In Defense of Life and Liberty: A Christian Legal Perspective

In Defense of Life and Liberty: A Christian Legal Perspective

Jan. 17, 2025

Host: Dr. Isaac Crockett

Guest: Shaheryar Gill

Note: This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program aired on 1/17/25. To listen to the podcast, click HERE.

Disclaimer: While reasonable efforts have been made to provide an accurate transcription, the following is a representation of a mechanical transcription and as such, may not be a word for word transcript. Please listen to the audio version for any questions concerning the following dialogue.

Isaac Crockett:

Well, hello, I’m Pastor Isaac Crockett and at the end of this busy and highly important week of news, I think that you’re going to enjoy today’s program. In fact, I think if you’re listening right now to us on the radio or something, you may want to call some of your friends that sometimes listen and let them know to go ahead and tune in. If this is something that you’re listening to after the fact, even though some of the stuff we’re talking about, it’s kind of changing by the minute. We’re going to try to talk about the heart of the issues here. And so I think you may want to send them a link to listen to this program. It’s the kind of thing you may even want to listen to this program again. And the two guests that I have today are guests that I have had a lot of you tell me how much you’ve enjoyed and benefited from the programs they’ve been on in the past and from the work that they’re doing.

And so I’m talking to two attorneys. So you have a pastor and two lawyers, and I’m tempted to throw in the lawyer jokes right now except that my own grandfather is also, he was a lawyer and I have a cousin who’s a lawyer, so I better be careful what I do. And I’m really thankful to have these guys on with me as two Christian human rights attorneys today from the American Center of Law and Justice to gentlemen that you all have if you’re listened to us regularly, have met before. That’s attorney Ben Ney and attorney Shaheryar Gill. Ben, thanks so much. I know you are just getting out of court just moments ago, but you’ve made time to be on with us. Thanks for being here. And Shaheryar, thank you so much for being on. I know you and I have gotten to know each other well, especially with international travels and working with persecuted Christians. Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule as well as a law teacher and an attorney to be on this program.

Shaheryar Gill:

Thank you for having me.

Isaac Crockett:

Well, I’ll try to go ahead and start here with Vince Ney. For someone listening who maybe isn’t as familiar with the ACL J, and I think most of our listeners probably are, but some people maybe are listening or maybe some know something about it. I know some people maybe recognize Jay Sekulow or they recognize some cases, but I know that over the years I keep learning more and more about what A CLJ does. Could you maybe tell us a little bit about the A CLJ and also just your own personal life and your experience as a Christian attorney and how the Lord has opened doors for you?

Ben Sisney:

Absolutely. So I’ll just start with the American Center for Law and Justice. It’s an organization law firm here. I’m up here in our Washington DC office just across the street from the Supreme Court and we have a pretty diverse, as you’re getting to and underscoring the point of the two guests you have on here today, a pretty wide scope and I tend to focus more on our domestic work and cases and traditional lawsuits on our litigation team and also interacting with the government affairs space here given our location and such. So basically our work tends to focus on, I would say, pro-life representation and defense, again in sort of a lawsuit setting as needed, ranging to policy and advancing pro-life values to protect women and unborn children and families from the abortion industry and to religious liberties and freedom to representing someone that’s dealing with an HOA or a county over.

They’re getting harassed about a Bible study, something as innocuous as that to things that might range up to get national headlines on policy issues. And for instance, with the March for Life coming up soon, I’ll just as a reminder in a sample, we represented a couple groups of students who were kicked out of the Smithsonian in the National Archives two years ago on the day of the March for Life, just because they wore pro-life hats and shirts that, and with the new March for Life coming up soon, this is something that we’re watching vigilantly for and if any of your audience has any issues with if they’re here in DC for that, anybody’s given them a hard time, I sure hope they’ll call us. So kind of a wide range there. Religious liberties, we do a lot of pro-Israel work as you know. I’ll let Shaheryar you speak to more of that and really just trying to be there to be a defense for people.

We tell our clients all the time, they graciously thank us for our work and we’re like, Hey, you’re the one at the tip of the spear. We’re just here to help. You’re the one that’s getting harassed. We’re just the lawyers, but that’s what we’re here. We’re all here. We’re called to be here. This is why I went to law school and to dovetail into the other part of your question, I mean this is why I went to law school. This is why I went to Regent University in Virginia Beach because the A CLJ had an office there and I thought that would be a good opportunity and that’s why I wanted to be a lawyer and God’s worked it out and provided providentially time and time again. I tell people, and I’m kind of sharing my personal testimony, I’ve seen God’s provision almost as really essentially as tangibly as seeing manna fall from heaven to the ground. I mean, it’s incredible what God has done and how he provides and directs and everything. So that’s a little bit of the background there.

We really looking forward to the upcoming administration is opportunities to right the ship. There’s a lot of work to be done and I think we’ll probably get to some of that today on the call, but we are a 5 0 1 C3 and when we represent folks, we represent them free of charge pro bono, we’re able to do that because of our supporters. So they allow us to do that and that’s a very special thing. It’s one of the reasons I love being here because I love getting to fight battles for people going through these kinds of things and not having to send them a bill when we’re done. I love that.

Isaac Crockett:

What a blessing that is. Shaheryar, when Ben introduced to me to you, it opened a whole new part of A CLJ that I wasn’t as familiar with international and you guys fighting against antisemitism, but also fighting for persecuted Christians all across the world. Could you maybe tell us a little bit about your role and the scope of A CLJ internationally?

Shaheryar Gill:

Yes, Isaac, as Ben mentioned, it’s really God opening the door for us to be able to serve his church and that’s why I went to law school as well to speak for the people who can’t speak for themselves to help the oppressed, to work for the persecuted and the A CLJ has provided me the opportunity to really do just that. So at the ACL J, we have a whole department of international litigation and international law work. It involves a lot of work at the United Nations for people who are persecuted. We file petitions, we file reports throughout the year. We file dozens and dozens of reports and petitions at the United Nations with the Human Rights Council. So we have an office in Pakistan and you and I both have been there. You have seen the work that the ACLJ’s affiliate in Pakistan does working for the persecuted church people. We represent people in blasphemy cases in cases of murder, rape, assault where Christians are targeted because of their faith. So there’s that one aspect of our A CJ’s international work. The other aspect is obviously working from here through our international affiliate, the European Center for Law and Justice that has a consultative status with the United Nations and through the ECLJ, which is located in Strasburg, France. We file all the UN petitions that we file with different branches of the United Nations.

Isaac Crockett:

So, so much going on with the A CLJ and ECLJ at international. We’re going to take a quick break to hear from our partners and we’ll come back and talk with Ben Sisney, Shaheryar Gill about what’s going on. We’ll start with Washington DC and some of the changes there. We’ll, welcome back to the program. I’m Pastor Isaac Crockett and I’m talking with two friends that many of you who are regular listeners will recognize friends from the A CLJ attorney, Ben Sisney, and attorney Shaheryar. And one of the things that I have learned about the A CLJ and have come to really appreciate is the depth and the dedication that they take. And many people know something about them or they’ve heard of Jay Sekulow or seen an interview with him, but Ben and  Shaheryar and others who are working side by side with Jay and Jordan and others, it really goes deep.

And I’ve been amazed talking with their different attorneys at how well they know these different cases going to states and to local courts and other groups where they’re representing these people. It’s not just there outside of their office where there are stones throw from the Supreme Court that they’re at doing battle so to speak, but they’re all over on the ground, boots on the ground and then talking with Shaar and even hopefully this year we’ll get to do some follow up with Shaar when he’s in Geneva, Switzerland for United Nations things or at the Hague or ICC court. So then all over the world, all over persecuted nations, helping and raising money for persecuted Christians and raising money as Ben was talking about, they represent folks that are friends of our program that have been represented by the aclj, being able to do that for them for free through the money that they raised.

Just some amazing things that aclj.org you can find some prayer lists and just lots of helpful articles. Some of them written by Ben or Shaheryar were co-authored by them, but a lot more I could say. But I want to get back to Ben asking you some things about what’s going on in DC and maybe just for a little background knowledge for some of our listeners, you’ve been in DC for quite a while and understanding Trump and his administration, you saw that first close hand knowledge of it, and so now we’re looking at Trump 2.0 as some are calling it, but he’s coming back. This is this unusual situation where he became president, not a politician becomes president, then we have the Biden administration and now we have a Trump administration. Again, really, really want to pick your brain on this, but right now we have hearings going on Capitol Hill at the Senate about the cabinet members who will be directing the Trump administration in so many points, and one of them, Pam Bondi, I really wanted to talk to you. I haven’t gotten to talk to you much about this, but I know you have some close relationships with that and with the Trump team. So just love to hear what you have to say about that whole process that’s going on. Ben.

Ben Sisney:

Absolutely. First, just to set the stage, this is one of the coldest winters I can recall in my time here in dc, but what a time to be alive. What a time to be here that in preparation for this historic inauguration and the government changing hands and just a historic epic time. But to your point, and particularly with as the general Pam Bondi, the former attorney General of Florida, we worked with her closely and spent a lot of time with her in representing President Trump in the first impeachment trial in the Senate just a few years ago. It’s amazing how fast time goes by and her character, her skill, her knowledge. I mean, I could just go on and on and I don’t want to sound like I’m just flattery. She’s an incredible pick. She’s going to do an incredible job and the Department of Justice is going to be in good hands and after just the way things have been going over there for the past several years, this is such a welcome opportunity.

Her hearing yesterday, if you had a chance to watch it or read some headlines about it, she just nailed it. I mean, just uniformly, I think most of the resistance has even folded on her. And I think generally speaking, she’s on a track to get confirmed. And of course, as you know, the president nominates a cabinet position and then the constitution sets a process where the United States Senate has an advise and consent role, and there’s a lot of debate and fund political science that goes on about how powerful the Senate’s role is versus the incoming president and the political dynamics and everything. It’s fascinating. This goes way back to the very beginning of our constitutional republic. And so I think she’s well on her way to getting confirmed. There’s a handful of additional cabinet nominees that are, I don’t want to say cruising through these things because they’re complex and tedious and there’s a lot of political theater, believe it or not, that happens.

But there are a number of picks that President Trump has named very exciting and they’re doing well. And I think at the end of the day when Pam Bonde gets confirmed and it sort of becomes official is a great day for America, it’s a great day for law and order. And I don’t mean to speak just in sort of political use, these sort of phrases, but I mean genuinely this is a great day for law and order restoration of counting on and trusting our nation’s chief law enforcement officer. I mean, that’s a big deal. It should be a big deal. And I’m just so thrilled that she is where she is. And again, knowing her and having spent time around her, the quality of person that she is, I’m thrilled. So we’ll see. We’re going to keep an eye on that. And then some of these other hearings, there are some that get less media attention for various reasons, but they’re all important and we’ll keep an eye on it and we’ll engage where we can be of help and help. But it’s an exciting time to see what’s happening here.

Isaac Crockett:

Now, Ben, something that you’ve mentioned a little bit, and you and others at the A CLJ are very involved with the pro-life movements in the March for Life in Washington DC and usually it’s not too cold, but it is January. I remember once or twice it was really cold then too. But I remember being at the one that the first time that a sitting vice president, which was Mike Pence under Trump, Trump told him to make sure he was there representing the White House, and he came and spoke at the March for Life. And then I remember being there when Trump, which has never happened either, but an actual sitting president of the United States came to the March for Life, spoke for it. And so there was a lot of cheering, obviously there going on, but a lot of evangelicals, a lot of pro-life people excited about that. Right now all eyes are kind of on the new Trump administration. What can we expect from that? And just looking at who he’s setting up in his cabinet, not all, but many of them do seem to have really good records with pro-life. What are your expectations? What are you seeing in regards to that where you are in dc?

Ben Sisney:

So as you sort of get through this stage, this transitional stage that we’re in right now, it’s intriguing and it is easy to draw some conclusions and speculate and plot a course of what you think it’s going to be like in a particular department or the kind of policy changes they might make or actions they might take based off what you know about the person beforehand and their track record or reputation and things like that. But I’m just telling you Pastor that, but we and your audience, I would respectfully urge not to take anything for granted to support and to express that support. I mean folks in this space pay attention to the grassroots. And candidly, that’s one of the reasons the last, the elections went the way they went just a month or two ago, one side has sort of tone deaf, pretty good chunk of the country, and the other side would say, I’m here for you.

So the new administration, the cabinet picks, and even folks that will get hired underneath the cabinet picks, they need support and they need to be hearing and they need to have the interaction and sort of the finger on the pulse of the American public. And I encourage your listeners to be a positive voice, generally speaking at a restaurant or everybody wants to complain when something bad happens. But when something good happens, we often just sort of take it for granted. But we need to encourage and support where encouragement and support is due. And that definitely applies here in this just like I would encourage that for all your audience with the members of Congress House and Senate, I worked for a US Senator, I know that people calling to express a view on something gets counted, it matters and that’s going to apply here going forward.

I think most of the policy decisions that the Trump team has sort of been preparing and the direction certain things are going to go are all out there and relatively easily ascertainable. But it’s going to be, I think, and I predict an administration of strength of you can count on them. I’m focused for a second on adversaries. They know who’s coming to town, they’ve dealt with him before. And when America is strong, and this is all subject to God’s sovereign will and direction, but I’ll just from a human perspective, and historically when America is strong, the world generally is safer generally, right? And when America is weak, well evil comes out of the shadows. The personal analogy is there. This is a macro of micro and is very true on a national scale in the world, the international theaters. And I think you’re going to see a position of strength domestically, recall the things that President did before energy independence from the world and think about Russia and China, all these complicated things like, but for America to be energy independent is huge. And we can take that for granted because it’s easy to focus on these certain other issues that are incredibly important as well, of course. But we don’t want to take things for granted, I guess. And the strong position and the folks that are getting put together here, I think you’re going to see consistency and strength. You’re going to see law and order and common sense because that’s another thing that President Trump is well known for in the future, common sense governance.

Isaac Crockett:

Those are all things we are hopeful and praying for. And I hope you will continue to pray for our country for the new administration. We’re going to take another quick time out, come back and talk about more of the issues right here. Well, welcome back to the program. I’m Pastor Isaac Crockett and on this Friday edition of Stand In the Gap today, there’s been so much to look at in the news this week we had President Biden giving a farewell address. We have President Trump with so many things going on with him and his cabinet picks and the Senate hearings, and then on the international scene, a lot of things happening. But we have this ceasefire talk that’s going on with Israel and Hamas. It’s starting to really take place and also back home. We have some major storms that hit us snowstorms and areas where it doesn’t normally get snow. Fires in Los Angeles that have been out of control now for a couple of weeks.

So just so much happening. But I’m so, so thankful for what God has done in giving us this program through the American Pastors Network to have stand in the gap media where we can talk about things from a biblical worldview. And so we’ve been talking with two, I want to call them maybe high powered human rights attorneys with the A CLJ attorney Ben Sisney and attorney Shaheryar Gill. And Ben really pointed us to remember to keep praying for all of our leaders and be involved. This is something that Dr. George Barna who releases his information on our program, he made a really big plea right here with me on our Friday program back in October, November time that we get out and be involved in voting. He was showing his studies that were showing that a lot of millions of Christians who went to church were not planning to vote, and we saw a good number of evangelicals come out and vote and some of them hadn’t been planning to.

And so we want to be involved as involved as we can as pilgrims in this land. We want to be salt and light. We trust God’s sovereign plan, but we also as his children, we want to be obedient and be making a difference. And we also know that ultimately the ultimate difference is going to be a spiritual difference. It’s not going to be political, but we also are thankful that we live in a country like America with the kind of freedoms we have. And so Ben, it was a really helpful reminder of what’s going on in DC and some of what is at stake even in this time of change. We just don’t want to take anything for granted, as you said, and we want to really bathe this in prayer. Our co-host, Dave Kistler, he’s out there on the ground in DC right now with his hope to the Hill and his team, and they’re going to be there.

They did this the last two inaugurations and maybe more than that, that they’ve been out talking to people, praying with people, handing things out. They’ll be doing that again, Lord willing on Monday. But Shaheryar, I want to talk to you about, I don’t know if it’s the biggest news of this week because there’s been so much big news, but I think something that’s been in the works now for a year, Biden administration has been working on trying to do this. They are saying though that it was a cooperative effort with the incoming Trump administration that a deal has been made where Hamas is claiming that they will start releasing all of the hostages in order for a ceasefire. You have talked to us so much about Israel and Benjamin Netanyahu and what’s going on there as well as just Middle East in general. So what are your thoughts on what’s been going on? I know things keep changing even last minute, late in the night, maybe early hours of Friday morning for Israel time. Netanyahu kind of went back and forth on some things, but it looks like they are pushing ahead with some sort of a ceasefire agreement. Just curious what you’re seeing and what are some of the warnings we need to be on the lookout for as well as some of the positive things maybe that could come to Israel or to the region if this really works out.

Shaheryar Gill:

Isaac, I think you’re correct. I mean, things are rapidly changing. We’ve seen in the last 15 months how Hamas operatives, the terrorist group attacked Israel, killed 1200 people, innocent civilians, children, brutally mutilated women and children, and then took over 200 hostages with them. And as we know, about 90 to 100 hostages are still in captivity. Some of them are believed to be dead. But as you’ve mentioned, there has been talks about fire, although it’s not final yet, the Israeli government still has to approve it to vote on it, but at least we have. You’ve seen what’s in the last, since yesterday, how people on the both sides, Palestinians and Israelis are joyful and sort of happy what’s going on with the ceasefire because both sides have taken a toll and innocent people have lost their lives. So although much of Hamas has been destroyed, it still obviously exists.

We have seen how Israel has dismantled Hezbollah and decreased its capability significantly in Lebanon, and by extension that’s really even a defeat for Iran. So with all of that, there’s some good news that there has been a ceasefire agreement. I think the way it’s set up is it’s going to work in three stages. The first stage is about six weeks, the first six weeks, the idea is that Hamas will release about 33 of the Israeli hostages in return of 1000 Palestinian prisoners. That’s one Israeli woman or child for every 30 Palestinians. So that’s one aspect of the agreement. The other aspect is that Israeli forces will withdraw from parts of Gaza and will allow some of the people, Palestinians who have been displaced by the war for them to be able to return. And then humanitarian aid is to be increased significantly so that people in Gaza have enough food and clothing and things like that.

So first stage is going to be that the second stage is sort of, again, we don’t know how things are going to unfold, but the plan is that the hostilities would seize permanently and Israeli forces will draw completely from Gaza. Now again, that’s with how we have seen that even to the news today, that how Hamas is reneging on some of the things that the Israelis have asked for. So we don’t know what exactly is going to happen if this deal is, if it’s going to continue for six weeks or even after six weeks. We hope that it does. And I mean with both administrations being part of it, the US administrations, I think the allies and the US government has been pushing for it. And with consistency and persistency, I think we hope, and I mean I think one of the prayers should be that this deal does not fall apart and people see some peace in that region.

Isaac Crockett:

There’s so many things to look at and so many unknowns based on Hamas, also with the Trump administration coming back in. And Trump has said some things basically kind of like Reagan did with Iran before he became president. Better work with us by the time I become president. But there’s a lot going on. But I do wonder, and of course you don’t know all the details, none of us do, but just from what you have seen in the Middle East and kind of the Middle East frame of mind and thinking and culture, do you think that there can be a long lasting peace or a long lasting truce with the Palestinians of Gaza, with Israel, if Hamas stays in leadership? Or do you think that they need to completely overhaul and really get rid of that leadership that Hamas has been filling?

Shaheryar Gill:

Isaac? I don’t think with Hamas or groups like that, with the kind of ideology they have is that there is going to a long lasting or a permanent peace as long as these groups are in existence, and as long as their motto is to destroy Israel, I don’t think there will be any peace. So I think the bigger responsibility on the surrounding countries in the Middle East is to really kind of push for that. Hamas cannot be in control. It cannot continue to operate the way it does. And not just Hamas, there is not just one organization. There are multiple organizations, Palestinian, Islamic Jihad for one. So there are several organizations that operate in that region. So until all of them are dismantled, I don’t think there will be a permanent piece. Of course, peace people, innocent people do want peace. And many of the Palestinians, I would say would want peace who have nothing to do with these kind of organizations.

But many of those people are part of these organizations and unfortunately their ideology is to destroy Israel and they hate the Jewish people, and we can’t really do much about it other than to really defend Israel and for Israel to be able to defend itself against these kind of groups. So again, yes, our prayer is that there’s a long lasting peace. And I mean for the sake of all these innocent people, yes, there should be peace, but at the same time, we have to be vigilant. We have to be careful about how much freedom is given to these kind of organizations.

Isaac Crockett:

Well, real quickly, we have about 20 seconds. Do you think this ceasefire, if it takes, do you think that could help stabilize things in the Middle East

Shaheryar Gill:

At least for a time? Yes. I mean that’s the hope and that’s the point of the ceasefire is to stabilize things and to bring some peace to the region. So I think that should be our prayer.

Isaac Crockett:

You’re right. Let’s pray towards that. Let’s pray for peace in the Middle East, peace of Jerusalem. We’re going to take another time out to hear from some of our partners, but when we come back to wrap things up, we want to look at praying for what’s going on in our nation and then beyond our nation, but especially what’s happening in Israel and Jerusalem to persecute a Christian. So we’re going to take our last break here. We’re going to come back. I want to ask Shaheryar or something that many of you have been asking me to find out from him, a case that he’s been working on at the International Criminal Court for Benjamin Netanyahu. I want to find out about that. I want to find out ways that we can pray for Israel and persecuted Christians. And I want to talk to Ben again, somebody who’s represented Trump, who’s worked with some of these people that we’re hearing about on Capitol Hill right now.

I want to find out some more things from him as well. And we’ll be back after this quick timeout to hear from our partners. Well, welcome back to the program as we’re wrapping things up. If you haven’t been able to catch our entire program, I would encourage you, please go to our website or go download our app, stand in the Gap app on your Apple store or Android or different things. Or you can go to your favorite, like Spotify or any of your podcast players carry us. But you can listen to this on archive, you can listen to it again, you can share it with others. But what an important, I think time we’ve had today to hear from two Christian attorneys with the A CLJ and bring up so many things. And it’s interesting because we didn’t get to talk about this. This all came about just really last minute, but the emphasis from both Ben Sisney and Shaheryar Gill that we need to be praying about these situations, all of these things, the information they’re giving us is incredible.

They’re at the tip of the spear, as we say, of all of what’s going on. And they’re dealing with people that are right in the midst of some major things. And yet both of them bringing it back to trusting our sovereign God and going to him in prayer and then after praying, going and doing what we can about it. And so there’s so much more we could get into and Lord willing we will get into in other programs. But Shari, I want to go back to kind of where we left off. I need to ask you something because I’ve had a number of people, pastors and listeners and things asking me if you have any updates. You’ve been on our program at different times and on our TV program as well, explaining some of your international work, how it takes you to the ICC. Maybe you could explain what that is and what they’ve done in allowing an arrest warrant to be issued for Benjamin Netanyahu and others. I’d love to hear if there’s any update that you have for us on what has happened there.

Shaheryar Gill:

Right. So ICC, the international criminal is in the Hague, and the prosecutor of the ICC has initiated an investigation into the situation, the ongoing conflict that is going on between Hamas and Israel. The most recent update was that the prosecutor filed an application to the pretrial chamber for authorization for arrest warrants against two Israeli officials and two Hamas officials, and one was against Prime Minister Netanyahu and one was the former defense minister Gallant. So Israel basically challenged the jurisdiction of the court, and we have been filing amicus briefs in support of Israel, basically making the argument that the court does not have jurisdiction over Israeli nationals. As you know, the ICC was created by the Rome statute, a treaty, and by law a treaty is not applicable to a state that is not a party to it. So like the United States is not a party to the ICC and Israel is not a party to the ICC.

So what our argument is that because we are not a party to the ICC Israel or the us, the ICC does not have jurisdiction to prosecute or investigate Israeli or US nationals. So that’s one rule. Now, Israelis have recently challenged that jurisdiction and we filed a leave to submit an amicus brief in support of that point, and the prosecutor responded and asked the judges of the appellate chamber to not allow the ECL J’S brief. So we’re waiting for the judges to basically rule on that. Our request whether we can file a brief with the ICC in support of basically arguing that the ICC does not have jurisdiction over Israeli nationals and cannot issue warrants against Israeli officials. So the biggest problem with the ICC is as we have been working on these claims and petitions and filing briefs, the ICC judges are not even consistent in interpreting their own rules.

So one set of judges says this rule should be applied, it should be interpreted one way. Another group of judges says this should be applied in a different way, so they’re not even consistent among themselves. So that’s a real challenge to really convince the court in the US higher courts are supposed to follow the precedent of the lower courts are supposed to follow the precedents of the higher courts. And the idea is that if you don’t know the law, how can you obey the law? So for consistency purposes, the judges have to interpret rules in certain ways, and that’s not the issue case at the ICC, they are very inconsistent in applying the rules. So what we’re trying to do is we are trying to inform the judges about those rules of interpretation and why the ICC cannot exercise jurisdiction. So that’s where we are currently. We’re every day looking on the website to see whether the judges have responded to our request and how, whether they’re going to allow our brief or not.

Isaac Crockett:

And all of this again, comes down to a worldview. What is your worldview? And from a biblical worldview, we say God demands justice and we have to follow the law. That’s why ACL J, American Center for Law and Justice, ECLJ, European Center for Law and Justice and that’s brought you into this and made you guys really the initiators in this whole thing with Benjamin Netanyahu and others. So that is wonderful to see the Lord using you. Real quickly, I want to get to Ben, but I just want to ask you real quickly as we finish here, Shaheryar, are there may be a couple of prayer requests that you could share with us that we could be praying for you and your team right now?

Shaheryar Gill:

I think just prayer for generally what’s going on in the Middle East of Prayer for peace, prayer for protection of God’s people. Also pray for our office in Pakistan. Isaac, we’ve been working on blasphemy cases, so pray for Shazad. We have talked about him on this show who is on death row and other clients, Asan and a Moon, who are also on death row for over false accusations of blasphemy. So pray for them, pray for the courts to hear those cases and our teams there. And just also go on our website, aclj.org to get some more information about these clients. Look at their names, their stories so that you can particularly pray for them.

Isaac Crockett:

Thank you so much and I would encourage all of you to go over there to acl j.org, look at the prayer guide online and look at the persecuted Christian cases. Alright, Ben, as we wrap up, I don’t have a lot of time here before the end of our program, but I’d just love to get some final words from you. As we look at four years under Trump again and a return of a Trump administration, what are some of the things you’re expecting and what are you looking forward to somebody who’s focused on law and justice, what are some of the things you are hopeful for that we could also be praying for our nation and for your ministry that is seeking to uphold and help Christians?

Ben Sisney:

Absolutely. Just a couple things. Not to insinuate that anything else was less important, but there’s a couple highlights that I’d point out. I think one is I expect and we will vigorously support an effort and a focus on combating meaningfully human trafficking, particularly across the border. I mean, what’s the latest number 32,000 children unaccounted for in the past few years? Children, I mean, just let that sink in. Children. I think the new administration is going to be taking that very seriously. I think you’re going to see that and we will be right there with them. The other one, a particular thing, as you know, there’s a number of pro-life, the media calls them protestors, but people expressing their faith in defense of unborn children and women that get arrested for standing outside abortion clinics, being within these bubble zones or buffer zones and getting harassed and prosecuted and thrown in jail. Meanwhile, while the current administration is pardoning more than I could describe on air kinds of crimes, and so seeing just these folks that were wrongfully prosecuted for the ideological, daring to speak out against, that’s another big one I’m looking

Isaac Crockett:

Forward to. Well, thank you so much Ben and Shaheryar for being on here. Thank you for the work you’re doing. We will pray for you as you continue in that. And for every one of you listening, thank you for listening. Please share this program and until next time, stand in the gap for truth, wherever you are today.