Lessons from 1,000 Sundays: Insights from a Lifetime Serving God’s People

Host: Dr. Jamie Mitchell

Guest: Dr. Erwin Lutzer

Note: This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program aired on 4/28/26. To listen to the podcast, click HERE.

Disclaimer: While reasonable efforts have been made to provide an accurate transcription, the following is a representation of a mechanical transcription and as such, may not be a word for word transcript. Please listen to the audio version for any questions concerning the following dialogue.

Jamie Mitchell:

Well, welcome friends to another edition of Stand in the Gap today. I’m your host, Jamie Mitchell. Today’s a special day as we’re going to be joined by Dr. Erwin Lutzer. Dr. Lutzer is the pastor emeritus of the Moody Church in Chicago, where he served as senior pastor for 36 years. He’s a prolific author, written over 70 books, including bestsellers. We will not be silent one minute after you die. And one of my favorites, Hitler’s Cross. A renowned Bible teacher featured on Running to Win and Songs of the Night with broadcasting to thousands of outlets, more than 50 countries and seven languages. And he and his wife, Rebecca, they reside in Chicago. They’re proud parents of three grown children, eight grandchildren, but we are just so thrilled. Dr. Lutzer, what a joy to have you on Stand in the Gap today.

Erwin Lutzer:

I’m so glad to be with you today, Jamie, and we want to give insight and hopefully encouragement, not just to those who are in ministry, but rather to everybody, even as we talk about the practical challenges of ministry.

Jamie Mitchell:

Well, Dr. Lutzer, there’s so many directions that we could go today because of your vast background and experience, but I heard you give this talk a while ago to a group of pastors called Lessons From A Thousand Sundays. What you share were insights that God had given you after decades of ministry. And it was so profound and encouraging that I want to spend our time today, but before we do that, I want our listeners to gain just a little understanding about yourself, your background. Where did you grow up? Were your parents believers? How did that affect you, your life, your ministry? And did you always have a sense of becoming a preacher? How did your early years shaped how and what you did today?

Erwin Lutzer:

Well, first of all, my parents were Germans, but they grew up in the Ukraine in Russia. So they came over independently after a lot of suffering during World War I. They became refugees, by the way, in World War I, because Russia feared that the Germans within their borders might mutiny. So lots of suffering, but they came to Canada independently. They met in a little church. My father had previously been converted. My mother was converted there in that little church. He walked her home and on the way asked if she would marry him. This is their first date. And she said she’d think about it, but three weeks they were married. They lived together for 77 years. Now, here’s the thing, Jamie. I actually was born on a farm in Southern Saskatchewan, Canada. I was the last of five children. My parents were believers. They always read to us from the German Bible.

We answered their questions in English, but nonetheless, they were godly people who had to basically educate themselves. Now, to your point about calling, early on, I was maybe 12 years old or 10. My older brother took us to a Billy Graham film called Mr. Texas. Now, I know that you haven’t seen it. Nobody has because Billy didn’t want it shown. That’s a separate story. But anyway, I came back hooked on Billy Graham. So my generation of teenagers was into Elvis. I was into Billy, and I think I made the better choice. So on my father’s tractor, I memorized scripture. I preached like Billy Graham, standing up and pretending I was preaching to thousands of people. So there was within me this feeling that the farm is not my destiny. I’m called to preach. So that happened at about age 14.

Jamie Mitchell:

Well, Erwin, we see so many pastors today that are getting saved later in life. And it’s a wonderful thing. I’m not in any way, shape or form saying there’s something wrong with that. But there is something about having a family heritage in the Lord and growing up in the church and all of that. Speak to that for a moment. That does mark ministers differently, doesn’t it?

Erwin Lutzer:

Oh, it really does. When you stop to think of it, the stability of the home is most important, I think, for growing up with a good sense of reality, a good sense of emotional stability. And we had that. And two of my … I have two sisters. Both of them are still living. They were missionaries, one in Africa for 30 years and the other in Mexico. And my brothers also were in various forms of ministry, so that takes care of all five of us. Now, the amazing thing is that I’m not sure if I mentioned to you that my father died at 106, my mother to 103. So Jamie, I always say that until my father died, my parents lived so long that I’m sure that all of their friends in heaven thought that they just didn’t make it, but they made it. They were godly people.

And so that was my heritage.

Jamie Mitchell:

Erwin, later on you become a pastor. As you reflect of those early days in your church growing up and the pastors that you had, obviously it was probably different than how you conducted your ministry, but what were some of the insights and the things that you took from those years in church, growing up, and the pastors that you had that affected you and deeply touched you and shaped your ministry?

Erwin Lutzer:

Well, we didn’t have much of a personal relationship with our pastors because we lived 20 miles from a church we attended. And during the winter, of course, in Canada, we couldn’t attend church. All of the roads were full of snow. But during the summer, we all packed into the same car and drove to church. The thing that I remember, I think, is the simplicity of the preaching. I remember that we as children had to be in the service. It’s not as if the children were removed during the service. So I don’t remember a lot of the sermons, but I began to like the fact that these men had an ability to speak and they had an ability to communicate. And I think in their hearts, they really felt a divine calling to preach. And that leads me, Jamie, to the issue of calling because I think that there is such a thing as a unique calling to be a preacher.

Jamie Mitchell:

And we’re going to talk about that because lessons from a thousand Sundays, we’re going to unpack the rest of this program, friends, is the insights that Dr. Lutzer has seen. And we’re going to talk about that issue and calling. Whether you’re a full-time service, a faithful member of a church, to realize how God has orchestrated your life, brought significant people, events, victories, all shape us. When we return, Dr. Lutzer’s going to talk about how those things shape our call to ministry. We’re learning from Erwin Lutzer today, lessons from a thousand Sundays here at Stand in the Gap Today. Well, we’re so honored to have Dr. Erwin Lutzer with us, and today our program is entitled Lessons From a Thousand Sundays: Insights From a Lifetime of Serving God’s People. Erwin, when I heard you share these insights, you started by talking about the idea of calling and having a clear confidence that God has led you to ministry.

Explain what you mean by calling and why is it so essential when serving God’s people?

Erwin Lutzer:

Well, first of all, Jamie, of course, we all want to emphasize that everybody is serving the Lord. And a number of years ago, there was a book written that said, “There’s no such thing as a calling to be a pastor because people are called to be plumbers and factory workers and so forth.” I understand what the book was trying to get at. It was uplifting every job done to the glory of God. But that being said, I do think that there is a special call to be a pastor and to preach the word. And I think that there’s a number of different qualifications that are needed. I think there has to be that inner sense, that divine calling woes me if I preach not the gospel, but that’s not enough. It’s a matter of making sure that your character is very important. And of course, we know that oftentimes there are those who are called, they are gifted, and we see the marvelous ministry that they’ve had, but when their character begins to fall apart, they don’t have the characters to support their calling.

The other thing, and maybe I’m getting ahead of your other questions, but I think it’s so important in addition to character, in addition to understanding the fact that we have to have the biblical qualifications, it’s so important that the body of Christ recognizes our calling. When I was about 16 or 17, actually, I preached my first message at age 16, but as I began to preach, say in my early 20s, many people would come up to me and say, “We believe that you are called to preach.” So I oftentimes say that there are many who think they are called, but apparently nobody is called to listen. So there has to be that calling, that character, that sense of competency also. And in this way, a person knows that this is unique. I am handling the word of God. What does it say in James? It warns that teachers are going to receive the greater condemnation.

They’ll have more responsibility. And I think that is certainly true when it comes to being a pastor.

Jamie Mitchell:

Erwin, that leads me to something that I see a lot across the landscape of the church, and that is many who do go into vocational ministry, whether it’s in the church or missions or that kind of thing, there is this self-appointment they have concluded. Now, it’s not bad to have an aspiration or a desire, but this idea of self-appointment can be a problem. How do we avoid it? Are there some practical things that we should be aware of when a person says, “I believe God is leading me to ministry”.

Erwin Lutzer:

Yes, I definitely think that there should be some safeguards. I have to tell you this about the ministry, and this will not come as a shock. There are many who are in ministry today who are quite narcissistic. And I have to tell you that the temptations of ministry are great because there are so many people who appreciate you. You receive these accolades of thank you because God used you to bless me and so forth. And the better you become known, pretty soon, you begin to look to your support for the praise of men. I was just reading in John the other day where Jesus said, “How can you believe if you seek the praise of men more than the praise of God?” And if you’re thinking about that temptation, there’s no place like it except in ministry because we are surrounded by people who appreciate us, who look at us differently.

And if we begin to get our sense of identity and value dependent on the fact that we have large crowds or large ministry, we’re in trouble and yet that’s the temptation of ministry. So in answer to your question, people who are in ministry, self-appointed, that is very dangerous. And I think eventually the holdings of their ministry will be revealed.

Jamie Mitchell:

How do you avoid that? You make sure you have people around you that are examining you. If a person comes forward, do they utilize the church and church’s leadership to help them to navigate whether or not they’re called, Erwin?

Erwin Lutzer:

Oh, yes, I think so. And I think there are really two questions that you asked there. One is, how do we navigate? How do we remind ourselves that we are to be humble in God’s presence? One of the things that I like to tell people is that you need a wife who is not impressed with you, because what we need to do is to realize that we are human beings subject to temptation, subject to failure, subject to pride. So on that side, that is very important. On the other side, absolutely. We need people also who affirm us and say, “This is your calling,” because I think it’s difficult to be out there unless you have the affirmation that comes from the body of Christ. So perhaps that answers your question, but I think that character, competence, calling, all of that is something that comes together.

Jamie Mitchell:

Well, Erwin, in your talk that you gave on lessons from a thousand Sundays, you followed up the calling issue and you made this statement that calling must be sustained by character. We’ve seen a rash of disappointments in ministry. How does someone be assured that the character is actually sustaining the calling?

Erwin Lutzer:

Well, I think ultimately it comes down to you personally. I mean, we’ve all heard of situations where a pastor has an affair that’s ongoing, that isn’t revealed, and so he continues in ministry, but I don’t want to get in too deep a weeds here, but I sometimes give a lecture on Moses who smoked the rock. He disobeyed God. Isn’t it interesting? He went from the presence of the Lord and the glory of the Lord, and a few minutes later, he was disobeying God, which is really an interesting insight regarding human nature. But here’s the other point, the water flowed.

People were happy if there had been a vote, whether or not they should keep Moses as their leader, he’d have gotten a hundred percent. And maybe there were some who said, “Yeah, but Moses disobeyed God.” And they said, “Who cares? Our kids have water.” So what that means is it’s also possible for a person to have results and yet not really experience the favor of the Lord. There are many different ways that people have said you can grow a church and of course God uses all these different ways, but what we need to do is to make sure that what we are doing is biblical and not simply that which works.

Jamie Mitchell:

In your lessons from a thousand Sundays, you later say that one of the strongest temptations, especially in ministry, is taking credit for ministry. It is true. God favors us. God blesses us, but boy, character is quickly seen in how you take credit. That’s one of the big dangers, isn’t it, about ministry, is the stealing the credit from God, isn’t it, Erwin?

Erwin Lutzer:

Moses, because Moses is standing there and God says, “Speak to the rock,” and he gathers the people together and he says, “Here now you rebels shall we get you water from the rock. Moses, who is the we? ” It was he and Aaron. He was taking credit for a miracle that God was going to do. It would be equivalent to the disciples taking credit for the resurrection of Lazarus because they took the stone away from the grave. I mean, we need to recognize that when God does something, God needs to get the glory. And when people compliment us and so forth, and as I say, we need their encouragement and certainly their prayers. But what we need to do is always pass that on to the Lord. I remember Tozer saying that even the donkey that went down the Mount of Olives knew that the clothes and the palm branches were not for him, but for the person who was sitting on his back.

And we must always give God the glory. And if we don’t, we’re going to be in trouble.

Jamie Mitchell:

Well, one thing to believe that God has a special purpose in our lives yet day by day, daily choices we make allows us to fulfill those purposes and make an impact. When we return, I want to discuss with Dr. Lutzer the role people have on our lives and how it affects our ministry. We’re in the people business, good or bad. Stay with us here at Stand of the Gap today. Thank you for staying with us here at a very unique Standing in the Gap today. Dr. Erwin Lutzer, pastor of the Great Moody Church in Chicago is sharing insights on serving God in what he calls lessons from a thousand Sundays. Erwin, ministry involves being with and engaging deeply with people, yet people can disappoint us and it doesn’t always turn out best. One of your lessons that I remember hearing were beware of toxic people, be careful whom you trust.

Your friend may turn out to be your enemy. Be careful whom you appoint as leaders. Those are all warnings. What insights have you learned in your thousand Sundays about people and how they affect ministry?

Erwin Lutzer:

Yes, indeed. How they affect ministry. First of all, we can’t really understand people unless we understand our own hearts. We have within us, every one of us, a potential of great evil, but what you need to do is to recognize that there are people in our churches who get their great sense of identity by destroying others. They are destroyers. So you have to be very careful about somebody who’s always right about everything and always needs to have his way because when that doesn’t work for him, if a decision is made he doesn’t like, you’re going to be in trouble. In Canada, there was a church where there was a church boss, and this happens usually in smaller churches where they have more control, though it certainly happens in larger churches as well. And he was the one who had picked somebody up from the airport who would be a candidate for ministry.

He would befriend them. His wife would babysit the kids of the pastor, and then in about a year or a year and a half, he would turn against that person and then use his clout to get rid of that pastor. That happened four times. And the problem is that the board doesn’t have the strength to discipline him. And the reason is because he was there when the church was founded. He gave a lot of money. His wife plays the piano. And so what you have is a situation in which he was a toxic person who needed that satisfaction that he was in total control. So sometimes there are people who befriend you, and it’s very necessary that you have friends. I had lots of friends at Moody Church, both within the staff, of course, and also in the congregation, and we all need that, but beware of people who will use the church and use ministry as an opportunity to promote their own egos because they are out there.

And once you get a reputation, let me give you a practical example. There was a man, a pastor who took his boy to a baseball game. It was the only baseball game they had seen that summer, but somebody called the church and asked to speak to the pastor. And the secretary said, “Well, he and his son are at a baseball game, where this person then became angry and spread the rumor. All that our pastor does is he’s at baseball games when he should be doing ministry.” So you have gossip, you have those who once their way is not seen clear, they spread darkness and criticism to others. They love to do that because it gives them a great sense of self-exaltation. And so that’s the way ministry is. You have to learn the fact that ultimately you aren’t going to please everybody. There are going to be some people who will not like you for whatever reason.

So just accept that. And as long as you have, in my opinion, the complete support of your board, which I think is very important, if you have that, you can weather controversy, but once the leadership loses confidence in you, it might be time for you to recognize that your days are numbered.

Jamie Mitchell:

Erwin, one of your lessons is that leadership should be a shared experience. Speak to that.

Erwin Lutzer:

Very easily, I can speak to that. At Moody Church, I pushed to hire a man who seemed to be absolutely, completely fit for the position that we needed in one of our ministries. And so we hired him, but it turned out that he was not competent and he couldn’t do it. Even though on paper, it seemed as if he could. And what this did is it made me realize this. I don’t have enough confidence in myself to pick a leader. What I need to do is to involve other staff members, to involve the board, because I noticed that there were other people who could see in others, see in someone we were going to hire what I might not. So my whole leadership style was consensus. Now, on a personality scale, I don’t fit the visionary, here we are, let’s go in this direction kind of pastor.

I was kind of passive, but God saw fit to bless the ministry, I believe, by his good hand, because I became a cheerleader for other people’s good ideas. So all that to simply say that in my view, ministry and decisions need to be made in consensus rather than having one pastor who says, “Well, I hear directly from God, and so he becomes the soul authority.”

Jamie Mitchell:

When you gave your talk on lessons from a thousand Sundays, I heard you say this, you said, “People don’t listen with their minds. They listen with their hearts.” I’ve always wanted to ask you to expound on that. What did you mean by that? How does that work? How does that affect how we then do ministry?

Erwin Lutzer:

If you don’t preach from your heart, people won’t hear from the heart. If all that you do is pass out information, mind to mind. People may say, “Well, that was an interesting sermon or this or that, but it won’t be transformative because transformation comes from the heart and they listen with their hearts.” I assume that people come to church oftentimes with their minds welded shut, and it’s our responsibility to preach in such a way that we get past that and reach their hearts. Let me give you an example. There was a pastor who was called because a parishioner had lost a child. I don’t know if the child died by natural causes or an accident or whatever, but the pastor said, “Well, we are going to be going on a vacation during that period of time, and so I can’t take your child’s service, funeral service.” Now, maybe the pastor said it wrongly, maybe he had a legitimate point.

I do not know the details. I only remember what the parishioner said after that. He said, “I continued to … ” The father of the child said, “I continued to attend church, but I never heard a word that the pastor said.” What he meant is, sure, he was listening, the words were washing over him, but his heart was angry toward the pastor, resentful, and so you can’t tell me anything. So all that to say, how do we do that? How do we reach their hearts? We have to preach with brokenness and humility. If we just see ourselves as above everybody else, not subject to the vicissitudes of life, we will not reach the human heart. And certainly we go through the mind, obviously we have good content, but it has to be heart to heart preaching in order that it’s transformative.

Jamie Mitchell:

You know, to do that, Erwin, there has to be a level of transparency and authenticity, but for some pastors, they might see that as weakness and even some parishioners, some people sitting in the pew may see that as the pastor just sharing his woes and those kinds of things, but it really is opening up your life to your people. I have to tell you, I go around to a lot of churches and part of the concern I see today, and I’d love for you to speak on it, is that there seemed to be a separation between the shepherd and the sheep. More pastors run to the green room afterwards instead of being around the people. We just have a few seconds left. That’s a concern If you really want to speak to the heart, you can’t be hiding in the back room.

Erwin Lutzer:

No, but you don’t have to reveal every last little bit. There are some pastors who overdo transparency, but what you need to do is to preach with a real sense of conviction and include yourself in everything you say. I used to teach preaching and I told the students, never say. Now what you ought to do is this and this. You always say we ought to do it. Bring yourself into it.

Jamie Mitchell:

Amen. Well, ministry would be fantastic. Someone said if it weren’t for the people who we minister to, that’s a problem. Well, when we finish up, a special word for pastors from Erwin Lutzer. Don’t go anywhere. Stay with us as we finish up this episode of Stand in the Gap today. Welcome back. We’re so glad to have Dr. Urman Lutzer with us today. He’s authored many books, both theological works, spiritually inspiring books, a number of historical books. Dr. Lutzer, before we wrap up, are you working on any new books? And if our people wanted to hear you or connect with your ministry, how can they find you?

Erwin Lutzer:

First of all, in answer to your question, I have just finished the manuscript on a book on Karl Marx. A year ago, I gave a lecture at his tomb in London. And when I did that, I realized he was a contemporary of D.L. Moody for 46 years. And believe it or not, Karl Marx’s companion, who helped write the Communist Manifesto, attended one of Moody’s meetings, fascinating stuff. So I go through the Communist Manifesto, the life of Marx, how it came to America, how a Marxism has come, a long chapter on democratic socialism and all of those things. It will be available to people on the 1st of September of this year, 2026. How can they connect? Well, they can go to moodymedia.org, moodymedia.org, or just type my name in. In fact, they could go to Google, type in my name and write Christian nationalism. And it’ll take us to a lecture that I gave in Hitler Stadium two years ago on Christian nationalism correctly viewed, incorrectly viewed, et cetera.

So it’s all over the internet. And if they search, I’m sure they can find something I’ve written or said.

Jamie Mitchell:

Well, Dr. Lutzer, you have just ignited an idea in my mind. I have a funny feeling I’m going to be reaching out to you next fall to do a program on Marl Marx because I know many Christians are not very savvy on Marxism, what he was spreading and how we even see it today, not only in our nation, but in many churches today. Erwin, as we finish up on these insights of a thousand Sundays, here are two, particularly for pastors to consider. You said this, you can fail in one place and be a success in another. And then later on you said this, “People will not remember your coming, but they will remember how you left.” Would you speak to the pastors who are listening today? How significant are those two insights? Build them out for us because I think there is some choice material that our ministers of God need to hear today.

Erwin Lutzer:

First of all, I remember a pastor who was asked to leave a church because his philosophy of ministry was different. He was more traditional. The church wanted to be more contemporary. So he left and he was really frustrated. He felt called to ministry. Well, he went to another church and has been a tremendous blessing and success. The church is growing. If I lived in his area, I definitely attend his church. And that’s a wonderful example that just because you perhaps are squeezed out of ministry in one place, it does not mean it’s the end of ministry. Now, if there are character issues, that of course complicates it, but I’m just talking about the reality of ministry that maybe you’re better suited somewhere else. Now to the other point, and this is how I end my list of 12 or 13 lessons from a thousand Sundays.

So this is a good place to end. People will not remember how you came. They will remember how you ended. There’s so many stories of pastors who lead their church into a building program. They have millions of dollars of debt, and then the Lord calls them somewhere else. And that’s what people remember. They remember how this person ended. I say this to the glory of God, God forbid that this should be about me, but I left Moody Church. I was 74 years old when I transitioned into Meritus status, which of course I still have in media ministry and speaking. But anyway, I left at a time when nobody wanted to see me go and I left the church without a dime of debt. We had borrowed money because we built a huge addition and that was paid for, but the old building, the beautiful old sanctuary needed repairs desperately.

And it seemed as if I was going to leave them with a debt, but before I left, a woman who had followed our ministry and appreciated it, left us her inheritance, and she passed on to glory. And as a result of that, I was able to tell the congregation, “We’re leaving. I’m leaving, but without any debt.” So my lovely wife, Rebecca and I, when we go back to Moody Church, we are warmly welcomed because it really is important how you end.

Jamie Mitchell:

You know what, Dr. Lutzer, I guess one final question. You speak to pastors you’re in churches now and you, I don’t want to say you’re old, but you’ve been around a long time. You’ve seen it all in many respects. I’ve had Jean Getz on this program and others like yourself have traveled the road of the church. In these final minutes, what encourages you about the evangelical church right now, but what is a concern? What raises up in your mind as a concern about the church today? The positive and the concern?

Erwin Lutzer:

Yeah, I’ll take the concern first. I’ll switch the order. My big concern is technology. We are growing a generation who no longer reads because they’re watching YouTube, and this has huge implications, huge, because there’s so many different things on the web that are good and we all use the web and so many things that lead people into evil. We are in the words of Huxley, a nation that is of slaves who believe we are free, and all the implications about that are staggering. So that’s my concern. What is hopeful? Well, there are ministries that are training young people, young men and women. Many of them are going back to church. I believe that God is continuing to call people into ministry. It is a difficult time and it’s going to get more difficult where we’re going to have to think through our level of commitment because either we’re going to be totally committed or we will float along the river with the culture.

And so I’m hopeful. I’m pessimistic about the world, but very optimistic about God and what he is still able to accomplish according to his will. So there are still millions of believers in America, many of them on their faces praying to God, and that gives me hope.

Jamie Mitchell:

Erwin Lutzer, you are a gift to the body of Christ, and we appreciate you taking an hour out of your busy ministry schedule to be here, to share lessons from a thousand Sundays. And the good news is there’s many Sundays that you’re still ministering in churches and pulpits and hopefully building up more of those principles. What a treasure trove of experiences and insights. Thank you for sharing them. Friends, as believers, we all have unique lessons that we’ve learned. God is now asking you to share them, to give them a way to encourage and inspire others. That is what God has asked all of us to do. And so look around your church. Be a blessing to those. Encourage your pastor. And until tomorrow, live and lead with courage and make a difference in someone’s life today. God bless you. See you again tomorrow.