Surrounded and Under Attack: Health Freedom in America
August 21, 2025
Host: Hon. Sam Rohrer
Guest: Mark Lerner
Note: This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program aired on 8/21/25. To listen to the podcast, click HERE.
Disclaimer: While reasonable efforts have been made to provide an accurate transcription, the following is a representation of a mechanical transcription and as such, may not be a word for word transcript. Please listen to the audio version for any questions concerning the following dialogue.
Sam Rohrer:
Hello and welcome to this Thursday edition of Stand in the Gap. Today. Yesterday at the close of this program I mentioned that today I was going to focus on an area that touches not only every one of you listening to me right now, but frankly involves literally every person around the whole world. And that one thing that touches all of us is technology, technology, information and information collection. You put those altogether and you’ve got a real combination combined technology and information with an insatiable appetite for control by billionaire elites in league with, I’m going to say bribed and compromised politicians in a setting of today’s pragmatically run corrupted government because it is around the world and you have the world of today in the nations of today and the America of today. I have for years on previous programs, discussed various aspects of how corrupted government that is, a government that no longer fears God, how a corrupted government is using the tool of technology to shape and control our lives today.
Technologies, well such as data collection, increasing surveillance and monitoring, biometrics, the preparation for total digital currency and now artificial intelligence to analyze all of those streams of information in real time. The undeniable dramatic push of the current Trump administration to publicly promote and fund the rapid growth and implementation of an AI driven society. With the help of such guys anti-God, billionaires, like well like Bill Gates or Sam Ellison of Oracle, or Peter Thiel of Palantir, and of course Elon Musk. All of these hasten the final stages of the biblically prophesied beast system, which ends up in total individual control, A system capable of surveilling, collecting continual information in real time and to do so internationally capable of permitting or denying the everyday necessities of life, such as buying food or traveling or even donating to the local church that was once unexplainable, let alone unimaginable.
But now it’s not only explainable, but the trap that’s been prepared for decades is now literally shutting. That trap is around the world and most people are sadly like a frog in the boiling water or the hot water about to become boiling. It can’t get out. But understanding the reality of these things and how the dots are connected is what I felt necessary to share today. The title I’ve chosen to frame our discussion today here is imminent surveillance and control, connecting the dots of technology, information and biometrics. And my special guest today who is imminently qualified by his background, a leading biometrics expert and a technology insider turned whistleblower, he’s also the co-founder of the Stop Real ID Coalition and Constitutional Alliance. His name is Mark Lerner. He’s been with me before a number of times over the past years, but for transparency sake, I’ve known Mark for a long time since first meeting him when he provided expert testimony before my committee when I was in the Pennsylvania General Assembly and we were pursuing the issues of biometrics back then in the form of real id. Now that being the case with that introduction, mark, welcome to the program and thank you so much for being with us today.
Mark Lerner:
It’s my pleasure to be here, brother Sam.
Sam Rohrer:
Mark, we’ve got a big task before us. You can speak days and you have, and I have as well on this subject, but let’s get right in from your perspective. In one or two sentences, would you state the problem that we are facing and is the concern surrounding these things? We’re talking about legitimate. What is the problem and the concern?
Mark Lerner:
The problem is we have as a society, we focus on the economy. We don’t focus enough on our personal identifiable information such as our names, addresses, social security numbers, bank accounts, all that information and our biometrics, which are measurements of the body fingerprinting, facial recognition. We don’t focus enough on these things. Who’s collecting them? Why are they collecting them and how are they being used?
Sam Rohrer:
Okay, alright, now let’s break out some of these terms. I’d like to set terms, so let’s take a couple of these. How would you and what would you throw into the definition of technology? What are we talking about?
Mark Lerner:
Technology can be things such as what we call the internet of things when we go online. Technology can be in the form of CCTV cameras. It can come fraud cameras, which are used for automatic license plate readers. Basically technology is the ability to do whatever it is we do.
Sam Rohrer:
Okay? We will come back and we’ll build out on that. Ladies and gentlemen, stay with us. So that’s technology. It’s literally anything that you can think of. Internet, iPhones, you carry in your hands, satellites that overhead, GPS that we use from day to day, the cameras that read your plate, all of those kinds of things. Alright, you’ve got the idea. It’s literally anything that is out there collecting information. Now let’s go information and information collection. Give a definition to that, would you mark?
Mark Lerner:
Information collection is anything that pertains to us as individuals. There’s more information collected about us than we realize. A data mining company might have 1500 data points about each of us, where we live, who we live with, how we get on the internet, everything about us, who we use for healthcare information, including most importantly our biometrics, fingerprinting, facial recognition, iris scans, et cetera.
Sam Rohrer:
Okay, so information is very broad and I’m going to go in the next segment, I’m going to ask you just to expand upon that, how broad, but let’s go to the other term. That’s biometrics. You’ve used it many times. What’s the definition of biometrics as we’re using it?
Mark Lerner:
Biometric stands for bio meaning body metric, meaning measurements or number. When we look at it, the constitutional alliance, we look at it as you can say biometric is a unique number for each man. Some people call it the number of man.
Sam Rohrer:
Okay, alright, well then we’ll leave it right there, ladies and gentlemen. So biometrics is an individually identifiable, I want to say it’s a human marker. It’s something that can be observed about you, about me that is unique to you and me. Combine that with information, collecting ways to follow and measure that. And you put that together with technology that connects it all. Now you’ve got a system and that’s what we’re going to talk about here today, these components and how it’s actually being laid out. And then we’re going to go more on ultimately how do we respond to these things because it’s here. Stay with us, we’ll be back. Well if you’re just joining us today, my theme today is this imminent surveillance and control, connecting the dots of technology, information and biometrics. And my special guest is someone who was originally an insider in the area of technology and biometrics and he became a whistleblower.
And I met him years ago when I was in the Pennsylvania house and pursuing investigation on what was coming out of the federal government. That point after 911, an item called real id, which I’ve talked about in this program many times. And Mark in the past has been with me. He testified before our committee on the details of what biometrics was, and that was many years ago. And literally everything that was stated then is all true. And what we see today is these things actually coming into, put it this way, coming into focus, should I say. And so that being the case, I thought putting all these things together because we just cannot escape the fact of how technology and information and all of the things being furthered, so many things being furthered by government itself right now literally around the world makes looking at this subject and connecting the dots important we believed.
So with that being in mind, mark, I mean it’s one of those things where you stated information is power and power is control. And I think that’s a theme that we’re run through this program because that’s what we’re talking about. Technology facilitates the collection and the analysis of information and anybody who holds that information with the sanction of government that holds the sword of authority that Romans 13 talks to us about. That results in power and power is something that all I’m going to say non God-fearing individuals since the human civilization began, have all attempted to take control from that which belongs to God and put in their own hands. And so these are elements that are coming about. Now that being the case, let me get into this as a whistleblower and the technology biometric industry insider as you have been. Let’s talk further about the extent of this information collection that’s a part of the process here.
You have said that information is power and power is control. I state that again when combined with the leaders in modern technology development who so many of them in their own words actually believe that they are God or that they are becoming gods or that we can now do that which have only been reserved for God to do and they have said they desire control over others. So all these things you’re saying is true, but it’s a deadly combination when you put all these together. Now here’s my question is any communication is any communication or digital interaction today in which anyone listening to us right now would be a part that is not subject to collection and being saved, data, housing and then monitored in some way. We could give a list of everything that is, but if, is there anything that escapes this collection process today?
Mark Lerner:
There’s nothing that escapes the collection process. It’s not everything digital alone. It can be used simply walking down the street with the use of biometrics. People will know who you are, where you are, who you’re with, what your motor travel is, but digitally they’ll have access to your social security number, bank account numbers, what charities you get to. What makes it so much worse today is two things. Number one, it’s all being put in one database. And number two, what it tells us in Daniel 12 four, which is in these times, knowledge will increase, which we certainly want to do over the last 20 years.
Sam Rohrer:
Okay, so ladies and gentlemen, that would be the point. Anything that’s generated today, you can almost say without a doubt anything that’s generated. Certainly anything that’s digital. So you speak on your phone, you’re involved on your internet, you put something on Facebook, you do whatever it is, whatever, any kind of digital communication is being monitored and it’s being collected and it’s being housed. But it’s not just that. As Mark said, when you throw in cameras, then other things happen. And I want to go there, mark, on the next part of it because the collection and storage of digital information, ladies and gentlemen, happens on literally everything that provides information.
And I’m going to say most of that is as I’m going to say, point in time information. For instance, doge went in and evaluated and got all of the files of everything sitting in the government databases and all of the departments, and they were all by individual names. Those were records, they were health data gleaned from government mandated health records. For instance in Department of Homeland Security or the Health and Human Services rather. Or then you have a Department of Homeland Security. You have finances in places like Social Security Administration and IRS and yet banking and investment information that flows around. But most of those are point in time including the kinds of information that is put on, well like Facebook, we share about our families and our children or Instagram or internet searches, where we go. Those are point in time information that’s collected.
But Mark, you mentioned the other, I’m going to call real time information where travel and mobility is monitored by camera or satellite or other similar monitoring where the use of biometrics is used. And I went back to your website, Mark, 11 years ago you said this, you said this quote, we have maintained we constitutional alliance and stop real ID coalition of which you founded. You said this, we have maintained that facial recognition is the biometric of choice because it allows for an individual to be identified and tracked in real time without the knowledge or consent of the individual. You then in your article went on to prove that facial recognition biometrics was in real id and you said then that it was then global countries where around the world were collecting this information and that it is global and linkable by governments internationally. Now here’s my question. Is facial recognition still the biometric of choice? And if so, why? And then hasn’t technology since then actually advanced to include other areas of individually identifiable characteristics such as gait and ear lobes and chips under the skin and all that? Expand upon that please.
Mark Lerner:
Number one, facial recognition is the biometric of choice because it can be used without our knowledge or consent. Number two, there are many more biometrics than there were even 10 years ago. The most recent biometric deals with wifi, electromagnetic frequency waves, those waves affect each of us in an individual or unique way. So by simply having wifi directed at you, these EMF frequency waves, your signature from these waves would be different than mine. But yes, ear lobes, et cetera. But then you have physical characteristics more in line with the way we walk our gate. Our gate is unique to each of us every day there are new biometrics being developed.
Sam Rohrer:
Okay, so facial recognition still the item of choice. It began a long time ago. To what extent, I mean I’ve been seeing Mark and you can kind of confirm this country after country, you would think that why would a country in Africa be collecting biometrics or China is we know because they have a social credit score, but it appears to be literally around the world. I mean, is there any significant country that you know of that is not in the business and having already collected perhaps facial recognition and other biometrics,
Mark Lerner:
Every country has adopted what’s called the ICAO, international Civil Aviation Organization, which is a member of the United Nation. They’ve adopted the same standards. And the only reason you have international standards is for the sharing of the information amongst all the countries in the world. Every nation is collecting the biometrics of their people. Even in India, we have 1.5 billion people. Approximately 99.5% of the people are enrolled in the same system. We are China, Russia, doesn’t matter.
Sam Rohrer:
Okay, ladies and gentlemen, you get the idea. So we’re talking again, the theme here today is imminent surveillance and control, connecting the dots of technology, information and biometrics. We’re trying to lay this out as simply as we can, but remember, information is power, power is control. So when you consolidate information well then you have control. Before we go into this segment here, we’re going to connect the dots and discuss the, I’m going to say the immensity of this system that we’re talking about that involves well, technology information, information collection, information analysis, the use of biometrics, and all of just wanted to just say that if you would like submit for further information on more of the specifics of things related to biometrics and all that we’re talking about, you can get information on my guest site, which is@constitutionalalliance.org, constitutional alliance.org, and you’ll find information including that document and some others from which I already referred to and quoted.
In addition to that, I also just like you to pray for Mark. You can tell you’re listening to him. He’s struggling with his voice and has, he’s spoken a lot over the years, but he’s had trouble with his voice and does not have the strength that he always had. And I just want to say that I would like you to pray for him and his strength in continuing to try and speak and inform people to the extent that God gives him strength. The same as I do in my position. And I hope all of you as you are listening, so Mark is at times in the past is wondered if he’d even be able to speak at all because of difficulty. And someone like George Barney on our program did lose his voice and has had surgery after surgery, same kind of thing. So I just want you to know that and be aware that when you’re hearing that he is sacrificing energy and time to be with us today.
And I just want to thank him again for that. All right, moving into connecting the dots here, real ID, which we talked a little bit in the last segment I talked about yesterday with Twila Braze on the program, real id, the desire for control of all human beings. We know as God-fearing people started with Satan, who he desired the one thing that he couldn’t have. And this was the worship of human beings created by God in his image. Now there was no technology, know it back then, didn’t need it. The devil just comes right into our mind and our heart, spiritual warfare that is from the moment of creation, Satan has sought to scuttle God’s plan of redemption. That’s the big picture, biblical worldview part that we talk about regularly. The Satan’s effort before the flood brought about God’s judgment of the flood. Then Nimrod came along.
He was a servant of Satan. Scripture tells us about that he desired to control all post flood humanity and lead them away from God. And he built the Tower of Babel. And all that came from that God judged again. He divided the languages, scattered the people around the world, but then tyrants in every age who have defied God and his plan have sought to do what well to control people to the extent that they could do so. Now, for the first time in history, the identifiable components that we’ve identified thus far are now converging in alignment with all of what biblical prophecy says will occur. Now Mark, let’s talk now about this imminent convergence of this system of control, including government, elite billionaires, technology, information, databases, and now artificial intelligence. To me, mark, since our current president, Donald Trump was inaugurated starting the day after his inauguration, he had a meeting there with the White House with four technology billionaires, AI database, information gathering billionaires.
He didn’t use the word warp speed, but the point was committed a half a billion, 500 billion to infect be a warp speed integration of artificial intelligence into American business, government, everyday life. And the administration, and many of them have said of really placing their hopes on maintaining world dominance by making the United States the global leader in ai. But AI deals with information in the analysis of information as the databases are. And that’s where I see a potential final boiling of this water in the pot where the frog, the proverbial frog is, or the snapping of the trap, the illustration I used. Here’s the question, how do you see the current composition, the current composition of the components we’ve identified being able to be consolidated by government or some other entity and implement total control and why, in other words, these things we’re talking about, is there any piece missing? How far along the path are we on all of these pieces actually flipping and just falling right into place to make a structure that can take and impose total control?
Mark Lerner:
Well, sadly, we’re already there. What’s happened with Palantir Peter Thiel’s’s company, which is artificial intelligence, most people don’t realize this company started about two over two and a half decades ago. Seed money came from our central intelligence agency. So what Palantir has done through the efforts of Doge, department of government efficiency is gone into databases that were previously siloed. Information was kept in silo database rather than one because the more information you centralize in one database, the risk bad actors will be able to penetrate that database and have all our information. But that’s exactly what’s happened. We have centralized all information, including our health information. HIPAA is being violated with what’s being done right now. And people need to understand that’s because unfortunately we focus on the economy and politics, but not on personal information and control. Everything about us now is in one centralized database.
Sam Rohrer:
Okay, where is that database? How does that actually work? Now the president with the billionaires after the White House inauguration talked about that. Number 10 came out, a lot of these bases are under construction, one’s being built. Rover close to me about an hour for me here in Pennsylvania where the power plant that runs, it was owned by Bill Gates, he bought it. So these guys are involved. Are you talking these 10 databases that are linked? Are you talking about other databases? Where is it being centrally located?
Mark Lerner:
The information itself, because of the terrific amount of it that it is, there are different centers all over the country that are storing information. I had the honor of speaking with two former NSA senior analysts. Now, these people were responsible for finding terrorists overseas. They became whistleblowers as I did, but for their reason, it was because of the programs they developed to catch terrorist overseas being employed against US citizens as well. So who has access to it? The Secretary of Department of Homeland Security, secretary Noem, department of Justice, the AG Pam Bondi, of course, the president himself, Donald Trump. So senior people in the administration is the answer to your question.
Sam Rohrer:
And this information that is being housed, is it in these data centers that are being built or is it in the cloud so to speak, or is it in physical facilities or that kind of thing? Explain that. Where is it actually housed?
Mark Lerner:
It is housed in what’s called a master database, which means there’s a dossier on each one of us from all the information collected now, telephone calls and things of that nature are being housed in a facility in Utah. So you have different facilities having different information, if you will. But the key is it’s all centralized from the aspect of a few people having the ability in real time to access all the information from wherever those people are, whether they’re in Washington DC traveling around the country or in another part of
Sam Rohrer:
The world. Since it’s part of the system, then anybody who has access to the system can do it. So the 10 databases that are being built, it was Sam Altman that made comments. What he says is that the cameras on the vest of every police officer and on the dashboard of every police cruiser and stoplights and every camera, everything would be connected into that. So he’s envisioning that he’s going to have something to do with it, but I’m assuming that if it’s in one database that the other one can access the other, which in part puts together this universe of information. Is that correct? Something like that. Correct,
Mark Lerner:
Yes. Now another type of camera, automatic license plate readers, a company name lock has these automatic license plate readers. And there are other companies that employ artificial intelligence biometrics and they can use optical technology to read your license plate.
Sam Rohrer:
So what does that mean? Okay, hold it, Mark, hold it, hold it, Mark. We’re just out of time ladies and gentlemen. Stay with us. We’ll come back and I’m going to ask Mark to finish that. Let that optical reader what’s done with that, and then answer the question of what will it take an event to make things happen? And then how should we respond to all of this? Mark, as we go into the final segment, you were just completing a thought there about cameras and license plate readers. Could you complete what you were saying in that last segment please?
Mark Lerner:
Well, simply automatic license plate readers, reader license plate. They also now are combined with facial recognition and with also the ability to create, we have a national automatic license plate reader capability. Anywhere you go in the car, in your car, the car can be tracked. Now they can know who owns the car, but the only way they know who’s driving the car is through the use of facial recognition technology. So that’s where we’re at with that. But we also have smart intelligence streetlights. These have cameras in them as well. I spend eight hours a day reading the most updated technology periodicals and what I’m warning people about healthcare just recently came out US government, big tech, unite to build one stop national health data platform. And this is all happening when the largest data breach in the history of the world, over 8 billion records took place this year. So it’s not about protecting our information, it’s about using our information.
Sam Rohrer:
Okay, information ladies and gentlemen is power. Power is control. Alright, Mark here, answer this question. Now we’ve talked about the components, all the things, I’m not going to go back because of time, go through all of it, but technology, we talked about that and how it’s being collected and it’s being housed in databases and there’s hundreds of billions of dollars being spent for it and government is planning on our government and others think now connect in artificial intelligence in order to analyze all that data in real time, fed by cameras, fed by everything that we’re talking about. And you have point in time information, historic information, and you have real time as we’re moving about information. That sounds like a web of control. That sounds very prophetic. Now I just asked you this question and you’ve already said it. I asked you, are there any of these components that would comprise a system in place so tight, so extensive that it could literally shut down everything that we know right now and control every person? And you said no, it’s in place. So what do you think is standing in the way right now from those technologies and the combining those things we’re talking about from actually somebody actually putting it into effect and saying, all right, now all of a sudden I’m now going to take this. I’m going to act upon it and I am going to put my people in my country under control. What’s preventing that from happening?
Mark Lerner:
There’s nothing preventing it, but to have an ideal situation, the global economy would collapse, including our own. And when that happens and people will become more dependent on government and willing to give government more and more of their information on real time. I want to add one point. The city of New Orleans right now is going to be taking a vote as are other cities to employ real time facial recognition technology. These customs border patrol, they have it ICE who’s doing all the rounding up of violent criminals and others. They have access to these databases on their smartphones. But total economic meltdown will occur. And then you’re going to see all this being used against people that dissent to what the government is doing.
Sam Rohrer:
Okay, ladies and gentlemen, it’s an event. What Mark’s talking about is an event, something will occur, could be a financial reset I’m going to put out there. It could be the rapture, certainly that’d be global, but there will be an event that’s just how things happen with government. And they lo and behold happen to have the solution right at hand and ready to go. That’s the way the process works. Now, Mark, knowing all this, how should the believer who fears God, and there are American patriots who just believe in the tenets of the Constitution, they may not know who Jesus Christ is, but they have a fear of tyranny. But how should those who understand these things based on what we’re talking about today, how should they respond to these things here today when in fact most of what we’re describing is not within your power to stop. You’ve tried to, or my power to stop. I’ve tried to bring it to light. I don’t know any one single person that’s bringing about the things that we’re talking about. So how does a person respond in these days based on what we know? And let’s go to a person who fears God. Start there.
Mark Lerner:
First thing we must do is acknowledge God. Put aside our pride, our egos, all the things that are sinful. Second thing we need to do, remember our glory goes to God. We need to contact our state, even our local and our federal congressional delegations and tell them we want transparency’s done is being done outside of the privacy act and for your request. So we must demand transparency. We must get rid of the third party doctrine that allows corporations to share information that we don’t even know is being shared. And finally, what we must do, we need to stop falling into the trap of convenience, that we do things digitally like mobile ID with our smartphones because it’s more convenient. Convenience will get you to where the government wants because that smartphone is the best surveillance tool government has.
Sam Rohrer:
Excuse me, Mark. That is interesting. Convenience, ladies and gentlemen is a big deal. Mark, what about a minute left. There are some younger people who say, well, you know what? Well, what makes a difference? They already know about me anyway. What do you say?
Mark Lerner:
Well, that’s true. They already do know about you. And with each passing day they know more about you. I’m not telling people don’t use a smartphone, but there are cases for them that when they’re in the case, they don’t transmit any geolocational data. So there are smart things we can do, but ultimately prayer. Nothing is more important than prayer because this system, a global system of identification and financial control, we know it will exist. And for those who believe in pre tribulation, rapture, we have an obligation to warn everybody in the world what the mark of the beast is, which is your ability to buy, sell, et cetera. We need to warn people so they don’t fall into that system when the antichrist appears.
Sam Rohrer:
Mark, thank you so much for being with me today. Mark Lerner is my guest today and his website is constitutional alliance.org. Constitutional alliance.org. Ladies and gentlemen, that’s why we on this program say at the end of the day, it’s your view, do we know the Lord? Pursue the truth, embrace the truth of God’s word, what he says he is the way, the truth and the life. And then act upon it, fear God and keep his commandments. That’s the way should have been from the beginning. And it is now in that we know God’s word, we know what he’s doing, and he is in control.
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