America 2025: At War with Itself?

America 2025: At War with Itself?

July 31, 2025

Host: Hon. Sam Rohrer

Guest: David New

Note: This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program aired on 7/31/25. To listen to the podcast, click HERE.

Disclaimer: While reasonable efforts have been made to provide an accurate transcription, the following is a representation of a mechanical transcription and as such, may not be a word for word transcript. Please listen to the audio version for any questions concerning the following dialogue.

Sam Rohrer:

Hello and welcome to Stand in the Gap Today, where we here by God’s Grace, share a considered and biblical worldview perspective on selected important headline news. I say selected because we don’t cover everything. Obviously that’s impossible to do. But we do choose things as best we can that are pertinent, that are important to those who fear God and or those issues that may be trending. Maybe that’s a headline item like the item today, but one that impacts all of those with eyes to see, in ears to hear. Now every other week, we specifically focus our attention here to some matter connected to our constitution. And in so doing some pertinent aspect of American history, my recurring guest again today who’s always with us on this program and we’ve done this together for many years now, is constitutional attorney, author and speaker David New. Now the focus of today’s program surrounds a question that is routinely, and I’m going to say it’s very routinely, you’ll see in a minute, and it’s increasingly raised by, well historians from that perspective, academics, patriots, and I’m going to say all observant Americans from all quarters and it’s this is America at war with itself?

Are we in a civil war? Now, I know many have predicted that a literal kinetic, physical, civil war is coming to America and some of that can just be put to the side as fear tactics. But can it be said that we are in a civil war at least of types right now, or are we perhaps in the early stages of a civil war? Now these are interesting, but they’re very ominous questions about our America, but they should be asked, so we’re asking it today. Of course, no one in their right mind wants a civil war, but is it possible that we’re already there? Now, when I did a quick internet search with the phrase America at war with itself, I found dozens of articles or commentaries from various media sources right to left academicians, to politicians and to others saying effectively the same thing.

America is at war with itself and they ranged primarily beginning in well 2022 and then there were more 20 23, 20 24, and even more in 2025 saying the same thing. So it’s not a unique thought. So this consideration I’m going to suggest is very real and of course it demands serious consideration, but receiving very little attention and therefore any solution, all sides seem to only bear down with further division and hatred, name calling belittling of others and in general doing all the things that drive people further apart. So in this program today, we’ll consider where we are, how we got here and the way back. If our people today, our culture and our political leaders will humble themselves and do so. So there is a solution, but the title I’ve chosen to frame today’s conversation is simply This America 2025 at war with itself. And with that, David New welcome back to the program. Good to have you back again.

David New:

It’s nice to be with you and blessings to everyone today.

Sam Rohrer:

David, I know you’ve given a lot of thought to the condition, what I just tried to lay out here in which America finds herself today divided and being further divided, but it didn’t used to be this way, did it?

David New:

No. In fact, at one time the Democrat, one of the big advantages that the United States had over Europe is that the political spectrum was much more narrow here. Europe had a much wider political spectrum from communists to capitalists and everything in between Here, it was pretty narrow. The differences between Republicans and Democrats was fairly narrow. Republicans might spend a hundred billion dollars on defense. Democrats would spend maybe 80 billion. I mean, it was that type of thing. The other thing that we’ve, but that’s no longer true. I mean the differences between the Republican party and the Democrat party is very bad and very sad. You can just look at this Zoran, ma’am, Dini individual. If he’s the face of the future for the other party, we’re all in big trouble.

Sam Rohrer:

Alright, so build on that a little bit. It didn’t used to be that way, and I think those listening to the program would remember a time when one side would reach out and not necessarily embrace, but at least shake hands with the other side from a political perspective as we would view what happens in Congress and all that. What is there now seems to have spread almost like a cancer. Share with us some of your concerns about the actual climate of today and if you would describe, or I’m going to say quantify where you believe we actually are and then the next segment, then we will further build out about how we got here. But diagnose, where are we really from your perspective?

David New:

Well, you can tell how deeply in trouble we are because there used to be at one time a rule in this country where Americans divided and where there was division, it ended at the border. If you went overseas, you lightened up on your opponent’s back home. That rule is gone. There are so many ways that we are not united. You take how things used to be like President Ronald Reagan and speaker Tip O’Neill, both Irish, they were the best of friends. They shared jokes together, they had a wonderful time, they liked each other. They were different parties and had different agendas, but they were very civil and friendly. Can you imagine anybody like Chuck Schumer or this speaker of the house or the minority leader in the house having a time of fellowship with President Trump? Never, nothing like that. The comradery is not there.

Sam Rohrer:

Okay, and ladies and gentlemen mean a logical question is what has contributed to that? Because I think David, what you just said is very real. Who can imagine such a thing? Because it seems that the sides have become so drawn, the lines drawn and almost vindictive of one and the other where all this stuff unfolding right now about former President Obama possibly going to jail. Those are the kind of things that are out there and being prosecuted. And it appears one side is using their opportunities in office to get back at a political opponent. Well, what does that produce? Well, so anyways, ladies, we’re but out of time. But you get the idea. Very difficult to come into agreement on things that are necessary for our country when there are positions that are so widely disparate as to what is our country, who are we, where are we going, and all of the priorities that need to come about that requires unity and we can see how much we do not have.

So with that mind, with that thought in mind, we’ll continue to come back in the next segment and identify at least some of those things that have contributed to the cause of America’s current disunity. If you’re just joining us, welcome aboard Today as our bimonthly emphasis. We do it twice a month at least most of the time. We’ve done that for many, many years now and focus on some matter of cultural trending or headline news that revolves around and touches directly on our constitution as our highest, I’m going to say highest form of civil law. And then within that then we bring together American history. And so we’re doing that today. And my guest as always in all these programs we’ve done from the very beginning is constitutional attorney David New. Now today our theme is this America 2025 at war with Itself. That’s a question mark and we talked about that in the last segment, but moving in, we’ll talk about the cause, but identifying the health back up a little bit and just think from a national perspective, identifying the health of any given nation is, I’m going to say frequently in the eyes of the beholder.

In other words, Monday morning, corny backing is always easier than when you’re right in the middle. For instance, whether it be Israel of Old, where we have that history right from the pages of scripture or the empires now passed of Babylon or Greece or Rome or the Ottoman Empire or the most recent empire, the British Empire, all were displaying evidences of sickness and rotting from within, mostly fueled by pride following a time of military success and physical prosperity. But to the political leaders and most citizens in those days, they continued to live lives of ease and they fell into denial about all of the evidences of national and cultural demise and sickness that was occurring around them because they couldn’t see it. Then others from the outside could. History allows us to very clearly see it, but I’m going to suggest that such is the case today in the modern American empire.

And it’s interesting ladies and gentlemen, if you are watching news from around the world, what people are saying, how many times that the word American empire is being used because literally that’s what we have. If you back up and you look at it, it’s a global reach and we have, but we’ve effectively had that. We’ve moved into it effectively since the military victories following World War II. But national sickness always includes disunity. You can identify it, but few want to actually consider do anything about it because it’s hard. Anyways, that brings us to how do we get to where we are now, David, a divided nation always has more than one cause. There are generally multiple causes, but when it comes to the more visible area of public discourse and the tone of communications, in your opinion, what has caused the current tone of communications to become? So I’m going to use the word toxic.

David New:

Well, you can see how toxic it is. January 6th was inexcusable. President Trump wanted to go to the Congress after his speech and the Secret Service would not let him go. Had he been there, he could have controlled the crowd. They never would’ve busted in and attacked the police and attacked the Capitol, but without anybody like him there. This was horrible. And this is mega people attacking the police. And then you’ve got 700 US marines in LA to protect the ice people who are trying to enforce the law. Then you’ve got quite a few elected officials within the Democrat party who are publicly saying that President Trump does not intend to have an election occur in 2028. This is unbelievable and a lot of people are believing it that he does not intend to permit that, which is crazy.

There are many, many things that are causing what’s happening today, but there are at least three things. Number one is secularism. Number two is the rejection of the US Constitution. Number three is the government itself. There’s nothing that divides America more than government. The government is the great divider. And the reason why that’s true is because we are asking the government to do all kinds of things. It was not designed to do so secularism that basically replaced God as the center of gravity for the nation. The secular state denies God has nothing to do with American liberty, nothing to do with the US Constitution. And of course the problem with the secular state, since they believe in evolution, since they believe that life on this planet is a result of an accident, there is no such thing as a moral standard. The secular, a lot of people don’t know, the secular state does not have a moral foundation.

And to prove that, you read some of the books that these people write, these secularists and it’s very interesting. They’re trying to figure out what the moral foundation is. There’s one book by Alan Dershowitz, very intelligent lawyer, knows the Constitution better than I will ever know it. One of his books is Rights from Wrongs as Secular Theory for the Origin of Rights. Again, rights from wrongs as Secular theory for the Origin of Rights. You and I believe God is the standard for what is right or wrong. He has to write a whole book to try to find one. Then it’s the rejection of the US Constitution. The Constitution is not very popular. This gentleman is Zohran Mamdani.

The fact that he has the nomination and is leading in the polls in New York City tells you what people think of the US Constitution because he can’t do all the things he wants to do without destroying, reversing, nullifying the US Constitution. He can’t do those things. The third thing is the government is the divider. What you’ve got is you’ve got people on the left and people on the right both trying to get control of the government so they can impose their philosophy and theories on the rest of the nation. The government of the United States is supposed to be a limited government where the people don’t look to the government for its solutions where the government does not provide everything you possibly could deed. That’s not the role of the government. You take a look at your preamble to the US Constitution and you could see one of the purposes of the US Constitution is to make a more perfect union. So there are a lot of reasons why this country is going south and going south fast, and if we don’t reverse it, we’re getting balkanized already and it’s going to get worse.

Sam Rohrer:

Alright, and David, in the midst of that, let’s stay on this and we will come up with some solutions and more as we approach here, but predating our organic documents of law, the Mayflower Compact, the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights became part of it. All of that predated that was a common or a enough view of God and as you cited, as the source of rights, as our creator and all of those things that view that worldview was sufficiently strong that it caused people to agree on that. And then from that came the Constitution and then the oath that all people I’ve taken it nine times, would take that oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States, thinking that if every person would support that document, honestly it would result in unity. So in reality, David, the constitutional oath is not keeping everybody together. Now I have an answer to this, but is it the Constitution or is it a problem of people taking the oath?

David New:

It’s a problem. People taking the oath, they don’t like the Constitution, especially the Secularist because what the secularists believe is, they believe government is the solution to the problems of the world. So they fundamentally believe in a big brother state. They fundamentally believe in an Orwellian society where the government takes care of you for everything. In fact, we’re going to open up grocery stores for you. If you can’t afford your food, the government is going to have its own grocery stores and you can go in and get what you need. Our constitution does not allow that kind of junk. It is supposed to be a limited government. So unless the philosophy of the US Constitution is respected, we’re in big trouble.

Sam Rohrer:

And ladies and gentlemen, as David said, and we’ve talked about so many other times on this program, pragmatism, when it becomes the rule and the guiding foundation of making decisions, laws, and all well handing out money, promising money, getting grants, pursuing some kind of personal gain being influenced by the money given by big donors. Well that becomes a problem that moves everybody from the constitutional oath. And don’t we see that on both sides, not limited to the Democrats, it’s on both sides because of this id. When we come back, we’re going to talk about identifying some common denominators for unity. Alright, so here’s a question as we talk about, and again, our theme if you’re just joining us, is America 2025 at war with itself. Well, in the first segment, David New, my guest and I discussed the aspect of that question and how relevant it is, but how many people have been for quite a number of years been asking that same question and coming to the conclusion know that we are at war with ourselves.

And the last segment tried to identify some of the causes that have brought us to the point which really truly, we are at a place far different than we were at the beginning of last century, and certainly at the beginning of our country when we moved from the control of being under Britain to a new nation. But it brings up this question, how one moves from division to unity. It is a critical consideration. How does that occur? The appearance of agreement I’m going to suggest such as in, well, for instance, North Korea or China. When you see the people marching in line together, it would appear to be unity. But is that the same yet within a nation such as our nation America, unity meaning by definition this is what it means, the state of being one or an agreement. I’m going to suggest even as David said in the last segment at the very beginning, and as they stand in the gap minute, in that last segment stated about William Penn, it was this independent republic was required upon people voluntarily, key, voluntarily, effectively believing in and agreeing to God’s 10 commandments of moral law.

So there was an agreement. Okay, so unity though may be shallow or it may be deep depending. Okay, David, in your considerations of America, which is clearly at war with itself, for all the reasons that we’ve cited and you cited, what are your recommendations toward perhaps achieving unity that might save America from a violent, kinetic, physical civil war?

David New:

This country needs to give back to the kind of politicians we used to have. You take for example, Sam Nunn, a Democrat from Georgia. He was a statesman. Henry Jackson of Washington State, a Democrat statesman, Edward Dirkson of Illinois. Statesman a Republican. That’s the kind of political leaders we need. What have we got now? Well, president Trump is Hitler. I mean that comment is so stupid. It shows that the individual who makes these comments doesn’t know anything about Hitler for sure. So we need to go back to those things that made us great. Now, people forget that when the Constitution was written, this country was deeply divided like it is today. The states were in danger of going to war against each other. The economy was an absolute mess. The American military wanted George Washington to become a king because Congress didn’t pay their soldiers. So what was the solution?

It was the US Constitution. The preamble tells you everything you need to know. We the people of the United States in order to form a more perfect union, established justice, ensure domestic tranquility. Now, those who don’t like the Constitution claims, that phrase refers to the President putting down slave revolts. I do not accept that interpretation. Provide for the common events, promote the general welfare. Now, when it says general welfare in the preamble, it does not mean government handouts. It doesn’t mean welfare. It means that the government should act in the interest of the whole population. And then there’s that last phrase that’s very important in the Constitution and secures the blessings of liberty. Now when you see that word, liberty, ladies and gentlemen, you can put next to it the word religion, the word liberty for the first time in the English language appears in the Holy Bible.

That’s where the word liberty first appears is in English, in the Holy Bible. So when it says blessings of liberty, you could really say and secure the blessings of religion to ourselves and our posterity. So the solution is to get back to the Constitution, but it doesn’t end there. There is a unity amendment in the Bill of Rights. It’s called the 10th Amendment. When was the last time anybody cared what the 10th Amendment had to say? That amendment gives the states the central powers of government except for a few items that they yield to the federal government. Right now, the federal government is the principal government before the Civil War and before the corruption of the 14th Amendment, which is a good amendment. The states where the principle powers of government. We need to get back to having the states be the principle powers of government except for things like national defense and things like that that are common to all 50 states.

So we need to get back to the Constitution. We need to have a renaissance of the Constitution in this country. If we do that, we will come back together. Mathematics is the key. Mathematics tells us how to unite America. You take different fractions, different numbers of fractions. When you want to find out what they all add up to these different fractions, what do you first have to do? You have to find the common denominator. Then you can combine and unite the fractions and see what they add up to. This is what the Constitution can do for us.

Sam Rohrer:

Okay, David? And I think that is excellent and in some degree the fractional aspect that you’re talking about. We can parlay that and understand clearly when we look at European nations, Israel who have parliamentary form of governments because they have a dozen different entities and can they put together coalition? That’s exactly what has to happen to have a unity government, which is what Israel calls theirs. That’s an example, a unity government. It just means you have 51% in agreement it you a majority. But in our country, the Bill of Rights, the constitution becomes our highest civil law. So let’s go there. In the next segment we’re going to build out how religion and define that more connects into that. But just staying on this aspect here, to what degree can, for instance, the Constitution and or the Bill of Rights bring America together again? In other words, how much power do they have? Well, anyways, bill it out. What do you think?

David New:

The way the Constitution can do it is that when we have different parties, different interest groups transacting political business together, the constitution will lay out the rules for how to conduct the transaction. Giving the states more power that they should have under the 10th Amendment to the Bill of Rights is a secret key. It is the 10th Amendment is the unity Amendment of America. That is one of the keys to bring this country back together is to let the states go their own little merry way on certain subjects. But one of the institutions, one of the institutions that is blocking that a big time for example, is the US Supreme Court. Because they have done a lot of things. They introduced abortion, they made homosexuality, legal. Maybe not everybody agrees with that. I don’t. I think I don’t believe that homosexuality is the way to go, but I certainly don’t believe in gay marriage and the population of this country does not believe that basically.

Sam Rohrer:

Okay, David,

David New:

Because there are about 30 votes,

Sam Rohrer:

30 state

David New:

Votes that voted against it.

Sam Rohrer:

Okay, David, I want you to be able to get this answer in here. So can the Bill of Rights alone and or the Constitution alone bring America back together again? What headwinds do you see fighting against it? So answer those two together.

David New:

No, the Constitution by itself cannot do it. We’ve got a lot of headwinds against us. For one thing, one of the most important common denominators in the United States that helped America stay together was the institution of marriage. Well, the Supreme Court has done great damage to the institution of marriage. Now, I will admit that the heterosexual community did more damage or a lot of damage or just as much damage to the institution of marriage by these no fault divorce laws and all the kind of screwy ways that marriage was handled. Making liberal leave on divorce easy, but making same sex marriage basically pivot one American against another. And the court should not do that. That should be decided at the state level. Another problem are the public schools. They are against us in many ways, big time because they have become indoctrination centers. They have become left-wing factories. Not all of them, but too many have gone bad. They’re doing bad things.

Sam Rohrer:

Okay, and we’re out of time here, ladies and gentlemen. You get the idea. There’s a number of institutional headwinds as David talking about and other things that are fighting against unity. But when we come back, we’re going to try and conclude with saying, all right, is there something that will unify The answer is yes, and we’ll talk about that. Well, before we get into our final segment, just want to thank all of you for being on board with us today and to thank those of you who are praying along with us for this program and this ministry, and not just this program, but our Stand in the Gap weekend program, the minute program and our TV as well. Now that God has taken and placed not just all across this country, but in some countries overseas, that is not an accident that’s of God’s doing.

But could I ask you to sow into that expansion? Could I ask you to pray into that with us? Summertime, obviously are always times when ministries who depend upon listeners’ gifts to continue, which ours is one of those that many times summers get busy and I know the inflationary presses that are upon us. All that is a clear challenge. But can I ask you in the middle of that, don’t neglect sowing into what God is doing with this program, particularly if you have benefit or are benefiting. It’s something that you can do and it’s something that we need to have done. So let me just leave it there. But stay on the gap radio.com or on our app Stand in the Gap. You can give either one of those places and communicate as well. And I trust that you’ll do that. Alright? Now, as far as lasting unifier, let’s put it that way.

We said in the last segment that unity in a country, our country specifically we’re talking, it’s not possible that the Constitution alone or that the Bill of Rights alone or that the Declaration of Independence as documents alone can bring unity to this country. Why is that? There was something that preceded all of those documents. Now being in agreement, unity is required for unity to exist. And we know that. I mean, be it as a couple in a marriage or partners in a business or members of a family or a church or broadening it to citizens of a nation. Alright? In all cases, total agreement on all things, well, that’s not going to happen. You don’t have to be agreed on all things, but agreement on the essentials is demanded. And when these are in place, unity and agreement can be the result. Now, without these division, which leads to civil war, and then war broadly is the result.

So what are the essentials? Okay, David, from an objective perspective, and by definition I’m just going to throw this into the mix here, by definition a nation, because we’re talking about our nation, any nation, but our nation, there are three essentials, which if any one of them are absent, a nation by definition cannot long endure. And that is this the definition of a nation. It includes common borders, includes a common language and a common religion, which is we talked about in the last segment. Now for a long time in our nation, all three of these were in place. But I’m going to suggest in reality, none in my opinion are solidly in place today. Your comments on that,

David New:

Ladies and gentlemen, when you take two people or a group of people, and they are all different languages and they cannot speak to each other, they can’t communicate at all. But when they go to church and worship the Lord Jesus Christ, there is a bond more powerful than their family members. You take Pastor Gary Doll, who’s very much involved with missionary work. He can tell you the power of faith in God, which even transcends different languages. Now, the US Constitution and the Christian religion flow in the same river. If you want a powerful Constitution, you need a powerful Christian religion. If you want to have a powerful Christian religion, your Constitution is a definite prop to make that possible. It was the Christian America that made the Constitution possible. Secularists would never in a million years write our US Constitution. They gave lip service to it saying they would, but they don’t because they reject the fundamental policy of the US Constitution.

They believe in government. The US Constitution says there should be limited government. Here’s a wonderful quote to show you how this country was made. At one time in 1908, Congressman John Adair of Indiana said this, Christianity destroys the walls that separate class from class and nation. From nation. It drives out hatred, envy, malice. It calls it love charity benevolence. If all nations were Christian nations, what a splendid world this would be. The dark clouds of bitterness, contention and war would be carried away and all differences would be settled on Christian principles by Christian people. Congressman John Adair of Indiana 1908. That’s what the Constitution makes possible. That’s how it supports Christianity. That’s why the Christian America ratified it.

Sam Rohrer:

Alright, I didn’t know how far you were going to go there, so I hesitated just a minute. But that’s the bottom line, ladies and gentlemen, just about at the end. But on this program we talk extensively about worldview. So if you’ve listened to us, you understand that. And we present a biblical worldview. Now, what David you just said is a biblical worldview. So these definitions, these elements of a nation, common borders, okay? We understand what’s going on with that and how our borders have not been open. Common language, we know that split everything is being taught in our schools. Some schools like Philadelphia, I think they have had 20 languages. They teach in common religion, it’s view of God. But in our nation, it was a Judeo-Christian view of God and an adherence to the 10 Commandments. Moral law, which rose above civil law, which that view there what I just described, allowed those signers of the Declaration of Independence to sign.

So those who voted for the Constitution to do that. But if you take out that worldview and you replace it with what David described earlier as a humanistic worldview where there is no God, no moral foundation, well then the Constitution and the Bill of Rights mean nothing in reality. Is that not what we see? And if God is not there before whom, and oath is given, well who cares if you break it? If you’re not accountable to God, who cares. So what do we need? We need return to God. We need return to God, a fear of God and obedience to his commands. David, we have only about 30 seconds left. Close in prayer. Please would you do

David New:

Dear Father, in Jesus name, we thank thee for thy blessed son. We thank thee for the blood of the land that can cleanse us from sin. And Father, we pray for America that this country can come together with a common denominator of faith in God and Jesus Christ. We want our constitution to be honored. God bless this country. In Jesus’ name,

Sam Rohrer:

Amen. Amen. Amen. Thank you David for being on board today. Ladies and gentlemen. I hope that you’ve appreciated this program. Go back and listen to it again. A lot of information in here. Perhaps sharing it with a friend would be good for them as well. We have issues, but we do have a resolve and that is coming in agreement with God. That’s how we preserve this nation and when we as people return to God, I pray that that would be the case. Well, thanks for being with us again, and the Lord willing, we will be back here tomorrow with you right here on Stand In the Gap Today.