Sam Rohrer:                      Well, all across America, lawlessness is exploding on all levels. We’ve talked about it on this program before, but from a different perspective, today. We, obviously, see lawlessness on the streets, but it’s primarily, not exclusively, but being encouraged, I’m going to say, from the executive and judicial branches of the federal, state and local governments. It’s aided and abetted, of course, by the legislative branch. And history is replete with examples of societies once constrained by law and order, collapsing into anarchy, preceded by tyranny, and ending up in totalitarian dictatorships. The Bible warns nations that if they reject God’s moral standards for law and justice, they will embrace bribery, corruption, and injustice, and freedom will disappear. Bondage will control. And with that, let me welcome you to Stand In The Gap Today. I’m Sam Rohrer and I’ll be joined today by Dr. Gary Dull. Our theme, today, is this, Resisting Tyranny God’s Way.

                                             You know, the greatest ally of tyranny are citizens and pastors and government officials who’ve refused to confront lawlessness and aggressive immorality in a biblical and historical way. When God’s rejected truth redefines the pulpits, silences the enemies of truth, active and citizens lethargic, there can be no credible effort to stem this fearful slide into bondage. Doesn’t it seem across America, ladies and gentlemen, today, that everyone’s hoping that someone else soon steps up or that some champion rides in on a white horse at the last moment and saves the day? Well, perhaps you are one of those hoping that someone steps up and saves our blessed republic from tyranny. Without a doubt, COVID-19 has been the political justification for presidential and gubernatorially declared emergencies. And it certainly has been a vehicle to catapult tyranny right smack into our culture, our businesses, our homes, and even our churches.

                                             And in this government and media-induced panic and move into greater tyranny, we have but one of two choices. We’ll either define the problem of tyranny and resist it God’s way, and therefore defend freedom, or we’ll embrace tyranny by choosing to work the system to our own selfish advantage. And the dangers of embracing tyranny should be obvious, but I’m afraid it’s not to many. And because of the need to provide a biblical and historical solution and a roadmap to resisting tyranny, so that the more obvious historical examples of violent ways do not become necessary, we’re going to define, today, the terms of tyranny and the principle of what is known as the doctrine of the lesser magistrates. We’ll talk about that next. We’re going to talk and give both biblical and historical examples of this truth in action. And then, we’re going to conclude with a consideration of the consequences of our failure to identify and properly respond.

                                             We’re pleased, today, to have a first time guest to Stand In The Gap Today. He’s Pastor Matthew Trewhella. He’s the author of a book, The Doctrine of the Lesser Magistrates. Matt’s also a pastor of Mercy Seat Christian Church in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and he has a website at Matt, welcome to the program, today.

Matthew Trewhel…:       Good to be here with you, Sam. Thank you.

Sam Rohrer:                      We’re glad that you’re on board, Matt. For those who’ve listened to our TV program, also across the country, you and I have done, with Isaac Crockett co-host, we have done two TV programs that will soon be airing, part one, part two. This is some of the same, today, but it will be different. So, I encourage people to look for the TV program, as well as listening, today. But you’re a pastor, you’re a historian, you’re an author. You’re an avid student of culture, I know. And before we define two critical terms, I wanted to ask you this question. On a scale of one to 10, with one being the state of freedom and 10 being the state of tyranny, okay, one, the state of freedom, 10, the state of tyranny, where would you place our nation, now, particularly, since the advent of COVID policies, in particular?

Matthew Trewhel…:       We’re definitely at eight, 10 being you’re sitting in a Gulag or being hunted by the officials for simply trying to live free and faithful and true to Christ. We’re definitely at eight. This is a pernicious evil, this whole COVID thing. They are actually using the citizens against each other. And they’ve convinced so many citizens that their actual lives are at stake. So, they’re vehement little tyrants themselves, playing the role of citizen Gestapo across our nation. And it’s coming to the fore with this whole masking matter. And I’d like to read just a quote from C. S. Lewis, to you, Pastor Sam, because he really hits it on the head, here.

                                             He said of all tyrannies, “A tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most depressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busy bodies. The robber barons’ cruelty may sometimes sleep. His stupidity may, at some point, be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.” And that’s what you have here, the state of things, right now. People are convinced by our government and the media that their very lives are at stake because of this virus. And they are running to the arms of the state, not realizing the state is using this in order to increase their power. I’m telling you people better wake up. Don’t underestimate what’s going on, here, with this masking thing. I’ve read numerous posts, now, where the pro-mask people are talking about how the children should be taken away from those who refuse to wear masks. I’ve seen numerous videos where they’re shaming people who don’t wear masks, publicly, at stores or in public areas.

                                             There was an article put out at and numerous other articles at other sites that I’ve seen, which teach people, actually, how to shame those who don’t wear articles. So, there’s much more at stake here than just wearing a mask. So, don’t underestimate the evil because it is huge. And these tyrants have figured out that a virus is the perfect narrative in order to tyrannize a people. It was the British statesman, William Pitt, Pastor Sam, who said, “Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants. It is the creed of slaves.” And that’s where we’re at, right now. They are after everybody’s lives. And they’re using this virus to invade our personal lives and our family lives. People need to learn about contact tracing. That is a great evil that is being fomented around the country. While the masking is all the thing, right now, this contact tracing is a great evil. People have to understand, Pastor Sam, that tyranny doesn’t just happen when you snap your fingers.


Sam Rohrer:                      Well, welcome back to Stand In The Gap Today. I’m Sam Rohrer, accompanied by Dr. Gary Dull and our special guest, Pastor Matthew Trewhella. He’s the author of the book, The Doctrine of the Lesser Magistrates, and our theme is this, Resisting Tyranny God’s Way. But before we go into the biblical examples that supports this principle, and we’re going to give you a historical examples that support this principle, Gary, I want to go to you to get this segment kicked off here.

Gary Dull:                           Yeah, I think it’s a tremendous thing to have Brother Matt with us today. And Matt, thank you for joining us on the program. We’re going to be talking about tyranny, and then, of course, the doctrine of the lesser magistrate. And I’m wondering, at the very beginning of this particular segment, for the sake of our listeners, if you could give a clear definition of tyranny, as well as the concept of the doctrine of the lesser magistrate. What really are we talking about here?

Matthew Trewhel…:       Sure. Yeah. Tyranny was best defined by John Salisbury. Everyone should read his work, Policraticus. It was written in 1159 AD, hugely and massively important theological work. And he said that tyranny is abuse of power granted to man by God. It’s when man abuses the authority given to him by God. It’s an important theological concept that anyone who possesses authority in any of the four great governments, whether self, family, church, or civil government, it’s delegated authority. It’s granted to them of God, what they have, what they possess. And therefore, they are to govern according to His rule. When it comes to the doctrine of the lesser magistrate, simply, this is what it is. It’s very simple. When the higher ranking civil authority makes unjust or immoral law, policy or court opinion, the lower or lesser ranking civil authority has both the God-given right and duty not to obey the superior authority. And, if necessary, to actively resist. John Knox wrote the foremost treatise on the doctrine of the lesser magistrates, to us, in his Appalachia to the Nobles of Scotland who were the lesser magistrates of that day. And I would encourage everyone to read that.

Sam Rohrer:                      Matt, thank you for setting it up there. And I’m going to go in now, because, as you raise that, you have talked about authority, you’re talking lesser authority, as in maybe a governor, as compared to, as I Peter talks about, supreme authority, the emperor, but people got the idea there. But ladies and gentlemen, when we think about this, throughout history, civilizations have ebbed and then flowed from bondage to freedom and then back to bondage, again. The Old Testament’s full of that with Israel. Right? Due to the sin and the depravity of the human heart, selfishness, greed and unlimited ambition have driven leaders to desire ever greater and greater control. Socialism, communism, Islam. They’re all part of the evidence of totalitarian governments, where God, and what God’s order is for society, is out of the picture. Biblical morality is trampled and bribery and corruption with a defiance towards God’s authority rules the day.

                                             And in all cases, where tyranny raises its ugly head, the question arises, “Well, what can we do about it?” What should be done about it? From a Christian perspective, we ask the question, “How does one balance the command to submit oneself to the ordinances of man and the command to be salt and light and to resist the devil, which we are commanded to do? But the devil is not just the devil as a person. It’s all that the devil does and that’s evil. So how do you resist? So, Matt, I want to go to you. I’d like to cite, if you could, some biblical examples of people properly resisting evil and tyranny, as you’ve defined. It’s power that exceeds their limit, God-given limit, and all of that, and explain why the entire concept of lesser authority, resisting higher authority, rests on the foundation of fixed moral standards from God, and why identified moral standards are necessary for, what we term, just laws, which, obviously, is in that context of how we measure when some ordinance or command of government becomes unjust, and therefore, tyrannic? Well, so, put that together, if you could.

Matthew Trewhel…:       Sure. Well, the standard for true Christianity, down to the ages, Sam, has been that when the state commands that which God forbids or forbids that which God commands, we are to obey God rather than man. We’re to obey God rather than the state. And we see examples of that in scripture. For example, Pharaoh told the Hebrew midwives to kill the male Hebrew children. And they disobeyed that as an act of interposition. And that’s what the doctrine of the lesser magistrate is rooted in, is the historic Christian doctrine of interposition where, just like your show is entitled, you stand in the gap, you put yourself between the oppressor and his intended victim.

                                             And then, of course, we have another example. We have many examples. I’ll just share one more and that’s Daniel. He wasn’t told to do something wrong, like murder someone. He was told he couldn’t do something good. He was told, “You can’t pray to your God.” And he prayed anyways. In fact, he was by the window, made sure everybody saw him, did it three times. And he stood faithful to our Lord. And so, there you have the standard, right there, when the state commands that which God forbids, like murdering little babies, or forbids that which God commands, like saying, “You can’t pray.” We are to obey God rather than man. We are to obey God rather than the state.

                                             So, it’s extremely important that we understand the law and the Word of God. So, as his people, we can live faithful to it. When it comes to the magistrates, the lesser magistrate takes the doctrine of interposition and demonstrates or exercises it with his office, with his lawful public civil office. He stands in the gap between the superior authority that is doing evil, decreeing evil, and those that they are wanting to victimize or oppress, hugely important doctrine for us to understand.

Gary Dull:                           Matt, I’m glad that you’re explaining this to us. And ladies and gentlemen, I think this is a very significant program that I would encourage you to listen to carefully, because what we are talking about, today, really is going on all around us. And there are many examples to that. Matt, explain to us why it is that many people, including pastors, really don’t understand the principle of duty and responsibility when it comes to actually resisting evil government policy or law that they might put forth. In other words, why do you believe that each person who believes in moral truth and God’s design for society must come to grips with understanding duty and responsibility from both the biblical perspective, as well as the civil perspective? These are important concepts. Why are they important?

Matthew Trewhel…:       They’re important because you see what happens to a society when duty and responsibility are neglected, which duty and responsibility are negative terms for Americans, these days. All you have to do is look at the divorce rate to realize that. And so, we, as God’s people, must be faithful in regards to what he reveals in His Word. His Word does speak to all matters of life, including civil government matters. Pastors used to actually preach what we know as election sermons, during colonial times, all the way up to the mid-1800s. They would gather the magistrates together, the people were invited in, a pastor was selected. He would talk from the Word of God about the duties, roles, functions, and limits of civil government. Our relationships to civil government are very important.

                                             When it comes to duty, regarding the civil magistrate, he takes an oath. He takes an oath, not of subservience to the federal government or to the governor or whatever the case may be. He takes an oath to uphold the constitution of the United States and the constitution of their state. That is who they take an oath to. And so, it’s extremely important when the superior authority impugns that constitution, that the lesser magistrates step in, stand in the gap and stop the evil that the superior authority is doing.

Sam Rohrer:                      Matt, that’s very clear, but that’s clear to me, it’s clear to Gary, it’s clear to you, but it is not clear to a lot of people, because one thing that this requires is courage. Speak to that aspect of it, too. From the standpoint of knowing what to do is one thing, doing it is something totally different, but it’s not comfortable to stand up and oppose evil, is it?

Matthew Trewhel…:       Oh, it isn’t. And you bring up a very important point, because that’s been my experience with the magistrates. The lesser magistrates, Sam, is that they can see it, they know what their duty is, it’s clear to them, but they cower they’re afraid. And that’s where the role of the people comes, in regarding the doctrine of the lesser magistrate. You see it in scripture, regarding King Saul, when he wanted to kill his own son, the people rallied. But the duty of the people is to press their lesser magistrates to interpose when evil is being done by the superior authority, and to rally with their lesser magistrates when they do do right. That is hugely important. So, you have to prod the magistrate to do right, let him know what his duty is, and then, assure him you will stand foursquare with him when he does do right. Massively important.

Sam Rohrer:                      That absolutely is massively important. And I can tell you, all of you who are listening, I know, for those in office, they want to hear from those who are on the ground. They certainly want to hear from all of those who are committed to doing right, because those who want to do evil are always trying to encourage them. And that’s part of what we’re talking about, doctrine of the lesser magistrate, authority versus authority when it comes to resisting tyranny.


                                             Welcome back to Stand In The Gap Today. Our theme, this day, is Resisting Tyranny God’s Way. Interesting title. I hope that it intrigued you a little bit, because, as far as I’m concerned, and our Stand In The Gap team, as we look across the country, we all know that people are confused. There’s information on all sides, any piece of information you want, any position, let’s put it that way, you can find somebody out there that claims to support that position. And all the while government continues to pound in upon us panicked news. But we’ve covered things on this program that the basis of the news, particularly as it relates to COVID policies, are just so far off the wall, not true, from the standpoint of how deaths are calculated, how cases are calculated to now including probable cases. And all of these things are being pounded into our heads and our minds in a way to drive the American people to hunker down and to call out to the God of government for relief. And that’s where it’s going. And that is at the heart of why it is tyranny, and we’ve described it and defined it on this program already today.

                                             Our special guest, Pastor Matthew Trewhella. He’s authored a book, The Doctrine of the Lesser Magistrates. Now, he didn’t write that. I mean, he wrote the book, but he didn’t write the principle. He recorded the principle that’s existed throughout biblical times and history. We’ve given some biblical examples of the principle in application. And in this segment, we’re going to give some historical examples, because the path we’re on, right now, Solomon, in the Old Testament said, “There’s nothing new under the sun.” Truly. That’s true. There’s nothing new under the sun. And even though there might be a thing we call COVID-19, and that may be a new word, not the idea of pandemic or plague or sickness or government, none of that’s new. So, it’s a matter of applying it, here.

                                             But I want to encourage all of you who are listening to know that this program, in its archive form, is available on our website., and it’s on our app, where you can go and I encourage you, strongly, download our free app, put in the phrase, stand in the gap. Listen to this program. It makes it easy to then forward it to your friends.

                                             And I was speaking with a regular listener, just the other day. And he said, “Sam this is the program I tune in everyday. It is absolutely critical.” And he’s a medical guy. And he said, “I have forwarded, and I regularly forward the programs,” he said, “that really grip me, and many of them do,” he said, “to 30 or 40 friends, and say, ‘you need to listen to this.'” And that’s what I like to ask all of you who are listening, right now. Would you consider forwarding a link to this program or other programs to 20 or 30 or 50 friends of yours and say, “Hey, take a listen, because you’re not going to get information like this just anywhere?” So I encourage you, strongly, to do that. Truth cannot be bottled up. We must not bottle up. We’ve got to get it out.

                                             All right, let me go back into this. Historical examples. When our Pilgrim and Puritan founders came to America, they came to escape totalitarian leaders who limited their freedom to freely worship, to worship God, in particular. They wanted to train up their children in the fear of God. They came to escape heavy taxation and the arbitrary exercise of power by leaders who actually thought they were god. In our nation, here in America, 56 signers labored through the considerations of duty and responsibility that we’ve talked about on this program today. And they sought to oppose tyranny and God’s command. They wanted to balance it, not to be in rebellion. They did not want to be judged of God for being in rebellion, as the Old Testament said, but they wanted to be blessed of God by resisting tyranny.

                                             They took and they laid things down into then, what became the Declaration of Independence, appealing to God, laying out the grievances toward the despot tyrant king, and then appealing to God himself to hear the rectitude of the cause. And I submit that, here in America, if we don’t begin, soon, stepping up, including our pastors in our pulpits and all in positions of authority, instead of being the home of the free and the land of the brave, America will become the home of the enslaved and the land of the coward. Matt, let’s go back to you here, right now. Share some historical examples. And that one in particular that people may not be aware of where pastors particularly got involved to support the lesser magistrate and really gave us a fantastic example to apply to actually where we are now.

Matthew Trewhel…:       Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, there’s many examples from history where the pastors have been involved in that regard. But the one I’d like to point to is the one regarding Magdeburg, Germany. And it’s where we got what’s known as the Magdeburg Confession, by the way, which we translated for the first time from Latin into English. And it’s available now for people to read, for English speaking people to read for the first time in over 450 years. And they can get it at our website, We throw in a few extra things if they want to get it there or they can go to Amazon, either one.

                                             But in 1546, Martin Luther died. And so Emperor Charles the Fifth decided that he wanted to re-Romanize all the Protestant lands and bring them back under Roman Catholic doctrine, practice and rule. And all of the Protestant lands went along with this, except for one city, Magdeburg, Germany. And the magistrates in Magdeburg, Germany stood in interposition against what was known as Charles the Fifth’s interim. They stood against it and said, “We’re not going to obey.” Now, it’s important to note that the pastors wrote this confession, published it everywhere, nine of them signed it in support of their magistrates, who were standing in interposition. And the first signer was Nicolaus von Amsdorf.

                                             Nicolaus von Amsdorf was a close friend of Martin Luther’s. He had been at Magdeburg since 1524. Luther, himself, put him in the pulpit there in that city, because he thought so highly of him. So, these magistrates had been sitting under the pulpit of Nicolaus von Amsdorf for over two decades. And they understood interposition. And the reason von Amsdorf understood interposition was because he experienced it as a young man. He was with Luther when Luther was tried for being a heretic and was found guilty of being a notorious heretic. And you may recall that a lesser magistrate, Frederick the Wise, who was directly under Charles the Fifth, rather than obey the emperor, he feigned Luther’s kidnapping, hid him in the castle, the Wartburg Castle in Eisenach Germany, and Luther translated the New Testament into German.

                                             Nicolaus von Amsdorf was with Luther when all that happened. He saw the interposition of the lesser magistrate with his own eyes. So, here he is penning this Magdeburg Confession, showing from scripture and history that their magistrates were right to defy the emperor. And they made a stand there. And if had not been for the interposition of those magistrates and the writings of the pastors there in Magdeburg, Germany, Sam, the whole Reformation would have just been a blip on the radar screen of human history. It would have been over. It was the only city that stood in interposition. There was a 13-month conflict over it. And in the end, Charles the Fifth abandoned his attack on Magdeburg. And all of the Protestant lands were free to continue to practice their faith. That’s how important this doctrine is.

Gary Dull:                           Well, we can thank the Lord for the Magdeburg Confession, indeed, but Matt, let’s move down into the family situation, right now. Can you give any examples as to how a mother or father in the family situation could interpose and exercise the doctrine of the lesser magistrate?

Matthew Trewhel…:       Yeah, I think it’s important to define. When it comes to the doctrine of the lesser magistrate, we’re talking about public officials that are interposing. I know some people try to say, “Well, I’m a lesser magistrate. You’re a lesser man. We’re all lesser magistrates.” The Indians have a saying, “If everybody’s responsible for the canoe, the canoe sinks.” So, what fathers and mothers can do, though, is interpose, because, remember, interposition is the root of the doctrine of the lesser magistrate. The magistrate simply uses that doctrine regarding his office.

                                             So, when it comes to parents, it’s extremely important that they interpose in that regard. I mean, for example, we don’t send our kids off to the government school. We homeschool our children. We’re not going to give up our responsibility. If our children are threatened with forced vaccinations, we gather at the state house with thousands of other people. We did this and said, “No, this isn’t going to happen in our state.” We gather with thousands of other people when they were trying to force their way in to begin to regulate how we do homeschooling. So, it’s extremely important that mothers and fathers be vigilant, that they understand their role and function as a father and as a mother, as a man, as a woman, as a husband, as a father. And when they see threats to the home, they must take action. They cannot be indifferent towards it. And, unfortunately, we have far too much indifference in American Christianity, today.

Sam Rohrer:                      Matt, we do. And ladies and gentlemen, if I could take just a moment before the break and expand just a little bit further. What Matt’s explaining, there, is what we talk about, a biblical worldview, understanding authority. And this is really key. God is ultimate authority. Correct? He’s divine. He created the individual, and that’s where our founders, in fact, six signers said, “God gave inalienable rights,” to whom, the individual, not government. God did to the individual, but God also established the family, father, mother in position, children underneath, and then, the church, the pastor and the leaders lead that. And then, there’s civil authority. God has made all of them subject to God himself, and all will give an account. When one authority structure sticks its nose into the other, the government into the home, education, as an example, then it’s the responsibility of that authority to push back and say, “No, you can’t.” Why not? Because this is what God has given. That’s in simple terms how this all works.


                                             Well, as we move now into our final segment, here, as we are focusing on the big concept of tyranny, we defined it. It’s basically when authority exceeds their authority by commanding people to do things through policies, orders, however you may call it, whatever form, regulations that either violate the existing law, now, in our country, it would be the constitution, or God’s moral law, which underpins our constitutional law. Either when government says you either will do something that violates one of those two, or you cannot do something assured by that law. We’re seeing some of that, as a result of COVID policies, in regard to, for instance, our churches.

                                             Some states have said, you cannot gather, or you cannot gather with more than 10 people or whatever that may be. And we’re feeling it are we not ,ladies and gentlemen. This is exactly what we’re talking about. Does government have the authority and the right to actually tell the church you can or cannot, or to tell a pastor, you cannot go into the hospital and meet with someone who is on their death bed, which has exactly been told to many pastors, including Gary Dull, on this program, could not go to the hospital because of COVID policies. Interesting. Think about that. Well, these are examples. And the Bible says, though, that, if a sentence is not exercised speedily against those who do evil, and I’m paraphrasing just a bit, that the commitment by those individuals will be to do more evil, and that will take root among the population.

                                             Now, in another sense, all of you who are parents know that if a parent does not biblically discipline their child, when they do wrong, that child will grow into rebellion and lawlessness. And God’s word speaks a lot about that. But the same is true for those who are in positions of authority, who reject accountability to God, and therefore, if they do, and the Bible tells us pray for those in positions of authority, because they are accountable to God, they’ll give an account. Right? Well, if those people don’t have any fear of God, do you think they’re going to have any sense of accountability to the people, which is what is supposed to be done under our representative government? The answer is, no, they will not, because they don’t view themselves as serving either God or the people. They expect the people to serve them. That’s the whole aspect and underpinning of tyranny. Right?

                                             So, in the end, if those in possessions of authority are permitted to be undisciplined, like a child permitted to be undisciplined, it fully set in their mind and their heart, they will do even more. That’s what happens in real life. And when that takes place, freedom is always lost. That’s what happened to Israel. Right? They had freedom. God gave it to them. They turned their back. They did not keep their leaders in accountability. And the leaders themselves rejected accountability to God. And so, they lost the freedom. And when that happens, persecution always increases. Joy, goes to sorrow, prosperity, goes to want, and God’s blessing goes to judgment. That’s what God says. So Matt, I’ve given just a few consequences here of not resisting tyranny, but I’d like you to expand just a little bit more, if you could, with a direct linkage between resisting evil and God’s blessing and not resisting evil and God’s judgment, specifically as it concerns a nation, but take it down smaller if you want.

Matthew Trewhel…:       Sure. Yeah. In my book, I talk about Jeremiah 36 through Chapter 39. And in there, I quote Knox and his Appalachia to the Nobles, because he points out how important the lesser magistrates were to Jeremiah, to his ministry, to the state of Israel, at that time. And when the magistrates, the lesser magistrates, stood with Jeremiah and opposed the king, you saw God’s blessing, Jeremiah’s continued ability to minister, but then, as things went on, the lesser magistrates actually turned against him. And what ended up happening then, when you read there later, is that they all were sold into slavery or were killed by the Babylonians. So, you see God’s judgment, if the magistrates don’t interpose, you see His blessing, if they do interpose. And in fact, Ezekiel 22:27-31, talk about that very fact, how God looked for someone to stand in the gap to interpose, couldn’t find anyone, and so, he had to bring his righteous judgment upon the land.

                                             So, the interim position of the lesser magistrate can actually abate the just judgment of God upon a land. That’s how massively important the interim position is, in regards to God’s judgment or blessing being upon a nation. So, many, and most, hide behind this thing, “Well, I’m just going to do whatever the person above me says.” And that’s not their duty. When a higher authority does wrong, their duty is interposition. And I love what you said about human nature, about the magistrates and the makeup of most magistrates in our day. I think it’s important for people to understand that our founders had a biblical view of the nature of man, that he’s wicked and that he’s in need of a savior, namely Jesus Christ.

                                             Therefore, they didn’t want power to reside in one man, like a monarchy like King George, who they were throwing off, or in a few men like an oligarchy, like we’ve created the Supreme Court to be in our nation today. Rather, they pillared, within our constitutional republic, safeguards. They expected, first off, a federalism as multiple levels of government, multiple branches on each level, and they did that in order, so that if any one branch began to play the tyrant, the other branch would check that branch. They would remind that branch that their authority has limits. That’s hugely important. And so, we’ve lost all that in America today. And we need to teach people these things so that they understand them and then we need to apply them. And I don’t know if we have enough time, but I could share a quick story, because there’s been so many stories of interposition [crosstalk 00:36:00].

Gary Dull:                           Actually, we’re pretty much out of time, Matt.

Matthew Trewhel…:       Okay.

Gary Dull:                           We’re really down to just a couple of seconds, I should say, maybe a little over a minute, but why don’t you just share briefly in 60 seconds or less what pastors and church leadership can do to resist tyranny God’s way. 60 seconds or less.

Matthew Trewhel…:       Yeah, well, regarding this latest evil, with all this masking stuff, they need to expose the fiction for what it is, because there’s plenty of experts, health experts, who aren’t being put in front of everyone by the media or the government officials, who have totally repudiating all this nonsense of masking. You might as well be walking around with a rabbit’s foot in your pocket as wearing a mask. And they’re using it for evil, for tyranny and to divide the citizenry. So, it’s extremely important that the pastors teach from the Word of God about that. You have to understand COVID has been built on a mountain of lies. So, if you go along with the lie that they’ve created, the fiction, the narrative that they’ve created, you are violating the ninth commandment, which says you shall not bear false witness. You’re giving credence to a lie, to a fiction by going along. So, the churches need to stand in opposition to what’s being done by the government, and then they need to teach their people in order to repudiate the lies being spread by the media, regarding all this nonsense.

Sam Rohrer:                      And with that, Matt, we are at the end here of our program. Again, you have a website at I think the book that we’re talking about, you wrote, The Doctrine of the Lesser Magistrates and The Magdeburg Confession, that you referred to, is available there, I believe. So, ladies and gentlemen-

Matthew Trewhel…:       Yeah.

Sam Rohrer:                      … you can go there if you want. And, unfortunately, we are out of time. Stand with us in prayer and finances. We’ll see you back here, tomorrow, ladies and gentleman, 23 hours from now.