This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today radio program originally aired on June 29, 2021. To listen to the program, please click HERE.

Keith Wiebe:                     Thank you so much for joining us today for this broadcast. You as our listening audience are very special to us and we’re very privileged to join you. I’m Keith Wiebe, your host, and joining to share in these duties with me, Pastor Gary Dull, and in just a few moments, a very special guest whom I am going to introduce to you.

                                             Our topic today in broad strokes is critical race theory. Now, unless you’re living under a rock, you’re very well familiar with the term. We’ve actually discussed critical race theory, or CRT as it’s called at times, several times on this broadcast. And I expect moving forward that we’ll do it some more. It has become a very important, and I would say critical topic of conversation.

                                             The three words in the title suggests its importance. Critical, that’s used in the sense of something that’s very important, needs careful attention. Race, a word that in our culture has become incendiary. It describes people, groups. Describes identity. It’s become something around it which it seems so much of our discussion about culture and history resolves. And then there’s the word theory. Now theory suggests something that’s unproven, maybe unsupported by any factual evidence, but nonetheless, a viewpoint that is held by some, and in this case, very tenaciously.

                                             Now, today, we’re going to talk about critical race theory as it intersects with education, particularly with Christian education. And to help us in this discussion is a guest who has been a part of this broadcast before. And quite frankly, we would be hard pressed to find anyone better qualified to address our particular niche today than Mr. Jamison Coppola. Jamison is the Government Relations Director for the American Association of Christian Schools. Jamison, welcome, thank you for joining us today.

Jamison Coppola:             Thank you, Keith. It’s a pleasure to be with you and Gary again, and appreciate your kind words of introduction.

Keith Wiebe:                     Well, you’re very welcome. I want you to remind us all just so we kind of have it in our minds, just what is critical race theory? Can you give us a brief, succinct definition?

Jamison Coppola:             Yeah. As you’ve already mentioned, as part of the critical theory division, segment of the academy, you know, higher ed, it really is part of the social justice movement. But at its most fundamental, it’s really a movement centered, focused on race essentialism. In other words, it makes race an essential aspect of almost everything. And it’s powered really by a religious fervor. But fundamentally, it has a Marxist approach to society. So it’s not inaccurate to call it a form of racial Marxism, neo-Marxism, racial Marxism. That’s how I would summarize it.

Gary Dull:                           Well, that’s a good summary, Jamison. And again, thank you for being with us today. It’s always a delight to have you on the program. And as we continue our discussion on the critical race theory, we know that words matter. And of course that’s already been implied in our discussion so far. And so in the discussion about this topic, you’ve described it as using quote “clever language.” What do you mean by that? What type of clever language is being used in this topic?

Jamison Coppola:             Yeah, I think that’s a really important question, Gary, because one of the primary ways CRT has advanced in our society is really by changing the meaning of words. But they’re not upfront about that. They don’t tell you that they’ve changed the fundamental meanings of the words. And so I might say it like this, they’re using the same thesaurus but a completely different dictionary. So the words look the same, they’re words in common usage, but they mean something totally different.

                                             Take for instance, even the words of social justice. They see themselves as people advocating for social justice. I think most people in our society would eagerly agree that we want a society that is just. We are fundamentally people that understand that justice is important, fairness is important. But CRT proposes that American society is inescapably unjust in its laws, its customs, and its history. And it goes so far as to recast the founding of our country as a fundamentally unjust endeavor to institutionalize slavery.

                                             So in conversations around the topic, we find that we’re using the same words, but meaning entirely different things. And since it is the fruit of postmodern theory, it denies that there can actually be a transcendent objective truth. So justice is open to interpretation based on perspective. And so it’s suspicious of all truth claims. And it really believes that if you’re making a truth claim about justice, about law, about history, you’re merely exercising power. That’s why we hear them say things like, “Well, that’s your truth,” or, “This is my truth,” or, “My lived experience tells me…” et cetera, et cetera.

                                             And so how this carries out in society as it relates to race is that according to CRT, racism isn’t like this universal human condition that is a mark of our sin nature, of our innate struggle between good and evil. Instead, it claims that only those people in power can be racist. So when they say racism, they don’t mean the common understanding that we have about this natural tendency, the bad tendency we have to judge people by superficial characteristics, they actually mean some people are fundamentally racist because of their skin color, and some people are not. And if you have power, you can’t help but to be racist because you have power.

                                             And so the way that works out in our current society is proponents of CRT claim that whites, because they’ve had hegemony, because we have been the primary race in Western civilization, we’ve set up a society that’s intrinsically racist. So if you’re white, you have guilt by association of your skin color and you’re racist by default, no matter what your actions or motivations are. So they’re very clever in how they use words like equality and justice and racism. And they don’t mean the same thing that most people take them to mean.

Keith Wiebe:                     And we’re actually going to, later on in the program, take a look at what they have done with the fundamental first sentence of our Declaration of Independence, “We believe that all men are created equal,” and they move from equality to equity with a very deft twist of the words. You’ll want to stay tuned because we’re going to be sure to get to that in just a little bit.

                                             We look too, even Jamison, you mentioned they talk about your truth and my truth, and it’s important for us to recognize that from a biblical worldview, we don’t have our own truth. There is only truth. It doesn’t take any qualifiers. It doesn’t take any adjectives. It is simply truth. And it was Jesus who said, “You shall know the truth.” And in the Greek New Testament, there is the definite article “the” there which makes it carry weight. “You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” And of course, as believers, we are all about helping people to find their freedom in Jesus Christ.

                                             Now we’re going to continue our discussion about critical race theory on the other side of this coming up break. And we’re going to talk about how it robs us of our freedom, the freedom that God desires and intends every one of us to get. You’re listening to Stand in the Gap Today. I hope you will be sure to stay tuned. We will be right back.


Keith Wiebe:                     Thank you so much again for tuning in to our broadcast. I am Keith Wiebe, joined by Dr. Gary Dull, Pastor Gary Dull, and our special guest, Jamison Coppola. Jamison is the Government Relations Director for the American Association of Christian Schools. And we are talking about critical race theory, especially as it relates to education and Christian education.

                                             Now, just before we went to the break, I mentioned that the Declaration of Independence declares that our Creator, and that is by the way in the Declaration is a capital C, our Creator has made every person equal to every other person. And in a somewhat subtle shift in language, but with a not so subtle shift in meaning, proponents of critical race theory have begun to talk about equity instead of equality. Now, remember the way I just read it from the Declaration of Independence. “We believe these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal.” Now Jamison, I’m going to ask you to address the difference for us between being equal and equality. What does that discussion mean? Why is it important?

Jamison Coppola:             Yes, Keith, I appreciate the way that you closed the last segment because I have to remind myself of this in the space that I work with in public policy and these cultural issues and in defense of Christian education, that we are people of the Word. “In the beginning was the Word,” and the Word was looked at in the word the logos. The fixed point of objective truth transcendent above the created world. And as Christians, words are important. We’re talking about how… I think it’s by design that CRT and other postmodern theories try to destroy this surety about the meaning of words. Because Christianity really is the process of knowing God and growing in our relationship with that God. And if we can’t have a dependable language to describe that, we’re kind of lost.

                                             As it relates to the founding of our country, we had people that did have that worldview, that there was fixed objective truth. And when they used the word equality, they were talking about a spiritual equality, a worthiness of every human being because they were created in the image of that God. I think it’s a small win maybe for us that they’ve had to switch language from equality to equity, because they’re no longer masquerading the word equality, trying to make it a material outcome-based word, it still can retain its spiritual truth. And they switched to equity, which really says that what they’re after is material outcomes, the same outcomes for every person. And because we’re all unique creatures of God, I believe that it’s an impossibility to determine that sort of outcome for every person. In order to do it, you have to become tyrannical.

                                             So maybe that’s a little bit of twist on this equality versus equity, but I think it’s a small win that they now at least are being more honest about using the word equity, because they’re talking about a material outcome equality, not a spiritual worthiness or worth equality, like our founders meant.

Gary Dull:                           That’s a good distinction that you’ve made there, Jamison. And of course you’re involved with Christian education. And so as we look at the difference and the confusion that’s between equity and equality, what kind of a danger does that pose for education, and particularly for Christian education? Because it certainly relates to bringing young people up in the concept of absolute truth.

Jamison Coppola:             Yeah. So I’ll start with this. We’ll start at kind of the view that I have right now in federal education. And one of the concerning things is that the Department of Education has already changed an American history and civics education program. That was a grant program that was designed to encourage the teaching of American history so that our citizens can be well-versed in our civics. And that’s been turned by the current administration to a grant program that is now suggesting that the 1619 Project and the works of Ibram X. Kendi be taught. And really these are all attempts to deconstruct American history. And we’re now starting to see that being developed at the federal level.

                                             At the local level, there’s a lot of discussion, as a matter of fact, it’s often front page news because people are starting to become aware of CRT. And we see this discussion move from the national level out of the higher ed and the academy level down to state legislatures and school boards. And so we’re starting to see people aware of CRT and pushing back against it. But some of the signs, especially what I see at the federal level, are not very encouraging.

Keith Wiebe:                     You’ve defined kind of the direction that we’d like to go with this, Jamison. Critical race theory is talked about. It’s on front page of a lot of national publications. It has been discussed on the floor of the U.S. Senate, of the U.S. House of Representatives. It seems that this is one of those discussions, and the way I want to approach it throughout the rest of our program, is like a funnel. We’re coming in at the wide end at the national, the federal level, and we’re going to reduce this down to the narrow end, where it comes out at the local level and where it has the potential to affect every parent who has a child that’s going to need to be going to schools.

                                             Now you mentioned, Jamison, a lot of state legislatures are paying attention to this. They have actually taken legislative action to prohibit the teaching of critical race theory in their states’ school systems. Why are they doing this, to ban it? And is it a good idea for them to do that?

Jamison Coppola:             Yeah. So I’ll take a few parts of that question. I think there are about 22 state legislatures where bills have been introduced to ban the teaching of critical race theory within the state. And I think it’s passed into law in at least five states. That was my last most recent count. And the way I see it, the way federalism and republican government works, it is the legitimate exercise of state power. There’s some discussion about whether in an academic environment we should ban any theory or any discussion that’s relevant to how people see the world. But I view, especially education of young people, in such a way that they should have objective truth first, and then the nuanced discussion about how sometimes because of sinfulness things are gray. We have a hard time seeing the black or white or the good or the evil in something.

                                             And so I think it’s a legitimate exercise of state power, but what we have to realize is you can’t ban critical race theory per se. You can ban a curriculum that uses it. You can ban open discussion about it, but it’s a worldview. And so we’re going to see this in how teachers approach the teaching of history and law, cultural issues in society. And what I’m concerned about is kind of like what we saw as a parallel in common core, people came out strong against common core, like we see people coming out strong against critical race theory, but what happened is people just rebranded it and it ended up seeping into the educational world anyways. And I think that there’s a potential that we can defeat it as an organized idea, but it’ll probably be rebranded and moved into practice in the school system anyways, because this is a worldview that now at least a significant minority of people in our country are holding to.

Gary Dull:                           Jamison, this discussion has become quite broad. Not only do we see it on the federal level and in our state houses, in our Capitol building in Washington, but we find it on the local level. And I think every one of us can remember when we have seen on our local news how that there have been some great discussions at some school boards concerning this issue. And of course, I’m thankful for parents who have gone to stand up and speak out against it. But my question to you is, what drives these parents and what moves them to take such action? What does this say to you about the thought process of Americans in general, at the local level, as it relates to their homes, where they live, and as it relates to this critical race theory?

                                             In other words, what is bringing such an uproar to these school boards? And maybe I can just add one more thought, why is it, and how has it become that these school boards have gone so liberal so quickly, or at least it appears that they’d gone so liberal so quickly?

Jamison Coppola:             Yeah, well, I think that’s a root and fruit question. I think the root of this has been growing in higher ed since the ’50s and ’60s. Definitely started to see it in the ’70s and ’80s as proclaimed in higher ed. But as far as your question, so we’re seeing that now filter down into the broader educational world, younger teachers, et cetera, that have been trained in higher ed.

                                             But I think your question about the American people and school boards, I think Americans are fundamentally sincere, good-hearted people. And they understand the traditional historic meaning of the American founding. And really it’s an experiment in self-government. They are not fundamentally racist people. And so they see CRT for what it is. It’s a thinly disguised hatred based on race and only masquerading as a form of equality.

                                             And so what it means to be American, people fundamentally understand, is not equality of outcome or equity, as we said earlier, but equality of opportunity. And they want that for the kids, because they understand that the result of the American experiment has been the most free and prosperous country for the majority of its citizens, really in the history of the world.

                                             And so I would say these parents understand CRT at a spiritual level. And they can’t even always articulate why it’s upsetting or why it’s wrong. And they’re fighting back in the best way they know how to. They’re exercising republican ideals of self-government, of having a voice, of trying to participate in the process, and they’re doing the best they know how to keep America the land of opportunity, not the land of cynicism, cronyism, animosity, all the things that come out of a system that bases decision-making on something as superficial as race.

                                             And so I’ve often said in this space, well how do you know, as people have asked, how do you know if CRT is actually at play? And I say, well, just take a statement from somebody that’s making a racial statement and just substitute the words white for black or black for white.

Keith Wiebe:                     And Jamison, I’m going to have to stop right there for just a moment. We’ll pick right back up on this thought when we come back of the substituting of words, because that is a very, very critical T. Stand in the Gap Today.


Keith Wiebe:                     Jamison, just before we broke for that break, you were talking to us about something of a personal check that a person can do, looking for racism from their own perspective. Take us through that again, would you?

Jamison Coppola:             Yeah. We were talking about how American people are good hearted and they can’t always see through the deceptiveness of what somebody that’s proposing. Critical race theory is saying. And a quick rule of thumb is if you just replace, anywhere somebody is talking about race, if you just replace white with black, or this new term, BIPOC, and I’m not exactly sure the pronunciation, but black, indigenous, person of color, if you just replace a racial element of that statement with the opposite or another race, and if it sounds racist, then probably somebody is giving you a false statement based on CRT assumptions, critical race theory’s assumptions, not on the traditional understanding of what it means to be racist. So it’s just a little rule of thumb that will help cut through sometimes the deceptiveness of how racial statements are made by proponents of critical race theory.

Keith Wiebe:                     When we come to the final segment today, we’re actually going to take a look at what is a biblical world view where racism is concerned. You will be surprised at that, but I think you will be pleased at the way that sort of completes the gap.

                                             Jamison, I’d like to turn just a little bit of a corner and talk about how this affects Christian education. How should Christian schools, I’m thinking about individual schools now, how should they handle the discussion about critical race theory within their own walls, within their classrooms? How should they handle it?

Jamison Coppola:             Well, Keith, I’m going to use a word picture. If our listeners will think about a body of water, an ocean, a large lake, or something like that, and then coves or harbors off of that larger body of water. What I like to say about Christian schools is we really do swim in the same cultural and educational waters as the larger society and our larger world. And so our schools are safe harbors. But they do exchange water with a greater educational ocean of our culture. So I hope that word picture helps you, because our teachers and students have access to information like never before. You think about things like achievement testing and college entrance requirements, all of these mechanisms within the larger educational society now, there’s an attempt to turn all of those, to restructure those, to deconstruct them and remake them according to critical race theory assumptions, beliefs, et cetera.

                                             And so all of these areas, there’s a challenge to adopt this new way of seeing values. And that’s really what education is trying to do, is trying to inculcate values into our kids. And so our students in Christian schools know something about the controversy. But really as academic institutions, we have to be preparing our students to do what scripture says. And that is to always give an answer to every man that asks you a reason for the hope that’s in you. And that word reason is important. They have to be able to argue why biblical values, why objective truth, that is explained and shaped by Christianity, are preferable, are true, are based on objective truth.

                                             And we have to help them to not be taken captive by philosophy. Colossians, Paul says these are philosophies according to human traditions, they’re full of empty deceit, and they’re according to the spirit of the world. And so we have to recognize the waters we swim in with our students, the waters our student swim in, and then help prepare them to have Christian ideas to counter these deceitful empty human ideas.

Keith Wiebe:                     I look at the coves that you talked about of protection, as a way that insulates our students some from it, but because they also are part of the larger ocean, neither are they immune from it all. So if I go from there, Jamison, and I go to the leadership of these ministries, we’re talking in this audience today to a lot of pastors, a lot of Christian school administrators, and we’re talking to a lot more people that have pastors and who have children in those Christian schools. What should the perspective be then of pastors? Of Christian school administrators? Maybe you can talk to us about their mindset, what their perspective ought to be, how they ought to be approaching this.

Jamison Coppola:             When I think about pastors and our Christian schools and the time period that we’re in, I’m reminded of the Psalmist, and often David, as he cries out, and I think he cries out at least once, “If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?” And that’s what we’re experiencing right now. We’re experiencing a time period where the foundations are being destroyed. The presuppositions that our culture and our society has been based on for centuries now are being undermined and eroded away. But what I also love about David is he doesn’t just talk to himself, he preaches to himself, he encourages himself in the Lord. And by the end of the Psalm, often he’s reminded himself to cry out to the God that is perfectly just, that is perfectly righteous. The God who sees and acts on our behalf.

                                             And so, like David is constantly encouraging himself in our Lord, we need pastors and lay people, Christian educators, to encourage ourselves in the Lord, because it really is going to take courage. We’re in a battle and we really need courageous believers who are equipped and able to fight this important battle. And so I would submit humbly that pastors should be teaching their congregation what the Bible has to say about the nature of truth, the nature of God’s creative order.

                                             It will mean studying CRT. It means studying the underlying ideas of this philosophy at a level deeply enough to be able to explain them to people, to be able to teach them how to defend the biblical Christian message as it relates to these ideas. Because we are going to have to work hard to stand opposed to the way the world is measuring value. The way the world is approaching race, which really is one of the more temporal considerations when we view humanity through an eternal lens.

Keith Wiebe:                     Well said, Jamison. Gary, I’d like to put you on the spot here just a little bit. You’ve been pastoring for a lot of years, and you have watched the evolution, maybe devolution is a better word, of what’s been happening in pulpits with pastors, with their proclamation of truth. Jamison reminded us that they need to guard their institutions, they need to do it courageously. What’s your observation, Gary? What’s been happening over the years that you’ve been pastoring?

Gary Dull:                           I’m not sure that I heard the first part of your question there, Keith, but my concern as it relates to the pulpit is this, that I think it’s very, very important that the pulpit, the pastor gets back to preaching the unadulterated word of God. We talk on this program about the biblical worldview, and the biblical worldview is simply what does the Bible say? It involves the concept of looking at everything through the scripture, through the eyes of the word of God. And I’m convinced over the years, Keith, that many pastors have gotten away from that over the pulpit. They deal with issues many times from a personal opinion, and sometimes even from a secular opinion, rather than from what the word of God says.

                                             And so we need to get back to the absolute truth that the word of God portrays, because the absolute truth of the word of God certainly does contradict and counteract the critical race theory. It tells us what God has done when He brought together one race with one blood, and many people in the world just don’t recognize that. So it’s important that we get back to biblical truth and live out that biblical truth, every element of our day by day life, looking at every situation from the perspective of what does the word of God say?

Keith Wiebe:                     I sat in a meeting several years ago where a constitutional attorney was briefing some administrators of Christian higher ed institutions. And he was telling them what they needed to do to be best prepared for the onslaught against their religious liberty in their higher education institutions. And I’ll never forget what he said. He said basically the same thing that we’ve been saying here, he said, “You must be bold with your declaration of truth. You must wear your convictions out on your sleeves,” were his words. That folks know where you stand. They know what you believe. You can’t try to slip incognito through all of these things and think that that’s going to somehow make it work. We’ve got to be bold with truth.

                                             And I would agree with you, Gary. I think we have watched pastors, they want to be novel in their approach to truth. They want to be relevant in the way they present it. And certainly that has a place, but there’s nothing more important than clearly declaring what does the Bible say about truth? That in fact is exactly what our people are looking for. That’s what they’re expecting. That’s what they need.

                                             George Barna told us that 92% of folks in the pew are wanting to hear from the pulpit what does the Bible have to say about what’s going on? And the tragedy is, George also found out that less than 10% of pastors are willing to do that. So you take the great majority of people who want to hear what the Bible say about it, and you say only a very small percentage of pastors that are willing to do that. And need we look any farther to find out part of the reason for the mess that we’re in. We are lacking that declarative, authoritative, clear proclamation of God’s truth.

                                             We’re going to talk about exactly how a biblical worldview applies to critical race theory when we come back, thank you so much for joining us today. We’ll return shortly.


Keith Wiebe:                     We’re talking today about critical race theory as it relates to education, and the contrast that that presents us with a biblical worldview. My host is Jamison Coppola. Jamison is the Government Relations Director for the American Association of Christian Schools. Jamison, you earlier in the broadcast called critical race theory a worldview. And I want to ask you, what would a biblical worldview approach look like? What should be our attitude, our perspective toward people who have ethnic, economic, social differences from us? How do we approach them with a biblical worldview?

Jamison Coppola:             Yeah, that’s a great question, Keith. And Christianity in our modern culture oftentimes gets a bad rap. But if you look at a comprehensive objective history of Christianity, Christianity has always had, well, we’ll use the terms we used earlier, a social justice emphasis. In other words, it’s looked at poverty, it’s looked at injustice, it’s looked at the real problems of the world and said, as a Christian, I ought to do something about it. And they’ve done it regardless of these surface level evaluations that CRT says are necessary in order to make decisions.

                                             And so you have all sorts of practitioners of Christianity that have put into practice this idea that scripture reminds us of to not show partiality. Christians are to take a gospel message and good work into the world to help people that are different than us. And that’s what Christians have always done. It’s a core part of who we are.

                                             I think also about this is, even in the old Testament where sometimes we look at and we see God’s justice and His law, and sometimes in the righteousness of His judgment, but all through that, when God talks about human judgment, He says, listen, don’t give partiality to people. You shouldn’t look at the rich man and judge against him simply because he’s rich, and you shouldn’t look at the poor man and judge against him simply because he’s poor. There’s supposed to be an impartiality in Christianity’s approach to all people.

                                             And so, I’m confident that if you judge Christianity not by the people who are operating in opposition to what Christians say Christianity is, but if you judge it by its best practitioners, those people who best exemplify the virtues and the values of Christianity, we see this fair, just, impartial belief system that seeks to help people and to solve the temporal problems of the world.

Gary Dull:                           Every day on the news Jamison, we hear race, race, race, race, race, race, race, race, race. And we’re not talking about the Daytona 500. And it’s just out there all of the time. And this is something that’s infiltrating the hearts and the minds of Christians and non-Christians alike. Here on Stand in the Gap, we do everything that we possibly can to look at everything through the eyes of the scripture and to use the biblical perspective. So what should be our biblical perspective toward race? And even more specifically, what does the Bible teach about race from God’s perspective?

Jamison Coppola:             I like how when Jesus was questioned by people on something like marriage, he didn’t give them an answer based in Mosaic Law, even though they were trying to get him to, he went back to the creative order. And I think that’s, as Christians, we ought to do, we go back to the creative order. And God made a man and a woman, His original creation. He didn’t make us according to race. And so, when the Bible says that we’re all of one blood, that’s what it means, that race is in some ways, I’ll give a little bit of space to postmodernism, to say race is in some ways a construct. It is something that is a surface level… Has the appearance of something significant, but fundamentally every human being is of one blood.

                                             Galatians tells us that in Jesus Christ, as Christians, we’re all sons of God. The creative order tells us we’re all children of God. It goes on to say that as Christians, we’re not to see people according to their heritage, Jew, or Greek, or their race, or even the fact if they’re slave or free, or even male or female, there’s a certain fundamental humanity for every created being.

                                             And so, we might summarize that with the words of Acts that Paul gives before the people at Athens, when he says that God, the creator God that Paul is describing that they worship ignorantly, he says, “He hath made of one blood all nations for men to dwell on the face of the earth, and hath determined the times appointed and the bounds of their habitation.” And so there’s a generosity in Christianity that looks beyond race to the fundamental humanness of every person. And that is the equality that I think America and Western civilization is working to work out in our society.

Keith Wiebe:                     That’s very well said. I thought, and you’ve made some reference to this verse in Galatians as well, where scripture says, “There is neither Jew nor Greek, neither slave nor free, no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” And based on that and the testimony of the rest of scripture, we believe there actually is one human race. Many ethnicities, many different backgrounds, there are different nationalities, there are different cultures, but there is actually one human race. You get past the skin color, some of those external differences. Somebody made the observation that there’s maybe 2% or less of difference that’s actually there in all of us.

                                             Jamison, I’m sure we have people who wonder where can they go to get good, accurate information about all of this? How would you recommend that pastors, Christian school administrators, other folks keep up with what’s happening with critical race theory, with this whole discussion? Are there a couple of books you could recommend? Podcast people that you suggest they listen to? Where can they go?

Jamison Coppola:             So I’ll close with a couple of thoughts on how our pastors and Christian school administrators can respond to this. And of course, part of that will be educating ourselves about these issues. But I would say this in closing, avoid reactionary responses to CRT. The answer to hate not more hate. We serve a God of love. So love is the answer to the hate that we see expressed in CRT, the animosity. But it is a tough love, because it can’t back away from the truth. And it is a tough love that I think may require us to suffer through some of the cancel culture, some of the difficult conversations, some of the attempts to silence us because we are trying to proclaim God’s truth.

                                             And so part of how we should respond is avoid reactionary response, equip ourselves. Pastors need to equip themselves to understand CRT and its deceptive message of false equality, and then to guard their institutions from these ideas.

                                             And ways that you can do that. I’ll put a little plug in for our intern this summer. We’re working right now through the Abolition of Man. It’s a great book that approaches this idea of objective truth and how to educate kids in objective truth and away from subjectivism. So I can recommend the Abolition of Man, if you’ve not read that. Mere Christianity, I think is a good companion to that.

                                             There’s a good book that’s a primer to understand specifically critical race theory and other theories, intersectionality, feminist theory, queer theory, all of these theories now that are coalescing together as a group in our society. And that would be the book Cynical Theories by James Lindsay and Helen Pluckrose. And again, I’m pleased, our intern’s doing a great job for us this year, but we’ve been able to have conversations around Abolition of Man and Cynical Theories. And these are helpful resources for our pastors.

                                             And then I’ll close with a podcast. I know a lot of us are busy. There’s a podcast by Darrell Harrison and Virgil Walker called Just Thinking Podcast. And these are two black men that are taking this issue of race head on from a very biblical perspective.

Keith Wiebe:                     Jamison, thanks so much. These are great resources. Thank you for joining us today.