The SIGT Radio Hosts are joined by guest George Carneal who shares the story of his journey from homosexuality to Christ.
Sam Rohrer: Well, today on Stand In The Gap Today, we have a most unusual but very, very important program. We’re going to hear the true life story of one man’s experience into the gay lifestyle. You heard that right, into the gay lifestyle. And we’re going to talk about the emotional ups and downs. We’re going to talk about his decision as an adolescent, growing up in a Christian home, and then the realities and the horrors of the sexual bondage that he experienced in the homosexual lifestyle. But then, not to stay there, we’re going to talk about the hope that he ultimately found in a new life of spiritual freedom because of Jesus Christ. An important program, I hope that you stay with us all the way through. And with that I welcome you to Stand In The Gap Today. I’m Sam Rohrer, and I’m going to be joined by Dr. Gary Dull.
Sam Rohrer: And, in just a moment, we’re going to talk with our very special guest for today’s program, George Carneal. He is the author of the book From Queer to Christ: My Journey Into the Light. That’s the name of the book. And we’re going to talk. And because of the nature and the importance of this program, I do encourage you to stay tuned for this entire program. Perhaps call a friend right now and ask them to join you in listening to this gripping testimony and the story of hope for a man caught in the bondage of homosexuality and the gay lifestyle. Our theme again for today is this, as I’m terming it, From Sexual Bondage to Spiritual Freedom: A True Story.
Sam Rohrer: Now according to the Pew Research Center, who did polling in 2004, they say this, “American’s opposed same-sex marriage by a margin of 60% to 31%. Support though for same-sex marriage has steadily grown over the past 15 years. And today, 2019, support for same-sex marriage remains near its highest point since Pew Research Center began polling.” Based on the polling that they said they did, “A majority of Americans,” Pew is saying, “61% support same-sex marriage, 31% oppose it.” Now the public push, ladies and gentlemen, we know to embrace transgenderism, the objectives of the LGBQ lobby for the American culture, to embrace this as a fully-acceptable approach to life and the homosexual and lesbian lifestyle choices, we know this has divided our nation. It’s driving public policy. It’s even shaping preaching on matters of marriage and human sexuality from the pulpits of America. In reality, I think most people are afraid to discuss this very real issue. They don’t know how to discuss it. They don’t know much about the issue or perhaps the implications of it. They don’t understand it and are therefore more driven by media and their interpretations than real-life experiences and what God says about it.
Sam Rohrer: So today, on the program, we’re going to talk now with George Carneal about his life story, what he experienced. And in segment three, we’re going to give advice and counsel to parents and grandparents of children who’ve pursued the gay lifestyle or perhaps considering it. And then we’re going to conclude with giving true hope and freedom to the man or the woman caught up in the gay lifestyle. And, with that, I want to welcome to the program, really for the first time, George Carneal. He’s the author of the book From Queer to Christ: My Journey Into the Light. George, thank you for being with us today.
George Carneal: Thank you for having me on the show.
Sam Rohrer: George, we have far too much to cover in an hour. We’re going to try and focus and just walk this through in a way that provides you the opportunity to explain, but also to give insights to our listeners on a most important topic. George, you grew up in a Christian home. In fact, your father was a Baptist pastor. So you knew what the Bible says about God’s design for marriage and human sexuality within the framework of male and female. So let me start here with this question to you. How was it that you came to the point, in that setting, where you began to consider the gay lifestyle? How old were you when you began to question God’s model for marriage and human sexuality as male and female?
George Carneal: Well, all I knew was that in first grade I was attracted to a little girl, but I was also attracted to a little boy. And I didn’t understand where those feelings were coming from. Because I had such a disconnect from my male peers in my elementary school years and on through school, and I was constantly verbally and physically abused… I had one guy who threatened to slit my throat. Being called faggot, sissy, queer, homo, a lot of these painful things really caused a lot of inner turmoil because I didn’t understand why do I have these feelings for guys. In addition to that, going to church where ultimately I would hear the sermons on Sodom and Gomorrah, there was an anger that started to build inside of me because when I would hear how some of the mean-spirited Christians would say that God has destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because of sodomites and the perverts, I knew inside I’m struggling with this and yet God apparently hates homosexuals so much that he would destroy two cities because of the homosexuals. And this really brought about a lot of pain within my own heart and my soul. And I really thought that God had already hated me and condemned me prior to me really moving into this life. So I was really in a lot of turmoil and struggle.
George Carneal: But what happened was, with the disconnect with my male peers and then just going through all of this and trying to figure this out, it really laid the framework or the foundation, because of the disconnect, that when I finally walked into a gay bar and found this affection or this attention from men that I had longed for my whole life, it wasn’t the right kind of attention I needed but it was giving me something that I craved, and therefore I really just fell into the bondage of that life.
Gary Dull: Let me jump in here just a moment, George, because we can get into that as the program goes on. But ultimately you did decide to leave home and enter the homosexual lifestyle. My question is how old were you when you made that choice? And, ultimately, why did you decide to walk away from your parents and from God’s model? And then, when did you know you were making a choice to counter what God had laid out in his word?
George Carneal: Well, understand, it wasn’t so much that I was making a decision to be rebellious. If we remove the spiritual aspect from it for a moment, if we look at this as human beings, we all want someone to love and we want to be loved. So I was really looking at it from that standpoint in that I want to be cared for and I want to care about someone. So I walked into that life just thinking I’m going to find this perfect gentleman and I’m going to have a stable home environment and have someone to love me. It took going into that life to realize that that’s really not how it’s going to work out. So, yes, when you hear Christians say things like, “Well, God hates fags. God created AIDS to kill fags. God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because of fags and God hates you. You’re going to hell,” I already had no hope. I had already just figured out in my mind as a child, “Well then God hates me.” So there’s no hope for me. So God just really didn’t become part of the equation anymore. I actually told him at one point, “Well, I hate you then. If you hate me, I hate you.” And that’s why I just fully and freely went into the gay life.”
Sam Rohrer: George, what you’re laying out there is a most interesting perspective. And again, we’re going to get more into this with you as we go forward.
Sam Rohrer: Welcome back to Stand In The Gap Today for a most important program. Our theme today is From Sexual Bondage to Spiritual Freedom: A True Story. And we’re talking with our guest today, George Carneal. He’s the author of the book From Queer to Christ: My Journey Into the Light. And George, we’re going to get back into it right now. The cultural pull into the gay lifestyle, the Supreme Court ruling in 2015 that marriage between two men or two women was equal to the marriage of one man and one woman, the attempt to make American culture to believe that there are not two genders, male and female, but a range of genders one could choose from, the whole transgender movement right now, to actually some jurisdictions… Just the other day one I saw made a ruling that you can now go back and actually change the birth certificate to read whatever gender they might choose.
Sam Rohrer: This whole thing has brought confusion. And I think at perhaps worse, ladies and gentlemen, deception into the minds of particularly our young people who are determining who and what decisions they’re going to make for life and are being led into the supposed freedom and glamor of the gay lifestyle. But what is that gay lifestyle? What’s it really like? We’re going to talk now to George about what he actually found. So George, you’ve written a book entitled From Queer to Christ: My Journey Into the Light. I think the title gives a clear insight into the recognition that the gay lifestyle is perhaps not as enlightened as it appears in the media and Hollywood makes it find out to be. But from your perspective, when you made a decision to step into the gay lifestyle, where did you go? You made that decision, and how did you do that? And this question I guess here, what were you hoping to find when you stepped into the gay lifestyle?
George Carneal: Well, when I went into the gay life, I was really just hoping to find stability and find others like me and to build a network or a community of friends, or more like an extended family. And for some reason I thought there was going to be utopia in the life. I didn’t understand that with that life comes the pitfalls of the pornography, a lot of sexual promiscuity, drugs, alcohol, et cetera. I became so ensnared in that life and developed a sex addition, and within three years I was battling drugs and alcohol. [inaudible 00:10:18] the sexual addition, I had become a male prostitute. I was suicidal and I eventually did attempt suicide. It was not bringing me the joy that I thought, but sadly it was going to be another 22 years before God would start to move me out of that life.
Gary Dull: George, as you looked at that particular type of lifestyle, the homosexual lifestyle from outside, what was it that you saw that thought would bring you stability and strength if you got involved with that? I mean you talked about that a little bit and that’s what you expected, but why did you have that expectation?
George Carneal: Well, I guess I was just assuming that if heterosexuals could get that, if they could have the father and the mother and their kids and their home in the suburbs, I just thought perhaps I can get some semblance of that in the gay life. I just thought, “Well, I’ll find the perfect guy and we’ll get our own home and have a stable environment.” Again, I was really searching for love and something that was stable. And it’s not something that you will find in the gay community. I know some of the activists or those who are in the life will attack me and say, “Well, that’s not my life.” But what I’m saying is the norm, it is not the exception. And I’m certainly not attacking LGBT individuals. I love them and I want them to be honest about that life.
George Carneal: But sadly, in today’s culture, Hollywood will lift up the Elton Johns and Ellen DeGenereses and say, “See how happy they are. This is a glamorous life.” The media or the advertisements show these beautiful, hot guys holding the alcohol and they’re in the pool and everybody looks great and happy. But what I exposed in my book is the reality of that life and what happens once your looks start to fade, the addictions that come about, the brokenness of so many individuals, and what you can expect when you are an old man sitting in a bar getting drunk because nobody wants to have anything to do with you. That is the reality of that life. Not to mention the countless number of lives I’ve seen destroyed because of murder, drug overdoses, AIDS, and suicide. It’s a deathstyle. It is not a lifestyle.
Gary Dull: And so of course we would encourage people to get your book and even go to your website. And I’d encourage you to keep that before our people. Maybe you can give that at this point, if you don’t mind. And then I have a follow-up question for you.
George Carneal: Okay, my website is georgecarneal.com. And I wanted to say, in the book, toward the end of it, I actually list all of the talking points that the LGBT activists or even the liberal pastors use to say that we are under grace and that it’s okay to be a homosexual. But these were lies that I had bought. And I went through a lot of confusion and despair but God showed me the truth of that. And perhaps we will discuss it later, but I actually put those talking points in there and debunked them with Scripture to help the Christian individual. Because if they can see and hear or understand what the talking points are, then when they’re trying to witness to that individual and they use these, you can lovingly tell them the truth and debunk it with Scripture.
Gary Dull: I have a quick follow up, George, on what you just said a moment ago. You said that you were actually looking for some stability in a homosexual relationship. So let me sort of make a fine line of distinction here if I can. Were you drawn stronger toward the homosexual relationship or did you just want love and stability that you thought a homosexual relationship would bring to you in a much greater way than a heterosexual relationship?
George Carneal: For me, because I grew up in a different era, before the internet, when I moved into the gay life or if you were to meet with someone it had to be done in the form of hookups. So you never really got to know the individual. So I really had a disconnect in terms of how to even have a relationship with people. But when you are in the gay life, it is a very promiscuous life and you never know… I mean I’ve had so many boyfriends who would cheat on me. Or I knew of couples who had been together for a long time and I thought, “Oh, that gives me hope that it can be found,” but eventually they would disclose that they had open relationships. And I really became disillusioned with it. And I’m not picking on the LGBT community, because we know even in the heterosexual community there’s a lot of cheating.
George Carneal: But the point is is that in this day and age of where there seems to be no commitment, no stability, and people just have this free sex and I just do what I want, it became very discouraging for me. Because also in the gay life, you never know whether that next encounter, when you have it, is this going to be a death sentence in that you contract HIV. So there’s a lot of things and factors at play that just bring about a lot of anxiety and depression being in that life. Because so many of them are really unhappy, they just don’t want to admit it. It was not bringing me the utopia that I thought it would, and I had to start getting honest with myself and asking myself, “Why am I still miserable and depressed and suicidal?”
Sam Rohrer: George, this is just really excellent. The insights are just suburb here. I want to go back and follow up just a little bit more on what you’re saying. Because you referenced earlier when we watch TV, when we watch Hollywood movies, all that, it’s the strong guy with the muscles, has the liquor in his hand or whatever, at the pool, and it presents a glamor situation that all would be fine. And you’re saying that’s exactly the opposite of what’s there. So let me ask you this, you’ve identified some downsides. You’ve talked about the potential of AIDS and suicide. And you talked about drugs and sex addition and alcohol and so forth. Just to be fair, on the other side, did you find any upsides? In other words, you’ve described some downsides, but are there any upsides for a person looking for joy and fulfillment and that kind of thing in a homosexual type relationship?
George Carneal: The upside to having been in that community, and I want to say this especially to the parents who are hardhearted and you find out your child is LGBT and you kick them out of the home. That is the worst thing you could do because they are going to be devoured by the community. For Christians who push these people away, you are pushing them into that life where they’re not going to have any godly influence. The upside to that community was that I was meeting other gay men, and women as well, or lesbians, but I was able to develop some real friendships, almost like an extended family, because so many of us who go into that life come from really broken homes or environments.
George Carneal: Now thankfully my parents were still together and they loved me. They made it clear, “We don’t approve of it,” but they still loved me. But I could tell you some heartbreaking stories of so many of my friends when they tell you how family members and even Christians treated them. It would just bring you to tears. And that’s why I’m asking Christians and family members to know this. God has not given up on the LGBT community because he’s bringing so many of us out of that life and we are sharing our stories. God loves us. He is not homophobic. He doesn’t have an ax to grind with the LGBT community. He doesn’t hate us. Jesus died on the cross for us as well. And God is rooting for us. He loves us and he’s trying to help, he’s delivering so many of us out of that life because it is misery and bondage.
Sam Rohrer: George, you only have about 30 seconds here right now, but I got to go back. We’re going to talk more in the next segment about advice to parents. But you talked about your family. Many come from broken homes, but it doesn’t sound like your home was broken. Was there some aspect of your family while you were growing up that you did not feel the kind of love there that one would expect to find?
George Carneal: Just real quickly, I would say because of my father’s ministry and the demands, he was gone a lot. So I think I was also still missing that male bonding with my own father. And that may have played into it as well. But he wasn’t abusive or anything. He loved me.
Sam Rohrer: That’s interesting. Ladies and gentlemen, we’re going go into the break here right now. We’re talking to George Carneal. He’s the author of the book From Queer to Christ: My Journey Into the Light. And just sharing from his heart his life experience. And I am hoping and praying and trusting, we prayed before this program begun, that God would use it to help minister, encourage and edify so many who are listening to this program who may be touched with someone in your family, a child, a grandchild or young children who may be wondering, “Well, can I just select what gender I want to be and how I want to live my life?” Those kind of questions are what we’re trying to talk about in the program today. A real-life experience from a person who made that decision but then found freedom in Jesus Christ. We’re going to talk now to parents and grandparents in the next section. [inaudible 00:18:55] we’ll talk about this with you.
Sam Rohrer: Well, welcome back to Stand In The Gap Today. I’m Sam Rohrer, accompanied today by Gary Dull and our special guest, George Carneal. And our very important theme today, one we’ve not discussed before, certainly in this fashion, on this program. The theme is from Sexual Bondage to Spiritual Freedom: A True Story. And we’re dealing with the issue today of the gay lifestyle from the eyes and the perspective of a man who, as a young boy from a Christian home, decided to leave and enter in to the gay lifestyle. We’ve talked about what he expected: love, community. But what he found, really the opposite. He did find some friends, but at the end of the day he found, as he said earlier, temptations to suicide, to drug usage, and alcohol usage, and sex addition, and a whole host of things that was not what he expected. And now the Lord has delivered him from that. And in our last segment here on the program, we’re going to talk about how he did find that hope and that spiritual deliverance.
Sam Rohrer: I’m going to go right back now to our special guest. George, you’ve really shared some wonderful information with us from a perspective that most people don’t have. But we were talking about your parents. We were talking about the fact that you were raised in a Christian home. Your father was a Baptist pastor. You said that perhaps he was gone often, a lot, and maybe that contributed a little bit. You didn’t have a strong relationship that developed with him. He wasn’t abusive to you. It wasn’t that kind of a problem. But you may not have had as strong a relationship as you perhaps had wanted. But you’ve now gone through the process, you’re now out of the lifestyle. You’re trying to speak about the spiritual delivery that God can bring. But you have some very specific advice here I know for parents of children who possibly have stepped into the gay lifestyle or grandparents who have grandchildren who are there. How do we deal with this circumstance? And do we deal with the young child who’s maybe going into schools and being confronted every day with that fact that you can choose what gender you are and it makes no difference?
Sam Rohrer: So let me start right out here. For the parents, George, or the grandparent who already has a child who perhaps has stepped into the gay lifestyle or maybe they’re young and they’re experimenting with it. They don’t know what to do. Maybe they’ve publicly declared their choice, maybe they haven’t yet, to embrace homosexuality. What do you say to that parent or that grandparent? And you already touched on it a little bit. But should they run from it? Should they engage it in discussion? How should they deal with a child who’s already made a decision or the one who perhaps is deciding or thinking about maybe pursuing the gay lifestyle?
George Carneal: Oh, there’s a lot of information I would love to tell, but I’ll try to make it brief. I would encourage pastors, and especially parents, to ask your pastors and Christians to have people like me speak in your churches, first of all, to warn these kids and to give this information to parents, whether it’s me or anyone else. I want to say to the parents that the hardest part that you’re going to face, and this even happened with my father and other Christians who would talk to me. I’m not thinking about it from a spiritual perspective. You’re telling me I need to leave a life, and I have to think about the fact that I’m going to grow old and be alone. That was so devastating for me to hear that it would make me more depressed. It would make me feel hopeless. Again, we want to love and be loved. So there is this dilemma. I want to please God and I want to love God and I want to serve God, but I also want to love and be loved. And I’m being told you can’t do both. So that would send me down a path of despair and hopelessness and suicidal thoughts.
Gary Dull: You know George, we are living in a strange time. And part of that strange time in which we are living is that children are being told that they can choose whatever gender they want to be and they can choose whatever kind of a lifestyle they want to choose. And I don’t know how many genders they say there are right now. It’s just very, very confusing as we look at into the world. What would you say to a parent or a grandparent who is trying to bring their children up in the things of the Lord, but yet they are under so much pressure from the school or society around them to have that freedom to choose their own gender or that freedom to choose their own lifestyle? What kind of direct advice could you give to parents and grandparents who are facing that even right now as we speak?
George Carneal: Well, there are plenty of transgender individuals on social media, especially YouTube, who are sharing their testimonies and sharing the trauma of what they’ve gone through trying to take hormone shots and actually doing the surgery. You can’t change your chromosomes. You can’t change your DNA. They knew that they were living a lie. They knew that they weren’t the gender they were transitioning to. But they talk about the horrors, almost feeling like they were guinea pigs, and then have now transitioned back and God has delivered them from that life. But there is a price that they’re going to pay for actually doing these shots and doing these surgeries. Because what the medical community, for the most part, and the gay and trans right’s activists are not telling you are the cost of the surgeries and the toll it’s going to take on your body. Because your body cannot withstand continually taking those hormone shots and all of the abuse from the surgeries and it’s not going to come home somewhere to roost. You’re going to pay a price for that. It will not bring you the happiness and joy that you think it’s going to bring.
George Carneal: If it was true, there would be nobody transitioning and coming back and speaking out about the lies of the trans agenda. Even in the homosexual community, it’s the same thing, the media feeds the lies. But until parents start getting involved on the school boards and stopping the agenda from being in the schools, because they’re going to go after the kids. And these kids are already confused as it is just with being teenagers or just trying to figure their way through life. It’s important for parents to understand, or Christians, you can no longer put your head in the sand. They are already being groomed by Hollywood, by the media, by the liberal agenda. Parents, you have to start addressing this. And if you have to, use people like us to come out and say, “Hey, this is the truth and the reality of the situation.”
Sam Rohrer: Well, George, that’s why we have you on the program right now. And I’m just praying, as we’re doing the program here, that there are people who are listening who will say, “Wow. Boy, that’s helpful to know that.” Let me ask you ask you a very practical question. There’s a parent listening right now. Let’s put them in the category of they have young children who may be in school that are being subjected to this mentality, just as you’re describing, and they indicate to their parents perhaps that they are saying, “You know, mom and dad,” as a young boy, “I think maybe I’m going to be homosexual when I get big.” Whoa. All right now, what does a loving mom and dad who is understanding what God says about human sexuality and so forth, how should a mom or a dad respond to a child at that early point when they’re evidencing something that is going a direction that is not biblically? How should they respond?
George Carneal: First thing is listen to your child. Do not respond in a negative way. Because if you shame them or attack them or, let’s say, beat them or verbally abuse them, you’ll just shut down the doorway of communication, and they will look elsewhere. And there will be people who have no godly influence on them who will then lead them in the wrong direction. It’s important for parents to just sit and listen and hear your child. And then try to find whatever information you can to show them the truth. With so many ex-gays, ex-lesbians and ex-transgenders out there on YouTube, like myself, we are actually exposing the truth and sharing the horror of our lives. But what God has done in our lives to bring us out of that bondage, there is hope. But listen to them and don’t push them away.
Sam Rohrer: I think that is wonderful. Let me ask you another question that a lot of people have. I have six children. Gary has a number of children. When we raise children, we’re very careful to encourage them not to lie, as an example, or not to steal. And we view these things because they are significant. But oftentimes the whole idea of the sexual sins tend to kind of get into an area where the culture right now says, “Well, they’re a little different. They’re not quite the same as the other.” And there’s a diminishing of these kind of things. How should a Christian parent, as an example, take biblical truth and apply it to these temptations towards a sexual sin in light of the other sins that we all commit? We’re all liars. We all get angry at times. How do you recommend that a parent deals with this from the standpoint of the priority or how they deal with this particular temptation?
George Carneal: I think it’s important for the parent to sit down and lovingly try to show them in God’s word where it is wrong. But understand, once your kid becomes an adult and they move out of the home, they are still going to make their decision. But at least know that you don’t have to regret of not having ever sat and told them the truth of God’s word. Because in the case of my own father, he knew I was an adult and he just prayed. And he was diligent in his prayers, in saying, “God, he’s your child. Let him wallow in the pigpen. And I hope you will do whatever it takes, short of taking his life, to bring him back home.” And my father was patient. He didn’t beat the dead horse. He still would bring it up every now and then, but I know so many parents who they want their child to change and they’re so angry, and they absolutely drive their children away to the point of where their kids hate them and they don’t want to have anything to do with them anymore. And that is not the right way to do it.
George Carneal: God is going to have to truly work. And it may very well be a test for all of you Christians and your parents to really have to learn how to have a real faith and trust in God and what he’s going to do. Because he’s going to meet us where we are. He knows my root core hurt, my pain, the shame, the rejection, which were the root core issues of why I went into that life. But once God gave me the healing, I was able to have the strength to walk out of that life. So parents, be patient but be diligent in your prayers. God, he’s faithful, he’s merciful.
Sam Rohrer: Well, now, as we swing into our final segment, we often call this our solution segment. It’s our hope segment today. Because we’re going to try and take and apply some biblical principles to this issue of sexual bondage, our theme From Sexual Bondage to Spiritual Freedom: A True Story. And it’s really the witness, it’s a story of our guest today, George Carneal. And he has a website at georgecarneal, that’s C-A-R-N-E-A.com, georgecarneal.com. You can find a number of things there about his life and the book that he wrote, From Queer to Christ: My Journey Into the Light. So on today we’ve talked what it was that led George, as a young boy, into the gay lifestyle, what he expected, what he hoped to find and, unfortunately, what he found to be just the opposite, and harm, and despondency, not what he hoped to find.
Sam Rohrer: And then the advice just given in this last segment to parents and to grandparents about how to deal with a child perhaps who has embraced the gay lifestyle or as a young child being influenced by this culture to consider going the way the Hollywood portrays as so glamorous, but in the end to offer nothing but pain and suffering. But there is hope. And George has been talking about it. And George, I want you to go there right now because you’ve talked about it. You found the exact opposite of what you hoped. Yeah, maybe a little bit of community, but not a good community. You talked about tendencies, temptations to suicide, and sexual addition, and drugs, and all of that kind of thing that comes with it. And you’re speaking out now, wanting to warn others who are being enticed, perhaps as the same way that you were. But, in your book, you talk about my journey into the light. So as a man who chose the gay lifestyle, coming actually from a Christian home, you knew. You walked away. But you’ve stated you found disillusionment, you found bondage. But then you found hope in Jesus Christ and spiritual freedom. What precipitated your journey back to Christ, George? Because you obviously knew about it growing up in Christian home, but what brought you back? How did God work in your life to bring you back from the gay lifestyle into God’s loving family?
George Carneal: It was the misery of that life. In addition to trying to find God, I tried through world religions like Hinduism and the occult and new age teachings. And even I was starting to see the holes in those religions and not finding any hope or peace. The misery just came at the point of where God graciously started putting goodhearted Christians in my life who had the heart of Christ, who knew where I was but they didn’t beat me down. They just wanted me to be in church. They invited me to sit with them. Because church to me was the lion’s den. I had a lot of anxiety going into a church. So being able to find loving Christians who would almost be like a mother or father to me, to allow me to sit with them, but then to be under the conviction of the Holy Spirit when there’s a pastor who’s actually speaking the truth of God’s word. You cannot run when you are under that kind of conviction.
George Carneal: Unfortunately, I fell into a liberal church in Los Angeles where for three years I pretty much listened to a lot of garbage that really confused me even more and made me more depressed and suicidal. And I actually had to go to God and say, “God, I am so tired of struggling with this, and I really want a good Christian man in my life. If you will give me peace with this, I trust you will give me that Christian man in my life and I can have a relationship with you.” But I also honestly and sincerely prayed to God that if homosexuality is wrong under all circumstances, I’m still going to follow you and trust you and I’m going to be committed to you. And God gave me the answer I needed. I could not get any peace in that life or with the lies that I was being fed. So I left that life, and that’s when I really found my joy.
George Carneal: And I want the LGBT individuals to understand, even if you’re feelings aren’t changing to where you are attracted to someone of the opposite sex, that’s okay. The main thing is is there is a choice called celibacy. And I have chosen that. And I’ve been out of that life and on the road of celibacy for over 13 years. and I want you to know, when you feel like there’s no hope, when you feel like you’re going to lose, God is going to replace it and fill it in other ways. You’re going to have a true joy and a peace and contentment you will never have apart from Christ. And on top of that, there’s nothing about that life, the sex, the drugs, the alcohol, whatever it is, that is worth going to hell for, missing out on an eternity apart from Christ. And so for me, I had to sit down and read God’s word. And it was then that I found out the truth and found out that I had been lied to. And I found out that God does not hate me. He does not have an ax to grind. It’s the sin that he has an issue with, the sin of homosexuals and heterosexuals. So he’s not unfairly beating up on the gay community.
George Carneal: I want you to know that there is hope and God is truly your ally. If you do leave that life, you will see LGBT individuals turn on you, as they have on me. I’ve lost so many friends. But like I said, God has replaced that with so many wonderful, loving people in my life, and especially Christians. And I have really enjoyed the bonding that I’ve had with a Christian family.
Gary Dull: George, I know that I’m appreciating this program and I’m certain that many people are. And I would encourage people to go to your website. That’s georgecarneal.com, is that correct?
George Carneal: Correct. C-A-R-N-E-A-L, as in Linda, .com.
Gary Dull: Right. George Carneal.
George Carneal: And may I also say, on there they will see a link to my YouTube channel.
Gary Dull: Great.
George Carneal: And you’ll see a lot of interviews and more insight, and even interviews with ex-transgender. So hopefully if Christians would just listen to that stuff, they can really arm themselves with information and be able to help these individuals.
Gary Dull: Yes, there’s a lot of information on there. And of course your book is spoken of on there as well, From Queer to Christ, and I’d encourage people to get it. You know, George, it just seems to me that those who are involved in the homosexual lifestyle are simply searching. Hearing what you’ve said today indicates that it’s a life of searching. They’re searching for happiness here. They’re searching for happiness there. A number of years ago, I was on a radio program and had the opportunity to actually lead a homosexual fellow to Christ right on the radio. So we only have a minute or two left and I know you’ve been talking to the homosexual person, but in just 30 seconds give a final challenge to those right now who are in the homosexual lifestyle, they’re not happy there, they would like to get out of it, where can their search end that will find true peace and joy that they’re looking for?
George Carneal: I would ask them to get honest with themselves and ask them are they really happy, have they found the utopia they looked for? And if they’ve tried everything else and they can honestly say no, all I’m asking is this, please give God a chance. Jesus is your biggest ally. Come to Jesus. Let God work in your life. There is hope in Christ.
Sam Rohrer: Well, George, come to Christ. We’ve got just a little bit of time. I want to ask you another question. You had said when you left your home, your father did not throw you out. He continued to pray for you, and he prayed that God would take you to the bottom of the pit if need it be, just spare your life, almost like the prodigal son type of a thing. Is that what you felt when you went through that whole process? Did you feel the prayers of your father with you through this entire time?
George Carneal: Absolutely. In fact, there were two instances in where I was actually about to attempt suicide and I had not been in communication with my father. And one of them was over a four year period. And I don’t know, maybe God or the Holy Spirit just led him to call me, but I was actually ready to commit suicide again. I was really in so much despair and bondage and hurting, and I just didn’t see a way out. And I just want parents to know and Christians to know, there really is power in prayer.
Sam Rohrer: Ladies and gentlemen, that’s a fantastic way to close this program. George Carneal, ladies and gentlemen, you can find at georgecarneal.com on his website. Go there. George, thank you for being transparent and open and sharing your life with our listeners across the country. And ladies and gentlemen, focus on what he just said. There’s hope in Jesus Christ. The Lord can save from all sin. And if you’re a parent and you’re praying, don’t give up. Continue to pray for your children, all of them.
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