcription and as such, may not be a word for word transcript. Please listen to the audio version for any questions concerning the following dialogue.

Sam Rohrer:

Hello and welcome to this Monday edition of Stand In the Gap Today. And it’s also our monthly focus on education, biblical worldview and apologetics with Dr. Renton Rathbun. Dr. Rathbun is a speaker and he’s a consultant on biblical worldview instruction for BJU Press, the world’s largest producer of quality integrated K to 12 Christian curriculum, which in superior fashion it really does, it interweaves an applied biblical worldview approach to Christian education. And today we’re going to engage an issue impacting every classroom in America as well as well, frankly, the thing that we’ll talk about impacting all of entertAInment, all of media, all of business and government. And that is the institutionalization of the technology referred to as, yes, you guessed it, artificial intelligence, AI, every school at every level, every teacher, every student, and every parent of every student is grappling right now with this technology as I speak, if certAIn policies are not put in place now, more aspects of human life and of course education is going to be reshaped forever.

And may I suggest not for the better in the long term, maybe even in the short term. And that challenge is the focus of our conversation today, the title of which I have chosen to frame this program, AI in Education, the end of objective thought. Okay, that’s a question. AI in education is at the end of objective thought. We’re going to go further into that. But before we launch into this theme, I just have to mention one item that’s in leading headline news today. And that’s this hours ago Donald Trump spoke to the Israeli Knesset and Israel there welcomed home the final hostages held by Hamas. It’s all part of the quote, peace deal. And while we can and truly, genuinely should be thankful for the return of those prisoners, we should be very cautious and alert as well to the much bigger picture. And why is that here?

Just from this reason, the enemies of Israel are regrouping as we speak. Do not think that this peace deal has removed the causes of the war. Not at all around the world. anti-Israel groups are literally marching on streets of cities across the world now having changed their familiar chant from the river to the sea, we will be free to literally from free Gaza to destroy Israel. It hasn’t really stopped. Now for believers who understand God’s word, we must all things in clear perspective, understanding the warning of the Apostle Paul in one Thessalonians five, one to three. Lemme just read this as just a commentary on this first part before we go into our theme, but this is what the apostle Paul says there. He says Now, now concerning the times and the seasons, brother, you have no need to have anything written to you. For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

Here’s key. While people are saying as they are right now, I’m putting this in, they are saying this in Israel right now, back the Apostle Paul, while people are saying there is peace and security or peace and safety, then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pAIns come upon a pregnant woman and they will not escape. So with that being sAId, let that balance because we must view all things through the lens of scripture. And that’s one that comes to me today as I think about what’s happening. So let me invite in right now. Dr. Renton Rathbun who hosts his own podcast, the Renton Rathbun show that he does to help parents walk through the challenges to biblical worldview that are impacting their children has a website, Renton rathbun.com. And with that, welcome Renton back to the program. Great theme we’re talking about today. So anyways, welcome back.

Renton Rathbun:

Thank you and thank you for having me for this theme because I think this is going to be a lot more important than what people think

Sam Rohrer:

I think as well. So let’s get right into it. Before we identify the core requirements you’re going to get into it of what actually constitutes Christian education and then consider artificial intelligence, which is a theme and how it’s impacting those requirements that constitute good Christian education. And then we’re going to talk about how Christian parents and Christian schools who are striving to provide a biblical and Christian education must grapple with this issue of AI. Let me ask you this first question from an overall perspective and be that from an apologetic or a policy perspective, here’s this, how has Christian education to this point considered when human technology is appropriately included within educational instruction and when it should be resisted? Because AI is not the first aspect of technology. So is there an overall guideline that’s been in place?

Renton Rathbun:

Oh boy, that’s a fantastic question. I wish more Christian institutions, whether it be high schools, elementary schools or colleges, had a standard by which new technology could be filtered through for that question. So I’ve spent over 25 years in the educational system and I can tell you at least anecdotally and with some research that would support this, that typically Christian institutions, Christian education institutions respond in what I’ve seen in two different ways. Either the school doesn’t understand the technology and so they ignore it or the school is afraid of becoming irrelevant and left behind. So they merely ask the question, will this technology be an advantage or disadvantage to our school? And of course that’s the wrong question, the right question any Christian institution should be asking is, number one, does this technology align with our already robust biblical worldview? And if you don’t have that, then you won’t have an answer to that question.

Sam Rohrer:

Alright, that’s excellent. Well you could go so much further, but that’s great. And so ladies and gentlemen, the point is as we think here now of AI, we’re just going to get into it, this other broader needs to be put in place because AI is not the only aspect of technology. It is one though that is very current and impactful. Let me phrase the question here to you Renton, and then you can go as far as you can get. But let me ask you, could you identify the core requirements, put it that way for what you would say is biblically consistent Christian education? So you launch it here and then we’ll carry it over in the next segment.

Renton Rathbun:

Okay, so at the heart of a biblically consistent Christian education is simply this. Are we giving kids the skillset of image bearing? Because image bearing is a skillset throughout Christian history. We have decided through God’s word, that image bearing comes in three perspectives. Number one, knowledge, number two, righteousness, and number three, holiness. And we can show in the next segment how those three things are at the core of a Christian education.

Sam Rohrer:

Alright, that’s an excellent setup. Ladies and gentlemen. Stay with us regardless of what age you are, whether you have children who are in school, high school, grade school, I’m going to say college too, it doesn’t make any difference. This question, AI, artificial intelligence in education, the end of objective thought. In other words, what’s the impact AI is having, not just on the process, but I’m going to submit literally on our brains, we’ll be back in a month. Well welcome back and if you’re just joining us, thanks for being on board today. We’re dealing with a theme today that I think really is of interest or should be to everyone listening to me right now. Why is that? Well, because what we’re talking about is this matter of AI, artificial intelligence, and I’ve done numbers of programs from different perspectives on what is AI and all of that and where government is going with it and how it’s driving databases that are being established and how it’s going to be interconnected to literally individual IDs and all of that.

We’ve talked about a lot of that application. One we’ve not dealt with and we are today with Dr. Renton Rathbun, who’s with me again today is its impact on education and specifically we’re bearing down on Christian education. Our theme is AI in education, the end of objective thought because we’re going to deal with that Renton, let’s get back into this now you were just beginning to lay out what would be the essentials of Christian education or put it that way, what you were actually talking about as the skill sets that are delivered as a part of true biblically consistent Christian education. Would you identify those first and then we’ll walk into how AI may impact those?

Renton Rathbun:

Sure. So what we looked at was that at the heart of Christian education, this is what separates us from education in the world or even the foolish idea that education can be neutral. Christian education is teaching kids the skillset of image bearing and how do we do that through three support skill sets, which is knowledge, righteousness, and holiness. Now we get this from God’s word. So Colossians three 10 says, and I have put on a new self who is being renewed to a new knowledge, or I’m sorry, a true knowledge according to the image of the one who created him. And so what you see here is a command to be like Christ and the father’s whole intention is for us to be conformed to the image of his son. And that image bearing work begins with this true knowledge. And so there is a sense in which there is a knowledge that when taken out of the context of that becomes, if I can put it this way, I know this will drive some people crazy if I say this, a false knowledge, but a true knowledge is one that is in accordance with the image of the one that created us.

Righteousness and holiness is found in Ephesians 4 24 and put on the new self, which is the likeness of God has created in righteousness and holiness of the truth. And so you see this righteousness and holiness being talked about and being in the likeness of God, that image bearing work. And if you look at these things, what you find is these are the building blocks of education, knowledge, righteousness, right and wrong, holiness, how do I act? And so those three things come into the image bearing work that is at the heart of Christian education.

Sam Rohrer:

That’s excellent. Boy, we could bear down on those, but let’s walk in now to the next step. Alright, now image bearing representing who Christ is. Again, we’re talking Christian education, so that’s why knowledge, righteousness and holiness, the world doesn’t care about those things, but we as believers, God does Jesus. Christ does, the Bible does. So that is Christian education, alright, with those established walk next into this in a general sense or however specific you want to get, we’ll break out its impact on schools and students in a step-by-step fashion here. But now when we take an apply technology specifically that of artificial intelligence as an adjunct or a part of this technology, which is now upon us, it’s everywhere, how does that impact the area, the skillset of image bearing in the inculcating of knowledge, righteousness and holiness? How do you see that impacting?

Renton Rathbun:

So the biggest fear that we should have when it comes to how AI will impact us is this, and remember this, that the idea that we might start believing that knowledge is neutral once we start believing that there’s a domino effect with the image of God. Because what we find in Proverbs one, seven is that knowledge has no neutrality whatsoever. That knowledge, even the beginning of knowledge is the fear of the Lord. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge itself. That means knowledge has a moral aspect to it that cannot be removed. And so what we think about is think about what it means to know something. It is not merely data retrieval. We take data and we identify it. That’s a process. We analyze that data, that’s a process. We evaluate the data using a criteria, that’s a process and we formulate new ideas from that data that we have analyzed and evaluated. That process is what we have typically called what you’re saying. This idea of objective thinking. However these processes are now the property of AI, yes, AI can identify things and then we can take it from there, but we rarely do. The prompts are usually to make AI, analyze, evaluate, formulate for us all these new ideas so that we don’t have to do that work that is at the heart of knowledge itself.

Sam Rohrer:

And boy, what you’re saying are so true and I’m going to suggest I think of the verse as a man thinketh in his heart. So is he alright thinking ladies and gentlemen, is that not a part of education? Is that not a part of our heart and our brain? And again, knowledge, righteousness and a ultimate outworking of holiness that ought to be for Christian education. But let me suggest that what Renton you’re talking about right now is moved. Well, it’s into the general sense. There’s an article I just found today, it’s entitled Will AI Eat Out Our Brains? It’s an epic times and I’m just going to quote this for a piece of it. The CEO of Walmart is talking about how AI is so dramatically altering everything about the entire picture of Walmart retooling it. As he’s talking about some benefits, he sees a lot of pain.

But in it, it says progress. It says getting the answers is not the source of human progress. Progress comes from learning. The only way to learn is through the discomfort required to get the answer. You first learn the method, you apply it, but you get it wrong. You get it wrong again. You find your errors, you fix them, you still get it wrong, you find more errors. Eventually you hit the answer. That’s when it becomes satisfying. You feel your brain working, you have upgraded your mind, you feel a sense of achievement. Only through this process do you learn something. It comes from the path of failure and deploying the human brain and the process of problem solving. And then it concludes with this is, anyway, I don’t have time to read the whole thing, but ultimately you bypass this, you alter your very brain, okay, supporting everything that you are saying in a general sense. So let’s go back now and further carry it out in a specific way. How is artificial intelligence impacting Christian schools themselves and the delivery of Christian education and impacting students in particular as you are witnessing

Renton Rathbun:

For years now? And if I can be specific with the group I’m connected with for years now, BJU press has been calling out to Christian schools. You need to have a biblical worldview. You need to know what it is. You need to live by it because as the world changes, this will determine who you really are. Now what we have are a lot of Christian schools that liked Christianes education where it was a moral place. Your teachers were Christians and you might try and use some Christian curriculum here and there, but for the most part, probably most of your curriculum is the secular books. But that’s okay because those secular books, we have Christian teachers to fix all the bad parts and we’ll just sanitize the parts that are neutral knowledge. And if that’s the kind of Christian education you’ve been building, then when AI comes around, you will reinforce in those kids’ heads that knowledge is a neutral state of mind that comes in data dumps that you can then sift through and make decisions that now we have prompts.

So AI will do that for you. And what we don’t understand is that AI has moral boundaries all written in the algorithm all throughout, and it’s written by unbelieving, godless people who are far from ever believing that reality is found in God’s word. And so they’re actually profiting off this whole system. As long as everyone comes to the table already believing knowledge is neutral and does not begin with the fear of the Lord. If we believe that, then even when we send AI to go out and retrieve some data, that retrieval process is still a moral process. And so when we ask it to analyze and break things down, the more we start believing that that is a moral activity. We are contradicting God’s word that says every part of your image bearing work begins with the fear of the Lord.

Sam Rohrer:

So ladies and gentlemen, education, all right, Christian education, they’re not the same. And Christian education, the pursuit of knowledge seeking true pursuit of knowledge, righteousness, tempering it, holiness being the objective. Okay, does AI impact that? Absolutely. And that’s what we’re talking about AI in education, the end of objective thought, end of righteous thought. I’m going to stick that in there too because ultimately it’s a part of it. Dr. Renton Rathbun is my guest. We’ll continue in this discussion when we return as we return to our program today. Again, I don’t often do this and don’t do it very much, but I think it’s necessary here. If you listen to the program regularly, you will note that we have varied guests. Our guests on this program are carefully chosen. Some are repeating, meaning they’re on the program, most cases once a month and be that in areas of education or prophecy in the Middle East or geopolitics or whatever, we will do that.

But the guests are expert, meaning from a human perspective, they have excelled and have proven themselves to be knowledgeable in their area of expertise. And I don’t go over all of those and I haven’t done that for my guest today, Dr. Renton Rathbun. But I’m just going to tell you just a little bit of his background. I’ve introduced him, he’s a speaker and consultant on biblical worldview instruction for BJU press that you know, and that’s generally what I say, but he’s also been a professor for 20 years in both secular and Christian schools. He’s got a BS in English education and an MA in interpretive speech from Bob Jones University. He’s got an MFA in creative writing from Minnesota State University, an MA in philosophy from the University of Toledo, A THM from Puritan Reform Theological Seminary, and a PhD in Apologetics from Westminster Theological.

Now I say that just so you know that everybody’s got an opinion and we all need that. We need to be fully persuaded in our own mind. That’s a biblical position that every believer needs to be. So we try to provide helpful information on the issues of the day, such as what we’re dealing with today, AI technology and its application to education. And when we try to do that, we try to do it with people who actually have an opinion that is not just spurious and off the cuff, but studied. So I just say that as we go back into it, Renton in light of now of the dangers of AI. And if you want to build out a little bit more from what we’re saying in the last segment, do that first and then move into this because that is this, in light of the dangers of artificial intelligence, which you identified some very, very clearly, the algorithms as we’ve talked about on previous programs, you and I and other guests, they’re human designed, the algorithms that determine how that process of technology goes out and sorts through and accumulates and then summarizes that data collected worldwide in the internet of things is geared and is organized and it’s done from an unbelieving mindset.

I have interacted with AI before and have had it come back and it has actually agreed yes, a secular perspective, yes, not a biblical worldview. I’ve had that come back and say yes. After digging deeper and deeper, deeper with them, they’ve said yes, there is one view, one worldview that we do not agree with basically, and that is a biblical worldview. So it says that they identify that. So Renton, goes right to the heart of what you’re saying, we have to be careful. So in light of that, is there any legitimate role for AI within a biblically consistent K to 12 Christian education?

Renton Rathbun:

Yeah, I think there are some things, and one thing to remember is a lot of the people that are running Christian schools right now are probably Gen Xers, people that are in their forties, maybe fifties, people that really have the power to do things. And from our generation you have people that have developed all these skills and have, AI hadn’t come around until just a few years ago, let alone the iPhone itself wasn’t even around until 2008. And so you have these steps that we’ve already taken in my generation so that when all this new stuff comes, it’s like, oh, this saves me time. I have the skills, but now this other thing will do these steps for me. And what we forget is there’s a generation coming up that have not had those skills, have not had 10 to 20 years of honing the skill of knowing how to be discerning about how I identify things and being detailed in how I analyze things and having years of honing that criteria so that when I evaluate something, I have a good criteria by which to evaluate.

Instead when they use AI, it says, find me this. And the algorithms will go to what the kind of answers that the designers kind of want, even if those sources are less reliable, they bring the, because I’ve gone through that several times where I’ve seen what they brought up and I look at where they got their answer and it’s very unreliable and there’s lots of reliable places, but those reliable places were saying things that they didn’t want. And so I say that to say, think about that when you’re thinking about, well, what can I use AI stuff for? And so there’s AI products out there that develop a marketing system that if you already know the strength of your school, you can develop marketing plans and logos and all kinds of media posts with video clips from your school. And AI can do that stuff for you can create clips from larger videos, things that aren’t your forte, but would probably cost you 50 to 60 grand a year if you paid this 16-year-old to do it for you.

So AI can cut costs that way. There’s an AI product that will organize your emails and help you respond more quickly and efficiently. And those are very interesting as well and maybe helpful to save you some time to do things that matter more. There’s an AI product out there, and I want to put this out there, that is being marketed to Christian schools that this AI system will help your students and give them free classes on grammar and math and others common skill sets to tutor them in that. And so it’s not a person, it’s an AI, so it saves you a lot of money that this AI bot is helping them through their math and helping them through these common sets that they might have problems with. And that might be helpful. But then my question is, what is education? Is education the skillset that is neutral or is education a skillset that is not neutral and demands a human to walk them through even things that seem menial, but help them remember this is all about a biblical worldview and I think that’s where there’s going to be some conflict, even if something that sounds like a good idea, that might save you a lot of money.

Sam Rohrer:

And that’s interesting and that didn’t even get into what that little bit of a piece I read from the epic Times from a general secular perspective of the fact that when we don’t struggle to learn and then fail and then we got to go back and work again and use our brains for that, that’s what caused them to say, well, that’s not education, you’ll kill your brain. So there’s an aspect of that, let alone all that. So that being case, I’m going to put that to the side, got to get into this. In what way then does AI perhaps advance, I’m going to say a deceptive approach or a mimicry approach and competes maybe against the concept of image bearing as you talked about, knowledge, righteousness and holiness, the core pursuit requirements of Christian education.

Renton Rathbun:

When we think about what we’re using AI for, we tend to think of it as how we adults are using AI. What we forget is that AI is available on every single device, every smartphone that’s out there, and that’s in the hands of the kids every laptop. And anytime someone has a signal, they can reach it. And so we have to remember that knowledge is an activity that involves this idea of how I identify something, how I analyze, evaluate, and form new ideas. How do each of those skills, how do we exercise those skills without morality? Because that’s what AI is doing now, when we develop the skill of knowledge and we’re able to do those things, it’s from those ideas of evaluating and formulating and creating that we get the activity of creating templates and principles so that we can develop these ideas on how to decide what’s right and wrong.

Well, that’s where our righteousness comes from. And so if we don’t have those skill sets, how do we look into God’s word and really understand this? Because our kids are being told that things that we have known have been sin since the apostles now, well now we have better information. And so now we know that this really isn’t a sin and that’s not really a sin. And Paul was just a male chauvinist and he didn’t understand homosexuality and all these sort of different things. And now that we have better information, we can have a new way of deciding what’s right and wrong. It’s also how once we form that, then how we act, our holiness changes. We start believing there is a God we are worshiping that winks at sin because it’s not really sin and the God who’s not really holy. And what we’ve done is because of the breakdown of our knowledge, we’ve broken down our righteousness and our holiness is almost devoid of actual holiness. And now we are actually serving a God. That’s not the God of the Bible anymore.

Sam Rohrer:

And Renton, that’s just excellent ladies and gentlemen. That’s why anything that’s dealing with words, I’m going to say concepts, content, knowledge. Alright, as we’re talking here today is anything neutral? We’ll come back on that and then actually walk into then how can Christian schools and how can families of students in particular that’s in this AI world, what can we do to avoid the dangers? Well, as we go into our final segment, I hope that if you’ve joined us just partway through the program, you really need to go back and listen to the entire thing. And you can do that very easily on our website. Stand in the gap radio.com. All of our programs are in archive form. If you have not done so, please do. If you use a smartphone in either version, any whatever you have, you can go and download from your app store, our app, stand in the gap, it’s free.

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That secular article from Epic Times I mentioned where they were bearing down on just the process of thinking, pursuing with our brain, with our thinking it through and trying to come to a problem solving conclusion, not getting it right, going back and going through it again is a development of the mind. And they were pointing out that not only is this thing called AI and technology just turning upside down and it is our entire economy, it’s changing business, it’s changing media, it is everywhere, already embedded in every aspect of communication, media, entertainment, government. What we hear on the news is flavored by AI. And as you said, AI in its algorithms was designed by unbelievers. And as I shared some examples, that’s confirmed that that is true. Therefore it’s not even neutral. It is, I’m going to say there’s nothing neutral. It’s either reflective of God’s definition of righteousness and that which is right and good or it’s on the other side because there’s only two ways. So we’re really dealing with a technology and a human embedded algorithm that is not God honoring at its heart and therefore changes everything in my mind. But that being the case, what can Christian schools and administrators do to ensure that the aspect of Christian education you described of image bearing, what can they do to ensure that that aspect of Christian education is not unduly influenced or altered by AI?

Renton Rathbun:

They’re going to have to have a vision too long. We have had Christian schools that are run to stay open. Decisions are made based on need for money, values and getting kids through the door for a while. Biblical worldview was for many Christian institutions, including Christian colleges and universities where biblical worldview was a marketing ploy that seemed to work out for some but not for others. And now, boy, you’d be lucky to find anyone talking about biblical worldview on their websites anymore, let alone doing it in the classroom. And so I think this tidal wave of AI is going to force administrators in Christian schools, whether it be elementary, high school or colleges, force them to have a vision for biblical worldview because it’s going to cost them. And this is what I mean. We are at a point right now where AI will do the writing of your kids.

Parents may or may not be strict about how the computers are used in the house. They may or may not be paying attention. They may or may not know all the things that AI can do. They may not know that AI can not only copy the style of your child, but even leave a few mistakes to make it look like this is really their work. In fact, there’s a lot of people that are saying, well, now we have AI that will detect whether or not you got it from AI. Yes. And we already have AI programs that will ensure that those AI programs can’t detect whether they’re AI work. And so I say all that to say what the administrators need to do is rethink. If they have a vision for biblical worldview in their school, they need to rethink and revamp everything. We need more writing in the classroom, not less writing.

We need writing in every subject. Whether you are doing a math course, an English course, a history course, social studies, languages, whatever it is, kids need to start writing because writing is the only way that you know how they are thinking. Whether or not they’re able to identify, whether they’re able to really analyze what they’ve identified. If they’re able to evaluate and come to formulate different ideas that is done by their writing, it’s going to take a lot of time because you can’t trust them to go home and do the writing. So now writing has to happen in the classroom with a piece of paper and a pen. They’re going to have to write with their hands with the teacher watching and they’re going to have to share their writing with the class. And the teachers are going to have to grade that writing. That is going to be super intensive as it comes to time and energy spent.

Which means that these educators and these administrators have to change everything they’re doing. We have inundated our schools with extracurricular activities and sports and music and all those things are fine. But the question is now you’re going to have to start making choices as to whether you’re going to have all that stuff or leave room for kids to actually learn how to think. And that really is at the heart of the question, are you going to ignore this and just let this play out and stick to your comfortable way? You’ve already been doing it for so long? Or are you going to address this because you care about the minds and hearts of these kids and your school is going to be a school that insists on thinking and being able to analyze and assess good thinking work?

Sam Rohrer:

And ladies and gentlemen, we’re about to enter the program as far as what his families do. If you have children, apply the same principles that Dr. Rathbun just shared. Renton, I perceive here, if someone is not careful, they’re going to take your advice and go and ask AI to help them how to put into plan a system where they don’t get relied on and fooled by AI. Don’t do that. Ladies and gentlemen. Think, use biblical principles in order to come to that Renton. We’re at the end of the program. We’re done. I wish we had an entire additional hour to put this together and then go further, but we’re out of time. Thank you so much for all the work. This has been just superb. Ladies and gentlemen, Dr. Rathbun has his website, Renton rathbun.com, and you can find there his programs, the Renton Rathbun Show where he’s helping parents to walk through the challenges, the biblical world impacting their children, including some of the things we’re talking about today. God bless you all. We live in challenging days, but God’s word gives us all we need if we pursue the knowledge of God’s word and do it.