Recalibrating Christian Fundamentalism in America: Is Now the Time?

June 17, 2024

Host: Sam Rohrer

Guest: Renton Rathbun

Note: This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program originally aired on June 17, 2024. To listen to the podcast, click HERE.

Disclaimer:         While reasonable efforts have been made to provide an accurate transcription, the following is a representation of a mechanical transcription and as such, may not be a word for word transcript. Please listen to the audio version for any questions concerning this dialogue.

Sam Rohrer:       Hello and welcome to this Monday edition of Stand In the Gap Today and a full week of programming that’s all lined up here and some will change, but we’re going to try and go down a path that I think will address the most current issues facing our nation in the world. A roadmap for what we have at least laid out at this point tomorrow. Music admissions, Dr. Jamie Mitchell. We will have Josh Davis with him. Wednesday. Reggie Littlejohn, president of Sovereignty Coalition, will join me again if you were listening. She was with me in May right before she went to the World Health Organization meeting in Geneva and she’s going to be back with me actually giving us the very latest on the, I’m going to put this way, the evil and the lawless maneuverings of the global elite and the World Health Organization as they continue to press forward with the goal of usurping the independence of the world’s nations under the guise of health protection.

Sam Rohrer:       I said a lot there, but hopefully you got that on Thursday. Constitutional attorney, David New will join me again for our bimonthly emphasis on the Constitution and American history and the precise headline theme that we will cover then still under consideration. But join us on Thursday for that On Friday, Dr. Isaac Crockett and I will talk with Steven Lee from Sermon Audio. A service that I know has benefited no doubt many of you over the years. So please make it a point to listen every program, every day for this week as all of these will be relevant, biblically accurate in our analysis. And I pray helpful to all of you. Now before we move into today’s focus with Dr. Renton Rathbun, director of Biblical worldview at Bob Jones University on a very relevant topic, I’d like to extend my appreciation and thanks to all of you godly fathers and grandfathers listening to me right now for your faithfulness in leading your families in the fear of God.

Sam Rohrer:       Because if you are a godly father, a grandfather, you’ve done that. And I trust that you were honored and felt honored yesterday on Father’s Day and that you’ll pray and join with me and all of us on standing the gap in American pastors network and praying forefathers that they would first, like Joshua would choose to serve the Lord as for me and my family, and then to consistently lead their families in pursuing the will of God, God’s way according to God’s word. There’s frankly nothing more important that Godly men or men can do in any age, and particularly the one I think in which we live now. That being the case now with that introduction, let me introduce a theme for today as it’s a theme about a movement which was once very strong, very pervasive, very vibrant and used greatly of God in America. That movement, though I will say has been redefined.

Sam Rohrer:       It’s been hijacked, it’s been turned from one of essential agreement on the items necessary for biblical unity into a movement. Many or most professing Christians have been encouraged not to embrace, but to be shunned and feared from one of definition and demonstration based on the whole council of God’s word. I think this movement has become disparaged, rejected and reviled, but the question is why? And rather than rejected and reviled, is it time or past time for this movement to be revisited, reconsidered and recalibrated? What is that movement fundamentalism? The title I’ve chosen for today’s conversation with Dr. Renton Rathbun is recalibrating Christian Fundamentalism in America is now the time. And with that Renton Rathbun, thanks for being back with me.

Renton Rathbun:              Thanks for having me back.

Sam Rohrer:       Renton, depending on the age of the person listening to this program right now, their perceptions on this topic, fundamentalism the consideration of what would be the fundamentals of the Christian faith or the fundamentalist movement in America, no doubt would vary greatly. I know it does and it would. So let’s start at the beginning. Could you give some history of the fundamentalist movement in America by defining the term, how it got started and why it became a movement?

Renton Rathbun:              Absolutely. So I know that many of your listeners today might have lots of different feelings about the word fundamentalism, might have different understandings of the history of it and maybe even a lot of ideas about some of the personalities that we’re involved in the movement. And today what I want us to do is, and I know it’s difficult, but I want to try and divorce the spirit of the movement from the personalities within the movement. I really want to concentrate on the spirit of the movement because what I would like to put forward is that fundamentalism really started back in 3 25 ad with the Council of ea. When you look at all these different councils of the church, what you see is a heresy came out of the culture and then a council was brought together to say, okay, how do we stand on this issue?

Renton Rathbun:              How do we formalize what we stand for, clarify what we stand for and ground what we stand for in God’s word. And so for the council in Nicea, it was Arianism the idea that Christ was created and not God’s son eternally. And so they had to come together. There was a rise of a heresy and a coming together to formalize, clarify and ground a particular doctrine. So I believe fundamentalism, if we’re going to define it, this is how I want to define it. I believe fundamentalism ultimately is the endeavor to formalize, clarify and ground particular doctrines in scripture against heretical claims. We look at it that way. What we see in America is just after the Civil War, there began to become a great acceptance of Darwinism and higher criticism. This is the idea that there’s something that stands above the Bible to determine what parts are true and what parts are false.

Renton Rathbun:              And soon there were people everywhere, different pastors and congregations coming to believe heretical ideas about God’s word. For instance, that there was no real virgin birth, that the Bible isn’t really in errand, that we don’t really have a sin. Nature inherited from Adam, that the atonement wasn’t a penalty. And these different ideas grew out of the culture. And so a group of people met in Niagara Falls area is called the Niagara Bible Conferences, to try and determine the fundamentals. And the fundamentals they came up with was the inspiration of the Bible, the inerrancy of the Bible, the virgin birth of Christ, the belief that Christ’s death was a penalty for sin, the bodily resurrection of Christ and historical reality of the miracles. Now these fundamentals became the cornerstone of what we call fundamentalism. And we’ll talk more about that after the break.

Sam Rohrer:       Alright, Brenton, I wasn’t sure you were going to be able to get that all in there, but you did a tremendous job of listing it all out. So ladies and gentlemen, fundamentalism is all about the fundamentals of biblical faith. It’s what distinguishes a professing Christian from a possessing Christian. It is the heart of the church, it’s the heart of what Christ came to teach, it’s what is in the scripture. It is the heart of a biblical worldview. So we’re going to move now into the further aspect of it and talk in the next segment about the current conditions. Now will, if he’s just joining us today, Dr. Renton Rathbun is my guest. He’s the director of the Center for Biblical Worldview at Bob Jones University, regular speaker for BJU press and a whole lot more in which he’s involved. Our theme today that we’ve selected is this recalibrating Christian fundamentalism in America is now the time.

Sam Rohrer:       Last segment, we talked a little bit about Brenton actually presented the history in a concise form. We’re going to move now into, brings up the date with where we are. Preliminary statements. I just want to put in regard to movements. Human civilizations are replete with the rise and fall of movements. We know that most are manmade, some are led by the spirit of God. And I think of this even in New Testament times, think with me on this, such as the days of the apostles, the Jewish religious establishment of that day opposed Jesus Christ himself and they sought to destroy the efforts of the apostles and Acts chapter five is an example which recorded that Peter and John were called before the Sanhedrin, literally on trial for what? Preaching in the name of Jesus of all things. And it was then that a respected leader by the name of Gamal, a Pharisee himself and a mentor of the apostle Paul, he rose and with great care encouraged the Sanhedrin to exercise extreme caution.

Sam Rohrer:       He said, in the present case, I advise you leave these men alone. Let them go for their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail, but if it’s from God, you’ll not be able to stop these men and you will only find yourselves fighting against God. Now, in essence, Gamal said that God institutes efforts rising from divine commands. He didn’t say this, but he was actually saying it such as true Christianity and the church, which is what those apostles were talking about, along with God’s prophesied plan of redemption, which we know from scripture no man will stop because they’re of God and they’re driven by God. Yet if certain efforts be of man and reflect a man’s movement, just give it time because in time it’ll run out of speed and it will fail. That’s what Gamal said. So Renton, in the last segment, you gave a brief history, a great one of the beginning of what we might term the fundamentalist of movement or fundamentalism in America. But along the way things happened, occurrences arose that have challenged that movement, but we also know that challenges have arisen in regard to the very essence of what constitutes biblical Christianity. So here’s my question. Could you highlight what you would consider the greatest challenges or problems now facing Christian fundamentalism and distinguish the challenges to the fundamentalist movement of years ago as compared to the challenges I’m going to say of orthodox Christianity of today? Could you put those together?

Renton Rathbun:              Yes. The fundamentalist movement of the early twenties and thirties all came down to the fact that people wanted to redefine terms. So in the P-C-U-S-A, the Presbyterian Church of the United States of America, which today is absolutely liberal, it’s not even what I would recognize as an actual church. They started out conservative. They had the Westminster confession of faith and all these different standards that you had to go by. But what they did was they had people within the movement that were reinterpreting terms saying, yes, I believe in the inspiration of the Bible, of course, but to me what that means is, and then they would define it in a terrible way that the Holy Spirit was actually using myth to help people understand things and that of course they believe in the virgin birth. But of course to them virgin means just a young lady, not an actual virgin.

Renton Rathbun:              And so you had these people just reinterpreting terms, but staying within the movement. And of course the movement then became actually an apostate institution like the P-C-U-S-A did. And so what I see happening even today is that same thing happening within the Christian movement where we have a sexual revolution happening right now today we have a twofold effect going on. First we have a sexual revolution through the LGBT movement and then under the guise of being kind, loving, and welcoming, we have liberals within what we would consider conservative movements embracing the idea that affirming the sin of homosexuality or transgenderism or feminism might be okay at first or in steps or at levels for us to be loving. And so what I’ve really found is that what happened at the very beginning was we began to allow feminism in the church. This led to an acceptance of parts of homosexuality including same sex attraction, which then led to gender issues even within the church. And so the question is with these kind of challenges, who is going to stand up and say this is what orthodox Christianity has always been and what the Bible says and stand against these movements that are trying to push us towards this sexual revolution.

Sam Rohrer:       Alright, I think that’s good. I’m just going to let that down. Lemme go to the next question and further expand it. Could you provide now some examples you gave L-G-B-T-Q and the feminism that gives way to other things that happen in the sexual revolution, right? I think that’s right there. Provide some other examples of how, what I call the broad walk away from some of those that you identified, the unalterable tenets of biblical Christianity, define some of those in the first segment, how they have made their mark on the church generally. And then education, which is where you spend so much time education specifically

Renton Rathbun:              Today, there’s something that’s happening that I call the quiet quitting of orthodoxy because we have so much social media and so many different outlets, people in congregations, even pastors have so much information coming in that I think there are parts of orthodoxy that they can quit but just not tell anyone or just slowly bring everyone else with them. And what I’m speaking of specifically are the way that there has been a kind of quas IAC acceptance of a istic idea. Give me give you an example. There’s a book called Understanding Transgender Identities and it is edited by Paul Rhodes and James BB and they’re from Bethel University of very liberal place for theology. Anyway, they say this, the more one sees gender roles in their expression as divinely ordained, the more one is likely to see gender dysphoria as an unhealthy symptom of the fall. And less likely one is to allow for or encourage any sort of transitioning.

Renton Rathbun:              Now what they’re getting at is this, with the whole transgender issue, it comes down to how seriously you take gender roles themselves. Even the liberals understood this, and for a long time the church has been secretly battling the idea of gender roles even within the church where people are, more and more churches are becoming uncomfortable with one Timothy two that says women ought not to have authority over men in the church. You have the Southern Baptist still battling that out and it gives birth to people in conservative movements like Amy Bird, who was a very conservative woman in the Orthodox Presbyterian church who has now recently come out saying that she’s a victim of sexism and hatred over women in that denomination. And now she does not believe that Ephesians five says what we have historically believed. It says about husbands and wives and how God has arranged that the roles there and especially the roles of the church and what she believes about how the church should be run and how women ought to have authority over men in the church.

Renton Rathbun:              Sam Alberry is another example of a man. He is an Anglican priest, has been accepted by a lot of conservative people, but he believes that same sex attraction is not a sin, it’s just a condition he finds himself in and has to live with. And so you see these little movements towards anti orthodoxy. Now in other things he’s really good, but in this one thing he’s not. Well, what does that mean? That means there’s a piece of orthodoxy that we can let go of. And if history has taught us anything, it has taught us that the greatest threat to Christianity is this quiet quitting of particular orthodoxies that we are supposed to hold onto as Christians.

Sam Rohrer:       We don’t have enough time here, but I want you to deal with this when I come back in the next segment and that is this, why is there this walking away, falling away perhaps from the faith on one hand or quiet, quitting of orthodox tenets of true biblical faith? Why is that? And you’re talking about giving examples, all of those things, people would say, okay, I’ve heard of that or I didn’t hear of that, but I can understand it. Or they have seen things on their own. But in the end it comes back to why is that? Is it because people who believe the truth are afraid to deal with issues controversial with the culture? Did they never believe him to begin with or why is that? I want to ask you that question and then we want to go into the further aspect here, Renton of making the case, the proposal of how we move from this splintering we see right now to the unity of scripture and truth that God really lays out.

Sam Rohrer:       We’re back in just a moment, please and gentlemen. Well, from the very beginning at creation, we know then that sin came into the world. Every aspect of truth from God himself who is the author of truth, Jesus Christ himself who declared that he is the literal and physical embodiment of truth. And the Bible as God’s written presentation of truth has been questioned, it’s been attacked, it’s been maligned, it’s been undermined by Satan himself and his followers as committed enemies of the truth. And among true believers, disagreement should not be the mark on those issues. But it has over time. And as my guest today, Dr. Renton Rathbun, director of biblical worldview of Bob Jones University has made very clear back in the early part of the last century, there was a walking away from the truth as there has been at times throughout history since the church began.

Sam Rohrer:       And at such times there’s a convening of people who say, wait a minute, let’s get back on track effectively. And so out of that came the what we’d call fundamentalism, revisiting a fundamentalist movement in America. And that’s what we’re talking about today. Back at that point, back in the early days of the church, the apostle Paul himself declared in Ephesians 4 23 said The process of I like this because I think it’s applicable to this. He says, the renewing in the spirit of our minds, literally it’s every day by definition in the Greek that our minds be renewed. It literally means to be or to become reestablished in a new and often improved manner. And I’ve linked that into the word I’ve used here to recalibrating Christian fundamentalism as America is now the time. Here’s the definition of calibrate by personally chose that word to calibrate means to correlate the readings as relationship to an instrument, correlate the readings with those of a standard.

Sam Rohrer:       In order to check the instrument’s accuracy, it means to carefully assess, to set or adjust. And we’re talking about truth, the truth of God’s word. And so I just throw that out, you can give some comment, but I want to go back before I ask you about making the case for why we need to revisit this today. And you were talking in that last segment about the walking away. I was going to ask you this question, why has this walkaway or this quiet quitting of orthodoxy as you used it, I like that phrase. Why has that occurred?

Renton Rathbun:              It has occurred because our constant temptation in a fallen world with the old man still attached to us will always be that we will be ashamed of the gospel. Romans one, which is the chapter for apologists everywhere begins its context, especially as Paul talks about it in verse 16, for I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God to salvation. In one Corinthians, he talks about how he’s not a great speaker, he doesn’t have all the wisdom of the philosophers. He just speaks of Christ and him crucified, which is going to sound stupid to the Greeks and to the Jews. It’s going to be, it’s going to anger them. And he knows this and he warns of this over and over because deep down inside, we long to be acceptable before men. It is easy to follow Christ when you have a thousand people cheering for you. But as soon as you are disapproved of, seen as irrational, seen as one of those stupid people that can’t think well. And so you just take everything by faith and you are marginalized, suddenly it becomes very hard and you long to be the reasonable one. You long to be heard, you long to be at attractional. We want be smart, we want to be esteemed. And we long ultimately to be justified, restored, sanctified and glorified by anyone but God himself. We want the world to do that for us. And that’s our big temptation.

Sam Rohrer:       I think that’s great to me. I’m thinking fearing man more than fearing God, seeking approval in the immediate more than approval, well done, good and faithful servant in the future. That is great. Now lemme go here and we’ll get into this now, and that is this, you actually made a statement that I read. Have we not learned that the greatest threat to the Christian Church and Christian institutions is the, again, that phrase, the quiet quitting of orthodoxy for the reasons that you just cited. And while I sense that that question is prepped more rhetorical nature, I’d like for you to answer that question. Have modern Christian leaders not identified this threat? Obviously they haven’t. We know it otherwise it wouldn’t be seeing what we’re seeing, but what is required for them to do so?

Renton Rathbun:              Yeah, no one wants to be radical. No one wants to be looked upon as the irrational fringe of things. And right now, the loudest voices are those that are providing these pathways for congregants and even pastors to quit particular parts of orthodoxy. And so what we need is people or pastors and institutions to unify so that we can stand against, first of all, feminism, which is the gateway drug to acceptance of certain parts of homosexuality and even gender identity, ideology. And even as I’m saying that, I know that automatically sounds sexist, it sounds old fashioned, but that has been the main issue in many churches that have found itself already accepting pronouns and accepting transgender ideologies started with feminism first. But we must stand for something. We have to stand for God’s word as inspired, inert, infallible, and foundational. In other words, God’s word is first so that we can understand the rest of the world. It is not culturally flexible.

Sam Rohrer:       That is a great word, not culturally flexible. So let’s move to this question here then in regard to that is the time now for a recalibrating of Christian fundamentalism and obviously anybody listening to us right now would say, yeah, it’s pastime, but make the case for it. Is there a need for a new fundamentalism movement?

Renton Rathbun:              Absolutely there is. And it’s this, Satan ultimately wants to diminish God’s speech. In other words, God has given us his word, he has spoken to us. This is the foundation of our reality. If Satan can destroy that, diminish it, find holes in it, anything he can to get rid of it, that’s his goal. And he has found another way to do it. It’s through the sexual revolution that we find ourselves in today. Satan has raised up not only a worldwide sexual revolution, but he has found pathways into the church to accept at least some levels of sin that excludes other levels of sin, right? You have the new wave of people saying, well, same sex attraction isn’t a sin, but if you act on it, that’s a sin. And that makes us feel so safe and we still feel conservative when we say those things. And so that is one way that this has seeped into our church. And what I mean by this is otherwise orthodox people are being given compelling arguments to let go of at least some orthodoxy so that they sound rational and loving and kind with a false narrative that’s sticking to the literal word of God is somehow evil or somehow hateful somehow without taking in text or cultural context and all those kinds of things. And that’s why we need something to happen right now.

Sam Rohrer:       And when you say that, I know people are thinking and I know what it’s like no matter what you’re in, in the pulpit or in life or in office, when you say, this is what I believe because and I will not be deterred to it, you have drawn a line. Well, that drawing of the line most often, particularly in a hostile culture like now, will produce pushback and levels of hatred. Well, one way to avoid that is just don’t ever draw the line, just be a little fluid, as you say, culturally fluid. But that’s not what the Bible says to do. So anyway, not much time left here, but this idea, this revisiting the standard of scripture, discuss briefly how a biblical worldview and education of which you spend so much time cannot have any real meaning without a unity on the fundamentals.

Renton Rathbun:              Absolutely. Right now, Christian education is in great need of a new fundamentalism right now, they are screaming from the rooftops that they believe in a biblical worldview, which is wonderful. But what does that mean? Grand Canyon University claims they have a biblical worldview, but when you look closely, they don’t agree on hardly any of the fundamentals we would want them to agree to. And so what does biblical worldview even mean? And what it has to mean is a list of fundamentals that have to be true so that we might even be able to begin a biblical worldview to even begin biblical worldview. There has to be a standard of fundamentals. We are all agreeing upon about God’s word so that we can have God’s word worldview.

Sam Rohrer:       And that makes absolute logical and truthful sense. And ladies and gentlemen, stay with us Next segment. We’re going to wrap up the program by doing an application and I’m going to ask Dr. Renton rathbun website, worldview.bj.edu. You can find more information about him and things that has been written, but I’m going to ask him to now. All right, let’s identify these biblical fundamental tenets upon which if we don’t believe we’re not believers, but if we cannot agree upon them, we’re not doing what the Bible says. So what are these? And then we’re going to do just a bit of application to them. Well, as we go into the final segment here and make some application, which is what we try to do on all programs, we’ve raised a lot of issues today. Dr. Renton Rathbun has given a lot of background and trying to weave through biblical thinking, which is what’s under attack at the end of the day across the country, biblical thinking, redeemed thinking.

Sam Rohrer:       But as it applies to this matter of this movement, we’re referring to it as the fundamentalist movement or fundamentalism. We’ve covered that from the beginning. Once very pervasive, very strong, always very important, but falling into repute under attack, frankly, by many. Now we’re at the point again, as history cycles through where there is a, I’m going to say a majority of those who proclaim to know the truth, actually don’t, and they certainly do not hold to the fundamentals, the fundamental tenets of what constitutes true biblical Christianity. And we’re going to conclude by identifying there. Before I do that though, just a reminder for all of those who are listening, sometime ago we began to institute and put on our app and on the website and availability within about 24 hours for a full text of this entire program. So you can bring it up if you bring up on your app and stand in the gap, or you go to the website and you can actually read through and listen at the same time.

Sam Rohrer:       But I encourage you to do that because even already there are a number of things that have been mentioned in this program that I know you didn’t have a chance to write down. We can go back and read through it again and it’ll help in helping to understand and to review what you may have heard, perhaps sitting in the car or working in your kitchen or wherever you might be as you listen to this program. So encourage you to do that and then share it with a friend. Share the program with a friend. You could do no with nothing better, almost other than sharing the gospel. Share this them because it helps to understand how to live according to the gospel. Alright, Renton, in the course of today’s program, we’ve talked about the fundamentals. You’ve mentioned several been in conclusion and applications. I said, and we would do here, identify these biblical fundamental tenets, these foundational tenets upon which all true believers must agree or they’re not. A true believer.

Renton Rathbun:              At the heart of fundamentalism is a collaboration between like-minded people. And so in other words, what we ultimately need is a good group of theologians and Christian thinkers that can really develop a list that we could sign like the Declaration of Independence at the bottom. But these are the things that I believe need to be in there because fundamentals are always assumed until they’re attacked. It was assumed that Christ was never created until someone brought up that idea. And then so now because that’s being attacked, we have to make sure people are getting what we’re talking about. And so within the fundamental system, you’re always thinking about how culture or how Satan is rearing up new things to attack things that have until now been assumed. And so the things that I think we need to have in there for sure is scripture must be understood as inspired and inerrant and infallible and foundational inspired.

Renton Rathbun:              It is the word of God. The Holy Spirit spoke these things, and man, he uses men to bring that out as he willed it to be iner. There are no errors in scripture, infallible scripture is not capable of making any false statements. And number three, foundational, which means it is sufficient to be the foundational cause of every other thought, every other truth that’s in the world that in other words, God’s word is not something we add on Sundays or for religious purposes, but there are other things that are neutral. There’s no neutrality. Scripture is foundational. Number two, God. God must be identified as particularly triune in a world where we have made heroes out of atheists and people that do not believe in God the way we do. For instance, Jordan Peterson is not a Christian and Ben Shapiro, not a Christian. He does not believe Christ is God.

Renton Rathbun:              He does not believe in a triune God. We have got to start making these distinctions clear. Number three, the church must be understood in terms of Ephesians five and one, Timothy two. In other words, that how Paul has made a correlation between marriage, Christ and the church and marriage, we need to take that seriously even down to one Timothy two that gives us clear commands on how a church should run, and number four, sexuality, because that is what’s being attacked right now. We need to make statements and create categories for biblical manhood and biblical womanhood and be clear about that and make it part of the fundamentals.

Sam Rohrer:       All right, fundamentals. I like this. Always assumed until attacked. It’s good. Number one, scripture inspired, infallible, inherent foundational. Two, God identified as triune in all of the aspects of thou God is described in scripture. Three, church understood in terms of Ephesians five, if church and Christ, Christ and the church rather, marriage man, male and female, and then for human sexuality. Those are great ones. Now let’s just a brief bit of application. How do we apply them for the sake of focus? We could go much broadly, but just go right now to how a biblical worldview of which these are apart in education with these things in mind would benefit. How would it alter and benefit Christian education?

Renton Rathbun:              It would be a huge benefit to education because it would solidify what we mean by a biblical worldview. And right now that term is so generic that no one understands, but what we really mean by biblical worldview is the authority of scripture worldview. If we start calling it the authority of scripture worldview, I am sure there are a lot of ministries out there that would drop out of using that term because they don’t mean the authority of scripture worldview. When we help kids understand what it means to have a biblical worldview, we have to teach them discernment. In other words, the history teaches us that God uses the persecution of the church to realign the church. I mean, during peace, time and freedom, we begin to quarrel amongst ourselves and we start majoring on minor issues, and we start separating for reasons that we ought not separate from each other, but when God puts on the pressure and there’s persecution in the church, we very quickly realize who the enemy really is, and we begin to major on the major issues.

Renton Rathbun:              Now, the question is to the next generation, what are the major issues and what are the issues that although we disagree, good men can disagree on those things. If we don’t teach the next generation how to be discerning about what are the major issues that are non-negotiable fundamentals, and what are the issues that we can have disagreement about but not destroy each other over, then we can raise up a new generation of, if I dare say the word, neo fundamentalists, new fundamentalists that understand what the major issues are that we need to hold on to preserve not just Christianity as a tradition, but to defend our God like we are commanded to in one Corinthians, to defend the truth that God has entrusted to us. We have a responsibility as his children to do so.

Sam Rohrer:       Yes, we do. Sure do. Dr. Renton Rathbunn, director of the Center for Pacific Worldview, Bob gis University, thank you so much. You have a website there, ladies and gentlemen, worldview.bj.edu, and this entire program, again, on audio or in transcript form on our website or on our app. Thanks for being with us today. God bless you all.