Trump’s Election & The Christian Vote: What the Research Shows
Dec. 13, 2024
Host: Hon. Sam Rohrer
Co-host: Dr. Isaac Crockett
Guest: Dr. George Barna
Note: This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program aired on 12/13/24. To listen to the podcast, click HERE.
Disclaimer: While reasonable efforts have been made to provide an accurate transcription, the following is a representation of a mechanical transcription and as such, may not be a word for word transcript. Please listen to the audio version for any questions concerning the following dialogue.
Sam Rohrer :
Welcome to this Friday edition of Stand In the Gap Today, and it’s also our monthly culture and values program where we focus on matters of culture and values with our friend Dr. George Barna, who is now director of research at the Cultural Research Center at Arizona Christian University. Now for those listening to me who perhaps did not catch the programs of this week, I’ve spent some concentrated time on two headline news issues, and I would encourage you to go back and listen to the Wednesday and Monday program. But the first is the fall of Damascus as we’re recalling it there in Syria and the literal redrawing of the lines of the nations there. Really, it’s going to be involved in the power shift impacting of course Israel, but also the United States and the connection there we’ve dealt with between the proxy war, the war between Russia and the American and UK deep state.
That’s what’s really at stake there with NATO, which is taking place in Ukraine. The second is the highly disturbing presence of hundreds of sophisticated drones unidentified in origin and purpose and of various types, surveilling US military sites, critical infrastructure, surveilling and trailing US naval and Coast Guard ships and appearing over the homes of key federal agents and even the properties of President-elect Donald Trump. And while as of this time here on Friday, all the agencies of the federal government continued to claim ignorance of their knowledge as to the origination and purpose of these entities. They are strangely claiming to know at the same time what they aren’t, but they also claim in contradictory fashion to know of certainty that they represent no threat. Now, that’s an odd thing, isn’t it? And such are the distorted truth times in which we live. But I cite these two issues as they will only grow in impact and as we approach the January 20 inauguration date because I believe that they are connected Now, that being the case, but as the entirety of 2024 was dominated, as we know by anticipation of the November election, the election results of November, though now behind us do tell a story, and it’s this story that as a part of valid research can produce an analysis that’s accurate.
And it’s the focus of today’s program with Dr. George Barna and Dr. Isaac Crockett is with me. And we’re going to now engage that discussion. Now, the title I’ve chosen to frame our conversation is this Trump’s election and the Christian Vote, what the research shows. And with that, George, thank you so much for being with Isaac and me again. It’s always a pleasure to have you on board.
George Barna:
Well, thanks Sam, and it’s always great to be back with you. I appreciate the opportunity.
Sam Rohrer :
Absolutely. And it’s really good to have you back. We missed a month last month, November, and it was primarily, so our listeners know, I think we may have said something, but it was due to another surgery on your vocal chords and here on the radio. I mean, if we lose our voice, it’s really tough. And that’s for you. It’s a major issue. We prayed much for you here and you’re not back with us. And can you just share briefly the status of that surgery, and for our listener’s sake, how they can pray best for you now in that regard?
George Barna:
Oh yeah, thanks for that, Sam. At the beginning of November there, I flew back to Boston to have the surgery and they were able to remove the biggest growth off of my vocal chords. There was kind of an unexpected twist in that there were actually growths on both vocal chords and unfortunately those growths were right across from each other, so they couldn’t operate on both at the same time because they would not have healed. Well, I’ve had that done before, and what happens is both vocal cords when they’re healing, they adhere themselves to each other, and so you can’t make any sound after that. And then you need a whole series of additional surgeries to take the vocal cords apart again and to sew flaps over them so they can heal properly, et cetera. So I will have to go back for another one sometime in the first quarter next year, but I’m really grateful that I’ve got a great surgeon and he did a great job.
As you can hear, I’m speaking again, things seem to be healing pretty well, so I’m thankful to the Lord for that. And in terms of what to pray for, I just say, well, let’s pray for God’s will. That’s always the best thing. I’m sure we know that Paul had some kind of affliction. He prayed that it would go away. It didn’t. It was part of the Lord’s will that he would have to work through that, and it was beneficial to him somehow. We don’t know what the affliction was, how it was beneficial, but I want to be in that. I want to be on Paul’s team, so I want to be on Jesus’ team ultimately. But that’s the whole point here. So yeah, I mean, let’s pray that God’s will gets done if it’s part of his will that the disease that I have could be eliminated right now, surgeons don’t know how to do that, but the Lord could do it in the snap of a finger. So that would be my prayer that we just have the Lord’s will done and that I would accept it, whatever it is, even if it’s not what I want. I know that the Lord’s will is what’s best for my life, and that’s what I’m pursuing.
Isaac Crockett:
Amen. Well, we’ve been praying for you at our little church here. Folks from New York and Pennsylvania have been praying for you. In fact, we had a lady in our church who lost her ability to speak during the same time you were having your surgery. She had fallen and hit her head. And so the Lord has brought her speech back and we’ve been praying that he would bring your throat back. So that hearing you clearly today is exciting and as you say, we’ll continue to pray for God’s will to be done in this research that you’ve done. I’m going to ask you the trick question here. Can you boil it down this research, this post-election about the Trump victory? Can you boil this down to one or two big takeaways that we can talk about later?
George Barna:
Sure. One of those is that the election was determined by Christians. Now, some people may say, what? I never heard that. And that’s true. You’ll never hear that because the typical commentators don’t address that. They don’t think about the role of faith in the election. But when you have the eyes to see, you can recognize this, and we can talk about the data as the program goes on if you want, but Christians determine the outcome of the election. Self-identified Christians, Christians of all types cumulatively gave Mr. Trump a 17 million vote cushion, and that was more than Mrs. Harris was able to overcome. So we can talk about details of that. The other big thing I guess I take away from it, not statistically, but spiritually as the Lord has given us a reprieve. And so we’ve got another four years to try to figure out how can we come back to him. We are likely to have the levels of freedom that would allow us to do that, and we might not have had that if the election had gone the other way. But I would say that we need to rebuild the nation’s moral and spiritual foundations and we can use politics and government as a tool toward doing that, but it’s going to take much more than any kind of government policies or government leadership to get that done. But it’s not going to happen if we don’t have that as a focus in our minds and hearts.
Sam Rohrer :
Okay, and with that, George, that is a right challenge, and ladies and gentlemen, we’ve talked much and for a long time about the necessity of us as a nation, as individually turning to God, returning to God. That is where it’s, and we’ll get further into the details of that as well as the election results in this research that we’re going to talk about. Stay with us, Isaac Crockett and I are together here today with our special guest again, Dr. George Barna theme Trump’s election and the Christian vote, what the research shows. Well, George, on October 7th, so just a couple months ago now of this year, you released your 2024 pre-election report, number one, that’s what it’s called, and it can be found on the CRC website. And then you and Isaac discussed this for ladies and gentlemen, we want to go back and listen to that.
It was done on October 11 of this year. You can find it. But George, in the post-election report now that you did after the election, so you did the pre, I referred to October seven, you released it, and then you did the post which we’re talking about Now. In that post report, you made several references to predictions made in the report regarding, for instance, at that point, you’re looking ahead to who might vote the basis on which perhaps they might cast their vote and that kind of thing. So here’s my first question to you, and I’m going to ask you to go back and forth and it’s going to tax your memory, and I hope you can handle this. I know you can. But comparing what the pre-election research indicated and what you thought at that point, and then what the post-election report confirmed, what was the most significant, I would put this way first confirmation pre to post that you might cite.
George Barna:
Well, Sam, I guess I would say it was that turnout was expected to be substantially lower than it was in the prior presidential election in 2020. And the post-election research shows that in fact was the case back in 2020 among people who were of voting age, 62% turned out, but this year just 55% turned out. So that’s a seven percentage point drop. That’s really big. That’s very significant. And as we broke that down in the research, we found a lot of things, but among the most important contributors to that decline were things like the fact that people’s enthusiasm about the presidential election was lower, even though it was inescapable in terms of media coverage this year, people weren’t paying as much attention. They didn’t like the candidates as much. There wasn’t that big a range of issues that were drawing people in. There were really only a handful of issues that made a difference, most of them revolving around the economy.
What we found is that people spent less time paying attention to media coverage about the election, less time talking to other people about the election and who was running. We also found that there was a lower level of trust in the electoral system, and that’s partly because of what happened in 2020, whether they were perceptions or realities didn’t matter. The outgrowth of that was that people said, yeah, you know what? There’s going to be monkeying around with the system. I don’t know if my vote’s going to make a difference. I don’t know if it’s even going to get counted, et cetera. So that was an issue. I would say also that part of that lack of enthusiasm, that decline and enthusiasm had to do with media portrayals of both candidates. Usually what you have, at least in the last decade and a half, is the media coming out behind a particular candidate.
Usually the Democrat candidate in this particular case, even the media were troubled by the Democrat candidate. Obviously they were troubled by the Republican candidate, so they were portraying both candidates as losers. Well, that didn’t do much to increase people’s excitement about participating in this election cycle. And the consequence was that when we look at faith groups, segments of the population related to their faith, what they believe, how they practice, those kinds of things, there were only two Christian faith groups that saw an increase in turnout, and those were Catholics where turnout went from 67% up to 70, which is pretty commendable, pretty high. And then integrated disciples, people who have a biblical worldview and their numbers were even higher. So those two groups went up, everybody else went down. And if you look at it in a particular way, what that means is that if we look at all the people in America who consider themselves and called themselves Christians, 77 million of them decided they chose not to vote in this election. And almost half of that number were individuals who theologically speaking will be considered to be born. Again Christians, what they believe about their salvation and how eternity works would put them in that born again category only God really knows. But our best estimates, you got 36 million theologically identified, born again Christians who decided not to show up to vote.
Isaac Crockett:
That’s such a significant number, and I think that your information, the research you did for your pre-election, I saw it circulating all over Christian and secular sources citing that even, I think you shared it in an email, but even I saw a Trump Town hall where somebody asked Trump and they said, the cultural research center at Arizona Christian University, George Barna, they saw this research. So people were talking about that. And it’s interesting then to, after the election, see those numbers, such significant numbers in the 36 million, but in the same light, George, those things were confirmed. You and I talked about this two weeks ago, and now that was confirmed, but at the same time, you saw some things that were maybe unexpected from the pre-election to the post-election. You called them in your research surprise. And so what was it that you found was maybe a surprise or the most significant findings that you would say kind of surprised you from this post-election research?
George Barna:
It’s interesting, Isaac. When you do this extensive body of research on an election, there’s not just one thing, one surprise that emerges. If you do good research, usually you’re surprised by a bunch of things. And that happened here, certainly. I mean, one big surprise to me is that we can confidently say it was Christians who decided this election. And again, analysts and commentators tend to ignore that. They’re not talking about it. The exit polls, which is what most of the media relies upon, doesn’t even measure this accurately or adequately. So they don’t have any real data to work with other than what we’ve put out. And I’m labeled an evangelical pollster, so they write me off right away. But the reality is that’s what happened. And so even though turnout was down among all the Christians in the country, turnout was down even more among the non-Christians.
And of course, they’re a smaller group to start with. So that’s really what undermined the Democrat candidate in this particular election. So that was a surprise, the significance of the Christian vote. Second thing I would say that really kind of shocked me was that sage cons, the spiritually active governance, engaged conservative Christians, the ones that maybe some people think of this group as evangelicals, but they’re not. This is a group that’s always politically engaged because that’s part of their theology. That order to make a difference, you have to be engaged in terms of politics as well as every other dimension of life. That’s their mindset. So you’ve got this group who had a huge turnout, 99%, you’re not going to get much better than that. There’s no other group in the country that came close to that level of turnout, and it mirrors the level of turnout that they had four years ago, 99% back then too.
And we would say, yeah, that’s great. But two things surprised us. One or surprised me, one is that the proportion of sage cons in the population at large decreased again. So now they’re down to about 5% or so. But the more significant thing to me was that the Trump vote went from 99% among the sage cons up the 99% who turned out back in 2020 down to 90% this time, didn’t see that coming. And then the other thing that surprised me and sad to me actually, is the strength of socialism in the minds and hearts of the American people. And so we had 42% voting age adults back in 2020 who said that they would prefer socialism, the capitalism, well, guess what? They got a four year dose of it. And in the middle of that, what we found is that interest in socialism dropped from that 42% down to 22%, 20%.
But here we are right after the election, the day after the election, we do our survey. What we found is that it rose again to 32% who said they were interested in socialism more than they are in capitalism. They prefer that as our economic and governmental system. And so you look at, wow, well, who’s saying this? We found that it was in the church world. Highest among those who go to traditionally black churches, 45% said that they would prefer socialism to capitalism. Naturally, you would find that among atheists above the national proportion, 40% said they prefer people of non-Christian faith, 39%, this is important. Parents of children under the age of 13, 39% saying that they would prefer socialism to capitalism. So on the one hand, we look at the election, we say, okay, Mr. Trump’s in office, good. We’re going to get back to a capitalist perspective. And he definitely has that. But there’s this lurking underlying interest to even desire among many people in America who say, yeah, I think I prefer socialism. We’ve done other extensive research on this, found out that people don’t really know what they’re saying when you actually confront them with, okay, this is what socialism does, this is what capitalism does, which do you prefer? We found that people prefer the socialist perspective consistently only about 2% of the time. So my take on that is socialism has a good PR agent.
Sam Rohrer :
Wow. That’s probably because sin has a very appealing flavor, doesn’t it, George? It’s amazing. Anyways, ladies and gentlemen, what you just heard, you’re going to need to go back and pick up this program again. I would encourage you, because you can also find transcript of it on the app or on the website, because there’s a lot of information being given here, and I know it’s just probably not possible to write it. I don’t remember it exactly. So you can do that. I would encourage you to do that. When we come back, we’re going to pursue a little bit further here, and looking now at the makeup of these people, even those who call themselves Christians. Well, for those who are just joining us, we’re midway now through the program, and this is our monthly focus with our special guest, Dr. George Barna, professor and director of research, actually at Cultural Research Center, Arizona Christian University website there.
Well, George, I’ve got one down here. It’s not a George barna.com, but there’s another one too, which I’ll ask you to give at the university site. But we do this once a month, ladies and gentlemen, and generally we’ll break the most current research, which is generally regularly done throughout the year, and very, very important program within our schedule, George, for the entire 2024 this entire year here. Now, as we look back, you’ve conducted, we’re talking right now about just pre-election and the post-election, but for the rest of the year, you’ve done extensive research by which we’ve talked here on multiple programs, and you call it American Worldview Inventory 2024. And that can be found again on the site, American Christian university.edu site. You can find that, ladies and gentlemen. But what I’d like to do in this point here is try and correlate if we can connect some dots between the research that you did, which was trying to determine levels of biblical worldview.
You’ve done a lot of research on self-identified Christians, born again Christians, and what all that means. And even in the last segment, you referred to Sage Khans, as an example, a breakout of Christians. You used the term self-identified Christians, you’ve referred to born again Christians. They’re not all the same. So within that context, just to help clarify from some of our listeners and myself as well, to start with, in your findings and your analysis here on the post-election, to what extent did worldview, measurable worldview and specifically biblical worldview drive those who voted and how they voted? Because you said overall turnout was lower for Christians, wherever they sat on that biblical worldview scale, but it was higher than the other side, the non-Christians, their turnout was even lower. So I’m saying, well, to what extent did those with a biblical worldview actually make a difference? So I’m giving you kind of a wide open question there. Connect some dots there, could you?
George Barna:
I’ll do my best as I look at it. I’m thrilled by the way that you made that distinction between the influence of worldview as opposed to biblical worldview, because it’s two different answers. The influence of worldview is enormous. Why? Because every decision that every person makes is based on their worldview. Everybody has a worldview. Everybody constantly relies on their worldview for all of the decisions that they’re making every day. So yeah, even when it comes to voting, thinking about the candidates, the issues, how involved they’re going to be, how much time they’re going to spend researching, what’s going on in the election, how important the results are going to be in their life, all of these things come back to worldview. So yes, Sam worldview is critical toward understanding any election that takes place. Biblical worldview, completely different answer. Biblical worldview didn’t have much impact at all.
Why? Because only 4% of adults in America have a biblical worldview. How many people in America intentionally voted biblically? That is they were thinking about the issues and the candidates and the process and the outcomes and the possibilities through a biblical lens. Very, very, very few, way less than one out of 10. And so even people who go to church regularly, most of them don’t have a biblical worldview. Most Americans who read the Bible every week, most of them don’t have a biblical worldview. So when we say, gosh, how much did the biblical worldview affect this election? Sadly, not nearly as much as it should have and could have. Now, how do we see that in practical terms? We see it in terms of the issues that people said were most important to them. One example out of many, but one that may be a lot of people might be interested in who listen to your program would be abortion.
And what do we find there? That abortion wasn’t as big an issue for Christians as it was for non-Christians. It was a deciding issue for non-Christians. For most Christians, whether we’re talking about self-identified Christians, theologically identified, born again Christians, whether we’re talking about theologically identified evangelicals, people who attend evangelical churches, that’s different than theologically identified evangelicals. We’ve got more than two dozen different faith segments that we regularly track. And no matter what group we looked at other than sage cons and people with a biblical worldview, a group that we call integrated disciples, other than those two groups, abortion was not an issue that most of them were driven by. They were more concerned about other issues. So then we look at also influence what was influencing people to make the decisions that they were making. Now, if you’ve got a biblical worldview, your influence is that worldview.
And what influences your worldview is God’s word. So it’s a biblical perspective on what the issues are, why they’re important, how to think about them, what to do about them, how to vote in relation to them. That’s how that works. But of course, with so few people in America, even just one out of 10, less than one out of 10 people who call themselves Christians, having a biblical worldview, that’s not going to make that big of a difference. I would say that as we looked at our research, we found that Christian churches did very little, surprisingly little shockingly, little disturbingly little to get people involved in the election. In the pre-election research, we reported that, you know what if pastors would just encourage people to vote, that would increase the vote by roughly 5 million people. Well, between our pre and post-election research, we didn’t see much change in terms of churches getting involved. The churches that were already involved maybe we’re a little bit more intense about it, but churches who previously had decided, nah, it’s not for me, most of them did not change their minds. It was a huge missed opportunity
Isaac Crockett:
Hoping that your information would change churches. And so that’s sad to hear that it didn’t change the minds of pastors to do more of that. And I found it really interesting, and Sam and I have talked about this a lot with each other, and that’s this issue of things like abortion that wasn’t so high. And you were saying that for those who are non-Christians, it was a big issue, a deciding issue for many people. Maybe you can clarify some of that. Is that because the non-Christian, their issue was they wanted to make sure abortion was protected, for example? But it seemed like in your research among Christians, and this again, just in talking with Christians is what I heard brought up a lot. They kept talking about inflation, the economy, the inflation, immigration inflation was like, I think 38% immigration, 34%, whereas abortion was down close to 20% crime and law and order 14%. So based on that, do you think looking at the outcomes of those, that essentially Christians were more concerned about the economy and personal safety than they were issues of morality and justice, for example?
George Barna:
Yeah, absolutely, Isaac, and the way that I think about it is that Christians were more interested in voting self-interest than faith interest. And so what we have are the parcel of issues that were most important to most Christians were issues of money and security as opposed to moral issues. And we tested this with people. We said, well, how big were things like not only abortion but poverty, the moral decline in America, what’s happening with Israel, support for older Americans, national unity, religious freedom, discrimination, the content of public school education, all of these things. And those were down toward the bottom of the list of what was influential in terms of how people chose to vote way up at the top, what are you going to do with my wallet and what are you going to do to secure my life? What about my quality of life?
And so the way that I’ve been talking about it, I guess most recently is Christians and even churches are not viewing elections as an issue of stewardship. And because of that, they’re not motivated to participate. And when they do participate, they’re participating on the basis of what’s in it for me as opposed to how can I use this situation and opportunity as a means of advancing the kingdom of God as a way of representing Christ in our world today as one more avenue for me to take biblical principles and translate them into how me and my neighbors are living today. That’s what an election should be. Using that system, that process, to bring God back to the forefront to make sure that the way that we are filtering the information and looking at the opportunities has to do with, but how do we glorify God? How do we advance his kingdom? We are all going to benefit from that. Yes, but that’s not what’s driving it. What drives it is God interest.
Sam Rohrer :
And George, so many more questions for you ladies and gentlemen. Stay with us. We’ll come back. We’ll try to wrap this up a little bit. I’m sure what you’ve heard has raised questions as well. One of those, George, I’m going to ask you is, alright, of those that had a biblical worldview, did they evidence that they were more concerned for the right things, morality and justice and doing the things that God said or were they no different than the others? That’s an interesting question, but come back and we’ll conclude the program. Alright, George, there’s so much more that we’d like to cover and that good research like you do, which is so seldom done by people, has within it a tremendous amount of information. The wisdom as we know is the application of that so we can make it actionable. And this thank you for the job that you do and you’ve done for such a long, long time.
But in that last segment I said, I was going to ask you this and I’m going to ask you this question. There are multiple categories of Christians. You’ve talked about born again and self-identified Christians, and then there are the remnant, the biblical world of view, Christians, what you say. There’s only 4%. I mean, so there’s different categories. When you were talking in that last segment, those who are in that broader category, self-identified were making selfish decisions basically, as you were saying, voting for self-interest, not for higher God ordered priorities of morality and that kind of thing. So we got an issue there. We’ve been talking about that for years. But here was the question I want to ask you. I don’t know if you were able to track it this finally or not, but for that 4%, if you were of those who were really truly biblical world people, were you able to measure that they actually did vote biblically the way that we would want them to vote biblically? Or did they jump off the reservation too?
George Barna:
Well, a little bit of both to be honest. We did find that people with a biblical worldview, for instance, were more likely to say that their vote was influenced by which candidate would do a better job of handling the moral decline in America, or what would each candidate do about Israel supporting Israel, what would they do related to the federal debt? What would they do concerning the application of law and order? So those kinds of issues, yes, did rise up a bit and we found that people with a biblical worldview had a different perspective. What was equally interesting, maybe even more interesting was that people with a biblical worldview had different factors on which they judged the candidates. So they were looking at things like the character of the candidates, they were looking at their moral positions, their track record related to moral issues, those kinds of things.
So yes, there was some more of that. Now, honestly though, when I said it’s a little bit of both, it wasn’t as big of a difference as I would’ve hoped for. We did find that bigger difference among sage cons. Why? Because sage cons tend to have a biblical worldview, but they also have that mindset that they’ve got to be very active in politics, not because they like it, not because what they think is the best use of their time, but because they understand that as an agent of transformation for the kingdom of God, they have to have influence in whatever sectors of society. They can have that influence. They have to exploit those opportunities as they arise. And an election and voting are examples of how you exploit that opportunity.
Sam Rohrer :
Okay. Well, I mean what you’re saying is that I think all those are listening saying, see, the reason I ask that was because accurate and truthful research as you do requires a lot of these correlations in order to really be actionable. And that’s all I just wanted to pull out there. But you indicate that again, that the process of making choices, even as we would look at and come from it from a biblical perspective or however are still going to vary a little bit from person to person because of things probably you can’t even measure. Lemme go to the next question here. Over the time period where you’ve been researching, you have noted, we’ve talked about it, that there’s been an overall trend in their culture and specifically within self-identified Christians, a trend, a downward trend away from a biblical worldview. I’m just asking the trend question right now. If you look at it right now, is the trend still away from a biblical worldview or perhaps have we bottomed out
George Barna:
When you’re at 4%, there’s not a whole lot of bottom left. So if we’re not there now, we’re awfully close to it. We have to be, statistically speaking, if I had to gauge what’s going to happen in the worldview inventory that we do in the next couple of years, I would say it might even drop down to two or 3%. Because when we look at the younger generations in America, who of course are becoming a larger part of the population mix, while those people who are older and are more likely to have a biblical worldview are dying off, the younger people are less likely to have a biblical worldview. So I don’t think we’ve hit bottom. Yeah.
Isaac Crockett:
Alright. Now, another question that I see the last five years, I feel like our country has become the most divided we’ve seen in maybe the last 50, even 150 years. What advice would you have for true believers, remnant Christians who have a biblical worldview or seeking to have a biblical worldview? How do we live during this time and how do we lead others to that worldview that we have, that biblical worldview
George Barna:
Sam, this is our time. We’re here for this moment in history. We’re not here by accident right now. America needs people with a biblical worldview to lead. And the best way to lead is by example. Now there’s got to be a lot behind that example. It’s got to be consistent. But what a great time to be praying for America to be praying for people, to be praying with people, to be serving, to be worshiping God overtly, consistently, transparently, to be loving other people. That’s what a person with a biblical worldview does. That’s what they manifest in their life because having a biblical worldview means that you’re able to think like Jesus. And so because you do what you believe, if you think like Jesus, you can act like Jesus. And that’s what a person with a biblical worldview ought to be doing. So lead by example, and remember that transformation happens one person at a time.
Don’t get all caught up in, oh gosh, how do I start a movement? What can I do to spark a revolution? What you can do is find one person and disciple them into the kingdom. Then find another person and disciple them into the kingdom. I mean, just consistently be discipling people to be more like Jesus Christ. That’s how the remnant behaves in a dark moment of history like we have in America right now. And as a leader, remember that leadership always requires clear and compelling vision. And so ask yourself, yeah, what’s that vision that God’s given to me personally uniquely that I need to be beholden to, that I need to be committed to? Vision is converted to through deep commitment. So know that vision, be committed to it. And keep in mind at all times that you’re not responsible for the results. You’re responsible to be consistently obedient to God. So know that vision he gave you. Use the gifts of leadership that he’s given you to disciple people into his presence and into his kingdom, into his service, and let him worry about the results. You just be obedient and you’re going to be the person that God put here for this moment in time.
We’re playing the long game here. It’s a marathon, not a sprint. So know where are you going and go.
Sam Rohrer :
And with that, George, thank you so much for being with us today. Ladies and gentlemen. Again, get this program again online. Look at the transcript, read down through it again, the website, Arizona christian.edu. You will find research results. You can go there and pick up the entire report. George, God bless you. We’re going to continue to pray for you and your professional work, your personal life, your voice improvement, all of that. Ladies and gentlemen, let’s lift him up in prayer and let’s just pray for all of us who know the truth individually. If we do what we’re called to do, we will make a difference.
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