Ask Sam – Influencing Others During the Holidays

Nov. 15, 2024

Host: Dr. Isaac Crockett

Co-host: Hon. Sam Rohrer

Guests: Zach and Maggie White

Note: This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program aired on 11/15/24. To listen to the podcast, click HERE.

Disclaimer: While reasonable efforts have been made to provide an accurate transcription, the following is a representation of a mechanical transcription and as such, may not be a word for word transcript. Please listen to the audio version for any questions concerning the following dialogue.

Isaac Crockett:   Well, welcome to Stand In the Gap. Happy Friday. I’m Isaac Crockett and joining me as the President of the American Pastors Network, Sam Rohrer, the regular host of the Stand in the Gap Today program. And I can’t think of a better way to have a happy Friday or even kind of a casual Friday than have a good conversation with Sam and I, but also our friends, Zach and Maggie, great musicians out of Nashville, Zach and Maggie, thanks so much for making time on your schedule to be with us today.

Zach White:        Thanks for having us. We’re so excited to be here.

Isaac Crockett:   Zach, we don’t have you for the whole program. We’re just going to talk to you a little bit here about some of the things going on. But I know in my house, we’ve been listening to a lot of your Maggie’s music for the last several months. A couple of my kids got to meet you guys down at Sing in Nashville, and they just loved it. But if I just google Zach and Maggie, you guys are the ones that come up. So if anybody’s interested, how do you find out more? You can just Google your guys’ names, Zach and Maggie, but could you tell us some of the things maybe where people could find your music? And it’s more than just music that you guys make, you make things exciting and fun and enjoyable, but where can people find what you guys do?

Zach White:        Well, we’re good millennials and we’re all over online, but yeah, Zach and Maggie music.com is our website, and that links to, oh, sorry, it’s Zach and maggie.com. I forgot my own website, Zach and maggie.com, and that’s Zach with an H, by the way, a lot of people might. There’s a lot of different ways to spell it, but yeah, no, we really try to explore creativity and creation and all the things that we’ve been given in a fun manner. Maggie and I are both pretty playful folks and that I think comes through in the music. We like to write songs that are fun, short stories, though it may not be stuff that you would necessarily typically hear on a Christian radio station. It’s folk Americana. They are very family friendly songs and they’re very playful and fun. And then we also try to bring musical excellence whenever we can.

Zach White:        So a lot of instrumentals and really fun sounds and playing, and kids like to respond to it. They tend to have a pretty open view of music and a lot of families really enjoy the stuff we make. We also like to do some music videos, fun visualizations of these kind of kooky, fun stories we do. And then our new thing that we’ve been really dabbling in is our favorite hobby outside of making music is cooking. And because when you tour around and you tend to have that merch table after a show, most musicians, the whole economy was based on people buying CDs. But I don’t know if you and your audience are aware, but a lot of people don’t buy CDs anymore. So we developed a cookbook that pairs with our album. So every track on our album has an accompanying recipe that goes along with it, and then of course, we’ll make videos around that, but we just hope that it’s a fun space for family and fans to come and enjoy the creativity of creation that God’s given us.

Sam Rohrer:       That’s great. And I know our listeners would say, boy, that is creative taking and putting a recipe along with a song, but Maggie, let me go to you right now because I don’t think it’s been mentioned in this program, but you do a lot with Getty music, music tours. There’s a connection there. You want to explain that just briefly, and then obviously we’re not far off from Christmas. Thanksgiving is just about at the door. Christmas is coming, there’s a Christmas tour, I believe it’s underway. Tell us a little bit about that and how people can find out more about what’s coming up, particularly Christmas tour, Getty music, you all involved as well?

Maggie White:   Yeah, so we actually just got off the road from their fall tour, which was Keith and Kristen Getty with Matt Papa and Matt Boswell. And so that was a blast. This marks my 12th year with them. And anyhow, it was a fantastic tour. Did a lot of churches, went all the way up to Canada and all the way down to Mississippi. And then coming up for Christmas, we’re going to have a much larger band. Think of the Christmas concert as kind of the first half’s much more concert oriented and the second half, it’s kind of like a lessons. And Carol service really focuses on the Christmas story and singing the Christmas hymns in between, and it’ll be a lot of theaters and concert halls. We’ll do Carnegie, we’ll do Museum of the Bible, actually multiple nights at Museum of the Bible. One of those nights will be live streamed and a lot of other theaters around the country. And then we’re also going over to Belfast for the first time, taking the Irish Christmas over to Ireland, or as they call it, Christmas. So yeah, it’ll be a really fun tour. I’m really excited about it. We’ll go from, I think it starts on November 30th. He’s in Nashville at the Rimmer Horn and goes all the way till December 20th is the last show

Zach White:        Out in Belfast. For any listeners who might not be familiar by the name of Getty Music, if you attend church on Sunday, then you’re probably singing one of their hymns, especially if you’re in a more traditional style hymns based church. But they’re all about really encouraging folks to sing congregational music together and writing songs that have the gospel and the theology really ironed out and clear, but also paired with really beautiful melodies that encourage congregational singing. So that gets, obviously part of that fall tour is really showcasing those hymns. But Christmas is a special time because it gets really open up for Carol’s familiar carol’s that we have.

Isaac Crockett:   That’s funny that you say it because I do find people still that don’t recognize Keith Getty’s name, but I start quoting some of his hymns. I’m like, oh yeah, I love that hymn. I’m like, well, that’s Keith Getty who wrote that in the Carols that they’re doing. And I love the Carols thing that you’re talking about in how all this is such things. Why do you think that Christmas carols are so important to us?

Zach White:        Well, I mean there’s an element I feel like in the church that we have maybe in more recent history have had trouble articulating, especially if you come from a more maybe reformed or traditional background like I do. We’re really great at talking about the truths and the theology and debating some of those details and facts. But the Bible is very rich with understanding that our emotions play a big part of this life, of our relationship with God. I mean, look at the Psalms, look at the proverbs. The emotion is a way that we process the world, and one of the best ways we can communicate through emotion is through music. So pairing the truths of scripture, these things that we study so hard and so detailed to understand with truly beautiful melodies and beautiful artistry helps wrap those truths within emotions. And I find that Carols are, you get a lot of people that might complain about the repetitiveness of Christmas music throughout the year, but when you actually have one of these time tested truly gorgeous carols and a sung by a congregation, which is becoming more and more unique of a feature of the church as time goes on, there are very few places, at least in the West, I know that people still come together to sing a song that’s tailor made for them to sing together.

Zach White:        It really is a beautiful thing that touches the heart in a way that sometimes dry facts can’t do. So we find that these Carol sings can be a wonderful way for outreach. They can be a way to revitalize a church, they can be a way for a family to come together to sing a truth at the same time without some of the awkwardness that can happen if you try and force it in other ways.

Isaac Crockett:   Well, that’s great. Well, thanks so much. I love hearing what’s going on with you guys and at Getty Music. For those of you interested in attending one of these worship times at Christmas, caroling fun times, it’s Getty music.com. Then also, thank you Zach and Maggie, Zach and Maggie.com, just great music all the way around. Thank you both for being on with us, and we’re going to take our first break and we’ll be right back after this. Welcome back to this Friday program. I’m Isaac Crockett, joined with Sam Rohr as the co-host. Sam’s the president of the American Pastors Network and the regular host of this program. We were just talking with our friends, Zach and Maggie, who love to make all kinds of neat music. They work with Getty Music and we were talking about this big Christmas program that they have. It’s more than just a regular program, it’s more than just a concert.

Isaac Crockett:   There’s the worship aspect of it, there’s the reverence and awe of celebrating Christ coming to earth, putting on flesh and obedience to his father, but there’s also just fun and enjoyable family parts to it as well as this year really also kind of a teaching aspect of it, almost like not so much preaching but just a lot kind of outside the box. And Zach and Maggie fit in really well with that because they’re also a godly couple, young couple that are also making music and kind of thinking outside the box. Sam I just bought earlier, not too long ago, their cookbook that goes along with one of their latest albums because my kids like their music and my daughter likes cooking, likes recipes. So I got that. Well, I haven’t tried it yet because giving it to Kate for Christmas hope, Kate’s not listening to this program today, but just a lot of neat things that they have going on.

Isaac Crockett:   But it really got me thinking, Sam, when we have a biblical worldview, we get to think outside the box sometimes because our biblical worldview brings us joy when other people are upset. It brings us true joy when we see the true meaning of life and we understand it and can live a fuller life. And so as we come into kind of the holiday season, I wanted to talk to you about that and there’s so much to think through and we focus a lot of times on Christmas and we have advent calendars and that is definitely kind of the highlight of the holiday season, but we also have Thanksgiving coming right up and it really is a holiday, and then we have the transitioning into the next year and New Year’s and those sort of things. And then I think more and more Christians are finding value and knowing and understanding, even celebrating some of the Jewish holidays that have been around since even before Christ, things like Hanukkah.

Isaac Crockett:   And that obviously comes this year, right the same time as Christmas. So a lot of neat things coming up this time of year, Sam, and I just want to kind of pick your brain on some of that, how we can use our biblical worldview and our Bible knowledge in this time of the year. But let’s just start with this idea of holidays. I mean, we like to say Merry Christmas to people and sometimes people will say, well, happy holidays and admit to try to be non-offensive and not hurt somebody’s faith or spiritual background. But really even the word holidays, Sam, doesn’t that have a spiritual connotation to it,

Sam Rohrer:       Isaac? It actually does. It is interesting, and I’m going to go back before I answer that question. You were talking about thinking outside the box from a biblical worldview perspective, as we’re talking and as we talk regularly on this program and you and I doing our stand in the gap at TV program, we are coming from a biblical worldview perspective. So from God’s perspective, we’re trying to think inside the box, but when compared to the world, we are outside the box. It’s kind of interesting how we look at it, but what we’re talking about is it’s really the way God has prescribed things to be. We choose to think how we choose to think and how we choose to think and act arises out of a host of things. So hopefully what we’re going to talk about is from God’s perspective thinking inside the box the way he wants.

Sam Rohrer:       But holidays is one of those things. First thing I like to do is go to the dictionary, find out what it says when I go to the dictionary that we talk about a lot, Webster’s 1828 dictionary. And the reason we go there is because that dictionary was built and assembled by Webster from where we got Webster’s dictionary, but he did it from a biblical worldview perspective. So many of those definitions that will be within that repertoire of English words that were present at the founding of our country, he will have linked to them actual Bible verses that build out the principle that underscores undergirds the definition. So in regard to holiday, my point being this, when I go in and I enter the word holiday, H-O-L-I-D-A-Y, it didn’t exist. It didn’t exist in 1828, and it takes you immediately. It says it does not exist and it takes you to the site that says holiday, H-O-L-Y-D-A-Y Holy day.

Sam Rohrer:       At that point in not that far too distant past, there was no such thing as holiday with an I. It was only holiday with a Y. And that was not that. It was geared specifically to some biblical connection. It went to the heart of why we set apart any kind of a day. And so it says celebrate an event deemed auspicious to the welfare of a nation or an anniversary festival. It devoted to religious just one of them, and then such as Christmas, holiday, H-O-L-Y-D-A-Y. So that’s a good place to start, Isaac. It’s holidays are things that have a meaning to them, and it’s not just the event, it’s the meaning behind them. And I think that goes to the heart of how if we just consider Thanksgiving and Christmas and all that and think meaning, why is it there? It puts us on a right track to approach it differently than the world approaches it.

Isaac Crockett:   I love that, Sam, because we do see everything differently than the world sees it. And these days were not something that just came up lately. I mean, they feel like sometimes they’re being exploited lately by merchants wanting to sell things or something. But Thanksgiving we think of our pilgrim forefathers and the sacrifices they went through and that yet even in what seemed like very difficult times, they could say thanks to the Lord, I was just talking to somebody in my church who’s in the hospital and about to undergo go a dangerous surgery and just seems like a lot of bad things have happened to her. And she was saying to me, pastor, I’m so thankful. I just want to thank the Lord for what he’s doing even in this difficult time. And that’s really what our forefathers were doing and what we need to be able to do.

Isaac Crockett:   That’s written on the DNA of Thanksgiving. The same thing with Christmas. It’s looking at this first advent of Jesus Christ, knowing that him coming in the manger, it’s foreshadowing then the death on the cross, which we get there to that and we look at Easter or resurrection Sunday of his resurrection, and then we know that he’s coming again and just as much faith that he came the first time and we still celebrate it all over the world. We know his second advent will come, he will come again as he had said, and of course in a different way. So exciting things as Christians to use these holy days, these days of remembrance to pass things on to others. And so Sam, I have more questions really than I think I have time to ask you, but on Monday you were talking with Dr. Renton Rathman about the dangers of just follow your heart and that kind of sentimentality. But you’re right, as Christians, we can use the Bible to help us develop traditions and things. I’m just curious, we have Thanksgiving coming up very soon. Are there family traditions that you have that you have been able to help put in importance to your children and now to your grandchildren on having a thankful spirit to God,

Sam Rohrer:       Isaac? Well, part of it goes to what we just were talking about, looking at special days, days of observance, which is what a holiday HOLY day is. We’ve always tried to build these days that are set aside for whatever purpose, Christmas, Thanksgiving, obviously 4th of July, our nation obviously, but to go not so much to the what, but to have some discussion and conversation and emphasis on the why. And the reason for that is for us anyway, we’ve tried to do it is that I go back to the Old Testament again. There’s an example of where Israel was about to cross and did cross the Jordan River. They were going into the Promised Land. God told them, take stones out of the bottom of this river and put them on the bank when you get on the other side and build a memorial, which is what the scripture says.

Sam Rohrer:       And God said, now here’s the reason that you do it. You build this, you establish this physical thing. So a point of memorial can be a physical object, it can be a statue, it can be some kind of something of that flavor or it can be a day. God had Israel set aside feast days. He called them observances that they were to do every year, but all of them had the same purpose. Why? And God told the Israelites at this point, now here’s why you do this. You put the stones here and it’s for the purpose that in the generations to come when your children, your grandchildren, see these experience this, they see this pile of rocks or this memorial or observe a day, a Thanksgiving, a Christmas that you say and take the opportunity to say right now, this is why we’re doing it.

Sam Rohrer:       And in every case God told Israel, which is I think what we as parents we’ve tried to do and tried to encourage others to do is go and say right now what has God done? What did God do in order to bring about this event, this occurrence for which we’re celebrating or this day, this Thanksgiving day? And of course that’s what the Pilgrim fathers and Puritan fathers did. They established a day of Thanksgiving because they knew that being thankful to God and counting their blessings to God was accomplished a whole lot more. And we can talk about what that is, but they did that, but they went to the why and the why always included in accounting of what God has done.

Isaac Crockett:   That’s so great. What has God done in your life? He’s done so much for us. And when we take time just to stop and encounter many blessings, as the old song says, name them one by one, we remember so many amazing things that he has done, and it’s a great opportunity to give him praise and to think about all of these things, whether it’s our 4th of July, our country or Christmas, what Christ has done so many things to give God glory for. We’ll be right back on staying in the gap today. Well, on this Friday program, we’re having fun just Sam and I talking about the holidays, what it really means and how we can use it as an opportunity in our own lives to remember what God has done, but as an opportunity to share with others. And I don’t know what your family does for things, but Thanksgiving is a great time.

Isaac Crockett:   I know in our home we have extended family that we celebrate with. We have church family that we celebrate with, and oftentimes we have friends and community members that we celebrate with as well. And some of them are like-minded, many of them. Most of them like-minded Christians. But sometimes there are people who don’t have a biblical worldview that we are involved with at Thanksgiving and other times, Christmas and things. And it really creates a neat opportunity for them to see what we do, what our Christian traditions are, and to talk about why we do it and what God has done. And so just neat opportunity we’re talking about today. But another thing, as you’re getting together with people, whether they’re coming to your house or you’re going to theirs Christmas time, Thanksgiving time, new Year’s, maybe you’ll celebrate Hanukkah. All these things are a great time to rub shoulders with people and to pray about it.

Isaac Crockett:   Lord, how can I go in and to encourage these people, whether it’s another Christian or somebody who’s not saved, what can I do to encourage them? And one of the things I’ve asked you to consider in partnering with us here at Stand in the Gap Media is to share a little bit about our ministry. If you listen to us regularly, if you’re involved with some of the resources, we have to share those with others. We were just talking with a sharp young couple that does a lot of neat music things at the beginning of the program, Zach and Maggie, and we were with them and a number of other great friends in Nashville just a couple of months ago at the sing conference. And one of the things that we noticed there was that a lot of people were interested in our ministry and they were downloading our Stand in the Gap app.

Isaac Crockett:   In fact, our number of downloads on the app the month that we were in Nashville, we were only there for a few days, but it went up by I think like 30%. And I would ask you if you haven’t already downloaded that app and you have a smartphone or an iPad or something like that to download that app and then show that. I have found that is the easiest way to show Stand in the Gap media offers is to show that to people. It has all of our video and audio files, and it has podcasts Q and A transcripts right there at the tip of your fingers. If you don’t know how to do it, maybe ask one of your younger relatives or friends to help you download it. But I would love to see during the Thanksgiving time to see our app go up another 30% or maybe even a hundred percent increase in downloads on our app because of you who are listening, using it and sharing it with others, getting others to be able to listen to it right through their phones or their iPads.

Isaac Crockett:   Just an awesome opportunity to do that. But Sam, I want to go back. We were talking earlier with Zach and Maggie and they’re very involved with Getty Music as well as their own music. And there’s going to be these amazing Christmas shows with Getty Music starting on my birthday November 30th and kind of culminating in the States on November 16th on Keith Getty’s birthday. He’s turning 50 years old, they’re celebrating their 10th anniversary of doing the Christmas program at Carnegie Hall. My family, we’re planning on being there with them. They’ve invited us to come and be there, and actually we’re going to have the name stand in the Gap media and our code to scan to get to our website and things should be in the Christmas Carol Hymnal type of thing. They’re putting out little a brochure thing they’re putting out. So we’re looking forward to that.

Isaac Crockett:   But Zach was talking about just that special worship feature of Christmas carols, and this is something Keith Getty talks about a lot. And Sam, you and I talk about a lot the importance of hymns. I mean, the Bible tells us to speak to one another in Psalms and hymns and spiritual songs and to make melody in our hearts and to the Lord. But sometimes some churches have kind of gotten away from some of these hymns and there’s a reason why the hymns have lasted so long. It’s because the doctrine is just so amazing and they’re usually easy to sing. And Christmas hymns or carols especially are things that are easy to remember and these great doctrines about the Jesus Christ being deity, putting on flesh, the union, we have to God through Christ, all these doctrines come out in these carols or hymns. And so it’s just an amazing time to use these opportunities to help others.

Isaac Crockett:   So Sam, as busy as it gets at Christmas time, what is some advice you might give Christian families to help their church? Because church time can be so busy. I know some pastors, they see a lot of visitors come to their church in a lot of cases, churches like mine, we see a lot of people leaving the area to go visit other people. And so we don’t have a lot going on. It feels kind of sad and lonely. But Sam, as we get into Christmas time and the holiday season is kind of ramping up, what are some things that Christian families might think of doing to help their church during this busy time of year?

Sam Rohrer:       Well, Isaac, you asked me that question, but I could turn around and ask you as a pastor who’s been in that position for a long time. But one thing, and maybe I will ask you that, but one of the things I think is that because there are so many people traveling from a church family perspective and when we’re in Christmas time, it’s a giving, it’s a mentality of giving. And I hope it’s a giving mentality, not a getting mentality, but the giving mentality is a perfect time to look around the church family. And a lot of churches, if they’re really vibrant, they are probably already are noting those who have needs the widows of the church, the single moms as an example, or perhaps someone who has lost a job and has a need. That kind of help should be going on always anyways. But Christmas is a great time that if that’s not, or even if it is, to double up on it and to look for those within the body of Christ at local church in order to minister.

Sam Rohrer:       And that can be as easy as going over and visiting someone and just giving of sometime and concern and praying with them doesn’t have to be taking a gift necessarily. Sometimes it can be just that. But I think of just the shifting in that time of giving. When we think about what God has given to us through Jesus Christ, God so loved the world that he gave. If we just think of that and say, we’re all right, if I as a believer scripture says, we are known by our love, for the brethren to just simply back up and say, right, how am I doing that? What kind of a job am I doing? And think of ways that I can with my family, by myself, if that’s the only one that’s in the family or taking children if they’re of that and go and do things as a gift in that mentality, that is a perfect thing. And that helps the body of Christ in so many different ways. That’s just one way first comes to my mind.

Isaac Crockett:   I love that, Sam. I remember growing up, my dad loved Thanksgiving and Christmas, all of these things. He would really have a lot of neat traditions, but he also loved inviting the widows and widowers and people like that from our church over to do things with us as a family. And now that my dad has passed away, it is hard. It’s hard for my mom. There are many families who have a big hole in their heart At Christmas time, I think of a family who just lost their young daughter. I think she’s 19 or 20 years old, college Christian college student, had a peanut allergy and ended up dying. And it’s going to be really, really hard for them. Some people in my church have lost a spouse this year. It’s going to be really hard for them. And sometimes the rest of the world just kind of seems to be going on as busy as ever.

Isaac Crockett:   And it’s good for us to look for those people that we can minister to. And similarly to that, Sam, you’ve been talking a lot this week about biblical worldview, everything from your talk on Monday to even yesterday’s Thursday program, the kind of tricky new Marxism that’s creeping in. We will be talking with people probably likely at Christmas or Thanksgiving or something in between that have a very different worldview than us, maybe very different political views than us. What can we do to try to help people and to be a good godly influence even during this time?

Sam Rohrer:       Well, Isaac, one is just the communication of a godly attitude, and that is one we’ve already talked about. What is a godly attitude? Well, it’s one that is like Christ. It does involve that attitude of gratitude, the attitude of gratitude, the Thanksgiving attitude where we are rather than complaining. And when we are with family or with friends and we leave and they remember about us that we complained. That’s not a Christian testimony. We should think about the attitude and communicating an attitude of thankfulness, of gratefulness always to God because that puts the attention not on us, but on God, which then allows the conversation in some cases, depending upon who he may be with for them to say, how can you be thankful in a time like this? Or How can you have joy in a time like this? So one way is being grateful, demonstrating God’s attitude and then all that.

Sam Rohrer:       And then secondly, the idea of God being the focus, but then others being the focus think of giving rather than getting. And so if we communicate that and demonstrate it, Isaac, I mean just those simple things will transform a holiday, H-O-L-I-D-A-Y-H-O-L-Y-D-A-Y-A holy day and will permit the focus to go to God, will encourage a conversation with others. Whereas the scripture says, if we do that, they will say to us, give us the reason for the hope that is within you. And we say, oh, let me tell you about it. Jesus, Jesus Christ. And that then opens up the door. We are in an age of great need. People are confused. We’re in an age of deception. Most people, unless they’re anchored on the word of God with a developed biblical worldview relationship in Christ, they don’t have any answers. Well, if we just go there, attitude of gratefulness and an attitude of giving rather than getting it opens up all kinds of doors that would change everything.

Isaac Crockett:   You’re right. It would literally turn the world upside down throughout the Bible. Jesus and others tell us, let not your good be evil spoken of. In other words, people may not agree with our worldview. They may disagree with us politically, but they’re such nice people. They’re so kind to me. Why are they like that? We have more to talk about, Sam, a few more questions to fit in right here on Standing the Gap today. Well welcome back to the last part of our Friday program. And Sam and I have been talking about using our biblical worldview during the holiday season to affect others, to impact others for what is right, what is true, and ultimately for Jesus Christ and the glory of the kingdom of God. We started out talking with Zach and Maggie about their music and the Getty music programs that they’re involved with that are just going to be absolutely phenomenal, Lord willing this year.

Isaac Crockett:   And in fact, I’ve been texting with them in between our breaks right now, looking at some opportunities to get together with them at different times on their tour. But Sam, you were saying something about our outlook. If we have a biblical worldview, we have the mind of Christ, and it’s this mindset of what can I do for the glory of God and for the good of others, not can I get and what can I have for myself? And when you were describing that, Sam, what came to my mind was Charles Dickens and his story, A Christmas Carol Dickens was a deeply devout Christian with a biblical worldview. He lived in the Victorian era over in England, and he was a reformer. He was an outside the box guy who was inside of the box of the gospel, as you were saying earlier, but outside of the box of his culture.

Isaac Crockett:   And he saw that there were so many people in that culture that were using others to get things instead of using things to help others. They were abusing and using people to get things for themselves. And that’s where he came up with the character of Scrooge. And you kind of juxtapose this character of Scrooge that we still use that word today as an old miserly person. And you compare that with Tiny Tim and Bob Cratchit and them doing good even to their enemy, them doing the Christ-like things and enjoying the celebration of the birth of Christ. And that difference that we see at the end of the story then when Scrooge gets changed and really is a sign of what we would call salvation when we come to know Jesus Christ personally and would that we all as Christians could be like that impacting, not that everybody has a scrooge in their life, but we all have people that we disagree with that don’t get the biblical worldview that we have if we could be that influence on them. Sam, back to what you’ve been talking about this week, about just the right philosophy, the right worldview. You started this week on Monday talking about this notion of following your heart, and it’s in so many of the modern Christmas movies, not the older ones, some of the older ones actually get it right, like a Christmas carol, but the modern ones, what can we do? How can we use opportunities even watching these movies with our children or grandchildren? How can we make it an opportunity to teach them truth in these situations?

Sam Rohrer:       Isaac, I think the first thing is it’s very difficult, if not impossible, to actually lead others too. And we’re talking a biblical worldview, a mind of Christ, put it that way, or to be thinking inside the biblical box, if you want to put it that way, but bringing an approach to life, it’s nearly impossible to encourage others or to teach others, be it friends or neighbors or children or grandchildren, unless we’ve already determined to be there ourselves and know what it means. Unless I have found water, I can’t lead anybody to water if they’re thirsty, if they’re hungry, I can’t lead them to food unless I know where there is food to be found. And that really is to me a way that I look at this whole thing. But what holidays, holidays do, events of any type where there is a cultural focus, a looking such as these Thanksgiving, Christmas we’re talking about here right now, we have to have established in our own mind what I am going to do relative to those days, those events.

Sam Rohrer:       Am I going to think, as we’ve talked about with an attitude of gratitude, am I going to stop myself and ask the Lord, stop me Lord, from complaining, I don’t want to be unthankful as an example if I have not gone there first. It’s very tough to really challenge someone else or encourage someone else genuinely. So that’s first thing. We have to determine where we need to be individually and set about those decisions to be there ourselves. Then it’s a matter of then putting into effect. And these holidays are great because whether like you say watching Christmas movies or going to watch them or songs or whatever, then to think, well, what am I hearing? How does it align? And that’s why we did the program on Monday. Unfollow your heart because it is out there everywhere. But the logical question is to stop and say, well, but is that what the Lord would have us to do?

Sam Rohrer:       And what does the Bible say for instance about our heart? Well, it’s deceitful, wicked above all things desperately wicked, so you can’t go there. But the Bible does say that we can develop a heart that is after God by desiring those things that God says to desire to fear God, keep his commandments. David had a perfect heart. The Lord said, Ezra set his heart on following God’s law. So there are things that we can do to develop our heart so that our heart can be an alignment, as an example, with what God wants. So again, we have to determine for ourselves, this is where I want to be. I want to be like Christ. Secondly, I want to do what God has told me to do, and that is to be a witness to others. If I’m a parent, that definitely means my children and my grandchildren, but be thinking opportunity to take what we see and compare it to that which God says, and from that becomes naturally flowing, conversations that can allow us to take and direct that conversation and others to the Lord, which who alone should receive the glory and to others rather than ourselves.

Sam Rohrer:       That’s a convoluted kind of an answer, but that’s how I think. It’s a process. It’s not just a singular point in time decision.

Isaac Crockett:   Well, you’re talking there being a genuine Christian, being the person you want to be, not being the hypocrite. And I’ve noticed in my life that that’s what I need to do. I need to put the good things in my life and avoid the bad things like Jesus taught us to pray, lead us not into temptation. And when we have it, then to share that with others, I’m thinking of even my children, we use BJU press curriculum with them and they ask these questions. They notice stuff they’ve been taught. Even my youngest is nine, but for years he’ll bring things up and say, Hey, my teacher was talking about that, and in warning of that sort of philosophy or warning of that thing. And it’s so cool that they think about that and can converse about it. The other thing with them is I’ve never had them come up to me.

Isaac Crockett:   So many people talk about some of these secular music artists, whatever. Oh, my kids are listening to Taylor Swift and I wish they wouldn’t or whatever. We’ve tried to fill our kids with good things. So hey, here, listen to some of this fun stuff from Zach and Maggie. Hey, let’s listen to Getty worship music. Hey, let’s listen to this. Let’s listen to that. Let’s watch Andy Griffith in the old morality that there was back then instead of some of the modern things and filling our lives up, our families up, whether it’s our children or grandchildren or friends with good things can help prevent us from being tempted and leading us into temptation. So, so many things, Sam, we’re already at the end of the program. I’ve had more questions to ask you that we ran out of time for, but I’d love to ask you to close us in prayer and maybe any final quick comments before you do that.

Sam Rohrer:       Well, comments, Isaac, is we are what we think our actions are a result of our choices. And that all comes back to, all right, am I going to fear God and keep his commandments? If I do and I set that as the objective, then I’m on the right track. It’s a choice and we’ll just leave it there. Heavenly Father, thank you so much, Lord, that you have given us your word. You’ve told us how to think. You have demonstrated in the son of your son Jesus Christ, the attitude of servanthood and of giving, manifesting what it really means. And I pray this time of year that we would demonstrate our gratefulness and we would demonstrate our love for others. As you have demonstrated your love for us. We pray in Jesus’ name. Amen.

Isaac Crockett:   Amen. Amen. Well, thank you for listening to us today. We’re just a couple of weeks away from Thanksgiving, and already people are putting up Christmas lights and Christmas music and shopping. But let’s think about the Lord and let’s focus on him this holiday season, Thanksgiving, Christmas, and everything else in between. Thank you for listening. Until next time, continue to stand in the gap for truth, wherever you are.