Love and the Gen. Z Problem

December 8, 2025

Host: Hon. Sam Rohrer

Guest: Dr. Renton Rathbun

Note: This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program aired on 12/08/25. To listen to the podcast, click HERE.

Disclaimer: While reasonable efforts have been made to provide an accurate transcription, the following is a representation of a mechanical transcription and as such, may not be a word for word transcript. Please listen to the audio version for any questions concerning the following dialogue.

Sam Rohrer:

Hello and welcome to this Monday edition of Stand In the Gap Today, and it’s also our monthly focus on apologetics, biblical world of view and education with recurring guest Dr. Renton Rathbun. Dr. Rathbun is a speaker and is a consultant. As you know, if you listen to the program regularly, he’s not a stranger to you at all. But as a reminder, he’s a speaker and is a consultant on biblical worldview instruction for BJU Press. He’s been a college professor for over 20 years on both Christian and secular campuses. And in addition, he teaches and preaches across America regularly focusing on biblical worldview and apologetics, I must say just recently assumed the pastorate of a church in upstate South Carolina. So he’s got a lot on his platter. Now, one of the phenomena of contemporary America, I would say are the striking differences between, I’m going to say the many generational groups ranging from what is known as on the one end, the older end, the silent generation that reflects those born between 1928 and 1945, and the very youngest known as Generation Alpha, those people born between 2013 and this very year 2025.

So the differences in age go way beyond even that of age. It goes to the entirety, I’m going to say including world of view. And it touches everything from attitudes and values to priorities. And it runs deep as we know from the many research studies that we’ve shared on this program from Dr. George Barna, to include those attitudes, for instance, toward the understanding of God and truth and right and wrong and sin and heaven and hell. And in the midst of these fundamental changes, it of course threatens the very viability of our nation, built on a common biblical view of God and truth. It literally impacts all aspects of life. And within these changes and differences is a measurable major change in attitude toward, I want to say one of the most desired of life. And that’s the focus of our program today, and that’s the understanding of the human desire, I’m going to say to be loved and to love the title I’ve chosen to frame Dr. Renton Rathbun in my very important conversation. Today’s this love and the Gen Z problem. And with that Renton, thank you for being back on the program. It’s always a blessing to have you on.

Renton Rathbun:

No, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

Sam Rohrer:

Renton, on this theme today, a lot of people may never have thought about it, gen Z, and that could be all generations. I could ask you that a little bit, but this is where it came from in a recent conversation. You mentioned to me that in your research and observation and involvement with the younger generations that you’ve noticed what you described to me as a problem with Generation Z in particular in regard to its understanding of love. Gen Z now ladies and gentlemen, is that group of people born between 1997 and 2012, constituting people generally in the ranges of right now between 13 and 28. So teenagers up to like 28, that’s that group. So to get us started, Renton, would you describe the condition that you have observed and state that the problem as you see it?

Renton Rathbun:

Well, just like any generation in the older generation, we look at the younger and we tend to think of them as lackadaisical or uninspired and lazy, and that happens every generation. But when we look at what’s going on with Gen Z, we do see a component that hasn’t been in any generation before, which is the technology that we have today that is so accessible to Gen Z. Gen Z is a group that has probably never known a life really without a cell phone or some kind of gadget that connects them to the rest of the world and technology has taught them things. So we now live in this world where technology is not this neutral conduit. It is something that actually does the instruction to the kids. And all of them have these cell phones in their pockets that teach them that they are actually these neutral beings.

And what I mean by that is as they look down upon the world of ideas that they see on their platforms from Instagram to TikTok to whatever they’re using, the danger is that as they look down on all those ideas, they feel, and it appears to them that they are neutral, that they come to this without viewing one side or the other, but rather have this kind of distance from these ideas. And in so they believe they don’t have bias, and in seeing that they don’t have bias, it legitimizes this idea that they can be the adjudicators of the world. And so what you end up having is about 40% of Gen Zs identifying as what they call nuns, people that have no relationship to religion because they’ve already looked down upon it, saw what they believe is bias, and they have their own ideas that they believe is right. And that’s why 64% of high school graduates today will walk away from the church. So whatever, how many walked away from the church before, 64% more now will walk away from the church. And a lot of that has to do with how they’ve been instructed by their technology.

Sam Rohrer:

Alright, we’re going to get more into that ladies and gentlemen in the next segment talking about those things which are shaping which technology is a major one. But let me ask you this, well a couple minutes left in this segment rent and that is this Gen Z’s view of love, I don’t even know if you have access to this, but their view of love and we’ll go more into that. What is a striking difference, if anything, from for instance, the millennial group that people have heard about those between ages of 29 and 44 or the generation above them, between 45 and 60, that Gen X in short, when you look at this that you defined and described in Generation Z, why does that present a problem? And if it is a problem, it’s a problem for whom?

Renton Rathbun:

Yeah, so obviously movies are not a reflection of academic research, but one thing we can see is Gen Xers, that’s my generation. We would see this like the movie as good as it gets, you have Jack Nicholson’s famous phrase, you make me want to be a better man when he is talking about pursuing a woman. In other words, the idea of change, immediate change was something that we knew had to be done and we were willing to do in pursuit of someone else. By the time the millennials came around, this idea was more along the lines of, I will change eventually, but you got to love me for who I am right now with the Gen Zers, we now have this idea of you will affirm who I am right now, accept me, and change is actually the opposite of what love is.

Sam Rohrer:

Wow. Okay ladies and gentlemen, you may not have grabbed all of that with what Renton just shared, but we’ll go more into that. So our theme today for just joining us is this is love and the Gen Z problem. Alright, so we just touched on a little bit of the problem, described it a bit. In the next segment we’ll go more into where things have actually been shaped, what else has shaped technology was identified, but what else? And we’ll talk about that in the next second. Well, if you’re just joining us today, thanks for being on board. My special guest today been with me many, many times, generally once a month the way things work out and name is Dr. Renton Rathbun, he’s a speaker and a consultant on biblical worldview instruction for BJU press in addition to a number of other things as his own podcast as well, which we’ve mentioned the Lord is blessing that it’s geared to parents, grandparents too, but those with children helping them to traverse the many challenges to biblical worldview that is impacting their children.

And in part what we’re talking about today actually kind of falls into that. And our theme today is this love and the Gen Z problem. So we’ve introduced it, we’re going to build it out now a little bit more, but like all human conditions and when we talk about the human condition, it sure covers a lot of territory. We’re going to go into a narrow part of it. But as I consider this, the human conditions or desires that are a part of who and what we are, such as our focus today, love, there are numerous factors that contribute to the shaping of those views. We know from scripture that generations passed and back in the Old Testament and another generation arose who knew not the God of their fathers. And everything shifted. So in a generation things can dramatically change, not just views about God, but then everything.

So that being the case, when one looks at what those shapers are, they often fall into the category of, for instance, family and upbringing. Another one is cultural narratives and media impacts. And Renton just mentioned a little bit about the media economic conditions. They also can shape how people view and interpret things. Technology touched on, we’re going to build more on that, that’s a big one. Now, religion and morality obviously, and then social movements in the past, those are generally viewed as the primary shapers. But in the end, I’m going to say one’s definition of human traits such as loyalty or patriotism or commitment or duty or obligation. Those bigger things or our focus today love, it can change and change dramatically from generation to generation. I’m going to say the only place it does not change, I’m going to say is God’s definition as outlined and portrayed on the pages of scripture were, for instance, God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son. Alright, so Renton, knowing that the Christmas season is all about God’s love, which we’re going to focus on more in the last segment today. I’d like if you could define love as it is viewed by Gen Z, this generation we’re focusing on and build out a little bit more of what you shared in the last segment.

Renton Rathbun:

Yeah, so in the last segment I was talking about how sometimes movies kind of tell us where we are in society at the time. And if you remember movies from the eighties, you remember men pursuing women. And in that pursuit there was a major change they had to make in order to win that woman over. And so change became this view that if you change, the sacrifice will result in a demonstration of love. Well, as we get into the millennial generation, you see that love seems to revolve around this rejection of immediate change. There seemed to have been some kind of movement away from that. You see this throughout the churches that are run by millennials actually even today. They keep telling everyone that God loves you just the way you are. But eventually once we get you under our wing and all that sort of stuff, maybe you might consider some actual change.

So these churches are more like grace, grace, grace churches and don’t think of change that begins with God’s law. They see that as too harsh. It begins with this acceptance first. This is where you get hobby lobby creating commercials for the Super Bowl saying that God gets us as if God is winking at our sin. But as we get into Gen Z, we see another level, something that goes even further about this idea of being anti-change with Gen Zs. You see at least the ones that brought that have bought into social media and more woke ideologies, they are proclaiming that love is when you fully accept someone as they are and expect no change whatsoever. In fact, expecting someone to change is an insult. True love for them is full on affirmation. An affirmation then is at the heart of love itself. And so that is kind of how they are seeing it today. And so when you demand love or demand discipline or something like that, they actually are appalled by those things.

Sam Rohrer:

Let me ask you a quick follow up here just for a clarification. That seeking of affirmation, not no change required, are you saying that that is the attitude of this large percentage of Gen Z in regard to the other person? In other words, I’m going to affirm the other person and not expect any change in them, or is it that they expect affirmation from the other party with no expectation for change? Which one are you saying or is it both?

Renton Rathbun:

I think in the end, in a perfect world for the Gen Zer, it’s both that I don’t expect you to change, you shouldn’t expect me to change. This is who we are. We are firm in our identity because we live in this identity politic world. And so if you want to change my identity, you don’t really love me and their identity is caught up in what they have decided is true about the world. And so change is not welcome on either side.

Sam Rohrer:

Okay, well in the next segment I’m going to ask you because in that or any decision whether it’s the fact that you, I will change order to win your affection, your love or I am not going to expect you to change in what we’re talking about, any or each of those produce some implications, there’s some consequences that come out of ’em and we’re going to talk about that in the next segment. But let’s go back onto the shapers here At this point in the last segment you talked about generation Z being the first generation that their identity and the whole thing is in their hand in that iPhone they were almost born with it, they think and all of that kind of thing. So here’s my question to you. Of those items that I mentioned earlier as the normal shapers family and upbringing, cultural narratives and media, economic conditions, technology, religion and morality, social movements as an example, which of those, is it technology that has had the most dramatic input in shaping? Is it one of the others or is it something else? Not even of that.

Renton Rathbun:

There is, I believe this perfect storm happening. So you have these social movements that need political power so that they can be a movement and have money and be a force to be reckoned with. But in order to get there, you have to appeal to the human brain, which is always in narrative form. If you can create the best story, people tend to hold to the story even if it defies logic because in the end, God made our minds to think in terms of contextualizing everything through a story. And so when you have cultural narratives using these social movements, how do we get those social movements, those cultural narratives and all that brainwashing to the eyes and brains of the kids? Well, you have to use technology the right way and that is having command over the platforms that the kids use, social media platforms that they use and making sure the algorithms are doing what they’re supposed to do.

And those algorithms are designed to keep their eyes on the screen, their thumbs scrolling through their feeds and these algorithms place in front of them what they already long to see, which is something that comforts them, something that justifies their desires, something that as they’re ingesting it, they actually see. And this is the big movement that’s out there right now, that authority is actually evil. Authority is out to get you. And what we need to fight authority with is the individual. And this goes back to how these things work and what I was talking about before that they believe as they look upon the world of ideas in their phone, they believe they are the neutral one, they are the rational one, they are the one that hasn’t been tainted by what the world believes and all that sort of thing that they can actually come to this in an objective way.

And if you buy into that ridiculous lie, you begin to believe that authority is pushing bad ideas, but you as the individual, you are the hero and you are able to make discernment. And so you cannot trust institutions like the church or the family or organized religion. You can only trust yourself to a generation that fears risk. The way this generation fears that this places them in a driver’s seat makes them feel in control of the world because they are able to make these kinds of decisions. And if someone’s going to oppress you, you need to free yourself from that oppression because that oppression will always come in the form of an authority in your life. And so if you have these feelings or these desires or experiences that contradict what the church is saying or what your family is saying or whatever, you become oppressed and you must free yourself from that. And that is what the phones are teaching them.

Sam Rohrer:

Ladies and gentlemen, I would suspect that a lot of what Dr. Rathbun has said has not all been totally new to you because we’ve talked much about the impact of technology and all, but this is a different perspective here today and stay with us when we come back. I’m going to go a little further into the area and talk about the implications because if in fact this generation or since this generation has this thing in their hands that’s shaping them, what are the implications? Well, as we say so often on this program, choices have consequences and a similar, the same principle set a different way. In the book of Hosea chapter eight and verse seven, it says this, in effect, the generation that sows the wind will reap the whirlwind. And as George Barna has said so often on this program in which we have discussed here in depth, you do what you believe and in the end your theology determines what you believe.

Now of course, all these principles come right directly off the pages of scripture which consistently declares throughout as God did to his own nation of Israel and stated in Deuteronomy chapter 30, here’s verse 15 is the part where it says, God says, now see, I have set before you this day life and good, death and evil and said, and that I command you this day to love the Lord thy God to walk in his ways and to keep his commandments and it goes on and says some other things. And then a later verse in that same just a few verses on it says, God says, then I have put now before you choices two choices, life and death. God’s preference, choose life that you might live. Now Renton the decoupling, put it this way, the decoupling of choices from consequences, decoupling of sowing from reaping the same concept, it seemed to me to be one of the most basic deceptions that the devil loves to place before people when it comes to Gen Z and how they are defining and viewing love, what are the implications or some of the implications anyways of this choice?

And I say that because most of these kinds of choices that we have produce a short-term and a long-term implication. So what do you say

Renton Rathbun:

In the short term? You have young people and this is kind of what we will see from the outside. In the short term you’ll see young people working very hard to be inclusive. They will be very well-behaved people, in other words, within their view of love is this idea of affirmation. So they believe they’re showing love to their old fashioned parents who hold the old fashioned beliefs about Christianity by accepting them and their practices despite their, now listen carefully silent disagreements. So bringing up a disagreement actually in their view of love is going to be disruptive, it’s going to bring an argument, it’s going to bring some kind of reality that they don’t want to see, which they believe is not love. And so if I want to keep my love going and demonstrate love to my parents, I’ll keep my disagreements with their beliefs silent and in their desire to please their parents, which is a God-given drive within them.

Satan will use that in a way that will drive them to even sometimes agree with some of the rhetoric of Christianity and maybe even hold some generic kind of views of Christianity, but not the specific doctrines. The specific doctrines will be too harsh and too clear and rigid and in their rigidity they see that’s not love because it’s one thing to say, well, the Bible seems to disapprove of homosexuality. It’s another thing when you actually see what the Bible says and it says God sees homosexuality as an abomination, he despises it well that’s rigid. So they’ll hold onto a type of Christianity that kind of views the New Testament as kind of an apology, the old, and we’ll see what Jesus says. Well, Jesus didn’t say he despised homosexuality, so we’ll just go with that. And you see this recreation of Christianity so that in the long term this is what you will see.

You’ll see young people walking away from the faith with a kind of religion but without Christ in it because they were just trying to get along before, but now they know, and this is where our institutions of higher learning come in, they inform them that you have been oppressed within the Christian home and this is very tantalizing to them to feel that they were oppressed within the Christian community because it makes them feel like a victim. And victimhood is about the only way kids today know how to find their identity. So on. If they’re on a steady diet of social media in which all their heroes were victims and they overcame their victimhood and overcame their oppressor, they will long to imitate their heroes. And in that imitation they will view organized religion, particularly Christianity in the church as this oppressive entity that made them a victim. But their rebellion will help them overcome that so that in short, what you have is well-behaved atheists who are just trying to get along because their view of love is affirmation and not truth.

Sam Rohrer:

Alright, some people may be listening and saying, all right, now the focus appears to be on that Gen Z who may go to church once in a while may grow up in a Christian home. Alright, but what about those who are not in church at all or do not even construe themselves to be Christian? How do they fit into this whole picture we’re talking about?

Renton Rathbun:

Well, what we see is the research shows, and I believe this is from both Gallup and Barna and some others, shows that the males, the Gen Z males are actually becoming, no matter what their background or whatever they’re becoming more and more conservative, politically conservative. The females are becoming more and more politically liberal. Now what we’re seeing is that Gen Z, whether they grew up in a Christian home or not, are seeing things that as an individual they don’t like and they respond to, young men are getting tired of being called toxic. They’re tired of being viewed as the great enemy and plague of society. So they’re responding to that as any human would and saying, no, we have more to offer than that. And that naturally leads them to a more conservative political view. The young ladies are seeing a world in which they are being coaxed into being viewed as victims and that you are being oppressed by religion telling you need to have kids and being a kitchen, you’re being oppressed by men who just want what they want and you need to stand up and stop all of this and as an individual respond.

And that leads them of course to the more liberal side. But what both are doing is they’re both responding as individuals, looking as individuals out into the world and seeing how they might respond, what is not happening. And even though it might seem at first that this is good news that young men who are gen Zs are becoming more politically conservative, what we need to remember is this is not happening because they’re looking at God’s word and seeing what God’s word said. This is part of the whole red pill movement where young men are moving to listening to Muslims and how they view the world and how they view women because they’re so sick of being treated this way. And so this is not the answer. The answer is always God’s word. And so Satan will use whatever he can, even if it’s conservative politics, he will use it if it just gets kids to make decisions as an individual without God’s word, without the church, he’s happy that way.

Sam Rohrer:

Okay, just a few minutes left in a sec. Next segment, we’re going to go back. I’m going to ask you to define the perfect model of love, but within this concept we’re talking about, because you’re talking about, you mentioned conservative, you’re talking about authority and so forth. Go back again on love. Why is love the focus and the problem here? It seems like all these other things are also, I mean, can you disassociate the concept of wanting to be loved and valued from these other things that you’ve mentioned? It seems like they’re all kind of wrapped up together almost.

Renton Rathbun:

Yes, this is the thing. God made our world in one way and even though the world might rebel against God, they cannot help living in a created world that points one direction. And even though no matter what happens in every generation, no matter what it is throughout all the years at the heart of the decision-making we perform and the ideas that we go into through our philosophies or whatever it is, love is always at the heart of it because God created us in community and so as people that are built so that we long for a community in the family and we long for community with other because the greatest commandment is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. And the second is like it. It’s to love your neighbor as yourself. If I’m Satan, I want to try and get at those two greatest commandments, and the only way to do that is to redefine the central power of those two commands, which is love. If I can redefine that term, I can make people believe what I want them to believe and make them feel like they’re doing the right thing and that they’re following a tradition long in human history and make them feel justified in it. If I can just change the title or the definition of that word.

Sam Rohrer:

Ladies and gentlemen, hope this makes sense. All of us who have known love, we’ve often said here it’s very difficult to love if we’ve not tasted of the love of God. It’s hard to understand freedom unless we’ve been set free from sin. So all these things are connected. When we come back, we’re going to conclude with the biblical view of love and what the standard ought to be so we can help see this deception that’s swirling around. Well, as we go into our final segment, again, thanks for being with us today and hard to believe isn’t it, that we are so quickly approaching the end of this year. I just pray for all of you that as you travel, as you get together with family and make plans, many things happening already, just as we’re talking today, make sure do everything we can to make sure that the Lord is in fact at the center of all we do.

That’s not the focus of the world as we know. That is not what the media would portray. They’ll talk about Christmas, but they talk about the selfish aspects of getting something or who knows what, but it’s not the person, the central focus of Jesus Christ. So we have to be intentional about that. So I just encourage you to in all regards do that and to think that and make it a part of your gatherings and as we pray for each other and all of that, that that’d be a part of it. In addition, I would also ask that as we move through this month, and as you consider the giving of gifts and things that you can do that if God has used this program in your life at any time during the year or in any way, and there’s so many different ways that I know the Lord has done that, that I’ve heard from many people.

It’s amazing thing how many will write and say, I was dealing with an issue and I didn’t know what to do, and the Lord just turned on your program and there you were dealing with that issue been such a help. I’ve heard that many, many times during year. It’s an amazing thing. Anyways, things of that type, so you get the idea. So when we do these programs, we have no idea how the Lord will use it, but we know the Holy Spirit communicates truth and he will measure it out and deliver it in a way. For instance, his program today, hopefully this program today will be used in some way to help you as parents or if you’re a young person listening to think about the principles we’ve talked about. But in any regard as that happens, consider partnering with us more faithfully if you’ve never done it, if you have done it more faithfully in prayer, we need your prayer.

So very, very critical and also consider perhaps a year end financial contribution to it. Is that important? Yes, it is. Do I talk about it? Not no. Try not to. If I could just never say anything about it and just pray as I do to the Lord and say the Lord touch the hearts of those who are listening. That’s what I prefer, but I do mention it because it does need to be mentioned so that you understand that you are a part of God’s plan. If God’s using this program to help you, then perhaps you can be a part with us. Now, that being the case, Renton, as in all aspects of life, we as believers in Jesus Christ know that absolute truth exists. We say it, we know it does. As true believers, God is the author of truth that we know Jesus Christ is the embodiment of truth.

He has said that God’s word is the written truth. That is true. We know that all else beyond that is a lie. And though the devil’s deception contains oftentimes Psalm truth making it more deceptive, he is a rebel against the one and only true God, Yahweh. And he rejects his word as unchanging truth. And most people will believe this deception as true because some of it sounds good and it may be, but it’s not the truth. But the word of God makes it clear that anytime a person adds just one little thing or takes away one little thing, they think small from God’s word. It becomes a lie and it always has eternal implications. It’s a concept hard for people to grasp. But on this matter of love that we’ve talked about, take the balance of this time, if you don’t mind then, what does the Bible say about love? What is the standard, God’s standard for love, what it means, what it is? Compare, contrast that to these factors shaping the concept of love by Gen Z as we’ve been discussing today, which is so troubling.

Renton Rathbun:

The biggest problem we have in defining love is that we tend to define it as 21st century Americans. Instead of using God’s word, we long for love to be a concept. And as a concept, we believe anyone can participate in that concept. And we give you, for instance, the concept of grief. We have determined there are stages of grief. No matter who you are, when you grieve, you will participate in some way regarding those stages. Just something we can all identify with because it’s a concept that we can all grasp and we all participate in. But love is not talked about that way. In scripture in one John chapter four, it tells us what love is and it starts in verse seven. It says, beloved, let us love one another for love is from God. Now, this is interesting. If we just even left it there, we would start questioning, how does an unbeliever love?

If love is from God, do they participate in this love of God but remain unbelievers? Well, it actually answers that question. Love is from God, and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. And so now we see this absolute statement though anyone who loves is one who is born of God and knows God. And that makes us remember back in the gospel of John three 16 where we hear about love, where Christ is talking to a Pharisee about what love is, and he says, you must be born again. And you get all that understanding and then it even goes further. In one John, it says, the one who does not love does not know God, for God is love. Now, it’s important to understand that God is not made up of a bunch of concepts. Love is not bigger than God, and so then God participates in this thing called love, but God is love.

This means love is not a concept. It’s a person. And if you don’t have that person, then you don’t have love. Now, one Corinthians 13 tells us a lot of things about what love does. We find that if you have love, you’ll be patient, you’ll be kind, you won’t be jealous, you won’t be arrogant, you will not act unbecoming, you will not seek your own. You will not be easily provoked. You’ll rejoice in righteousness and truth and you will bear all things. You’ll believe all things you will hope all things and you will endure all things. But those are things that love does and what the world wants and what Satan wants is for you to think that you can produce those things, all those things in one Corinthians 13, and you can do it without God. You can do it your own way. In fact, the best way to get all those things that you want, enduring all things and believing all things and hoping all things comes from being affirmed.

And that absolute lie has been the lie that Satan has been using to try an absolutely destroy Gen Z. When you see all the different things people have been researching on them and showing that they’re not dating very much, they’re not engaging with each other very much, and there’s going to be a big deficit in marriage and relationships, what you see is Satan celebrating a lot of his work in trying to convince everyone that you can have what love does without the one who is love, and that’s the lie. But if you want to know what love is, it is the unity with God. What we see in one John four, seven through eight, if you want to know what love does, you can observe the activity of God and then imitate him as Ephesians five, one tells us that we are to imitate God because the Father loved us. The Son revealed that love in his work, and the Spirit gives us the power to love, and if we remember that we’ll understand love better.

Sam Rohrer:

Dr. Renton Rathbun, thank you so much for being with me today. God bless you and your efforts. He has a website, rentonrathbun.com with the Renton Rathbun show I talked about earlier. You can find that and so much more. Ladies and gentlemen, walk away from this program. What is love? Well, it’s not what is love, it’s who is love. Love is a person, Jesus Christ. If you know him and have trusted in him, then love and then you can love others. What an application. What a thought. See you back here tomorrow, Lord.