Health Freedom: The Coordinated Attack Continues

Host: Hon. Sam Rohrer

Guest: Twila Brase

Note: This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program aired on 5/18/26. To listen to the podcast, click HERE.

Disclaimer: While reasonable efforts have been made to provide an accurate transcription, the following is a representation of a mechanical transcription and as such, may not be a word for word transcript. Please listen to the audio version for any questions concerning the following dialogue.

Sam Rohrer:

Hello and welcome to this Monday edition of Stand in the Gap Today. And it’s also our monthly focus on Health Freedom with Twila Brase, president and co-founder of Citizens Council for Health Freedom with their website at cchfreedom.org. I will give that again throughout the program. With so much happening around the world and over the weekend, for instance, that 8.8 magnitude earthquake in Russia over the weekend. Incredible. 8.8 to the renewed threats of imminent destruction of Iran by Donald Trump and Bibi Netanyahu, both who have threatened again to actually begin the heavy attacks. Successful, big, need to be noting them by Ukraine against Russia, particularly in Moscow. Some major things happening there just overnight. So there are many places that we could go today based on just current headline news, but I’m not going to go those directions. Although on Wednesday of this week, the Lord willing, I will cover things related to the Middle East, Israel and prophecy and Iran all whatever’s happening at that point.

My guest at that point will be Chris Katulka, Vice President of Friends of Israel Ministry will be with me that day. Today, however, Twila and I are going to revisit the critical area of public policy and concern frankly to all people and that is that of healthcare freedom or health freedom. Today we’re going to examine a few of the areas where since our last time that 12 hour together have seen some changes in the matter of healthcare freedom. And that is the fact that it continues to be attacked and undermined and it’s something that all citizens need to be aware. A couple of those things with changes in Medicare and Medicare advantage, particularly patient health data transfers or information that’s important to all of us, health data and whether so much anticipated gains expected by so many people from the MAHA movement that Make American Healthy Again movement, what’s actually happening there?

Is it actually progressing or is it fading away before our eyes? We’re going to touch on all of those things in today’s program. So stay tuned as we focus again on health freedom. The title I’ve chosen to frame today’s conversation is simply this, health freedom, the coordinated attack continues. And with that, I welcome to the program right now. Twila, Twyla, thanks for being back with me. Always a pleasure. And our listeners I know always love having you on.

Twila Brase:

So great to be here. Thanks so much, Sam.

Sam Rohrer:

Yep. You’re welcome. Twila, in this first segment, I’d like to get your overall evaluation of, I’m going to say the trend that we are witnessing in regard to health freedom. That’s your area of focus. You’ve been in it like no one else has and so there’s nobody better to ask than you. So here’s a question. Are we trending toward regaining lost freedom? Because we all know we’ve lost so much of that. We talk about every time we’re together or continuing to move in the direction of less health freedom. So which direction are we going? What trend? And for the sake of getting us on the same page, here’s the definition I’m going to use for health freedom. It’s patient control over care, reduced government payer interference, stronger patient health data privacy and physician autonomy. Now it may be more of those Twila, but that’s where I’m going to go right now.

So edit my definition if you want, but here’s where I’d like you to go. Based on our view of history, rank the recent administrations in regard to health freedom of what now stands out when we look back and put them in this category. Overall, did they undermine health freedom? Was the administration neutral or did they maintain freedom or strengthen it? So start with Clinton, go to Bush, then to Obama, then Trump won, then the Biden one-

That’s a big one, but see what you think.

Twila Brase:

I’m sorry?

Sam Rohrer:

I said go ahead. That’s a big task to do, but I think you can do it. Go ahead.

Twila Brase:

Oh yes. So unfortunately I don’t really find a neutral or a maintained or strengthened. I think what I’ll do is just give the short little litany of undermined. And so since you started with the Clinton administration, well, the Clintons obviously brought us Hillary care and you may or may not think that, well that was then it never happened so no big deal. But the fact of the matter is lots of pieces of the Clinton Health National Health Security Act actually were implemented in the following three to five years after it failed in Congress. So actually huge things happened as a result of it. In addition, it was Clinton who signed HIPAA into law and so that really began the end of medical privacy in this country. Then George W. Bush, he put the electronic health record in his speech. It was considered a coup by those who were trying to get him to talk about the need to digitize data.

So just one little line, but that was the beginning of moving all of our medical records into electronic, digital, shareable cyberspace essentially. And then there was an executive order as well that created the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology and so that is who is orchestrating the digitizing of all of our data. Then President Obama came by, he mandated that not only the data be digitized, but put in these electronic health records and then there was Obamacare and then there was just an entire revamping of where healthcare is going. A lot of people don’t know that there were millions and millions of dollars for nurse practitioners in Obamacare. And so when you see this outgrowth of nurse practitioners, this is one of the things and nurse practitioners are great, but corporations are using them to replace doctors and they’re not the same training at all.

Then there’s Trump number one, the whole COVID debacle operation warp speed where all the vaccinations was a fine thing, I suppose, to put it out there, but not the way it was unsafe and untested and it was a really great thing because people started taking it and then he didn’t shut down Fauci, didn’t shut down Birch. And I think from my perspective, Trump has never been his forte really healthcare. So I just think he was caught off guard by COVID. And then Biden, of course, he used COVID to really take away all our rights. There’s vaccine injuries as a result, moving towards the vaccine scorecard passport. Here we go. And then all of the COVID area subsidies. Now of course, Congress put those in place, but he did sign those bills. The men expanded Obamacare coverage and really just more of an onslaught against private insurance in this country.

Sam Rohrer:

Okay. So as you say, bottom line, every one of them, you didn’t say quite this way, but every one of them undermined health freedom. I’m going to say ladies and gentlemen, each one did their part, but note under both administrations and during the balance of the program, I’ll ask Twila to give comment and it’ll come out, I think, of where the Trump two administration is and what’s been happening and what do we know so far in these last two years. Stay with us as we go further into this program, Health Freedom, the coordinated attack continues. If you’re just joining us now, welcome aboard. This is Stand in the Gap today and my special guest is Twila Braves. She’s with me generally once a month and our theme revolves around her area of expertise and that is Health Freedom. Twila is the president and the co-founder of Citizens Council for Health Freedom with a website at cchfreedom.org.

A lot of information on anything related to what we’re talking about today and so much more if it has a component that touches on health freedom involving a number of things we’ll be talking about here. You’ll find it on that website and encourage you to go there to look at that. When examining the current state of health freedom, and I gave a definition in the other segment that’s based on the definition of the various elements of patient choice, physician autonomy, strong privacy, minimal external interference, those components in particular, it becomes clear that the greatest pressures to me anyway, seems to be not necessarily driven by one single person or agency or some actor, but more of a systemic structure operating across the breadth of the healthcare landscape. And that was part of the reason I asked Twila her view on whether or not the previous administrations going all the way back to the Clinton administrations, how she would rank them from the standpoint of undermining healthcare freedom, neutral or strengthening, and she put them all in the category of undermining.

And that’s why it’s important to understand big policy changes that we have seen have been pretty much consistent under regardless of what administration it is. Congress has done pretty much the same thing relative to all. They change names, they point fingers, but at the end of the day, we’re now $40 trillion in debt and the central government controls more aspects of our life than it ever did and it happens under all of them. So that was part of the reason I ask about that, but it’s a systemic point, my point being they’re operating across the breadth of the healthcare landscape and it almost seems to be regardless of party. Now chief among these is the central role of payment authority where government programs such as CMS, we’re going to explain that a little bit and private insurers effectively determine which treatments are financially accessible or available, outcomes shaped by somebody else.

I’m going to leave out some of these things, but it involves a range of things, including we’re going to talk in the next segment about AI now getting into the picture, databases being linked, electronic health record, all those things that are being linked together we’ve talked about in previous programs. There are multiple pieces is my point for saying what I’m saying. It’s more of a systemic thing that’s happening across the board, but it’s been occurring regardless of administration or party. Now, Twila, with that kind of compressed view in place, I want to ask you now to comment on an area that’s come to the attention of your organization. It’s on your website and that’s the area of Medicare and specifically Medicare Advantage, which you’ve talked about in depth on this program before. But one of those deals with what is known as the, it looks like Wiser Pilot WIS, small E capital R Wiser that’s made to look kind of unique, but Wiser Pilot Program.

Tell us what that is and why people should be aware of it.

Twila Brase:

Yeah. So Wiser stands for wasteful and inappropriate service reduction. And so this Wiser program is really using AI to review and pre-approve or deny a list of specific services in six states in original Medicare. So this is an important distinction. So with the two parts of Medicare, original Medicare, which I call the freedom version of Medicare, you have A, B, D plus a supplemental policy and then there’s a Medicare Advantage version, which is the rationing version, we get all the money and get to decide whether or not you see a doctor and here’s your limited number of doctors you can even have. Okay.

Dr. Oz really wants Medicare for All, Medicare Advantage for All and Dr. Oz is now the administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services and so I think this is coming from him. And so under Medicare Advantage, it’s prior authorization that you have to go through to figure out whether or not what you need and want can be paid for and received. But under original Medicare, you don’t have prior authorization. You can go to any doctor, any hospital. About 98% of all doctors and hospitals take Medicare and so you can go to any of them without getting somebody’s approval. Well, in these six states using this WISER program, they are bringing to original Medicare prior authorization. So they’re going to prior authorize in these six states a certain list of medicines procedures and care that you want. And it is a specific list, but in my opinion, this is the camel’s nose into the original Medicare tent.

The six states are Arizona, Ohio, Oklahoma, Washington, Texas and New Jersey and already in Washington a report has come out that people are waiting three to four times longer than they used to wait because of the wiser program. And so they’re being denied access. It’s being delayed. They’re having to appeal whatever the process is. But all of this, the reason you should even pay attention to this is I believe this is Dr. Oz’s plan to bring Medicare Advantage, the rationing version into original Medicare, the freedom version. Start with a little list, start with six states and then build the list and expand the states eventually until there is no original Medicare and everything is Medicare Advantage with a network, with prior authorization, with limits on care, with denials. And I do believe that’s where this is going now. There is a lawsuit, physicians group, I believe, brought this lawsuit and so we will see where this lawsuit goes, but this is a bad thing.

If they want to just save money in Medicare, rationing care is not the way to do it. Actually letting people leave or letting people use their own money or to give people block grants from the government to go find a real health insurance program. There are lots of ways,

Sam Rohrer:

But

Twila Brase:

This really is moving into the rationing realm and they’re using AI to review and pre-approve or deny these services.

Sam Rohrer:

Okay. We’re going to talk more about AI in the next segment. Ladies and gentlemen, stay with us because it is really infusing everything related to health and everything beyond health as well. Another area that you’ve identified is that there’s a piece of legislation. I don’t want you to tell us about it. It’s in Congress. Congressman David Swikert evidently introduced it where four million Americans who come of Medicare age each year, and that’s an interesting number, four million. So that’s a lot out there. But according to this would be forcibly enrolled in a corporate healthcare plan, which obviously that’s not a good thing. What’s this legislation all about and what should our listeners know about this?

Twila Brase:

So this is again, Medicare Advantage. So Congressman Schweikert in Arizona, he has a bill and it is a very short bill. I don’t know if it’s even more than five sentences long and it would essentially, people who turn 65 in the future if this passed, people who turn 65 would be automatically enrolled in Medicare Advantage, the rationing prior authorization networked version. And then there’s apparently would be some sort of opt-out possibility, but that’s not clear at all in the bill. He’d probably let the administration figure that out. But anyway, and then you’d be locked into Medicare Advantage for three years. Now this is HR 3467 and it’s really just kind of sat there. However, in project 2025, which was issued by the Heritage Foundation, when it talks about Medicare, it says that Medicare Advantage should be the default version of Medicare. This is coming out of Project 2025 by the Heritage Foundation and now this is what the Trump administration is starting to trumpet.

And so the head of the Medicare director, Chris Klump, he was giving an interview and he said that the administration is thinking about auto enrollment, auto enrolling people into Medicare Advantage. And then of course you could get out, you might be only able to get out maybe in the first month or two once you figure out that you’ve been enrolled in Medicare Advantage, but now it’s up to you to one, figure it out, two, figure out what you can do about it, three, figure out, is this a good idea or not? And you never had a choice, right? And then you have to get yourself out. So this is, like I said, this is all about this whole movement to get rid of original Medicare and turn everything over to the corporate health plans who are doing Medicare Advantage on behalf of the government. Now these health plans are making money hand over fistful doing this and according to the, I can’t remember if it’s the Office of Inspector General or somebody at the federal level, maybe it’s a CBO.

Anyway, 14% more is what the health plans receive per enrollee than is the money that we pay as taxes to somebody who is in original Medicare. So that means that the health plans are getting 14% more for every enrollee and 56% of all

Medicare age Americans are in Medicare Advantage. And so the health plans, this is an amazing amount of money. They get extra above and beyond and then they have a network and they have full power to control your access to care or deny access to care.

Sam Rohrer:

Okay. With that, Twila, excellent. Then we’ll come back and we’ll go further on that, ladies and gentlemen, in the balance of the program. Medicare Advantage, think rationing and it’s being pushed hard as we speak. We’ll be back in just a moment. All right. We’re continuing now on this program, our theme, Health Freedom. That’s our focus today. My special guest is Twila Brase and her website that you can get a lot of information on all of the things we’re talking about in more depth than even what we’re going into is at ccfreedom.org. But one of the areas identified as a great benefit to health freedom and improvement in the provision of healthcare, at least that’s what government is saying, is AI. That’s what they’re saying. Great improvement, creativity, efficiency, improvement in healthcare across the board. That’s what they are saying. No doubt that’s what you have heard.

Already though, according to publicly available data, AI is embedded throughout the federal government with various degrees of usage. That is that way because the president and the administration, those around him are into AI on multiple levels and it’s being pushed as if it is the salvation for modern government. Many agencies of federal government today are in pilot phase programs such as the one that was even mentioned the wiser pilot program that Twila just talked about in the last segment. One thing though that can be said, if you do any kind of searching, you will find this. There is one single company and this is not going to be our focus, but one single company by the name of Palantir run by Peter Teal started by the CIA and the largest contractor to this company being the Department of Defense. Now, Palantir, this company, also has contracts to analyze cross department and cross database integration within and outside the federal government.

Now these are agencies of the federal government that officially have official contracts with Palantir, Department of Homeland Security, Health and Human Services, Department of Justice, the IRS, Social Security Administration, FBI, ICE, Department of Treasury, Department of Energy, Department of Veteran Affairs, Department of Transportation and by necessity and very clearly this company, one company, Palantir, also has full access to all data available by CMS. That’s the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services to which we’ve already referred, literally guaranteeing that confidential health data is accessible, these are my words, literally accessible to the world. It’s there. It’s sitting in this company is contracted to analyze and cross compare data across all of these sectors. Now you can only imagine what could potentially go wrong with that. In another program, I’ll deal with this more. But Twile, another area where Medicare Advantage policies are changing involving where AI, where we’re talking about now is being introduced further, whether entire databases of patient records were recently, you have it on your website as well, was recently transferred to a private entity which by its very nature is a threat to health freedom.

So tell us about this, who it affects and why it’s an issue.

Twila Brase:

Yeah. So the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, they contract and they selected Oracle in February of this year. And so all of Medicare and Medicaid’s mission critical systems that process and manage enrollment and store personal data and financial data of more than 150 million Americans, all of that is going onto the Oracle cloud. Now there are several interesting things about this. One is that Oracle was founded by Larry Ellison. And if you don’t know Larry Ellison, it’s a name worth looking up because his whole goal is for countries to unify all of their data and to be consumed and used by AI. Another interesting thing about Oracle is that the executive vice president for health at Oracle is Sima Verma. And she was the former CMS administrator or Medicare administrator under President Trump in his first term. And so what you have here are really big powers moving to take the entire Medicare, Medicaid data and put it on big cloud servers, make it available to AI.

It’s all of our personal data. Who knows what’s in there that’s available, but for them, this is a business and it’s a very profitable business. And he’s really looking at governments handing over their data to all of these AI data centers being built around the country that have become confrontational and controversial issues where they are being rolled out or being built. And so what we’re really looking at here is the government doing something. You talked about Palantir, but also here Oracle at the health level and Oracle also has one of the largest electronic health data systems in the country.

Sam Rohrer:

See, no, that’s interesting. And ladies and gentlemen, just for the sake of it here, I’m going to give you just a little bit of research that I have done. Twila, you could give all of this, I know, but we’ve referred to this one group. Twila referred to it and I did too, CMS. It is the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. Now some federal government sources and things I’ve pulled together, I asked for what all does this group sit over to give you an idea of the data involved, because we’re talking healthcare now, but it says it’s the federal agency that runs and regulates the core US government health insurance system, Medicare, Medicaid and related programs and plays a central role in how healthcare is funded, managed and monitored. This includes the Affordable Care Act, CHIP Children’s Health Insurance Program. It’s often referred to as the entry point where patient care data often becomes federal data, that transfer part, probably HIPAA, I’m going to say no doubt there, but CMS provides or overseas coverage for over somewhere between 100 and 160 million Americans.

So it is a big, big deal. Twila, that gets into the whole idea. You’ve got the data, you’ve talked about it before. You mentioned earlier in the first segment, electronic health records, the move to digitation years ago. Now we’re further down that track. Now you’ve got this thing called AI. Now you’ve got companies like Palantir being hired to represent all of the agencies and they’re cross referencing data all across the different agencies, which used to be in the past unlawful. Now it’s done almost by contract, but it brings up this further aspect I want you to comment on and that is this, once you have things digitized, which it is, and I want you to talk further about that. Now you’ve got this system, this AI system that’s going across the spectrum of all of the data and connecting all of these things. How do you see this hard push by the current administration?

Because there’s no question about it. The president met with these AI big boys the day after the inauguration. Larry Ellison was in, he was one of those guys in that meeting from Oracle. The members of the administration and the president are pushing like warp speed in order to “stay ahead of the Chinese.” And that’s how it’s being sold, but it is happening at lightning speed. All right, so here’s the question. What is taking place here and how do you think this can go anywhere other than further undermining health freedom as we further embed AI and cross connect all the data that we used to think was private?

Twila Brase:

Well, the Trump administration has this health tech ecosystem in which they say it’s voluntary, but they have all of these groups and corporations who have signed on because of course, if you want money, the place to go is to get a government contract. And so if you look up health tech ecosystem, you can actually see all the data companies, all the partners, all the other corporations that have signed on to be part of this initiative. Health data is considered a goldmine. Some people have called it the oil of the 21st century. And so there’s so many people making money off of it and now we’ve got AI and everybody is into AI. I don’t know if there’s going to be an AI bubble burst at some point here, but the fact of the matter is this is a computer. This is a computer running things.

This is a computer shorting data. This is a computer that some people think we should all listen to. This is the way to do business in the future, but this is also a computer that hallucinates and if it doesn’t have enough data, it just goes, finds data and it puts things together, even though they don’t make sense. When it comes to healthcare, AI is coming into healthcare in very big ways, including in the exam room where people are starting to see signs that talk about ambient listening and that if you stay in the room, it’s considered consent to ambient listening. And so they’re going to feed in the entire conversation that happens in that one It’s confidential exam room and feed it into a third party who will then generate some kind of report on what happened. But all those little quips that you might say a little conversation or argument you might have while you’re sitting there talking to your child or a husband or a wife or whatever could all become part of a record and you didn’t know it.

Sam Rohrer:

Okay. And ladies and gentlemen, we’re out of time. Ladies and gentlemen, you get the idea. Does that contribute to confidence, privacy? No, it doesn’t. It’s tacked off. We’ll be back in just a moment. Well, as we go into our final segment again one more time, Twila Brase is my guest again today and the website that you can go to for her is citizenscouncilforhealth- cchfreedom.org. As we wrap it up, we’re talking today and we always do about some aspect of health freedom and those things which impact our ability as individuals to go to the physician that we want to go to and that physician to be able to freely spend the time that they want to with us and recommend and diagnose and help us the way they want to and enter into that agreement. It used to be that we would just give them cash and pay them for their service and all of those things that we remember that used to make American healthcare the very envy of the world, but it’s changed, hasn’t it?

So part of the reason for me asking Twila to kind of go back to the days the administration of the Clinton administration and then Bush and then Obama and then Trump won and then Biden and then now was that to demonstrate that changes that we have now, whatever they are, good or bad, didn’t just start yesterday. They’ve been happening. But when it comes to healthcare and most of anything that I’m going to say that we view as freedom in any area, it was once there, but it’s been under attack. And what Twila basically said was that none of those administrations could you identify other than doing something to undermine health freedom, which brings us to today. And now we’ve just been talking about AI, which takes all of this data that’s available and puts it into people’s hands to do different things with. And anyway, so much of an issue.

So ladies and gentlemen, that’s where we are. Now as a part of the whole aspect of this administration, when it comes to health, staying on focused on health and health improvement, there was what is called the MAHA Movement, the Make America Healthy Again Movement. That was in effect a Robert F. Kennedy concept. It was merged into then candidate Donald Trump’s MAGA movement of which the president has often repeated that he alone created. I’m talking about MAGA and then he said he owns it and he singularly defines what it means. No, my comment, that’s what he said a number of times. But into this MAGA moment came the MAHA movement defined generally as quote a health focused initiative and movement centered on addressing chronic disease in the United States and reforming health, food and public health systems. That’s generally the definition that would describe MAHA. Then on February 13th, 2025, it was established by executive order, established this, quote, the Make America Healthy Again Commission.

That executive order did that February 13th, 2025 and it put that commission underneath the Department of Health and Human Services over which Robert F. Kennedy sits. Okay. Now all that being the case, try to take an add or subtract from that any way you want to make it more clear. But here’s the question. Is the MAHA movement achieving its promises because there are a lot of expectations, you and I have talked about some of them on this program. And so here’s the thing, is it achieving its promises? If so, which ones, if not, which ones are not? And then you can maybe wrap it right into this. Is it happening or is it potentially that President Trump is finding the MAHA support fading away? So wrap those together.

Twila Brase:

Well, one thing that I would say is MAHA had a lot of different things under it and you kind of mentioned it. And so when you look at what happens and can happen at a federal level and you look at the executive branch and you look at Congress and you think, well, which of those could do that? And so if all we have is the executive branch doing something, we can have it do something for a while, but if they can’t actually get something through Congress, it might be very short lived. Now with vaccinations, you can see that Kennedy put a lot of time and attention on that, but even I don’t think it even got to where he wanted it to go. He had to couch some statements. I think that maybe he would have said differently, he would have made it stronger. Instead he’s like, “Well, vaccine choice is good.” So I think you find out once you get into that whole realm, what you can and cannot do.

But the other thing is if you’re looking at public health and you’re looking at food, people can make choices and chronic disease is related more than anything to genetics and lifestyle. And of course you have food and you have the air and you have the water and you have all of this sort of thing, but probably most of the chronic conditions that we have today are genetics and lifestyle so behavior, right? So there’s a lot that people can do that government can’t do and including we’re not going to buy any food from you because of X, Y, and Z. Well, the companies get that message really quickly and if buying drops off of certain products or campaigns are started or whatever, they will change.

There’s only so much that can be done at a federal level. I have to say that when you just look at the American population, like where are we all spending our time and where is the recess and where is the outside time for children anymore? It’s all in front of computers and phones, right and people come into and they just want a pill to fix conditions rather than changing their life and everybody is really, really busy and what if they had to pay their own medical bill, would that change things? I mean, I just think it’s one thing to just look at all of this and say, “Well, let’s see if we can impose some changes.” But really the biggest change agent in this country is the American people themselves who actually decide to do something and right now I think they don’t pay their own medical bills.

Everybody’s attached to their phone. I think that pendulum might change in time because you can already see it. You can see children being given a different phone or parents say no to children or some people are just going back to track phones. I think there are some things changing as people realize how much of their life they’re just leaving behind because they’re spending all of this time and all of that time on a phone does not get you exercise or eating right. So I think there’s just so much that could be happening with behavior and that Kennedy and Trump and the Congress can’t really do a whole lot about that. They can do some, but it’s the American people who have to make a different choice.

Sam Rohrer:

I think you make a very, very great point because everything I said, I mean, who can dispute that, Twila, but are there structural things that HHS could do or Congress could do if they would do it that you would identify?

Twila Brase:

Well, there certainly are reporting things like, I mean, how many people are looking at labels now? People are actually looking at labels and that is something that Congress did certainly to make sure that there is actual research on the vaccinations. There really isn’t real research on all these childhood vaccinations. Taking those vaccinations off the childhood schedule, stopping the payments for them, deciding a conversation between a patient and the doctor as to whether they’re going to have a vaccination because once you put them on the childhood vaccination schedule, the pressure is on for everybody to get them and the pressure’s on for every doctor to give them in order to be a quote quality doctor that gets good quality marks as long as they’ve got all of the patients vaccinated. So there are things that could be done to really take the pressure off and bring choice back in and more information.

Sam Rohrer:

Okay. And with that, Twyla, we’re out of time. Thanks so much for being with me again. Again, her website, cchfreedom.org. Go on our website, you can pick up this program again, listen to an audio form and also the transcript and read along with it. I think that might be helpful. Thanks for being with us. Join us again here tomorrow.