Home Alone: Don’t Forget the Pastors’ Kids

Host: Hon. Sam Rohrer

Guest: Krissie Glass

Note: This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program aired on 4/21/26. To listen to the podcast, click HERE.

Disclaimer: While reasonable efforts have been made to provide an accurate transcription, the following is a representation of a mechanical transcription and as such, may not be a word for word transcript. Please listen to the audio version for any questions concerning the following dialogue.

Jamie Mitchell:

Well, good afternoon, friends, and welcome to another Stand in the Gap today. I’m your host, Jamie Mitchell, Director of Church Culture at the American Pastors Network. Many times on this program, we’ve discussed the unique challenges of being a pastor and the pressures that ministers of the gospel face while attempting to serve their flock. We also have weighed in on the burden that spouses of clergy face and the support of their role of their husbands. And there’s one other element of a shepherd’s home that also faces unique challenges, and that’s the children of preachers and missionaries. For years, counselors have told us the emotional, social, relational, and spiritual pressure on MK’s missionary kids was to be considered in attempts made to come around them and provide extra grace. And over the decades, the same concern has arisen towards the lives of pastors, kids, PKs. Nearly every dimension of their lives and upbringing faces trials and tests because of who their parents are and what role they play in the faith community.

Nevertheless, to say that every child and teenager and every family has the potential of struggles and some kind of danger, just think about it. Policemen, doctors, politicians, school teachers, and other high profile parents bring to bear on every child, pressures that they need to deal with. Every kid needs to manage and make it through whatever family God has ordained them to be a part of yet. There are some spiritually intense issues that PKs and MKs face than other kids. And certainly, it is different than any other kid in your church. And today we want to consider the children in ministry homes. The title of our program is Home Alone. Don’t forget the pastor’s kids. And to help enlighten us is Krissie Glass. Krissie lives in Fort Worth, Texas, her husband, Cameron, and she has eight-year-old twins. She is the ministry director of pastorskids.org.

It’s a ministry of care for pastors. She’s a faith-based counselor for PKs and pastor’s wives. Krissie Glass is also a licensed professional counselor, certified trauma specialist, life coach, and author. And she holds a master’s degree in marriage and family counseling, and she’s been on our program before. Krissie, welcome back to Stand in the Gap.

Krissie Glass:

Thank you so much for having me back. It’s good to be here and talk about this very important topic and address pastor’s kids today.

Jamie Mitchell:

Hey, Krissie, there’s a lot to discuss, but I want to start with this. When a church hires a pastor, there is an assumption with all parties that the pastor’s family will wholeheartedly be engaged in the church life. I know you’re hiring a pastor to do your job, but in reality, you get more than just the minister. Can you speak on that issue? What is the realistic attitude and assumptions and expectations that both a pastor and his family should have, and what can the church expect in return?

Krissie Glass:

Yes. This is a great question. And honestly, a question that most churches should ask when hiring a pastor. See, you do hire the family in a sense, not for the job and the title and the responsibilities necessarily. But as we know, being a pastor is more than just a job and a title. It is a calling and your lifestyle reflects that. And you cannot just clock in at eight and leave at five and then have the rest of the day to do all the things you need to do and to spend that time with family. Like I said, it is more of an on- call situation. The culture and expectation of a pastor and their family should be talked about with those who are hiring the pastor. I think that is an important conversation to have in the interview process with the pastor and with the entire family.

And I think there are so many unspoken expectations. I’ll talk a lot about expectations today and responsibilities that can really harm the goal of what a pastor is there for, to shepherd the people. And so I think that should be a conversation the church should have when hiring a pastor, but expectations and boundaries should be talked about within the home as well. And what does that look like? A lot of times, I feel like families are expected to serve and be a church all the time, and a lot of times they want to be, but that shouldn’t be an expectation when hiring the pastor, but it should be a blessing if they do serve. And that’s important to speak on and communicate from the very beginning with your spouse, with your kids. And oftentimes it becomes blurred and those roles and expectations become overwhelming.

Jamie Mitchell:

Krissie, is it fair … I know when a pastor comes and interviews at a church, a lot of times they’ll bring the wife in the interview process because they want to get to know her and get a feel for her and really where she’s at. And again, you’re hiring him to be the pastor, but she comes with the deal. Is it fair if a church is looking for a pastor to also engage with the kids and look at the family dynamic? And could that bear their decision making process on whether or not to bring a pastor to their church? Absolutely.

Krissie Glass:

I’ve been a pastor’s wife for many years. I am a pastor’s kid. My dad is still a pastor and I’ve been through several interview processes with my pastor husband. And honestly, I appreciate when they invite me into those. So I only know the people, but I know the expectations. I know what role they want my husband to play, but also what the possibilities are for me. Now, every family is different. And so it’s important to find the right place for the family and the right fit. And there’s a lot of pastor’s wives that work full-time and cannot meet the expectations that the church wants on the spouse or the kids. And that needs to be discussed. I think it’s absolutely fair to bring that up in the interview process and to revisit it after you’re hired. “Hey, this is what we can and cannot do.

This is what my spouse can and cannot do. “As a full-time employee myself who is a pastor’s wife, I have to remind myself what are my limitations within the church because of course my personality wants to be with the people, but we can’t expect that from every pastor’s family. And I think addressing that upfront is absolutely fair and helpful and healthy for the family that you are bringing on and bringing into your church life because it is not, like I said, an eight to five job. It is the whole family moving their life to create a life and a ministry there.

Jamie Mitchell:

And part of that is that the church, and especially the church leaders, will take an interest in the pastor, in his family, talk to the wife occasionally, talk to the kids occasionally and have that interaction. And it becomes a very, very healthy relationship and I think important for the longevity of the pastor in the church and for the family of the pastor to have a good attitude and a good idea about their church. It’s really walking a tightrope of expectation. The pastor and the family should be an example and a model for the rest of the church, but the church should never expect or assume that the family is required to perform as if they’ve been hired or they got the rest of the clan. When we return, we want to look at the unique challenges of that PK’s face as they are there with their dad as the pastor serving in the church and living under the scrutiny of being a pastor’s kids.

We’ll be right back here at Stand in the Gap today. Well, thanks so much for remaining with us for this important subject today. Krissie Glasses is my guess. And we’re trying to do a deep dive on the issue of pastor’s kids and the unique challenges and issues that they face. Krissie, I want our audience to start to grasp the what and the why of how difficult it can be to be raised in a pastor’s home. What are some of the unique challenges that PKs face?

Krissie Glass:

Yes. And I think it is a shock. It shouldn’t be shocking, but PKs, they are just like every teen, another kid, and they experience the things that other teens and young adults and kids experience, anxiety, depression, social pressures, even self-harm and gender confusion. But then you add about a dozen plus more issues that people around you don’t experience, that the regular or quote unquote, normal teen cannot understand that there are additional pressures. We call it living in a fishbowl that PKs feel like they’re constantly being watched and held to higher standards. They experience pressure to live up to their parents and the church expectations. And that’s what a lot of these PKs are feeling, but the hard part is they don’t have anyone to talk to. They can’t talk to their spiritual leaders in church because of gossip and what those leaders might tell their people.

They’re afraid their parents are going to get in trouble. If they do talk about their struggles, they’re afraid that their parents are going to get fired even. They feel and they know that the rules are different for them and that is so difficult to navigate. So as I’ve shared earlier, and I’ll continue to share, those expectations is one of the biggest struggles that pastors kids not only experience, but they battle through day to day. I’d say a second pressure that PKs face, which is similar to most people their ages is identity.

PKs get lost in what other people think because they’re so wrapped up and worried about it. They also have a very difficult time knowing what they personally should believe because they just adopt what their parents believe. That’s what’s expected of them. So it’s very important to ask PKs, “Hey, what do you believe about yourself? What is truth? And what do you believe about God?” PKs need the freedom to find that in their own life because it’s already preset for them oftentimes. And when I meet with PK day to day, this is what I ask, “Who does God say you are and who do you believe God is? ” And we have to go back to truth time and time again because they struggle so much because they live into a role instead of finding the truth for themselves. And oftentimes they just feel like they don’t have a voice to talk about these things.

That’s why pastorskids.org and care for pastors exist, so they have that safe place to talk through these things.

Jamie Mitchell:

Krissie, talking with my own son, having grown up and lived through being a pastor’s kid, one of the things he said to me that was always a struggle or a challenge that he had to deal with was that he’d be home and either my wife and I would be talking or he would overhear me on the phone and he would know things about people in the church that nobody else would know. And it wasn’t that we were breaking confidentiality. It just happened that he was there, he would see it, he would hear it. And he as a young person would have to contend with knowing something about an elder or another person in church or even his youth leaders. That’s a struggle that sometimes people in the church don’t fully understand that a PK faces, isn’t it?

Krissie Glass:

Yes. And oftentimes, like you said, your son was younger, it’s hard to navigate what to do with that information because I can school from my own experience as a PK, I would hear the same things and immediately I would be mad at someone who treated my parents poorly or said something about my dad and that would be my initial reaction, but I didn’t know what to do with it. And I didn’t want to burden my parents and talk to them about it or talk to someone else about it and get them in trouble potentially, but it’s a lot to carry. It’s a lot of weight to carry for PKs because they also oftentimes know they can’t go to that person and talk to them. So it starts this cycle of feeling like you have to keep secrets, you have to hide things, you have to carry it by yourself.

Jamie Mitchell:

Krissie, one of the things that I’ve heard from PKs at different times is quote, “Dad or the pastor is not the same guy at home as people may see on the job at church.” And with all the potential struggles that PKs face, inconsistency in dad or mom’s life and even in their family life adds another level of challenge here. Have you heard that and what is a pastor’s kid supposed to do with that?

Krissie Glass:

Sadly, I hear it often as I counsel with PKs, this is something that they bring up in our meetings and in our sessions. And I think there’s layers to this. There’s pastors who come in home and they’re so tired that they cannot be the same person. And I find myself needing grace for my own husband, who loves people so deeply and then at home gets so tired and he has to fight to spend time with our kids. He has to fight to not only share the gospel at church with the people that he ministers to, but to share and live it out at home. So there’s a lot of pastors who have a hard time being on the level. They can be a church, being on that level at home and they fight it. But then there’s the reality that pastors don’t live the same lifestyle outside of church that they do at home.

And I see families like that often, and it’s so hard to have a teenager know what to do with that. Unfortunately, we’re seeing more and more that pastors are living double lives. They’re failing and they are living completely opposite of what they teach. And I think that can be confusing for us in churches as we see our pastors struggling and failing, but think about the kids. And I believe most pastors aren’t that way, but unfortunately the reality some are, but we have to remember that no human is perfect. Pastors are not perfect. They’re people and the difficulty that PKs have is they have to hide it if they’re experiencing it in their home and what would happen if they shared about it. And oftentimes you also see they relate their parents’ behavior and those choices to who God is and to their faith. And I keep going back over and over is, what do you believe about God?

What do you believe he says you are? And it’s hard when you have a parent that doesn’t live the same lifestyle, but you have to remember that God loves them, that they are not God, they are human and unfortunately they don’t always reflect the truth of who God calls us to be. And so I said, “It’s a layered conversation, but it’s happening very much so a reality.

Jamie Mitchell:

Krissie, one of the things I’ve told parents over the years is that they, and this isn’t just pastors who are parents, but just parents in general, is that at some point in your life with your kid, your kid is no longer going to want to listen to you. You may say, “I’m the authority in that kid’s life,” but practically speaking, they stop listening to you. And so I always suggest, and I live this out myself, is to make sure my kids had good relationships or rapports with godly people who I trusted, godly adults who I trusted. And so my son could go and talk to different ones and I would encourage them and I would say to him, “Hey, listen, you’re not listening to dad right now, but I want you to sit down with so- and-so who you know and trust and can listen to.

That’s so important for all parents, but especially for pastor’s kids, isn’t it, Krissie?

Krissie Glass:

Yes. You want your kids to have a community of people that are speaking truth into their lives, that are pouring encouragement into their lives. And I want to just bring up the reality that not every pastor’s kid has that because parents are afraid if they entrust the information with the wrong person. And so yes, be careful, make sure they’re trusted. And again, that’s why Care for Pastors exist, because if you feel like you do not have that church, there are safe places outside of your church that can provide that. And ideally, yes, if you can find Godly leaders and people around you that can be that role in your child’s life, that is ideal and the number one option, but also there are other things out there if you’re not able to for your pastor’s kid.

Jamie Mitchell:

It is a challenge, friends, to be a parent in this day and age, that the things that are around our kids are difficult. But as a pastor, it does intensify because like Krissie has said, and we’ve mentioned here, for your pastor’s kids to share with somebody, to open their heart to deal with the things every kids grapple with, immediately it affects their view of the pastor and his ministry. Like I said in the opening, it’s tough to grow up in many different homes, but there’s unique challenges that TKs face. When we come back, how to handle major crises that hit the parsonage. All of us have major crisis in our home, but when it hits the pastor’s home, it is especially intense. Don’t go anywhere. Stay with us here and stand in the gap today. Well, welcome back. I’m so glad that you’re with us today and as we focus on the pastor’s family and especially on the kids of pastors, Krissie Glass serves with pastorkids.org.

She’s been a pastor’s kid herself, a pastor’s wife. She knows firsthand the challenges of living in a pastor’s home. Krissie, I want to deal with some harder things that may happen in a home and especially in a ministry home. A pastor and his family are not exempt from the real hard issues of life, such as a pregnancy out of wedlock or drug or alcohol addiction, struggling with same sex issues, even legal issues. And even when a pastor’s kid grows up as an adult child, there could be a divorce that hits that home. All of these things seem to hit a pastor’s home harder than other families. I got a couple of questions I want you to weigh in on it. Here’s the first question. Why is it harder on a pastor’s home when these kinds of things happen?

Krissie Glass:

Yes. It’s devastating for pastors and their families, I think, because people view and hold their pastors and their families to a higher standard. Again, there’s a higher expectation for their family, for their behaviors, for their decisions, for the things that they go through. And I think there is still a belief that this is our pastor, this is their family, and these things shouldn’t happen in their home. And I think that is a unfair expectation because again, pastors are people, their family or people send temps them and hardships and struggles are in their home just as much as any other, if not more, because I believe the spiritual warfare, and I can say that within our own home, is so strong. And I think it’s important for the pastor to remember that so they can be prepared and fight against it. But I think it’s important too that the church, the people they shepherd understand that as well, that they’re not exempt from pain and sorrow and sin.

And it isn’t bad to hold your pastor to a high standard, but it can be unfair when those expectations become unhealthy for your pastor’s family. I see time and time again that people are shocked when they find out these things happen in their pastor’s home and within their family. And I believe it’s more difficult on the ministry family because we ourselves, I can speak as a pastor’s wife, pastor’s kid, we hold ourselves to a higher standard. And so when something happens, we tend to hide it and we tend to carry shame of it, which as we know can be detrimental in the long run when we do that. But that is our first response usually because of the position that our spouses or the position our parents hold. But we also know that there’s freedom in bringing it to light, but we carry that knowing that it may have huge impacts on not just job, but all the things that come with the job.

That’s family, that’s insurance, that’s your home at times. And so if we struggle and if people know we struggle, then we have the potential to lose so much because it is all compiled with what ministry can carry and that job can carry.

Jamie Mitchell:

One of the things in talking with some lay people in churches, when these things happen, I’ve seen their reaction and I’ve said to myself, “Why are you getting mad at your pastor when these things happen?” And what they related to me was they, when they got honest, they said, “We’re mad at our pastor when his family goes through these crises because we say to ourselves, if it happened to them, it could happen to us and they start to even have some doubts of their faith and doubts and walking with God and does the Bible work and all those other things begin to play into the mind of the church when your pastor and his family go through a crisis.” Krissie, second question quickly, how should the pastor respond when these types of hard things happen? What’s a good response and what’s a bad response that could potentially make things worse?

Krissie Glass:

Yes. And thank you for sharing that. I think that’s valid. I think people need to share that this is what hurts them when a pastor struggles. A pastor’s response, and I think this is important for the pastor to realize and other people, is that it should hit the home first. The home is the first impact. I think a lot of times pastors go straight to, “Am I going to lose my job? Am I going to lose my ministry because of this? ” But I think it is important to redirect that what happens in the home and the family has the first impact. So I think it should be your first point of relief. So I believe that when something happens starting in the home is the first step. I think you should sit with your spouse and talk to your spouse about what’s going on and then if appropriate, your kids.

And I’m a big proponent of seeking help and accountability. And no, there will be consequences to some of these things, but that God wants us to be free from sin, from shame, from these things that might come into your home. And the only way to be free is to be honest, to be open and what that can look like and in the home and outside of the home. And so seeking help, talking through it and not hiding things, because when you hide things, they are most likely going to become much worse as we’ve seen time and time again, sadly.

Jamie Mitchell:

Honesty and humility is what I’ve told pastors. I know some pastors who’ve had some very difficult situation. They’ve had some prodigal kids and the first thing I said to them in talking, I said, “Well, how quickly did you go to the board and say, Man, I have a problem. I’m working with it. I’m dealing with it. ” And most times when they were hesitant, when they were slow to share, they were slow to be honest and really humble themselves is when things got worse. Here’s the final question. How should the church, especially the leaders, when a pastor’s family goes through a difficulty, they have a prodigal or some real tragedy, especially moral or a sin issue hits a pastor’s home, how should the church leadership respond? I know there’s always some bad responses, but what practically are some good things that a church leadership should do at that moment?

Krissie Glass:

Yes. And I think every church should probably have a plan in place. If this ever happens, this is how we want to respond. I think it’s good to be on the offensive and not the defensive, because you never know what’s going to happen when working with people. And I think the first thing that church leadership should do is pray, pray together, go to the Lord. First and foremost, and ask yes for guidance, yes, for the Holy Spirit to help give them wisdom on how to handle it, but go to the Lord and pray together because a church is so much bigger than one person. I think another thing is to remember to love them. It’s hard to like them, especially if it’s a moral failing or something you feel betrayed by. But I think this is a chance for a church leader to be church leadership elders and to be the church, to practice what they preach.

And sometimes it’s difficult, but it goes first to the pastor and to their family, not just the pastor. Don’t ignore the family in this. Your pastor’s family can be your number one mission field in that moment to love them well, and this is when they would need you the most, when they’re struggling. This is when you’re the church to them and that’s so important and yes, this is the church’s opportunity to live out the mission. And so having a plan in place, loving them well, communicating, yes, there might be consequences depending on the situation, but being proactive in that and yes, seeing them as God’s person, God’s beloved child too, and their family, and including them all in what happens next and not ignoring the kids in the process as well.

Jamie Mitchell:

So Krissie, we’re going to talk in our last segment about ways that the church can come around a pastor and his family and especially the kids But in this case, I would tend … I have a little saying that says clarity is not our enemy. And if a pastor in his family is going through a major crisis, sometimes we can keep it quiet. We don’t have to talk about it publicly. But I also think there needs to be a conversation with the church at some point because he is the pastor. And it can become a tremendous opportunity to model to the church how a parent handles these situations and how a parent can rely on the church for prayer, for support, how you humble yourself, how you bring community into it. And not looking for people to look the other way, but again, to use the church as God has intended it to be a family, a body, a group of people to provide help and care.

Listen, friends, bad things happen to good people. Ever heard that? It is true. And therefore we should not be surprised when a pastor’s family is hit with a crisis of some kind. Now, when we finish up, as I mentioned, what can the church do to help the pastor and his family and especially his kids? Don’t go anywhere as we finish up this really important conversation today on how to help pastors kids on Stand in the Gap today. Well, it seems that we never have enough time to get through all that I have planned, but I’m so appreciative of having Krissie Glass with us and her ministry with pastor’s families. Krissie, I want to end our program on PK’s pastor’s kids and help those who are part of the church and who have a pastor in their life. Do you have a couple, maybe three or four ideas that you can share that churches should consider doing to help their pastors and especially their kids to keep them healthy and encouraged and loving the church?

Krissie Glass:

Yes. I have actually more than three or four ideas. I’ll try to summarize a few because this is an important, an imperative question that I hope people in the church are asking. How can we love our pastors and their families better? And here are just some ways. Again, pray for them. That is a huge thing, but don’t just pray for them in secret. Let them know that you’re praying for them. I remember names of people growing up that would send me cards that would just call me and they would let me know, “I’m praying for you. ” There was no hidden agenda. They just wanted me to know that I was loved and cared for and that they brought my name to the throne room of God. And that made a huge difference growing up. And these were people of all ages. If you’re older in the church, you can send your pastors kids cards just letting them know and your pastor as well.

And of course, if your pastor, pastor, spouse, continue to pray for your kids, that they will know God closely and intimately, but also tell them you’re praying for them and specifics of what you’re praying for them about. I’d say for the church, to let your pastors have family time. That’s something we practice in our own home is healthy boundaries. Hey, we do not take phone calls between these times, unless obviously an emergency or something, but give your pastor that space to have that family time. We do ours at dinner and our devos at nighttime and we communicate that with our people. This is such an important parent and kid time. That family is a priority. And remember to communicate and practice that with your pastors. Let them have vacations. This is huge. The other day, I had a pastor who had planned a vacation for their family and the church said, “We don’t think you need this.

You can’t work that hard.” And I can tell you, pastor’s families work all the time. And the kids, there’s a lot of sacrifice. So these vacations and time together is so important. I also want to say, send your pastors and their families to conferences. For parents, I know the American Association of Christian Counselors have so many different workshops and things to help not only know how to teach your congregation these parenting tools, but also to teach you and help fill your cup when it feels empty. Another thing, I’m trying not to give too many, but ask how they’re doing. They may not always give you an honest answer. Probably will not be an open book, but they know you care because you continue to ask how they’re doing. And these are just a few ways. I tell parents in counseling sessions all the time, “Check in with your kid.” Just because they seem like they’re doing well.

It doesn’t mean they are. Always ask them how they’re doing and how they’re doing as a pastor’s kid. So those are just a few things. Again, like you said, there’s never enough time to discuss it all, but that’s a good starting point for conversation.

Jamie Mitchell:

I love those. And I’ll give you one other. My son, I’ll give you a personal example. My son started to have an interest in skiing and I have absolutely no interest whatsoever to ski. But we had a guy in the church who loved skiing and he had heard that Alex wanted to ski. And he came to me, he said, “Hey, I want to take your son skiing.” And he took Alex to a ski place for the day and showed him some things and just gave him a taste. Now, fortunately Alex came back and he said, “Yeah, dad, not so much. I’m not really into that skiing much.” And he gravitated towards the very gentle game of golf. But the fact of the matter was that that guy saw something and said, “Hey, I want to do something for your son.” Krissie, we got just a minute or two left.

One last question. Is it ever appropriate for the church to have an honest conversation with a pastor and even encourage him to step away for a time to focus on his family? As hard as that is, is that appropriate to do?

Krissie Glass:

Yes. I’ll give you a simple answer. Yes. I don’t think it’s just appropriate. I think it’s needed. We talked about pastors need accountability and sometimes pastors, it’s known in the pastoral circles that sometimes it’s hard making your family a priority over your ministry. And I think it’s important and necessary for the pastor to be reminded, “Hey, your family comes first and don’t burn out, spend time with them, love them because if the family is not healthy, the church family will not be healthy.” I’m a strong believer in that. And so absolutely the church needs to have these honest conversations. And again, being proactive and not reactive, talking to them before anything needs to be talked about and making sure these things are in place before something does happen.

Jamie Mitchell:

Yeah. And you know what? If a church will do that and the kid watches that and sees the church family is not punishing the father or the family, but they’re really concerned, it can help with resentment that may grow in their kids’ life. I got one last funny story, is that I had an elder meeting one night and the chairman of the elder board meeting came to the meeting and we had our agenda and he said, “Well, look, I have one more thing I want to say.” I said, “Well, what’s that? ” And he said, “Well, I have a concern. There is an elder on this board that has denied one of our church family members from being baptized.” And I was incensed. I said, “Well, who is this? Who said that, that somebody can’t be baptized?” And he looked at me, he said, “You’re the man, pastor.” And I said, “What?” He said, “I was talking to your son, Alex, and he knows the Lord, loves the Lord.

He wants to be baptized. And you’ve said to him, maybe you should wait till you’re really ready.” He said, “Pastor, I got to tell you, your son is ready. That kid needs to be baptized.” And we all kind of laughed at the elder meeting, but I was so appreciative of that elder taking an interest in my kid and talking to him. And as a parent, I was very cautious. I didn’t want to see my kid get baptized too soon, but it was a funny story in relationship to the kind of relationship that a church should have with a pastor’s family and give encouragement in that way. Christie, thank you so much. Our people can find out about you by going to your website and I believe it is pastorskid.org. Is that correct?

Krissie Glass:

Yes. Or you can visit careforpastors.org too. That’s for pastors and pastor spouses and then pastorskids.org is for pastor’s kids.

Jamie Mitchell:

And they can go there. They find a ton of resources, help, and they can find somebody even to talk to what a blessing you are. But for sure, why not right now, friends, take a moment and by name, pray for your pastor, his wife, these kids by name, they’re grandkids. And remember that we at the American Pastors Network, we’re here for pastors. If your shepherd is struggling, encourage him to reach out to us. Until tomorrow, God bless you. See you back here in 23 hours.