Sam Rohrer: Well will it be a blue wave this year, where Democrats and the left make substantial gains and take back the Senate or the House as they say they will? Well, now that the elections, a lot of the midterm elections and ones this week on Tuesday are behind us, some facts are becoming more clearly known, but accurate research by the American Culture and Faith Institute gives us really good insight into the mind of the electorate, particularly the Christian electorate that made the difference in the 2016 election and the role that they will likely play in the general election here in 2018.
Sam Rohrer: Today we’re going to take with George Barna. He’s researcher and executive director of the American Culture and Faith Institute, and obviously if you’ve been listening to the program often, George is with us regularly, in breaking key research that they have put together, but he’s going to talk to us today about a special report that he just released yesterday on this issue.
Sam Rohrer: We’re also going to talk with George in the last segment about whether Christians in the pulpit in America are awakening to the reality of the challenges before us and a number of other things through this program, so you don’t want to miss it. I encourage you to stay tuned and stay with us all the way through.
Sam Rohrer: Now with that brief walk through today’s headlines, I want to welcome you to Stand in the Gap today. I’m Sam Rohrer. I’m going to be joined by Dr. Gary Dull and of course our special guest, George Barna, executive director of the American Culture and Faith Institute. With that, I want to welcome you right off here, George, to Stand in the Gap Today, I appreciate you being with us again.
George Barna: Thanks Sam. It’s great to be back.
Sam Rohrer: I want to get right into this George. Your latest, I’m going to put it at hot off the press research summary that you just released. You did a research report. You included about 1000 people as I read that, across the nation, in that survey. You check out their attitudes regarding voting this year and what might be expected regarding the blue wave resurgence, that I talked about, that’s being touted by Democrats and leftist pundits.
Sam Rohrer: But we have the results of a lot of primary elections, midterm elections in the bag now. They’re done, so we have some of that knowledge, but if I read your report correctly, you seem to be far more focused on the fall general election. Before we get into the results and the findings, we’ll do that in the bulk of the program here. When did you actually conduct this survey and this research? Who was the target sample, the audience there? How accurate plus or minus whatever, is this information that you got?
George Barna: I mean overall just to describe the research, what we were trying to get was a snapshot of the attitudes, the expected behavior and other election related insights from this. We wanted to be able to focus people’s attention on the election because what we’re finding is that in this midterm election, as is usually the case, not very many people are paying much attention to it.
George Barna: We did the sample of 1000 people in mid-May. We actually did another one this past week, companion survey, which supports all of what we had in the report. We targeted all adults across the country, people 18 years of age and older, all 50 states, proportional to the population in those states. The demographic profile of the sample that we have is virtually identical to that of the population across the country.
George Barna: After the fact, what we do is based on the way people answer different questions about some of their attitudes, some of their religious beliefs and behavior, we put people into different segments, such as likely voters or different faith groups or different demographic groups. That enables us to make some of the comparisons and projections that we’ll be talking about.
George Barna: One important caveat here is that we got to remember that we’re doing this five months before election day. There’s still a number of primaries that have not yet run across the country in some states. Things do change. People’s attention generally picks up in elections after Labor Day. So between Labor Day and Election Day is when people really start to tune in. But this gives us an initial sense of where things are at. You wouldn’t want to bet a lot of money on what we’re finding right now, but it gives you a directional idea of where things are headed.
Gary Dull: Yeah, it’s interesting to be able to watch the trends anyway, George and see how things are coming along as we draw closer to Labor Day and so forth. From what you have found so far, let’s dig a little bit deeper into that. As of today, do you think that there’s going to be a massive blue wave in the general election or are we too far out to be able to even get an idea on that?
George Barna: What we’ve been doing, Gary, along with a number of other pollsters who do similar kinds of things, is trying to gauge who has the momentum and in which direction is it moving. So, you never know until election day, but if things were to continue on the same track as we see happening now, and we take historical realities into consideration, what we would suggest is that a blue wave was predicted earlier. Right now that momentum has changed. If anything maybe there will be a blue trickle, but probably not a blue wave.
George Barna: We believe that in all likelihood, based on what we’re seeing now, that the Democrats will probably pick up some seats in the House. The Senate is going to remain relatively split. There are a number of very close races right now, so we’re going to have to wait to see what unfolds over the next five months. The momentum right now actually has turned to the Republican Party, away from the Democratic Party.
George Barna: Largely that has to do with the economy. We can talk about that, but nothing is precise at this point in time. Again, there is very limited intensity in terms of people’s attention. We’re expecting a relatively average turnout, come November. If the election were held today, turnout would be actually below normal. We would project 33% turnout today. Normally in our midterm elections it’s in the 36, 37, 38% range. We believe it will probably escalate to that point by November but certainly this is not one of those elections where people seem to be very passionate about what’s going on.
Sam Rohrer: Well George, we’re going to talk more about that, about that passion. You, as I’ve looked through this research, there are some tremendous, tremendous things that you’ve pulled out of there with attitudes of Americans towards where we’re going politically, where we’re going culturally, where we’re going economically. I think all those things factor into it. But just in another 30 seconds here, when you do this research, what are you hoping to really ultimately impact? Is it people’s reactions? People’s thoughts? People’s plannings? What’s the real goal here?
George Barna: The bottom line on everything, as you know Sam is action. Attitudes relate to action. Often they precede that action, but what I’d like to do with the research is to wake people up, particularly conservative Christians. I’d like them to understand that we cannot get complacent because some things are moving in what we perceive to be a positive direction. The reality is that this is a war. This is part of a larger culture war that continues to take place, although some people are trying to lull us into complacency and say, oh the culture wars ended years ago.
Sam Rohrer: Well in the 2016 general election, we all know that the results of that presidential election in particular rocked the political world. The pundits were not only admitting defeat and surprise during the year regarding their guesses. They were nearly all shocked and mostly humiliated because they were wrong in the general election.
Sam Rohrer: That anger and that shock resulting from the election upset is still being witnesses 18 months later with all of the bogus Russia investigations underway, the unfolding evidences of embedded corruption and conspiratorial actions from top levels of government of the former Obama administration, as they are seeking to avoid prosecution. But all of this is going on at the same time while they are relentlessly harassing the Trump administration and they’re being forced to fend off continual opposition from people still buried outside in the press as well as inside throughout government.
Sam Rohrer: The polls and the research, as you all know ladies and gentlemen, are all over the board, once again talking about what will happen, what’s going to happen and ultimately though we know, it’s going to be that final vote that’s going to make the real difference. Yet however, accurate research that’s done honestly, particularly with the people who made the election in 2016 a reality, is very helpful to us. It does tell us a story, not only about the status of these people today, but the likely results of the impact of these folks in the fall of 2018.
Sam Rohrer: I want to go back now to our special guest George Barna who in his latest research, a midterm update, has picked up a lot of information we want to try and uncover in this program. George if I could do this, let’s pick up where we left off. You’d said that your research indicates that there will likely not be a major big blue wave. I think you actually used the word, maybe a blue trickle. But you also used the phrase that there would not be any red surprise either. Now what is it, as we start to get into some details now, what is it about the attitudes of the likely voters you interviewed that makes you come to the conclusion that there will be no blue wave, but I also want you to talk about what you mean by no red surprise.
George Barna: Yeah, there are a number of different things that we looked at in terms of attitudes. We looked at issues. We know for instance that Democrats right now and liberals are feeling much more intensely engaged with this upcoming midterm election than are either conservatives or Republicans. When we look at likely turnout, we find that Democrats at the moment would be more likely to actually turn out to vote. They’ve been playing closer attention to politics and government news. They’re more likely to believe that this upcoming midterm is extremely or very important, which of course is insightful because it tells us about people’s motivation to actually participate in the election.
George Barna: They’re more likely to say the country’s moving in the wrong direction on a number of different indicators, so we look at all of that, and we say, okay, we know the Democrats and the liberals are motivated to some extent. When we look at Republicans, we don’t see that same level of intensity. However, there are pockets of the conservative constituency particularly in the sage-cons, where we find they are well tuned into what’s going on, even at this early stage of the election.
George Barna: It’s too early to make any hard and fast predictions, but if we look at what’s going to happen, we think yeah. The Democrats may pick up a few seats here and there in the house, but they may even up the score in the Senate. That remains to be seen. We’re expecting them to pick up a few races among governor candidates, gubernatorial candidates, but we don’t think that a sweep from either side is likely. Some real zealous panelists have been saying, “Oh look at where the momentum’s going right now.” It’s moving right now back toward conservatives and Republicans and therefore there’s ultimately going to be a big red surprise in November. We don’t see that happening either.
Gary Dull: You know it’s interesting George, to see how Donald Trump is dealing with this because traditionally midterm elections is a time when the opposite time that is in the White House seemingly makes increase. He’s out there trying to stir up the troops and say, “We can’t be lazy. We need to get out there and work on this, so that we can come away victorious in the midterms.” It’s going to be interesting to see how all of that works out.
Gary Dull: But in the report that you put out yesterday George, you present some very interesting data. For instance, you show that 69% of the people are angry about the state of America. 66% say America is going down the wrong path politically. 68% say that America is going in the wrong direction culturally. 77% which is interesting say America is going in the wrong direction morally and then 42% say America is going in the wrong direction economically. Those are some very interesting statistics. Yet, along with that, you show that 45% of Americans approve of the job that Donald Trump is doing. So my question and I’m sure the question of a lot of our listeners is simply this. How do you reconcile those statistics?
George Barna: Well, Gary, you know it’s interesting. When you look at, at this range of perspectives that Americans possess, there are several things that jump out. One is that fact that now a majority of people actually say that we’re moving in the right direction economically. Now we haven’t had that in more than a decade. That’s a big deal, and the reason it’s a big deal is because when we talk about the nation being on the wrong track politically or culturally or morally, people don’t think as often about those issues. Sometimes they don’t experience the reality of those things the way that they do what’s happening economically in the country.
George Barna: So economics is, well has been for the last probably 15 years, maybe more, the top issue that people are always concerned about. When they vote for a candidate, one of the things in their mind is what’s this guy going to do or what’s this woman going to do to my pocketbook? Are their hands going to be in my wallet or are they going to be putting money back in my wallet? That’s a big deal. Everybody pays attention to that.
George Barna: This is a big transition. So that’s one of the things that conservatives and Republican candidates have going for them in this upcoming election. The other thing that’s really interesting to me about this, or another thing is the fact that so many people have remained angry about the state of America, but as we’ve probed on the nature of that anger, we found that it transitioned. During the Obama years, conservatives and Republicans were angry about the social policies. They were angry about the terrorism policies and the foreign policies of the Obama administration. They were angry about how the media was covering what that administration was doing.
George Barna: Now that’s transitioned and you’ve got a lot of that kind of anger in terms of policy and what not, held by the Democrats and the liberals. There’s been a real transition. The bottom line I would say is that here in America, we’re in an almost perpetual state of dissatisfaction and distrust of our political system and our political actors. That culture war is still raging. It’s interesting to keep monitoring these things and seeing what’s happening and how it’s all going to play out.
Sam Rohrer: George, the numbers, when I’m looking at them, and you touched on it a little bit, but when I see numbers like 77% saying we’re going in the wrong direction morally, that is a big, big number. Now, are those people thinking that we, I mean again, this is a sample that you’ve made, but some people could say that they don’t like the fact that there may be a moral direction. Others maybe don’t like the fact that we may be going in an immoral direction. Can you tell us anymore about what they mean by direction morally?
George Barna: Yeah. I mean essentially what we’re talking about here Sam, as you know, it’s a worldview issue. This is where the battle of the worldviews is seen within one of these kinds of frameworks. We’ve got three out of hour people saying they don’t like what’s happening morally in the country, but then when you split it down across faith groups, you would find that there are different reasons for that.
George Barna: For instance, among the Sage-cons, the spiritual active, governance, engaged conservative Christians, people who take their Christian faith very seriously, they consistently read and try to live by the bible, they look at what’s going on in our culture and they say we’re moving farther away from God. We’re saying that pornography is okay. Divorce is okay. Adultery is okay, and so on and so forth. We talked about that in the previous program.
George Barna: That concerns them. On the other hand, you’ve got liberals who are looking at our moral condition and they’re saying, I can’t believe that y’all are taking away funding from Planned Parenthood because now women aren’t going to be able to have abortions when they want them. I can’t believe that you’re trying to put more limitations on things. You’re trying to run things by the rule of law, but the laws are unjust. Therefore we shouldn’t be doing that. We need to change those laws. You have this constant conflict that’s taking place between these two sides because we’ve got this differing worldviews which are the underpinning of those perspectives.
Sam Rohrer: And I would say then, based on what you’re saying, that when you define the word wrong, 77% of Americans say we’re going in the wrong direction morally, the definition of wrong would be determined by those people’s particular worldview of what is meant by wrong. Is that what you’re saying?
George Barna: Yeah, absolutely. The other fascinating thing about it of course, is that when we talk about what direction the country’s moving in, there are even different perspectives there. Because conservatives would say, okay with Mr. Trump in office, certain things have gotten better. Those same things are what people on the other side of the aisle would say no, no. That’s what’s making our country worse. That’s the wrong direction there. That’s not the right direction. So you’ve even got that kind of clash there.
Sam Rohrer: See that’s why I think you’re saying George that we’re in a perpetual state of dissatisfaction. Conservatives would be on one side. The others are on the other side but it comes back to biblical worldview and that makes a big difference which then further complicates the whole thought of what’s going to happen.
Sam Rohrer: Now in George Barna’s recent book about the 2016 elections, that he entitled “The Day Christians Changed America,” that book you can find on Amazon or on the America Culture and Faith Institute website. George may mention it a little bit more, but in that book, George documented how Christian engagement in that election and how they did engage in election in a way that perhaps was not seen before. It determined an election that really defied history and shocked the world.
Sam Rohrer: There’s no question that the world would be a far more dangerous place today, right now, for Christians and for Jews in particular, for America and Israel, had Christians not gotten out and voted and yes, God did work a miracle. But that is now history. The question is, now, what is the attitude and the level of engagement by that same group? Is the passion still there? Based on what we know now, according to the latest American Culture and Faith Institute research, should we be alarmed? Should we be encouraged? Should we be warned or should we be fore-armed? We’re going to talk about that right now with George Barna. Thanks George for being with us and again taking time out of your schedule to be here.
George Barna: It’s always good to be here.
Sam Rohrer: You’ve broken out George, throughout your research and this one in particular, as well. You define it there. Faith-oriented voters. You’ve broke it into these several categories. Born-again Christians which you said comprise about 30% of the total electorate. Notional Christians, the way you term them, they comprise about 40%. You have a category of skeptics that comprise about a 21%. Other faith, 9% and then there’s the group that you’ve described as Sage-cons, comprising between 8 and 10% or between 20 and 25 million voters. Now I wanted to differentiate these a little bit for our listener’s benefit, but which one of them played the most significant role in the 2016 election? I want you to answer that, and do you see them playing an equally important role here in 2018?
George Barna: Well, Sage-cons really were a hugely significant group, back in the middle of, really the beginning of the presidential campaign, early to the middle of 2015. They had no interest in Donald Trump. Only about 9% said they would ever vote for hin. Come Election Day in November 2016, 91% of them actually turned out to vote, and of that 91%, 93% voted for Donald Trump. There was a major transition that took place there. They still didn’t like him. They still didn’t trust him, but when they looked at the issues that mattered to them and the candidate chances that were before them, they realized they really didn’t have much choice. They had to vote for Mr. Trump.
George Barna: They’ve been pretty pleasantly surprised since he took office. That group is somewhere on the order of 8, 9, 10% of the voting population. They are all born-again Christians. They are all heavily involved in their faith, but also get involved in politics because they believe the bible calls them to be engaged in all aspects of life, including government and politics.
George Barna: They’re going to play a major role in this upcoming election. Right now, when we look at where things stand, they are the single segment that is most likely to vote among all the conservatives in the country. Roughly half of them are likely to vote, currently. That may go up before November. When you compare that to the rest of conservatives, they’re about 10, 11 percentage points behind Sage-cons when you back them out of the numbers.
George Barna: Now the other group that was important was notional Christians. These are people who consider themselves to be Christian, but they would say that after they die, they really don’t know what’s going to happen to them. They hope that God will show his mercy on them, give them grace. They say that they’re trying to live in a way that will convince God. They deserve eternal salvation but they don’t believe that Jesus died on the cross for them and that they can appropriate that kind of salvation through his grace, through that manner.
George Barna: That’s an important group because they’re 40% of the population. In that last election, they were also important because for the first time in about eight elections, they actually sided with the Republican candidate. They typically go for the Democratic candidate by a 49 to 40% margin. In that last election, they voted in favor of Mr. Trump. Once again, they’ll be significant but remember. They’re not conservative by and large. They are much more moderate. They don’t pay as much attention. They’re less likely to vote, lower turn out levels. All of these kinds of things. Different positions on many key issues, such as abortion. Again, watching these groups is critical.
George Barna: You mentioned also that one of the groups we tracked is called skeptics. These are the atheists, the agnostics, people who say they have no interest in faith. That is the fastest growing faith group in America today. They’re currently about 21% of the population. That’s a group that invariably votes for the more liberal candidates. Typically for Democratic candidates. In the last election, if we look at what happened, Christians voted for Trump. Non-Christians voted for Clinton. It was a really clearcut margin. 57% of the Christians of all types, sage-con, born-again, evangelical, notional, 57% for Trump, 37% for Clinton. Non-Christians, whether we’re talking about people aligned with other faith groups or the skeptics, 62% went for Clinton. Only 26% went for Trump. So again, there was a clear worldview distinction there.
Gary Dull: You know, George, I think it’s serious for us to recognize that the fastest growing faith group as it were to be called are the skeptics. I think that shows us that as the church, we have a lot of work to do in the area of evangelism and something like that should be of great concern to pastors and committed Christians across our nation.
Gary Dull: But, let’s dig into this just a little bit more if you may. We have talked on this program at various times about the divide that’s in the United States of America today. In fact, on the National Day of Prayer this year, the theme was unity because it’s recognized that we are divided in the nation. In your research though, you dig into that deeper and show that there’s even a great division among Christians. The born-again, notional, sage-cons and so forth and so on. Of course, you know, that division could make an impact upon the election as well.
Gary Dull: I’m wondering if you could please describe those differences for our audience. What do you think is going to be the outcome of those differences? What are those differences? What are they? Which ones are growing and which ones are shrinking?
George Barna: Okay, to go a little bit beyond what we said just a moment ago, if we look at sage-cons, they are all conservatives not only in their social and political views, but also in their theological views. They read the bible regularly. They believe the bible is God’s word. They take it at face value and they believe that their responsibility on earth is to be the kingdom of God, to really take those biblical principles and put them into practice every moment of every day that they’re alive.
George Barna: These are people who because they try to do that, believe that they have to be involved in government and politics, not because it’s a natural inclination or something they’re naturally interested in, but they believe God has called them to be that kind of salt and light in the culture and therefore they can’t ignore a whole area of government. We find that they tend to be more engaged than other people. They’re all born-again Christians, but they also believe that they have a personal responsibility to be sharing their faith in Christ and their views about salvation and forgiveness with other people.
George Barna: That differentiates from born-again Christians, most of whom in America today would say yes, they all believe that they’re going to go to heaven after they die, only because they confess their sins, they accepted Christ as their savior. But sadly, what’s happened over the last 25 years in this country is that most born-again Christians no longer share their faith in Christ with others. It has become something so personal that they’re grateful to go for saving, but they’re not necessarily sharing that kind of gratitude and perspective with others.
George Barna: Oddly we find that born-again Christians are more moderate than you would find sage-cons to be. A much smaller proportion of them have a biblical worldview. They’re just about evenly split between being Democrats and Republicans and in the last 10 years, they’ve actually been moving to the left politically. Notional Christians tend to be moderate when it comes to theology as well as politics and even morality. They’re much more lenient if you will when it comes to moral perspective.
Sam Rohrer: Well today we’re talking about research, and the latest research from the America Culture and Faith Institute of which George Barna is the executive director and the one who oversees that. In the area of research, we hear it all the time, but research is good, oftentimes, if it’s done accurately, but it tends to give just a snapshot picture of a point in time. But when you accurately conduct it over lengthy period of time, it does begin to point to an accurate picture of a direction or change or other key factors.
Sam Rohrer: The work done by George Barna and now the America Culture and Faith Institute is perhaps, in my opinion, one of the most valuable resources of research regarding Christian thought and action in America, where it was and where it’s going. To give us some greater insight now as we head into the concluding sector here, as we think about what may happen in the 2018 general election, I want to continue in our discussion with George.
Sam Rohrer: If I could George, if I could just ask you a question from this fashion. If there was something that came out of this midterm report and link it with others if you can, if you need to, but on a trend basis, whatever. Is there a warning sign or an alarm bell? Take it from a negative perspective first and we want to come back and ask you on the positive, but is there a warning sign or an alarm bell that should be sounded in regard to this research that you conducted, as it relates to Christians and their attitudes toward government policy, candidates, upcoming elections and those kinds of things that we’re talking about here that affect the culture? Is there anything that came out of this that you would want to highlight?
George Barna: I think there are a few things Sam. Certainly one of those is that people don’t seem to understand the earlier you get involved in these kind of elections, the better off things are going to be, the more influence that you’re going to have. So rather than waiting for the last few weeks before a general election to start doing a little bit of homework and paying attention to the candidates and what they’re about, determining who those candidates are going to be is what the primaries are all about.
George Barna: That goes a long way towards determining what’s actually going to happen in November and beyond. That’s one thing, is that we don’t seem to be aware of how significant it is to be involved early on. Secondly, I’m concerned about the degree of apathy and complacency, particularly among Christians, not necessarily sage-cons, but among other Christians, regarding what’s taking place in the country.
George Barna: When 77% say we’re moving in the wrong direction morally, and then we don’t do anything about the people who put into place the laws that to a large extent influence if not determine the morality of our country, well, there’s our problem right there. We’re not playing the game. We got to be active. The third thing that has come out of not just this study, but other ones that we’ve been doing over the last number of years, is that we continue to see that the local church is not really involved in this process of arming people with information, biblical perspective really, on how to think about the issues and then what is our responsibility? What can we do? What should we do as followers of Christ, as people of God’s word to actually have a positive impact on the culture that ultimately will enable us to honor him and be a better representation of the Kingdom of God?
Gary Dull: You know George, you bring something up there, and I saw the two fold question for you. You say the church really isn’t actively involved, so people really in the pews are not being armed to get involved effectively. The question that I have is do the people in the pews want to be armed? Across the nation, if you have a pastor who says we need to deal with these issues, I need to arm the people, I need to talk to them about these facts, does the average church have people within their pews who really want to be armed? Then a second fold aspect of the question is, do you see any positive trends as the results of Christians being engaged in the 2016 election? If there is a positive trend there, what would that trend be?
George Barna: You know, Gary, in relation to the first question, do the people in the pews actually want to be informed, in a way it doesn’t matter. I mean, if you’re going to be the church …
Gary Dull: Good point.
George Barna: One of the responsibilities of a leader is to motivate people to care about the things that really matter. So the issue here I think is one of do we have leaders leading us, and secondly are they really preparing the people? Are they equipping them to be agents of transformation in our culture? What we know from our research is that most senior pastors say they’re not leaders but they’re gifted teachers. They’ve been called by God to teach his truths.
George Barna: Well, fine. That’s good enough. If you’re given that audience, there’s a group of people there who need to know certain truths about how the bible relates to our culture today. So a good teacher is somebody who will make the material interesting enough and will motivate people sufficiently to pay attention and then act upon that. I can guarantee you that people aren’t coming to the church wanting to know about Jonah. They’re not really wanting to know about the implications of their own sin, but a great teacher will make people pay attention to those topics and in the same way, a great teacher needs to help Christians sitting in the pews to be aware of the fact that this country’s future depends on Christians taking it to a better place.
Sam Rohrer: Well I think that’s a good answer, and I appreciate that, because I think pastors all across the nation need to hear what you had to say there. It was Lee Iacocca who used to say, and I think it goes back beyond him, “Lead, follow or get out of the way.” I hate to put it that way, but that’s something to take into consideration. Go ahead, George.
George Barna: Yeah, and then in relation to your second question, are there some positive trends that are coming out of this, you know, well certainly I think the data that we have about sage-cons is showing that based on what happened in the 2016 election, now they’re a little bit more confident in themselves. They know that they can make a difference. They know that their vote is important. They know that many elections hinge on a 1% or 2% point difference in the voting. So, they are still very much engaged. They are staying informed. They are trying to get other people onboard as well.
George Barna: I think also the other thing that we’ve seen, an increasing number of people who were kind of standing on the sidelines before have been watching what Donald Trump’s been doing, and thankfully they’ve remained open-minded enough to say, you know what? He actually does, has done some things that have turned out for the good of the country, and so maybe we need to continue to give this guy a chance. He is maybe not of our moral persuasion. He maybe doesn’t use Twitter the way that we think he should use it, but as a leader of the country, he’s done some things that are for our good and to our advantage. We need to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Sam Rohrer: All right. George, these are all fantastic things. It’s great information today. I’d like you, before we wrap up here, give the website to American Culture and Faith Institute. I think people can also sign up for your newsletter that you send out, and your book, “The Day Christians Changed America,” where can they find it? That information please.
George Barna: Yeah, I mean the information about this study and all the studies we’re doing, you can find it at culturefaith.com. You can find it at georgebarna.com. Either of those places. They’ll have this particular report, all of our past reports. You can also get the book, “The Day Christians Change America,” either at culturefaith.com, georgebarna.com. Amazon.com sells it, so a lot of places where you can get it. Hopefully, it will be an encouragement that yes, not only do we have a responsibility, but we have evidence that when we participate, we make a difference.
Sam Rohrer: Ladies and gentlemen, as we wrap up the program today, I’m going to leave it with George just said. When we participate, when we act upon what we believe the bible tells us to do, understand our duties, it does make a difference. That should affect all of us.
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