U.S. National Debt and the U.S. Constitution

U.S. National Debt and the U.S. Constitution

November 20, 2025

Host: Hon. Sam Rohrer

Guest: David New

Note: This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program aired on 11/20/25. To listen to the podcast, click HERE.

Disclaimer: While reasonable efforts have been made to provide an accurate transcription, the following is a representation of a mechanical transcription and as such, may not be a word for word transcript. Please listen to the audio version for any questions concerning the following dialogue.

Sam Rohrer:

Hello and welcome to this Thursday edition of Stand In the Gap Today. And it’s also our bimonthly emphasis on, well, we sometimes put into that current events, the Constitution and American history. And my returning guest for this recurring focus is of course, constitutional attorney, author and public speaker David knew. Now today, we’ve decided to look at the area, I’m going to say, of extraordinary, unavoidable harm not only to every American, but frankly the entire world. This dangerous issue, well, it’s one of national security threat. It’s one that because of our interconnected global nature threatens the very viability of the economic climate of the entire world. It’s an issue. Every president and every US senator and congressman when they run, they promised a fix. But not only has it continued to grow, but it’s grown faster every year. Not fixed, what am I referring to? You guessed it.

The national debt. That’s where, in simple terms, our elected government officials have chosen to promise more than is possible to deliver and have spent with abandon clearly caring less for our nation than for themselves in the moment. It’s where the system of government has become so corrupted, where the embracing of bribery has become standard practice to buy votes to enrich themselves and their friends using bribery to convince states to turn over their autonomy to the federal government and where agreed bottom line has exceeded restraint, jeopardizing the integrity of our entire constitutional republic. In fact, our condition has become so abysmal that the United States where it was once the greatest nation in the world for all good reasons now holds what should be the most embarrassing title to be held by any nation in the history of human civilization. And that is this, we are the largest debtor, the largest debtor nation in the history of the world.

That number sitting today is over $38 trillion. In absolute terms, no other country has ever carried this much debt making the United States the largest debtor nation in history. And it’s only because the dollar has been the world’s reserve currency. Has this been possible? But this is changing fast with some type of monetary reset and economic collapse imminent. It’s not five years from now, it’s, it won’t go that long. I’m going to say not even a year from now. Whereas we’ll not talk today about what the reset may look like. What we do want to talk about though is debt. Our in light of what the Constitution says and what should be the guiding principle behind our undisciplined pursuit. I’m going to say a temporary gratification. Alright, David, welcome to the program. We’ve got a big theme to undertake here.

David New:

Well, blessings to everyone. It’s so nice to be here.

Sam Rohrer:

And David, before we get into a lot of the research you’ve put together relative to what the Constitution says and what our founders thought, and I’ll share some other numbers, there’s just so much you would like to make some brief comments on what is known as Project 250. I think there’s an American two 50. Would you share what these are and why you think that’s necessary to talk about them?

David New:

Ladies and gentlemen, if it’s possible, contact your local Chamber of Commerce or the mayor’s office and your town and see what’s going on. For preparation for the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence. They’re called generally Project two 50. Another one is called America two 50. Another one is called Brethren in Christ two 50. And if it’s possible, make sure when you contact them that they elevate the spiritual dimension of the Declaration of Independence. Make sure that they are aware that the most important word in the Declaration of Independence is the word Creator. Creator. That is the most important word in the Declaration of Independence because that is the power pack. That is the energy source. That’s what gives life to the Declaration of Independence. Other nations would give anything if they had a declaration of independence like we have. This is unique. And here Thomas Jefferson is combining the powers of heaven and the powers of Earth, both in one document where he talks about the creator giving human rights.

So here Thomas Jefferson himself is mixing religion and politics. So if you kindly, if you have opportunity between now and July 4th next year, contact your local government and see what they are doing and see what is in the program and make sure the spiritual dimension, the real power source of America is being elevated and acknowledged. Now there’s also some good news, which I’m very pleased to report. Newsmax magazine had an article in their recent paper, the July, August, 2025 issue. It says, church tendance skyrockets in the United Kingdom. Britain has seen a staggering increase in regular church attendance over the past several years. Has CBN news reported April 15th, 2025 regarding a survey commissioned by the Bible Society and conducted by YouGov. The percentage of people who describe themselves as Christians and go to church at least once a month rose from 8% in 2018 to 12% in 2024, that’s a 50% increase. This is heavily driven by young people. The 18 to 24 age group rising from four to 16%. The 25 to 34 age group rise from four to 13%. So this is good news. We’re working on revival here in America. Try if there’s any way that you can piggyback America’s revival in the United States with Project two 50.

Sam Rohrer:

Alright David, well thanks for mentioning that. Ladies and gentlemen, that brings us up to our first break here. You got the introduction. If you’re just tuning in, this is our Constitution, American history focus, and today it’s on the national debt. And what David was just sharing was just be aware that this next year will be our 250th anniversary and the importance of contacting local government officials to make sure that within whatever’s done there is a reference and a direct connection to our creator, which is the focus of our Declaration of Independence. Now that being said, stay with us when we come back. We’re going to get into talking about the US debt and the Constitution and we’ve got a short primer from David. In the next segment we’re going to talk about debt history in the third segment and then biblical warnings in the last segment.

Well, on today’s program, if you’re just joining in, David New is with me Again, this is our bimonthly emphasis on American history and events. We tie into that current events along with primary emphasis on the constitutional link in all of those. Today we’ve chosen the issue of US debt. So the title of the program and our focus is the US National Debt and the US Constitution. So let me give us some background here and then I’m going to go to David for a little bit of a primer from his perspective on the Constitution and debt. But just to set it up a little bit further, the national debt, as I mentioned earlier, is now sitting at over $38 trillion and it is growing by an additional $1 trillion every 92 days. That’s the current rate right now. And that would reflect it being the shortest period of time in a history, meaning we’re spending more than ever in this period of time.

That’s the other way to look at it, except for a period of time during 2020 and 2021 where it dropped down to 75 days, every a trillion dollars was being spent every 75 days. So no matter how one looks at it, where we are today, it is at its fastest speed in the last 20 years. That’s where we are every 92 days now is the latest number. And we could address this fact from many aspects, and I think I’m going to do so probably in some future programs that we talk about debt and the economy and those kind of aspects. But today our focus is on the US Constitution and national debt and what our founders thought and the restraints that they put into effect to prevent such runaway calamity, such as what I just described. And I’m going to say, but for which excuses and end runs around the restraints, the constitutional restraints have produced what is now not a potential crisis. It’s a literal unfolding collapse crisis. Alright, now that’s the broader perspective. Let’s move now into David, if you would give us a quick primer if you wouldn’t mind, on this matter of national federal debt because it doesn’t speak to the states, they have to have balanced budgets. We’re talking the federal government and the US Constitution for instance. How is debt viewed within the Constitution and did our founders envision the federal government ever going into debt and certainly anything like we have now?

David New:

Yes, very quickly, a summary of past debt in the United States. The American Revolutionary War cost about $101 million to successfully wage the war and gain American independence. 101 million. Out of that 101 million, the United States incurred debt right from the get-go of around $75.4 million, $75.4 million. The Civil War at 1860, the national debt was around $65 million. By 1863, it was $1 billion. Shortly at the end of the Civil War it had grown to $2.7 billion. The national debt from 1980 to 1990 tripled the rugged years. The national debt tripled by 2008, the United States was in debt for $10.3 trillion, which is 10 times what the debt was in 1980. Okay, has the United States ever not been in debt? There is a very brief period under the presidency of Andrew Jackson from 1835 to about 1837. The United States was debt free, no debt, but there was a panic in 1837 and that caused debt to be resurrected.

So how does the Supreme Court, I mean how does the Constitution handle debt? Well, in Article one section eight it says, to borrow money on the credit of the United States. That’s very important. Now notice in Article one, section seven it says, all bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives. So if you want to raise money, you’ve got to start in the house. Why? This is one of the constitution’s protection against excessive taxes and excessive debt by making the house which is elected every two years by making the house the source to raise the revenue by putting the voter has the closest control on the federal government because the house gets elected every two years. Also, if you look at Article one, section eight, here’s how we prevent military dictatorships in this country. We prevent military dictatorships by having a civilian as the commander in chief.

But there’s another way. If you notice in Article one, section eight it says to raise and support armies but no appropriation of money to the use for a longer term than two years. Two years. And of course that lines up directly with the house being elected every two years. So one of the ways to where the military, it’s budgeted for basically a two year period and that’s it. And that puts control upon the threat of a national military takeover. Now the Constitution does something extremely important when it comes to debt. It is a pro-growth constitution. It is a pro-growth constitution. Look at Article one, section eight. Now this is the genius, the absolute genius of the framers of the Constitution. What we’re going to talk about as we know the preamble says, the purpose of the constitution is to make a more perfect union. This clause that we’re discussing right now in Article one, section eight which says this, to regulate commerce with foreign nations, okay?

That’s going to be Congress. And among the several states and among the several states, that was the constitution’s strategy to grow the US economy. There are several reasons why the US economy took off and just grew like crazy. Number one, we honored the Lord Jesus Christ and the American culture. We are a Christian nation. Number two, we gave sanctuary for the Jewish people who were suffering under the Inquisition. Even as the constitution was being written. We obeyed Genesis 12 verse three. But this phrase among the several states is very important because what it does is it creates an American common market, an American common market. Europe did not even begin to create a European common market until the 1950s. This is how far in advance the vision, the planning, the intellect that these people, these 39 signers of the Constitution had. They created an American common market and 1787 and that meant that the US economy would take off.

Sam Rohrer:

And David, what you laid out there, I can almost guarantee it. Our listeners are looking and say, wow, I never heard that before. I never heard it expressed that way before. And that’s to your point that the wisdom as we talk about so much, the wisdom of our founders, the content of our organic documents of law by which we’ve talked Mayflower Compact, the Northwest Ordinance, the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, all of them, all of them reflect a recognition that God created. They all recognized that there is a right way biblically about going about instituting government and the purposes of government and all aspects, finances, economics, justice, education, all of those things were all a part of how that was to be done. And when it was done, they knew, ladies and gentlemen, we’ve talked about it before, they knew what God promised Israel. Go to Deuteronomy chapter 28 and you’ll find it where God says to them, and our founders knew it, fear God, implement and obey his commands.

And what God says, all these blessings shall come on you and overtake you if you harken to the voice of the Lord your God. And it starts out in what it walks down through is how wealth is generated, houses, land, economy, and goes right to the matter of debt that we talk about. You will be a lender to other nations and not a borrower going into debt. That’s what God’s word says. Our founders knew it and as long as we did it and recognized and blessed Israel, we became great. Now think of that in terms of making America great again today. Alright, we’re back in just a second. As we go into further consideration now of looking back at the building US debt history, there are many ways a person can consider our US debt. Again, if you’re just joining us, we’re halfway through the program now, David, new constitutional attorney, author, public speaker, and we get we’re here every other Thursday generally speaking, bimonthly.

We do this focus, this focus on us debt is the first time that we’ve dealt with this specific issue in light of the Constitution. And if you didn’t join, weren’t able to catch the last segment where David shared really a primer, some very, very wonderful information that most people have no idea about the concept of finance in our constitution and debt. You need to go back and listen to the program. I encourage you to do that. But in that regard, there are many ways a person can consider our US debt in terms of a history that is one, there’s different aspects of it that one can measure. Now when we talk about national debt, however, which as I’ve said stands right now at a little over $38 trillion making the most ever in our history and as I said, making the United States to have the most infamous title of any nation to have ever existed.

That being we are the largest debtor nation in the history of the world. There are more ways one can look at it, but that aspect of national debt, if 38 trillion does not take into account other categories of debt that from an economic standpoint must be linked as it contributes to overall debt and the weight that it puts on our nation. And if one were to take an ad, what I’m going to share next to this national debt, it just goes to the sun. That’s unbelievable. For instance, here’s what I mean. Here’s the other debt that is not included in the $38 trillion national debt, which we’re talking, here’s one consumer credit card debt. Consumer credit card debt is up 6% this year over last year stands right now $1.23 trillion mortgage debt that which people owe on properties and houses over $13 trillion. Corporate debt. It’s 12.3 trillion with 11.4 trillion in outstanding corporate bonds.

How about this one student loan debt? It impacts 48 million borrowers in America that’s at over $3 trillion. And that doesn’t even take into effect other long-term obligations, what called unfunded liabilities like social security and Medicare, which is promised it’s in law estimated right now at between 73 and $100 trillion over the next 73 years. But those numbers keep changing because they just keep stretching it out. Alright, David, I wanted to lay that out there because what you’re talking about is just the national debt portion. So go from that. Would you share your research and provide, when we say is an overall historical overview of US debt, not this other stuff I’m talking about and include it of course. If you don’t mind, how much debt did the US incur in past years? You already gone through some of that laid out again please.

David New:

Ladies and gentlemen, a lot of the information I’m going to share with you came from an economic study just released by the RAND Corporation titled Preliminary Strategies for Reducing the Burden of Federal Debt, preliminary Strategies for Reducing the Burden of Federal Debt. You can download that for free. They in turn quote the Board of Governors at the Federal Reserve Bank and the US Bureau of Economic Analysis. Now, don’t let all these fancy words scare you. We’re going to keep this simple for you and for me. Now, there’s one year, ladies and gentlemen, I want you to remember from this show one year, 19 74, 19 74, the national debt has been going up over and over increasing every year since World War ii. But from 1946, the highest winter national debt was extremely high, the highest it’s ever been. Some say we just matched it or exceeded it.

Different people use different numbers to calculate these things. You’ve got to give people some space on that. But from 1946 to 1974, the federal national debt increased every year, but the national economy grew larger. So as a percentage of the national economy up until 1974, even though the national debt was growing, it was still getting smaller as a percentage of the national income, the gross domestic product, GDP. Now what happened in 1974, it now reverses in the next 50 years. From 1975 to 2024, the national debt rose again to its near highest level it’s ever been. At the end of World War ii, our national debt was 106% of the gross domestic product. But by 2024, it had pretty much gone back to where it was at 98%. Thus, the size of the debt relative to the size of the economy has gone back to World War II levels.

So 1974 was a pivotal year because that’s when things changed. No matter we never were able to grow the economy large enough to make the national debt. Even though it grew, we never were able to make the national economy grow enough to make the national debt a smaller and smaller percentage. And now it’s getting larger and larger and larger. And ladies and gentlemen, we’re heading towards a cliff and we’re about to fall off now, there are four ways to reduce federal debt. Four ways to do it. Number one, increase economic growth. That’s been the basic strategy post-World War ii. Raise additional revenue.

Number three, cut spending. Forget it. Number three, cut spending. Forget it. Number four, reduce interest payments through default that you don’t want to do. You default on your loans, your money will become worthless paper. So those are the four ways to reduce federal debt, increase the size of the economy, raise additional revenue, cut spending and reduce the interest payments through federal debt. Now, the Congressional budget office, the CBO forecast that the debt will reach 156% of the gross domestic product by 2055. Right now it’s about 98% of the gross domestic product. It was 106% of the gross domestic product at the end of World War ii. The highest point, but it’s now going to go to 156% and we don’t seem to have any to stop it.

So we’re in trouble because I don’t know how we’re going to reduce the spending. We are now electing people who aren’t interested in reducing the national debt. Our little friend in New York City, he’s not interested in reducing the debt of New York City. He wants to increase it. Okay? He wants to give free bus rides and free childcare. Okay? How much are you spending right now? Right now on your federal tax dollars that goes towards the interest payment in 2025 this year, 2025, 19 cents of every tax dollar you spend now goes to the interest payments in federal and FY 2025. We are heading towards a cliff and we don’t know how to get off.

Sam Rohrer:

And David, you took and you laid that out well, and ladies and gentlemen, it’s what the numbers I shared earlier and what David is sharing this cliff, we’ve already crossed it. The question is, well what’s it feel like when you land at the bottom in reality and truth from a financial perspective where we’re sitting right now at 120, I’m looking at it here. What the latest 123% of GDP meaning right now, just about 25%, we’re spending 25% more than we are bringing in revenue interest payments, just over a trillion dollars, third largest expenditure larger than military spending.

You say, how can this continue? That’s a good question. Can’t that’s the bottom line. And that’s why David says refers to the edge of the cliff. I’m saying you can’t go five more years. You’re not going to go one more year, I don’t believe with the things that are happening. And when we come back, we’re going to talk a little bit more. I’m going to give some other numbers here that’ll stagger you, but it will make sense. And we’re going to talk about what the Bible says about debt. Well, we’re going into our final segment and if you’ve been with us from the beginning, thank you so very, very much. And if you were not able to start out the program with us, please go back and listen to the program in its entirety as each segment builds one upon the other as we focus today on the Constitution and the US debt.

Now, we’ve given a lot of numbers. I’m not going to go through again, but if you go back and get the program on the website or on the app stand on the gap app, you’ll be able to also obtain the transcript and pick up some of these things that they were obviously not able to write down probably. However, we’re going to conclude here with what the Bible says about finances because it does speak to finance, it actually speaks more about finances than any other subject, believe it or not. There’s just much in scripture about money and stewardship and the instruction for governments and what they should do and not do and that kind of thing. Since scripture, our founders knew it and they built in restrictions as they could. But if somebody doesn’t want to fear God and keep his commandments, they can figure out a way around it, exactly what’s happened.

Now, from a practical perspective, I’m going to share some numbers here. Listen carefully. They’ll be shocking, but they’re real and I think you’ll understand them. But from a practical perspective, being in debt limits freedom, being in debt makes the borrower. Now our nation put it in that perspective or any of us who are a borrower and owe somebody something else. The borrower is always a servant to the lender. The lender says, I want my money back. You got to produce it. Otherwise there are consequences. Now, from a national perspective, congressional overspending has resulted in, at this moment, $38.1 trillion in national debt, let alone all the other debt I mentioned with consumer debt and all of that. And it’s made us as a nation very vulnerable to our enemies like China, to whom we have become a servant because they have bought so much of our debt, they finance us.

Now we’re getting into trouble because they’re not buying our debt anymore, them and some other countries. But logical question, where did Congress in the federal government get this much money anyways? How can you just spend and spend and spend? Well, there are two primary ways. We’re not going to go into all of them, but each of them have consequences. One is that you borrow from other nations like China or Japan and other countries. Secondly, you devalue the dollar through printing money and through inflation. We’ve had many people in office that say, well, we’re just borrowing it from ourselves. We’re just borrowing it from ourselves. As if that makes some kind of a difference. But it’s a big lie. It’s theft is what it is, but you devalue the dollar. Now all of this represents I’m saying it’s legalized theft. It’s from the American taxpayer. It’s from the wealth that they have accumulated through work and savings.

And all of this is now threatening national security and it’s forcing Americans into a position of financial slavery as every one of us find it harder and harder to make ends meet right now. Today, the impact of this legal legalized theft is this. Listen to a couple of these numbers, then I’m go to David’s for some biblical principles. Listen to this. Using 1930 as a baseline where $1 equaled $1 20 years later in 1950 to buy the same value of that $1 1930 it would require then it required a dollar and 44 cents. 30 years later in 1980, it required $4 and 93 cents to buy the same value. If that $1 did in 1930, but in 2025, do you know what it requires now to buy that same value of $1, it requires $19 and 40 cents just under $20 to buy the same thing that $1 did in 1930. Now here’s, put it another way. In 1930, a dollar was worth $1 or 100 cents.

Today in 2025, due to debt and inflation, the printing of the money, the devaluation of it, that same dollar, that same dollar right now is worth 95% less or just 5 cents. You want to know why your dollar doesn’t buy much when you go to the store because it’s not worth much. It’s worth 5 cents as compared to what a dollar was worth in 1930. So what is that? Well, I’m going to say what has happened is exactly what God said would happen, and it’s what our founders knew would happen if we would not restrain ourselves when it came to spending. So David, here, finish the program. The word of God speaks more about finance than learning anything. What are some scripture verses that you’d like to share that provides relevant counsel to our discussion today?

David New:

Absolutely. I want to share with our listeners some numbers from the International Monetary Fund, how we compare with other nations and their debt to their gross national product. And the IMF says Canada is at 110, we’re supposed to be at 98. France is 113. Germany is 63. Italy is 135. Here’s the worst one of all. Japan. They are at 236%. That means their debt is 206% of their gross domestic product. And if you know anything about the Japanese economy, it’s been in the doghouse the last 30 years because of this. The United Kingdom is 101. The IMF ranks the United States in terms of a percentage of national debt. The gross domestic product at 120 different groups count things different ways, but whatever the number is, we’re getting larger. From the end of World War ii, 106% down to 1974, it hit 23%, which was good even though the debt got larger and larger every year after World War II to 1974, as the percentage of the size of the economy, it got less and less.

So it went from 106% down to 23%, 19 74, 19 74, a bad year because from then on, it skyrockets. Now there’s one verse I want to point out. The Bible teaches sin as adept. Read the Lord’s Prayer. Now, the Lord’s Prayer is a prayer you want to be very careful about reading, about saying, look what it says, and forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors. That’s really bad. God wants you to pray to him, for him to treat you and forgive your sins, the way you forgive other people who sin against you. That means if you’re a hard nose, you don’t have a forgiving attitude, you’re in trouble because you ask God to use your standard against you, that you apply to other people. If you want to have forgiveness from God, you’ve got to be forgiven of other people.

Sam Rohrer:

And David, financially, apply it real quick out of time. 10 seconds. How do we apply it financially?

David New:

Financially, get out and get rid of your credit cards. Pay in cash, paying cash as much as you can.

Sam Rohrer:

So ladies and gentlemen, it just comes down to this, overspending is always a problem. And what God told the nation is what he tells individuals. Fear God, keep his commandments and do what he says and he will bring blessing. And that means that we will be a lender and not a borrower going in debt servant to someone else such as we are now in our nation. Join me tomorrow here, Dr. George Barna will be withIsaac and me.