This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program originally airing on May 2, 2023. To listen to the program, please click HERE.
Sam Rohrer: Well, thank you for joining me here today, here on this Tuesday edition of Stand in the Gap today. If you were with me yesterday, JR McGee and I discussed what is in essence a two-part focus, the way I laid it out yesterday, a focus on our changing world and specifically a changing America. Global events and domestic events are transitioning, it seems, at lightning speed. No one can honestly deny that fundamental foundational changes are occurring. New global alliances are rising, amazingly fast it seems, like for instance, Russia and China, India, Iran, Brazil, South Africa, the BRICS nations, those are, but a whole lot more, and they’re producing a formidable challenge to what has been the prevailing power of this world for the last 100 years, that is the United States and Europe, the whole western world after the victories of World War I and II.
No one can deny honestly that the emergence of the efforts at a consolidated global government dominated, it seems, by China. But it’s also led by Western elite made up of individuals like the World Economic Forum, for instance, the Bill Gates of the world, the George Soroses of the world, the Noah Yuval Hararis, and the godless United Nations centered right up here, not far off from where I’m sitting in New York City, America, all of that. You can’t deny that honestly.
And as we highlighted yesterday, no matter how one looks at what’s happening to America, whether it be from the outside in or from the inside out, the American Empire, put it that way, is in the midst of transition with China. As we said yesterday, it seems to be at least at the moment in the driver’s seat in driving hard against America. Well, that was our focus yesterday. Today my special guest is also a recurring guest here in the program, Sam Faddis, retired CIA operations officer, senior partner with Artemis, LLC, and a published author and senior editor for AND, A-N-D, magazine.
The title I’ve chosen to guide today’s focus in this is History Repeats: from the Roman Empire to the American Empire. And as I said yesterday on this program, it brings me no pleasure personally to speak about what’s happening to our country, within our country, but the evidence is overwhelming as stated by various men in various ways in the past from Edmond Burke as an example, to Spanish philosopher George Santayana, to Winston Churchill. They said essentially, as Churchill said, “Those who failed to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” Or as Burke cited, “Those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it.” And though we sit in a time in history where from the standpoint of available information we are the richest of all civilizations in access to knowledge, we are perhaps the most destitute in actual knowledge.
When college level students, for instance, from around the world under many surveys evident that they cannot properly place the locations of the oceans of the world and believe that Portugal and Spain are actually located on the continent of Africa, we are in dire straits. And as our institutions of knowledge have thrown out moral truth as established by God the creator as we know in the Declaration of Independence cites then, we’ve become fools, not knowing right from wrong and not learning one of the most important thing in human civilization, that is empires do not last forever. They rise and they fall.
And that brings us to our comparison today of the Empire of Rome that lasted for nearly 500 years and impacted the world but collapsed ultimately. And I will submit for the very same reasons that America is collapsing as we speak. And as the Romans of old denied the reality of their time and the citizens of Rome became enamored with plenty and the false sense of security, they ultimately fell as did the Babylonian Empire before them, the Greek Empire, then the later Ottoman Empire. The amazing thing is that with all the available knowledge to the West in America as the leader of the West, so many can live so deceived and convince themselves that we are indomitable and will live as we have lived forever. And that brings me to the program today, History Repeats: From the Roman Empire to the American Empire. And with that, I welcome you Sam to the program. Thanks for being with me.
And with that, Sam is not there for me to ask him a question, so I’m going to do this ladies and gentlemen, because I have a question I want to ask him but I also do want to say this. History shows, and to which most historians agree, that there was not one single cause for the fall of Rome. The weakening of Rome’s strength occurred over many decades with both internal and external evidences. I submit that by all evidence, America is following the same path. And the replacement power in America will be as it was in Rome, not benevolent, but tyrannical and cruel. Please allow me if I could to identify the seven causes most generally accepted as the cause for the fall of the Roman Empire. Here they go.
Number one, migration and barbarian invasion. Migration and barbarian invasion. You might call that open border. Number two, corruption in government and within government officials. Number three, climate change and famine. Interesting, isn’t it? Number four, disloyal and ineffective military. And with that, military leaders and strategies as well. Number five, civil wars. Number six, economic deterioration and destitution. You call that any kind of, that’s financial, that’s economics, it’s a whole host of things. And then number seven, weak leadership. Weak leadership. Now with that, those are the seven we’re going to cover today in the program. Sam, are you back with me?
Sam Faddis: I am, sir.
Sam Rohrer: Okay, we dropped you, but let me ask you a quick question and fortunately it only requires a short answer, but this is my question to you. The weakening of Rome’s strength occurred over many decades, internal/external evidences that I submit we in America are following the same path. Here’s my question to you, I guess. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being America secure with no imminent threats to 1 being on the bottom, American collapsed with many viable threats, where would you place America and the American Empire put it in that perspective on that scale today?
Sam Faddis: Well, somewhere well below 5 and dropping all the time. That’s where I would see us.
Sam Rohrer: All right, and that brings us up to the break, but we are not secure. We do have imminence, that’s what you’re saying. And where we are is changing rapidly. That’s basically what you’re saying?
Sam Faddis: Yes, sir.
Sam Rohrer: Okay, ladies and gentlemen, all right, that’s where we’re establishing the program to begin today. So when we come back, I’m going to engage discussion with Sam Faddis, retired CIA operations officer as we begin to look at the seven causes for Rome’s fall, as I decided, and walk them through of them in comparison to where we are in America today.
Sam Rohrer: Welcome back to Stand in the Gap today. Our focus kind of ties together to yesterday’s program, but today’s entitled History Repeats: From the Roman Empire to the American Empire. In the last segment, I gave the seven causes generally accepted to be the reasons for the fall of Rome. Now, while they generally accepted these seven causes, while they’re significant, there’s not one that was the cause. They all contributed to the gradual weakening and collapse of the once mighty Roman Empire. And like frogs in a boiling pot, the Roman leaders and citizens became isolated, it seems, from the realities of an evil world and became incrementally devoid of wisdom in believing the lie they did, just like we are today and many others have, the lie of invincibility. They became, well, in effect, cooked in their own undoing, unable to free themselves from collapse.
They actually didn’t see it coming. They became proud. They closed their eyes to the duties of the maintenance, which it does require. Freedom requires maintenance of the rule of law, the enforcement of justice, the punishment of true evil doers, and they neglected their primary duty to protect those who kept the law. Those who lived righteously, particularly according to God’s moral plan for a blessed society. They became convinced in pride that their greatness came from their own hands, not understanding that many years before God had predicted in the Book of Daniel that he would cause there to be the rise of the Roman Empire as well as the Greek Empire before it, and the preceding Babylonian Empire.
The Romans cut God in moral truth from their minds and their considerations toward life and public policy. They just thought they had a better way. And for those in positions of governmental authority, people became more concerned about their own power and money and lust for entertainment, and they developed a sense of false security, but they fell as did the empires before them and after them.
So Sam Faddis, you heard the seven that I gave. Let’s just walk down through some of those. I think, for instance, the first one that is on the list that I found and I put together strikes me rather remarkably parable to America, and that was the evidence and the impact of migration and what is termed the barbarian invasion. I may substitute my own word and just say open border policy, but speak to that and what is happening in our country and how it is impacting change in America as we speak.
Sam Faddis: Well, I mean, yeah, open border is probably accurate. I mean, I think to be quite honest with you, you could simply say that there are no borders at the present time. Even Americans who are following these issues, folks that are listening to this show that are obviously concerned about the state of the country, I don’t think still appreciate what is happening. We are not attempting to enforce the law in failing. We are not enforcing the law, but not as vigorously as we should. We are not only not enforcing the law, we are actively working to bring into this country millions of people in violation of our laws. Literally across Central America, there’s a whole conveyor belt of camps that move people north. They’re all run by the United Nations or other NGOs. But the lions share of that money comes directly from the United States government.
Secretary Mayorkas Homeland Security Secretary, that’s an oxymoron, just came back from Panama. He did not go there to try to figure out how to restrict the flow. He went there to double the capacity of the camps moving people north. I just was watching video this morning from a good friend who’s a reporter on the border showing American heavy equipment being used on our side of the border to clear trees and brush to make a better landing spot on our side of the Rio Grande to facilitate the movement of people across the border. So our policy is not even arguably anymore to restrict immigration. It is in fact to facilitate and encourage migration. That is our explicit policy. So we are moving the world into the United States of America, completely changing the composition of the country.
Sam Rohrer: Okay. Sam, though it may be obvious to most people, it’s obvious to you, it’s obvious to me, but I know for Rome, as I read history, they began to disregard their borders as well. There were people who began to come across from their north, it was the north of the Roman Empire, the folks who came across there. For us, it’s the south primarily. But here’s what may or may not be obvious. Give me just a few reasons from a security perspective of why an opened unfettered invitation for people from around the world, what that does to the weakening of America.
Sam Faddis: Well, I mean obviously superficially, we can talk about the fact that once you’ve abandoned control of your border, you have no control over the presence of terrorist groups, criminal organizations, disease, all of these kinds of things. But on a more fundamental level, what you’re giving up is any control over the nature of your country, your institutions, so forth. So we are importing. As I said, we are actively bringing here folks, not just from Central America and Mexico, but literally essentially every country and the globe. In fact, Chinese are coming in here in huge numbers now.
So we have a basic structure in this country of rules, laws and institutions, which has been accepted by and adopted by every wave of immigration since the beginning of the country, since before it was a country, since we were colonies. We’re now throwing that all to the winds. We are no longer in any controlled fashion, bringing people here, and if you will, assimilating them. And I’m not talking about neutering them. Every wave of immigration changes the country to some extent. That’s always been true. But everybody buys into the idea of the United States and its laws and its institutions. Well, we just threw that out. You can’t bring millions and millions and millions and millions of people here from literally all over the world and then think that you retain the structure of your society and your laws. You’ve jettisoned all that. You’ve put yourself into free fall, and I think we’re absolutely seeing that all over the country. It’s national suicide on some level.
Sam Rohrer: All right. I think we could go much, much deeper into that, but I think we’re just going to let that hang there, Sam. I think it’s obvious. I mean, budgetarily, we can’t do it. It’s taxing our schools. It’s taxing all of our infrastructure. We can’t do it for all of the reasons. Plus we’re bringing in people, like you say, sickness. We’re bringing in the young men who could be part of external armies, military guys. So all right, let that hang. A second point on the cause for the fall of Rome, Sam, was one that was identified as corruption in government. Got to be a parallel to America too, isn’t there?
Sam Faddis: Yeah. I mean, if on some level, maybe with a big C corruption in more generality, I would say this is really at the heart of what is happening. Our corruption of our politicians, corruption of our institutions. I mean, we’ve always obviously understood that on some level there would be people taking money or corrupt, but we are talking about corruption now on a scale that just really negates the rule of law, right? I mean, we have a president who took north of $30 million from Chinese intelligence officers and people tied to the Chinese Communist Party, not only not accountable. Nobody’s even trying to hold him accountable. Everyday we are facing this. We are weaponizing our institutions against political opponents.
The Roman’s obviously at a very different society. But originally as the republic, they were not only had laws, but traditions, norms, lines nobody would cross, patterns of behavior. They lived themselves. They had a very rigorous commitment to their society. And as they moved along, as you’ve suggested, all of that went away. The only thing that mattered anymore was getting rich and getting power, and it just rotted everything to the point where… I mean, well, it caused ultimately their demise, right? That’s where we are. It’s not just some petty official is getting away with murder and taking some money under the table. This is corruption at the highest levels in the most central way.
Sam Rohrer: Sam, there’s not enough time for me to ask you a third question. But ladies and gentlemen, can I just give a comment here on that? Biblically, the concept of open borders, what is the problem with that biblically? Because God designed sovereign nations. Nations are God’s doing. He raises up and puts them down. You have no borders without having a nation. If you have no borders, what do you have? Well, what you have is a government that is becoming like what is being pushed right now a global government, which cannot have national boundaries and borders. That’s only one part of it. When it comes to corruption, God said to Israel that one of those things that would happen when they threw him off would be that they would be consumed with bribery and corruption. No longer justice, but bribery. All right, no matter how you look at it, these two are important. They’re here. They describe us. It definitely described Rome. When we come back, we’ll just go further into this list of seven clauses for the fall of Rome, and parallel an application to America today.
Sam Rohrer: We’re going to continue on the comparison between the Roman Empire and what I’m calling the American Empire. Here are the seven just very quickly just so you have them. These are the generally causes for the fall of the Roman Empire; migration and barbarian invasion, corruption in government and government officials, climate change and famine, disloyal and ineffective militaries, civil wars, economic deterioration and destitution, and weak leadership. So Sam Faddis, my guest here today, retired CIA operations officer, and right now functioning extensively as a senior editor for AND magazine, A-N-D, magazine. You can find their website at andmagazine.com and all the many articles that are written.
But Sam, let’s just move into a couple of more. We will again go as far as we can go, but I found one in addition to the open borders we’ve talked about that the corruption bribery generally becoming just a part of the system, which when that happens, then all kinds of things happen. Justice flies out the window, greed becomes dominant, honor and integrity disappear. Those are the kinds of things that happen as a result. But the number five reason that was on here that caught my attention was internal civil wars.
Now, in reality, we as a nation, we know we have fought one military civil war, and that was back in the 1860s, right? But on the other hand, I wonder if civil wars don’t have to be fought hand to hand. The enemy has always attempted to divide and conquer, and I’d like to have your thoughts on this, that whereas we may not be fighting in multitude range of civil wars within America, as some say it may actually come in reality. I’m wondering if we perhaps aren’t in the middle of a great civil war with divisions of all types if we interpret civil war that way, but what are your thoughts on that?
Sam Faddis: Yeah, well, I think it’s a completely valid point. I mean, first of all, we should note that it is not too farfetched, I think. I would’ve thought it was science fiction once but I don’t think so anymore to envision that we are in an age where things are so heated and we are so divided that it could actually come to open armed conflict. I pray that that will never happen. We’re still trying to heal the wounds from 150 years ago, so that’s a disaster. That’s horrifying. But think about what we see in the streets already, the extent to which groups in our country have decided to again throw away norms, traditions, and laws and resort to force. Burning cities, burning police precincts, threatening to assassinate. Supreme Court Justices talking about a political opponent should not be able to go anywhere in public without being hounded and assaulted and harassed. This is increasingly the norm.
And to come back to something I was saying before, Rome, particularly when it was a republic, which is what it was originally, again a very different society, but those kinds of things were not tolerated. Some of that was written law, some of that was just built into the fabric of their society. There were norms, there were lines you didn’t cross. He would never do these things. And yet as the republic disintegrated in particular and it became an empire, all of that became the norm. It really long before we get to the point where there were Roman armies fighting each other, which ultimately happened, political opponents were being beaten and killed in the street. That was the way you got rid of your political opponent. You didn’t bother to beat him at the ballot box anymore. You assassinated him. And look around you. It would be hard to say that we’re not on that road right now, that we’re heading down that same path right now.
Sam Rohrer: We are. And Sam, I’ve noticed having been in office for a long time, it seems that over maybe the last dozen years or so, maybe a little bit longer than that, that what was possible, even in debates on the floor, debating legislation, that debates could be at least civil. Even though one side may completely vehemently disagree with the position of the other side, they were at least civil. But it seems like these last years, there has been a rise in thinking where that, “If I’m in a position of power and I can bludgeon you my opponent over the head, I will do it.” Matter of fact, some are even saying to the point that those who think like you and I think constitutionally and that there are some things that are right and some things that are always wrong, that we don’t even deserve to have the right to participate. That is in fact, that’s a division. That’s kind of like a civil war, at least ideologically. Is it not?
Sam Faddis: Yeah, without question. And increasingly, it is increasingly common to see people say, and of course these days online all the time, that their political opponents deserve to be killed, to die. That kind of language is used openly now. And increasingly, I mean, you see that this administration does it. If you are politically opposed to them and express a contrary viewpoint to which to what they claim is the truth, they define it as disinformation. They define disinformation as encouraging violence. They define it therefore as the equivalent of violence. In other words, you, by expressing a contrary opinion, are now the same as a terrorist. You are, in their terms, a domestic violent extremist.
Why does that matter? Well, it matters because legally it now justifies them to threaten the use of and even begin to use all the force of the state against you. Since you are now a terrorist, since you are now a domestic violent extremist, you don’t have freedom of speech because what you’re doing is an act of violence and terrorists, even though you’re just talking. Therefore, you can be killed, you can be arrested, you can be silent. I mean, can there really be anything more dangerous to society than that? It destroys everything.
Sam Rohrer: Yeah, absolutely. So ladies and gentlemen, hear what’s being said. We cite these things. And again, drawing the parallel. What undercut and contributed to the cause of the fall of the great Roman Empire? These are things we’re talking about. Listen to what is happening here. I share these things with us not to sensationalize and/or to scare from that perspective, but absolutely too alert because we are in a different day. We must as watchmen on the wall speak out and say these are facts no matter how you look at.
Let’s move to another one here, Sam, for some comment. And that was in this list it was number six, but I don’t think these were necessarily put in order as I pulled them out. But one was that as Rome expanded and they got bigger and bigger and they had far-flung entities that they were supporting that economically they began to deteriorate. And ultimately, they collapsed economically. At least that was one part of the thing. Well, that’s a big deal and speaks really to where we are in America today with so many things we’re seeing before us, doesn’t it?
Sam Faddis: Yeah. I mean, you talked about the American century, right? I mean, okay, there are a lot of components to the winning of World War I and World War II and the Cold War, including a lot of courage and a lot of bravery and a lot of sacrifice. But foundationally, you have to say that what allowed the United States of America to do all that was economic power. It was not just money. It was factories, it was production. It was, “Okay, we’ve got X number of Sherman tanks and we’re going to get 100 times as many Sherman tanks before the end of this conflict. The Japanese just sank X number of aircraft carriers. Well, we’re going to build 100 more in the next three years.” We’ve hollowed out that economy, right? We’ve gutted it.
I mean, because at the top of this thing, there are people that are insanely wealthy, have more money than anybody ever had in the history of mankind, but they’re doing it on the backs of the Chinese guy who gets paid nothing and lives six men to a room in a dormitory and sees his family once a year, and the backs of the Americans who live in the towns, well, all over the state of Pennsylvania next to the mill that doesn’t operate anymore, and the stores that are closed. I mean, we’ve gutted that economy. It does not exist anymore.
One of the big issues in national security is literally coming down to brass tacks of things like we’ve given a million artillery shells, probably more than that to the Ukrainians. And guess what? It’ll take us five years or something like that to replace them because there’s almost no place in the United States that makes them anymore. Everybody talks about M1 Abrams tanks to Ukraine. There’s one factory in America that makes Abram tanks. They produce maximum output 12 tanks a month. That’s the entire production of the Great American Empire at the present time. So I mean, that’s gutting the whole power. That whole foundation on which we built this thing is gone.
Sam Rohrer: Ladies and gentlemen, as we look economically, and we didn’t have time even to talk about it, but $31 trillion in debt, we can’t repay that. We have a dollar right now that the world is forsaking. 24 nations now lining up with the NRICS nation to drop the dollar. That have an impact, it is happening as we speak. We’ll be back with some concluding thoughts in the next segment.
Sam Rohrer: All right, well, this program has moved very quickly. We just simply did not have enough time to go through everything. But again, if you’re listening, this program kind of coordinates with the one that we did yesterday. I did yesterday with JR McGee, America in Troubled Transition: New Management Underway was the title of that program, talking about there is change happening to our nation. So if you’re listening to me and you are an American citizen, most are, but I mean clearly most are listening right now are citizens, but some listen from around the world, it’s speaking to us, and that’s who we’re addressing this to pretty much today. But change is underway. So what do you do and how we perceive it?
Well, this program today moves what we were yesterday to this one today that history repeats and the fact that people don’t learn from history, and we talked about that in the first segment. In comparing to where we are now, the Roman Empire which came and went, and the American Empire, which in some respects is some aspects more influential and more expansive in many ways than the Roman Empire was, but changes underway, and that’s what we’re talking about. When Rome fell, it didn’t fall in a night. It fell over a period of time. And it wasn’t one cause alone. It was multiple causes that worked together. But there were common things, and we’ve addressed some of them. A big one was an open border with people coming across and diluting the makeup of the nation and bringing an ideologies of different nature and actually enemies coming across the border then, and it just watered them down. They couldn’t stand.
Then there was an economic impact where they were spread so deep and so broad and so far, and well, like we have today, corruption in government. That was a big one where the governmental leaders were no longer concerned about their duties to the people as citizens, to the law, the rule of law, but became driven and consumed with making money for themselves. And selfish greed drove their ambitions and they became very proudful and just thought that, “Well, we’re the Roman Empire. We can’t fall.” Well, make those parallels to today. We try to wrap it up and bring some now conclusion thoughts to this. Because to observe is one thing, to do something about it is another.
But if I could share in my study and preparation for all of this, there’s some general lessons from history that are considered, and I’m going to lay out a couple of these. I think they’re incontrovertible. Here’s one, and we need to listen to them today. Number one, nations rise and nations fall. That’s a fact, okay? Number two, people throughout civilization routinely deceive themselves and they view themselves smarter than anyone else who went before them. That happens too, doesn’t it? Here’s a third one, power abhors a vacuum, and weak national leadership as we see in America today, always invites invasion.
Now, that’s just from a general historical perspective, but from a spiritual and biblical perspective, there are a couple of others that I think are incontrovertible. Number one, it is God who raises up nations and puts them down. Secondly, it is God who raises up leaders within nations, and he also puts them down. Third, God gives clear instructions for any nation who wants to become free and blessed of God and blessed with material blessings, and he links warnings to all nations who forsake God and will reap judgment, loss of freedom, and ultimate collapse in war as a result. The Bible gives those points and our founders identified and agreed to those.
Number four, all of history will follow and align with God’s greater plan of redemption as it revolves around the nation of Israel. And all nations find their purpose in time as they contribute to the furtherance of God’s plan for Israel. For instance, ultimately, we know from Genesis that all nations are blessed if they bless Israel and all nations are cursed and judged if they curse Israel. So there are some larger sovereign plans that undergird all these things. And if there’s time, I’ll comment just briefly on a couple of those things before we conclude.
But Sam, from your perspective as a former CIA guy, you’re a national intelligence guy, you’re a historical guy as well, but putting all those things together, taking this information that we’ve talked about today and so much, we just didn’t have time to go over it, but how should a person who is a God-fearing, law-abiding, constitutional, respecting person who loves freedom and not tyranny, how should a person in a practical sense respond to the types of things we talked about today?
Sam Faddis: Engage. Do not despair. Do not quit. Don’t go down this road that unfortunately too many people go down these road these days where they just sort of say like, “We lost. It’s all over, man.” No, get in the game. Well, I’ll give you another historical reference, not a Roman reference. Teddy Roosevelt, right? “Do what you can with what you have, where you are. Stop waiting for the guy in the white horse to save you and stop waiting for a silver bullet. Do what you can with what you have, where you are.” Get engaged.
And the last thing I would say is when you are talking to your elected officials, the folks that are supposed to be combating all these things, focus on results and actions, not rhetoric. All of these people are very schooled at talking out of both sides of their mouth and making it sound like they’re doing something and not lifting a finger to change the direction of events. So I’m not interested in rhetoric, right? I’m not interested. Talk is cheap. Get involved, get engaged. Demand results. Refuse to allow this drift to continue. Somebody who needs to stand up and confront the people who were doing this to our country. And we got here collectively as a country, we will get out of this collectively, but everybody’s got to pull together.
Sam Rohrer: All right. And Sam, I think that is good fundamental advice. Ladies and gentlemen, if I could take now just a couple of moments and conclude some spiritual comments in regard to that. And that is this, we are still living in a representative republic, though greatly abused. We still have a constitutionally, though generally ignored, right? We see justice being inverted into injustice. We see the things that we’re talking about today, the open borders, the neglect of law, the bribed officials in the office, people pursuing their personal goals instead of that which is higher according to God’s law. We see these things, they are correct. They’re happening.
So the question is this, as Sam said, do you just give up? No, we can’t give up. As citizens, we cannot give up. We do, and we must operate within the freedom and the duties and responsibilities that we have under our frame of representative government knowing though that it is quickly leaving the concept of representative government to become far more tyrannical in its approach. We do know that. But as believers, God-fearing people, we do know that we operate out of integrity, obligation, doing that which is rape.
So here’s what I say. We must, before God and as a citizen, choose a biblical worldview of life, choose to do and follow that which God says, think the way the Bible says. That’s why our founders did it. They approached what we have here in America today, our system of government, everything about it, is because people said, “We’re going to fear God rather than man. And we’re going to take and we’re going to learn from history,” and they put it together. And that’s what we have. So we fear God, we keep His commandments, and we honor our obligation under our form of government to do what is right according to how God has established. That’s what we do, and we defend that which is truth. The truth will set one free, which you have to pursue the truth. You have to embrace it, and then make a decision. As we say so regular in the program, stand in the gap for truth. Thanks for being with us today. See you [inaudible 00:38:58].