Suffering in Silence: Understanding Men and Miscarriage

Suffering in Silence: Understanding Men and Miscarriage

Jan. 14, 2025

Host: Dr. Jamie Mitchell

Guest: Dave Deets

Note: This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program aired on 1/14/25. To listen to the podcast, click HERE.

Disclaimer: While reasonable efforts have been made to provide an accurate transcription, the following is a representation of a mechanical transcription and as such, may not be a word for word transcript. Please listen to the audio version for any questions concerning the following dialogue.

Jamie Mitchell:

Good day friends, and welcome to Stand In the Gap Today. I’m Jamie Mitchell, director of church culture at the American Pastors Network. And today’s program will be both informative but also soul tugging. I’m not sure if you realized it, but up to a million pregnancies in the United States end in miscarriage every year. For many parents, there are no answers of why it is more common than most couples even realize. As many as half pregnancies that end in miscarriage and stillbirth have no explanation, the stigma and shame keep people. Many people who experience miscarriage from discussing it, most miscarriages happen in the first trimester of pregnancy. While chromosomal abates are the most common reason for pregnancy loss, little is known about the reasons or contributing factors. It’s difficult to study miscarriage because of how hard it is to connect with patients in the immediate aftermath of a loss, many times a couple will conceive and not even realize it, then miscarry and not even know it.

And just for information’s sake, miscarriage happens during the first 20 weeks of pregnancy and after that, it is labeled a stillbirth. And when miscarriages take place, the focus of attention is on the grieving mother. The physical and emotional loss is overwhelming. The great anticipation of giving birth and nurturing a child in a moment is eliminated and hope becomes sorrow. I will say that both empathy and openness about miscarriage has changed in the last 30 years. When I started in ministry, I was shocked how many couples suffered a loss like this, and the only way I knew it was because I was the pastor. Couples were unlikely to share with others, and equally so, friends and family who knew the situation, were not sure how to respond and care for them. That has changed, but it is still awkward and strained at times. In most cases, the focus of concern when miscarriage happens is the mother primarily because of the physical burden they bear.

Yet what about the man, the husband, the disappointed father? How does he cope? Does he have similar pain? And why in most cases are they ignored? Today we want to consider this aspect and recognize the man’s travail is equally important. Our program today is entitled, suffering and Silence, understanding Men and Miscarriage. And to help us, we’re honored to have Dr. Dave Deets. Dave is Vice President of the Institute of Biblical Leadership, but more relevantly today. He’s the author of the book When Men Miscarried, finding Hope, amidst Style and Pain. In the book, Dave Chronicles his journey and he and his wife’s four miscarriages and also discovering the pain he was dealing with but did not fully recognize. Dave Deets, welcome to Stand in the Gap Today.

Dave Deets:

Well, thank you Jamie. So glad to be here and great to join you today.

Jamie Mitchell:

Well, Dave, this is an unusual program. I know I was thinking to myself, there’s probably not many programs that deal with this, but I know you have been on different radio programs. In our second segment, I want you to unpack your whole story, but to kind of get us started today, I want you to share what you’ve learned about miscarriage, but more importantly and especially the effect on men. And here’s what I want you to discuss. Why is it that we do not consider the male aspect or the male factor when miscarriage happens? And is the pain real?

Dave Deets:

Yeah, that’s an excellent question, and I think as we’ve journeyed through this process, for my wife and I, this has been probably a 20 some year process, even though the bulk of our miscarriages happened 18 years ago and before. As we’ve kind of walked through this journey and as we’ve processed through this journey, that question has come up a lot is what about the man? And what about his thoughts, his feelings, why isn’t he considered? And what we’ve learned, I mean, I think through this process, what we learned and even and I served as a pastor for a number of years, is that there was actually very little resources consolation, help, encouragement, whatever for women in the area of miscarriage. When we went through our miscarriages, my wife actually tried to find resources for herself just to help her. And there were a couple of things that she came across, but she had a really difficult time to be able to find something that would help her.

And then I think what we’ve realized even since then is that there is little, if anything, that was out there for the men. And I don’t think it was a devious thing or a harmful intentional thing. I just think, like you said earlier in the introduction, the whole topic of miscarriage is often not talked about because we don’t understand it, we don’t want to deal with it, we don’t know how to deal with it. And so just the entire topic is kind of off limits to talk about. And so for the women, that’s not a lot for the men, there’s not a lot. And I think it’s a number of reasons most likely men are not as inclined to be engaged in the process of the pregnancy. I know for me, I was thrilled that Kimberly was pregnant. I was thrilled that we were going to be parents, she was going to have a baby.

But honestly, I think for the guy, he does not involve himself in the process as much as the woman. Obviously, it’s her body, it’s her life that is changing, and she’s feeling all the effects and she’s feeling all the things. And for the guy, we’re just kind of living our life. Honestly, for us, not a lot has changed other than trying to engage and help her as her body is changing and she goes through the hormones, changes and different things. And so I think for the man, we disassociate ourselves from the actual pregnancy process. It’s almost like we look at it and say, well, my wife is pregnant. My wife is having a baby. Or we might say we’re having a baby, but so much is just kind of put off from the man that’s put onto the wife and justifiably. But I think the flat side of that reality then is that men are overlooked.

Men are, there’s really not much consideration for what they’re going through. And to be quite honest, most men are not really interested in saying, Hey, I want to talk about my emotions. I want to talk about my fears. I want to talk about all these different things. And so given that they kind of will back off as well. And so it’s kind of a mutual thing. It’s kind of the natural tendency is to focus on the women because she’s pregnant, that’s something that’s happening with her. And then the men naturally kind of repel away from that. And so those two dynamics, I think really push us away from helping and encouraging and edifying the men. And so it’s not that anybody that people don’t care, they don’t even think to care about the men. And quite honestly, the men are not typically clamoring to have the attention and to have somebody care for them. And so I think that’s part of the challenge, that’s part of the difficulty that takes place in this process.

Jamie Mitchell:

Dave, just self-disclosure, Kris and I, we had two miscarriages, and after the second one, the doctor said, well, I’m merely not concerned until the third or the fourth one. So even the heightened concern, my guess is that if you’re listening today, either you have had personal experience in miscarriage or somebody. And if you’re a believer, this is an opportunity for you to minister both to the woman and also the men. And that’s what we’re here to do to help you Today. When we return, Dave is going to share he and his wife’s Kimberly’s story of miscarriage and what he learned about ministering to couples in this way. Return with us in just a few moments. Well welcome back to a special and I believe a really important stand in the gap today. Our guest is Dave Deets, the author of When Men Have Miscarriages, finding Hope Amidst Silent Pain. Dave, I want you to share about your first pregnancy, your first miscarriage, and the story that really sets the tone for your book and how we can learn from this. Tell our audience your story.

Dave Deets:

Yeah, thank you. I think as I look back, obviously it’s been a number of years now, but in the moment, and maybe there’s somebody listening today who is a young married couple and maybe the guys will relate to this. I think the first time that Kimberly told me that she was pregnant, it was probably a very surreal moment. I mean that the reality is there and that that’s all a possibility, but I just remember being very, it was just very surreal when she told me. And so she was excited. She was thrilled, kind of like what every woman has been looking forward to. And I was probably just flooded with all of the, oh my goodness, I’m going to be a father. What does that mean? How am I supposed to be responsible? All of those things are flooding into my mind. And so I think for me, I was probably, I wasn’t excited about being pregnant, but I just wasn’t ready for it all yet.

And I think she was obviously processing through it and ready for it. And she actually was going to the doctor and she was taking care of everything that she was supposed to. And I remember one day I was at work and I received a phone call or a text, or probably not even a text, probably got paged back then that she needed me to call her. And so I called and I was a little concerned. I knew she had a doctor’s appointment that day, but I didn’t know why she would’ve been calling me at work. And so I took the phone call and as soon as she answered, it was just hysterics on the other end. She was crying and she was talking very rapidly, and basically all she got out was she said, they say, the baby is dead and I need you. And so man, that really sent my world into a whole shock of what’s happening, what’s going on.

And so I let my boss know, I said, Hey, I need to go to the hospital or I need to go to the doctor’s office to be with my wife. And so I took off and my head was swirling, and I just, man, you’re trying to process so many things. Anytime you get a phone call like that. And I remember I called my mom. My mom was a nurse, and she and our family was a very calming, especially in medical situations. And so I called my mom and I said, Hey, I said, I’m on the way to the doctor’s office to meet up with Kimberly. They said that she maybe has lost the baby. And so my mom just kind of walked me through, gave me some good advice, and just helped me to process some of what I was about ready to step into.

And so made it to the doctor’s office, went into the room with Kimberly and the nurse that was there with her, she said, Hey, Mr. Deets, we hate to inform you this, but your baby is dead. And she said, we’re just going to take Kimberly next door. And she said, we’ll, just remove the baby and then everything will be fine. And I told her, I told the nurse, I said, we would prefer that we not do that, that we would just let the body naturally take care of it. In my mind, and even in talking with my mom in the process, my mind’s thought was, it’s possible that that baby may not be dead. It’s possible that they may not have been able to find a heartbeat, but that we did not want to do anything that proactively removed that. We wanted to be certain that our baby was in fact dead, and then that the body would naturally miscarry.

And so the doctor and the nurses respected our decision. They were very gracious about that. They respected our decision. And so we went home and nothing was different. It was like this weird kind of crisis moment, and then you just kind of go back to normal. And it really was like that for the next couple of weeks. We did everything as normal, and your brain is trying to play tricks on you. Kimberly was having no side effects, no issues, no problems, no difficulties. And so a week goes by and nothing’s changed. Nothing’s happened. The second week is going by, I’m going to work. She’s going to work. Everything’s normal. And so in the back of your head, you have this moment that occurred a week and a half, two weeks ago, and you’re trying to process that and put that into its rightful place. At the same time, you’re trying to think, well, maybe we did make the right decision.

Maybe the baby is fine, and then we’re going to go for a checkup and everything’s going to be okay. And it was a Friday evening, about two weeks after the original appointment, and we went out to dinner and we were sitting at dinner, and Kimberly mentioned to me, she said, I think I need to go to the hospital. She said, I feel something going on. I feel cramping and I feel just a lot of different things. And I think probably in that moment, we both knew what was happening. And so took her to the hospital and it was a Friday evening, took her to a woman’s hospital in Greenville, South Carolina where we were living. And the doctors, the nurse that checked us in, she said, well, she said, I’m sorry to tell you this, but she said, because you just ate dinner. We can’t do a procedure on her for several hours.

And in my mind, I’m thinking, well, okay, I don’t know if I really buy all that, but sure, okay. And so she said, we’re going to put you in a room and we’re just going to wait there and wait for everything to happen, and then we’ll come check on you. And so about an hour into the process, Kimberly really began to cramp and to hemorrhage. And so I remember I went out, it was a quiet women’s hospital on a Friday night. It was very quiet. There was hardly anybody there. And so I went out into the hallway to try to find the nurse. And so I found the nurse and I said, Hey. I said, I think Kimberly needs some help. I think something’s transpiring, something’s happening. And so she said, oh, okay. She said, I’ll be right there. And I came back into the room and Kimberly was on the table, and this is going to be very graphic, but she’s hemorrhaging blood and tissue and all.

I mean, it was just all right there on the table and she’s crying and she’s in pain. And man, that was, I can’t describe. I can still see it. I can’t describe the shock that I had and experienced in that moment of walking back into that room and just literally watching my wife have her body expel our baby and the nurse. So as I’m kind of in that moment trying to process, trying to just figure out what I’m supposed to be doing, I don’t even know what to do. I don’t know how to help. I walk in and the nurse was shortly behind me, and my wife is now a nurse. My mom was a nurse. I have the utmost love and respect for nurses and doctors, but the nurse was right behind me, and she walked in and she goes, oh, yep, she’s just having a miscarriage.

And it was so matter of fact, it was so in some sense, weirdly enough, it was calming. But in another sense, it made me realize like, oh, okay, it’s another night at the hospital. It’s just a miscarriage. That’s all this is. And in that moment, and I’m sure this nurse would be mortified to even know how I kind of processed all of her statement, but in that moment, I think for me, I thought, okay, Deets, this is not a problem. Just buck up. You’re going to be fine. The nurse is not worried and you shouldn’t be worried, and this is not a problem, and you just need to kind of be okay with it. And so I think in that very moment, I’m not a super emotional guy. I’m not a guy who’s going to say, Hey, I’d like to talk about my feelings a little bit.

That’s not me at all. And so in that moment, I think being confronted with watching and physically seeing Kimberly hemorrhaging blood and tissue in our baby, and then to hear the nurse say, oh, she’s just having a miscarriage. To me, it was the trigger point that said, DEET just buck up. Nobody wants to hear you complaining. This isn’t a problem. You’re going to be fine. Everything’s going to be fine. And nobody wants to hear what you’re thinking. And that was an unintended consequence. I’m confident that that nurse would never have wanted to communicate anything at all like that. But for me, that was our first miscarriage, first of four miscarriages. And for me, that really just locked me down to say, okay, this is just life and wow, I’ve witnessed some crazy stuff I just saw, but I’m going to compartmentalize it. I’m going to put it in the back of my head and I’m not going to worry about it.

This is not a problem at all. So that really was kind of the launching point for me in the totality of this process to just say, okay, whatever’s going to happen is going to happen, and whatever comes is going to come, and it’s just a fact of life and we don’t worry about it. We don’t deal with it, and it’s not a problem at all for us to go through this. And so for me, that was the challenge that I had to overcome and I had to work through. And I’m sure as we unfold the story through this broadcast and through others other means, that was the beginning of the journey that enabled me to deal with some of the challenges, some of the things that I had to work through in this particular process.

Jamie Mitchell:

And part of it, Dave, is too, as husbands as in that role, we’re trying to be strong for our wives and we’re trying to not show forth that we’re afraid or that we are concerned or we’re nervous to try to give to our wives the confidence and comfort that they need, but it’s real to us. And we all of a sudden start pushing this stuff down, friends, miscarriages lost, and when there is loss, there is grief. And when there is grief, there needs to be mourning. When we return out of the mouth of a bait comes an open door for healing, as Dave beats continue to tell his story and help men understand how to handle miscarriage. Well, thanks for sticking with us. And if you’re like me, the first time you heard Dave’s story, you locked into it, you’re listening. And Dave, thank you so much for sharing.

And I think hearing the first time somebody goes through a miscarriage and the pain associated is so important, but today we’re trying to gain insights on how men handle it. And we heard from Dave’s testimony there is this kind of pushing down or denial or this remaining strong for your wife, and there seems to be a lack of grieving, a lack of mourning. And Dave, as you mentioned, you’ve gone through four miscarriages. And so I want to encourage people to get your book and to read the entire account and all the things that you went through and all the things that you learned. But I want to pick up the story, and I specifically want you to move forward a little bit. And there is one story in particular, a part of this story, and that is an encounter that you have with your son, Andrew some years later, and how God used that to help you process through pick up the story for us, would you?

Dave Deets:

Sure. Well, we, yeah, we had four miscarriages total. The story I told in the last segment would’ve been our first one. Our fourth miscarriage was actually with our son, Andrew. He was a twin. And we had gone through the pregnancy. Kimberly of course was high risk, and so we had had multiple appointments, and about six months in the doctor suspected that something may be wrong. And sure enough, I mean, Kimberly wound up miscarrying, one of the twins, obviously the one that survived, we named Andrew. And so it was a lot of fascinating things. One of it was vanishing twin where her body, that being that far along in the pregnancy actually just absorbed the baby. And so it was not something that we had, this was our fourth one. I mean, I hate to say this, but it had just kind of become, okay, we’ve been through this, we’ve walked this.

It was difficult, but we kind of knew how to get through it, so to speak. And so it was something that we had never really talked to Andrew about and dealt with. And one day I was getting ready for church. Andrew was probably two or three years old, and Caleb, our oldest, shared a room. And I heard from the hallway, I heard Andrew in this loud voice saying, what? I was a twin. And in my mind I thought, should we have had this conversation with Andrew? Should we have told him? Should we have informed him? He seemed so young, it just didn’t seem like the right thing to do. But Caleb being the good brother, he had decided that he was going to inform Andrew of the reality that he was in fact a twin and that his twin had died. And so that really began Andrew on this journey that really caused him to want to discover and understand and just go through this process.

Andrew can be a very emotional child. He always was as a young kid. So I mean, in fact, we used to joke that in the vanishing twin component, Andrew absorbed the other personality. He really had much personality for more than one person. And so Andrew, we really began to process that over the next year or two or so, and to where he wanted to know, okay, what was the gender of the baby? And we’re like, we had no idea. We don’t know. And he is like, well, it was a girl. I’m like, okay. And in my mind, I’m thinking, why are we having these conversations? Andrew clearly did not get the memo that in the deets family, we don’t talk about this stuff. And he obviously hadn’t lived through the first miscarriage. And so I thought to myself, well, how do I keep him from talking about it?

I don’t want him to talk about it. I’m really actually kind of annoyed by him talking about it. But for him, this was so real and so part of his life, and so part of him that he needed to discuss it, he needed to engage with it. And so as we kind of walked through that journey with him, he said, well, dad, it was a girl. I had a sister. I’m like, okay. And then a little bit later on, he said, well, he said, her name is Abby. And I’m like, are you kidding me? Why are we naming her? I don’t know why we assigned a gender. I don’t know why we’re assigned a name, but for Andrew, this was so huge. And we moved to Grand Rapids, Michigan area, and there’s a ministry there called the Omega House where they have the Garden of Hope, which is a memorial in one of the cemeteries in Grand Rapids that is for women who are post-abortive.

In other words, they’ve had an abortion, and now they’re seeking help. They’re seeking grieving process, they’re seeking counseling. And part of the process that they go through is they actually give a name. They assign a name to their child and an gender if they didn’t know it. And then this memorial is where basically they etched the first names of that baby. Well, when we moved to Michigan, I was lead pastor there, and Kimberly began involved with the ministry and the lady that ran the ministry attended our church and just great friends of ours. And so Kimberly began to volunteer at the ministry and just help out. Our church was heavily involved. Well, Andrew would go with Kimberly, and he became very enamored with this whole ministry. In fact, he came at one point to the lady that ran it, and he told her his story, told her about his sister Abby, who had been miscarried.

And this was so very real for him. And so through the course of time, he asked the lady, he asked Julie, he said, I want to put my sister’s name on this memorial. And so in this interesting kind of way, Andrew was going through his own grieving process, much like the post abortive women went through. And for him, this was not just a grieving process, but it was a way to honor his sister. And at one point he had told me, he said, dad, I want to live my life on my sister’s behalf. This was a very real thing for him. And so that’s all kind of going on. I’m not paying much attention. I’m aware of it a little bit. But anyway, Kimberly came home, she’s like, Hey, this is what Andrew asked Julie, and we’re going to put Abby’s name on this memorial.

And I’m like, okay, whatever. He can do his thing. I’ll do my thing. My thing is I’m not going to talk about it. His thing is he’s got to go through this grieving process, whatever he needs to do, he can figure that out. And so they did. They put the name on the memorial and Andrew went down and saw it, loved it, and Kimberly came and she told me, she’s like, Dave, you really need to go look at it. You need to go see it. And there was a long time that I refused, but I felt convicted. I felt like, okay, I need to go on this journey with my son. So I’m conflicted as an individual. I don’t want to deal with it, and yet I’m convicted as a father. I need to deal with it because my son is going through this. And so I told Kimberly one day, I said, Hey, I am going to be home late.

And I said, I got something to do. And so I went down to the memorial. It’s in downtown Grand Rapids at the cemetery, and I just stood there for a very, very long time looking at this memorial Monument stone with the name Abby Deets written on it. And there was a lot of anger in that moment because everybody else only put their first name. And Andrew had requested that it be Abby Deets. And it was frustrating and angering to me because now it was like the whole world knew that somebody associated to me had had a problem or had had an issue or had had this trial. And so that really began the process for me to actually begin to talk about it, to actually begin to think about it, to actually begin to process it. And so over the course of time, Andrew and I have had to navigate that to the point where I am truly thankful Now, I was not then, but truly thankful now for his willingness to really, in some sense, shepherd his dad through this process. Not because he was intentionally trying to do it, but because that’s just the natural process that he was going through as we navigated that together.

Jamie Mitchell:

Dave, I’ve studied a lot about grief and mourning, and men obviously grieve differently than women, but even in this situation, as you’ve described, both what happened to you during the first miscarriage, how you initially responded, what was expected of you, what wasn’t expected of you, and then for God and his kindness to take you to this place and use your son to open that door. I guess in some respects, because we got about a minute left, I got, in some respects, you really did finally get to grieve the losses that you and your wife had experienced.

Dave Deets:

Yeah, that’s right. And it took, there was probably five or six years between the first miscarriage and the fourth miscarriage, and then actually the journey with Andrew was probably another eight or nine or 10 years. And so as I look over that time, probably a 15 year process and that I was able to finally get to the point where I would’ve said at the beginning like, Hey, we just don’t talk about it. We don’t think about it. We just act like it didn’t happen, and we’ll all be okay. And honestly, I would’ve been okay with that. I could have compartmentalized that to the point where I could have been okay with it. But what I didn’t realize was the pain and the hurt and the sorrow that I experienced, that I was really good at shoving down, actually through God’s gracious providence, through Andrew, was able to then be able to deal with the process of miscarriage and deal with our grief and eventually leading to writing this book, which it was not written as a way for me to be able to deal with it. It was actually meant for me to be able to say, how can I help other people? But even through that totality of the process, God allowing me to be able to deal with this and process through this. And so that was part of his goodness.

Jamie Mitchell:

And we’re going to talk more about how to help people in our final segment. When Dave Returns, I want to talk about how do we help men? How do we help people through miscarriage? I think it is more prevalent in churches than we will ever, ever know. Join with us as we have our final segment here at Stand In the Gap today. Well, welcome back to Stand in the Gap Today. I just want to remind you that all of our programs are archived on the Stand in the Gap website and also our app. Get that on your phone. That way, wherever you are, you can have us with you. I want to encourage you to send today’s program link to a friend or better send it to your pastor, because I think many times what we speak here on Stand in the Gap today is a tremendous resource. I also want to give Dave a book, a little shout out. Dave, as we finish up, I want you to tell people how they can connect with you and how to get your book.

Dave Deets:

Sure they can. The best way to connect with me is they can shoot me an email. It’s Dave d, so just my first name, Dave, and then my first letter of my last name D. So Dave d@iiblministry.org. And they can shoot me a note. I’d be happy to engage with them. And then if they want to get the book, it’s not available on Amazon, and they can just search when men have miscarriages. That should pop up the book. Just Search when Men Have Miscarriages on Amazon. And it’s available there in print form and in Kindle form. And if they have any questions or maybe they want to get several copies of the book, there’s some discount ways that we can do that as well if they wanted to reach out to me for that as well.

Jamie Mitchell:

Well, Dave, there’s so much we could discuss, but I want to conclude this way. I want you to address how to minister to those that have been impacted by miscarriage, both as somebody who’s gone through a number of miscarriages, but also as a pastor, and obviously having thought about this, what are maybe four or five insights that you believe every Christian needs to equip themselves to be able to provide some level of care to a suffering couple who face a miscarriage?

Dave Deets:

Yeah, that’s a great question. And the subtitle of the book is Finding Hope Amidst Silent Pain. And I think whenever we face a situation, whether personally or we’re walking with somebody through a journey like this, you want to give them hope. Because the trials, the tragedies, the situations of life, especially in light of something like miscarriage, the silent suffering, oftentimes it feels like there is no hope. In fact, I would probably argue that a lot of men don’t even begin to engage. They don’t even begin the process of engaging through the grieving process because they don’t even know what hope lies out there for them. And so it’s just easier to not even begin. And so I think as we journeyed through this process, I found a lot of comfort in the Book of Colossians and a lot of comfort from what God reminds us of there in his word.

And that’s the hope that we find in Christ alone. There is help that can happen with counseling. There’s help that can happen with friendship. There’s help that can happen with a number of different things, but as a believer, we are striving to find our hope in Christ and our hope in Christ alone. And so I think there’s a couple different things from the Book of Colossians that are good reminders for us. First of all is life is found in Christ alone. I think as somebody who’s gone through miscarriage and others that maybe are listening, man, it’s really easy to second guess and think about, well, why did I miscarry? It must’ve been something I did. Must’ve been something that happened, especially for the women. They think, oh, I shouldn’t have eaten this, or I shouldn’t have gone and worked out, or I shouldn’t have driven or whatever.

I mean, there’s a number of things that they can argue in their head that somehow they caused this miscarriage. And one of the things that we have to be reminded of is, first of all, life is found in Christ alone, meaning he is the giver and the sustainer of life. And if you miscarried, that is part of God’s providence and his sovereign hand in all of that. And so you can rest in the fact that life is found in Christ alone. And then a second thought or second encouragement is that your hope is in Christ alone. In other words, our hope is not found in anything else in this world. Our hope is only found in Jesus Christ through salvation obviously, and on his death and resurrection. But our hope for making it and moving through life is found in Christ alone. And then we can rejoice in Christ alone.

There’s a lot within a miscarriage that is difficult to rejoice about. I mean, I could think through our whole journey and realize, I don’t know, always know what there was to rejoice about, but we can rejoice in Christ alone and we can rejoice as Paul talks about there rejoicing in our suffering and rejoicing in our trials because it’s God that is at work and God that is accomplishing his work in our life and in our heart. And then we can have this confident faith that our encouragement is in Christ alone through our faith and trust in him that yes, it’s difficult and my heart goes out to the people who are listening or who have been affected by miscarriage for the very reality that there is difficulties that they’ve come through. But we can be encouraged in Christ alone and we can be encouraged through His word, and we can be encouraged through Him and the Holy Spirit’s work.

And then I would say our identity is in Christ alone. We live in a world that is really trying to enslave us to a number of different things that defines us. And we often think that our worth or identity is found in status or material possessions or popularity or whatever it may be. And the reality is that our identity is found in Christ alone. He is the one that gives us that identity. And so you may go through a miscarriage or you may know somebody that goes through a miscarriage and they’re really struggling with that identity, and they’re really struggling with this whole concepts. But you need to embrace the fact that your identity is in Christ alone and that he is working in these difficult times to bring you to where he wants to bring you. And then finally, your focus needs to remain on Christ alone through all of this process.

If you’re going through a miscarriage, you’ve been through miscarriage, maybe you’re a guy listening to this and you’re like, I’ve never told anybody this, but my wife had a miscarriage. We’ve had a miscarriage. I’ve never talked about it. I’ve never dealt with it. But the reality is that we look at this and say, you know what? I am going to stay focused on Christ, and I’m going to trust him to walk me through this process and walk me through this journey. And so I think those are some things to remind us of and some things that are helpful for us because as you said at the very beginning, Jamie, this a, it’s a silent suffering issue. And so many people, I can’t tell you how many people just even mentioning, Hey, I wrote a book on miscarriage. It’s like people can come out of the woodwork and say, I’ve never said this to anybody, but we had a miscarriage and I’ve never talked about it.

I’m amazed at the, obviously statistics remind us that if this high number of pregnancies and in miscarriage, then it stands to reason that there’s a lot of men who have suffered through miscarriage. But the bulk of men, the majority of men don’t even acknowledge that they’ve been through it, let alone talk about it, let alone be able to process it and grieve through it and deal with it. And so our hope and our prayer with this book and with this project was that we could start the conversation and that God’s grace would be sufficient for each of us to deal with the things that we need to deal with. And so that’s been our goal through this whole time. Can we get the conversation started so that men especially can get the help that they need, that they can be the husbands that they need to be to their wives, that they can be the fathers they need to be to their children as they navigate their way through this entire process?

Jamie Mitchell:

Well, Dave Deets, I hate the clock, especially today. Thank you so much for helping us understand miscarriage and especially how to minister to men. Ladies, gentlemen, thank you again for giving us another hour that brings us to the end of standard the Gap today. We love the opportunity to serve you. Our greatest desire is to live a life based on a biblical worldview and live with courage until tomorrow, God bless you, and have a wonderful day in the Lord.