Eternity Realities: What’s Down with Hell

May 28, 2024

Host: Jamie Mitchell

Guest: Ryan Day

Note: This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program originally aired on 3/5/24. To listen to the podcast, click HERE.

Disclaimer:         While reasonable efforts have been made to provide an accurate transcription, the following is a representation of a mechanical transcription and as such, may not be a word for word transcript. Please listen to the audio version for any questions concerning this dialogue.

Jamie Mitchell:

It’s good to have you back for yet another stand in the gap today. I am Jamie Mitchell, the director of church Culture with the American Pastors Network. It’s my joy to host a second program in a row on what we’re calling Eternity Realities. Yesterday we kicked off our discussion with Dr. Corey Marsh and looked at What’s Up with Heaven. I want to encourage you, if you did not listen to yesterday’s edition of Stand In the Gap, please go to our website or to our app and listen to it and better send it to a pastor or another believer. They will be encouraged as you will, and hopefully they will see the need, especially your pastor, to start preaching, teaching and discussing heaven. Now, today we take a little bit of a downward turn in our study on eternity as encouraging heaven can be equally so hell can be tragic news, especially if you have not come to faith in Christ.

Hell should be terrifying, sobering, soul shaking and cause the follower Christ to be motivated to share the good news of redemption when they fully understand what is ahead for many of their friends and loved ones who don’t know Christ. Today on Standing the Gap, our topic what’s Down with Hell and to help us gain some insights on hell is Corey Marsh’s, pastor Ryan Day from Revolve Bible Church in Southern California. First off, Ryan, if there’s anything that we should know about Corey, I’m hoping that you can share us. We are all ears and how did he get heaven and you get hell and whatever else

Ryan Day:

You want to say. That was my first question, Jamie. I’m not sure about that.

Jamie Mitchell:

Well, welcome to Stand in the Gap, my dear brother and I can tell you why because I listened to you preach a sermon on hell and I got to tell you, Ryan, sad to say it was encouraging to hear a pastor preach on hell.

Ryan Day:

Well, thanks for saying that. It is a subject that unfortunately today is fallen on hard times, I think.

Jamie Mitchell:

Yes, Ryan, I was trying to insert a little bit of levity because this is going to be a heavy subject today and I want to start by asking you what I asked Corey yesterday, and that is why do believers and especially pastors shy away from discussing the details of a topic like hell? And I might be asking the obvious why is it detrimental to our spiritual life to ignore this subject?

Ryan Day:

That’s a great question. I’m not entirely sure why the subject is ignored. I think on the surface it’s probably because it’s a difficult subject to preach. I mean, it’s not fun to stand up in front of people and warn them about the reality of hell. I think that it’s critically important for us to preach on hell. First, I would say for the glory of God, subject of hell is intimately tied to the God’s character and his nature. And second, I would say for the sake of the gospel, people aren’t going to understand all that Christ has done until they first understand the bad news. And the bad news is that we’re all sinners and as a result, we all deserve God’s judgment in wrath, but hell defines for us what God’s wrath actually looks like or the application rather of God’s wrath.

Jamie Mitchell:

Ryan, I have watched over the years, I’m a little bit of an old dog. I’ve been at this now for 40 plus years and I have watched the iterations of pastoral ministry and I go back to about 15, 20 years ago when we began to redesign church to be a place for unbelievers to come instead of where believers get equipped and then go out and reach the unbeliever. Is that what you have seen and have seen as a pastor that our design of our church philosophy and ministry essentially affects the message that we preach? And if we’re designing a church that we think should be for the believer, then talking about hell is not really one of your top subjects.

Ryan Day:

Yeah, Jamie, I think you hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately, the seeker sensitive movement did seek to appeal to unbelievers, but unfortunately Romans three, Paul is explicitly clear. There is no one who seeks after God. I think yeah, people are, they’re searching around in the dark and they’re looking for some type of spiritual experience, but without the regenerating work of God in the heart, there’s nothing we can do to help those that are dead in their trespasses and sins. What people that are dead in their trespasses and sins need us to do is they need us to proclaim the word of God, the gospel of God and warn them in love about what’s ahead for them if they don’t repent and turn to Christ. The message that unbelievers need to hear is what Jesus has done, but people aren’t going to fully grasp what Jesus has actually done if we are not talking about the doctrine of hell.

Jamie Mitchell:

Yeah, I mean we basically have taken out of the vocabulary of the church, the word sin, wrath, hell damnation. And you’ve made a great point, Ryan. It isn’t good news unless we first have some bad news, but it’s also how we say it. I mean as I listened to you preach on hell, it was with great compassion and love. And so our tone on a subject like this is equally important, isn’t it?

Ryan Day:

Yeah, absolutely. I once heard a pastor, two pastors having a conversation and one pastor said, can you believe that there’s people in hell right now? Hell is eternal conscious torment. And the other pastor responded and said, yeah, but can you say that without weeping? And I think that there is a great reality to when you understand hell, you begin to understand that the most unloving thing you can do to unbelievers is to not warn them about what’s ahead. And when you really grasp what scripture says about hell, it’s a place that moves me personally, emotionally as I think about the people that I know that are potentially going there or people that I know that have died in their sins and are currently in hell right now. And that’s a grievous thing to me.

Jamie Mitchell:

Yeah. Friends, I want to exhort you today. You’re listening to the program, you’re now listening to the first segment. You say, oh, today they’re talking about hell, I don’t need this or I don’t want to listen to this. Listen, don’t go anywhere. What we are considering today is woefully absent from pulpits in America. When we come back, we’re going to start to drill down on hell. It’s an important subject and we’re dealing with it today on Standing the Gap today. Well welcome back and today we continue our discussion on eternity realities and specifically what’s down with Hell. My guest is Pastor Ryan Day from Revolve Bible Church in Southern California. Ryan, let’s get at it here. As I mentioned before, clarity is never our enemy, so let’s get some clarity When we talk about hell biblically, where is it? What is it? How does the Bible describe it? Can you give us four or five truths about hell that every believer should know?

Ryan Day:

Yeah, Jamie, that’s a good question. Some truths about hell that every believer should know. First, I would encourage believers that the doctrine of hell is not simplistic in scripture. It’s not overly complicated, but at the same time, it’s not simplistic. Part of the confusion as it relates to the doctrine of hell is that the King James version of the Bible translates several words into the English word hell. More modern translations that we have are more precise as it relates to the language. And that’s important because as we look at what scripture says about hell, we discover that it’s multifaceted. The intermediate state, which is the place that all people go, believers go into an intermediate state and unbelievers go into an intermediate state upon death, unbelievers go to hell. And then the intermediate state, the Old Testament uses the word shield and the New Testament uses the word Hades.

The scripture seems to indicate that that’s in the center of the earth if you’re taking a literal historical grammatical reading of the text. But after the intermediate state, and we can talk more about this later in the program after the intermediate state, there’s the second judgment which is outer darkness, not really sure where that is. Scripture doesn’t give us a whole lot of data about where it is, but how the Bible describes hell, and that’s the final state is typically what we mean or people mean when they talk about hell. Hell is a place of eternal conscious torment where people will experience complete and eternal and final separation from the Lord.

Jamie Mitchell:

A couple of things, Ryan. So there is a difference if I think I hear you saying this because of the variation of names, because we read in the Bible things like Hades and Hell, what about the lake of fire? What about like gona? Why are there different names and what do we need to know to have clarity?

Ryan Day:

So in the Bible, particularly in the Old Testament, there is a place that is called the place of the dead, and the word has a semantic range. That word is sheel and it’s used in a variety of context In the Old Testament when we move into the New Testament, that same concept is picked up and the Greek word is put in place, which is the word Hades. Hades and sheel are the intermediate state for the unbelievers and Hades and Sheel is the same place and it has two compartments according to scripture. Deuteronomy 32 22 says that there’s one place in she or Hades called the lowest part. And it seems that scripture, this is where we get a little complicated. It seems that scripture indicates that the lowest part of feel or haes, which is the part where believes go actually has two regions and that lower part has the lower part with two regions.

Those regions are called the abyss according to June 6th and Genesis six. And then second Peter, Peter uses the phrase to TAUs borrowing from Greek mythology to define another place. The abyss and Arius may be the same point. So there’s one place in she and Hades that’s for unbelievers and that has two compartments. But then before Christ died, Hades and Sheel also had the compartment that’s known as paradise or Abraham’s bosom, and that’s in Luke 16. But after Christ died, Abraham’s bosom no longer exists because Paul says in two Corinthians five, eight, he says that I prefer to be absent from the body, but to be at home with the Lord. So maybe let me back up and make it a little bit, put the cookies on the bottom shelf a little bit. When someone dies, if you’re a believer in Jesus Christ, if you’ve placed your faith in him, your body goes into the ground, ashes to ashes, dust to dust, and your soul is immediately present with the Lord. According to said Corinthians five, eight, if you’re an unbeliever, same thing occurs. Your soul is separated from your body, your body goes into the ground and your soul goes to Hades. And that is a place where we would say, you’re in hell. You’re separated from God. But that’s not a final judgment. Final judgment is what we call the eternal state. And at the end of time, and depending on your eschatological perspective, I believe that believers bodies will be resurrected at the rapture.

Other Protestants believe that people’s bodies or believers’ bodies will be resurrected at the end of the age, but at the end of the age, revelation 20 tells us unbeliever bodies will also be resurrected and they will then be cast eternally into the lake of fire. Jesus uses the word gona. Gona was a trust, stinking burning trash dump outside of the city of Jerusalem. And Jesus uses, that’s his favorite phrase to describe pe is gona. For example, in Luke 12, four through he says, I say to you, my friends, do not be afraid of those that kill the body. And after they have no more they can do, but I will warn you whom to fear fear. The one after he has killed has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him. And that word that’s translated into English in Luke 12 for hell is gona. And that word gona refers to final judgment, which is also what the lake of fire is as well. And there’s many other words that describe final judgment in the scriptures. Eternal fire, outer darkness, torment, eternal punishment. The second death, eternal destruction, phrases like that all refer to the second death.

Jamie Mitchell:

Different religions will have some element of eternity, a heaven and hell. How do different religions view hell and specifically weigh in a little bit on the idea of purgatory?

Ryan Day:

Yeah, that’s a good question. Yes, there’s several religions that believe in hell. For example, the Roman Catholic religion, Jews have a concept of hell. Muslims have a concept of hell. Buddhists have a concept of hell. Hindus have a concept of hell. Even Sikhs have a concept of hell. That’s because those are all counterfeit religions that are trying to work their way to God. So it’s not surprising that they have a form of hell, but they define it. Those religions define health fundamentally different than scripture defines health. Now moving to your question as it relates to purgatory, the Bible says that the soul that sins will die, scripture is very, very clear that all sin results in eternal judgment. Well, in the Roman Catholic system, they’ve actually gone against scripture and they’ve reclassified sin. And so they have two types of sin. They have venial sins, and they have mortal sins to commit a mortal sin, a deadly sin, you go immediately to hell.

You lose your justification status. It has to be regained. But if you commit a venial sin, a lesser sin, well then they had to figure out because their doctrine of sin was different than scripture. Well, if I don’t commit a mortal sin, well, what do you do with people that commit venial sins? And that’s where the idea of purgatory came into existence. It began with redefining sin. And when you don’t have a biblical view of sin, you’re not going to have a biblical view of hell. And the reason people redefine sin is because they don’t have a biblical view of God. When you understand the Bible’s primarily and fundamentally about God, and when we understand who God is, we then begin to understand what sin is. And when we begin to understand what sin is and how horrific it is, the doctrine of hell makes a whole lot of sense.

Jamie Mitchell:

And we even get into problems within the Roman doctrine of purgatory in that the belief that okay, they’re there and maybe we can pray them out of it. Maybe we can help them get out of this holding place. And it becomes, again, as you mentioned with most religions, again, a works righteousness or a meritorious religion that they can do enough to get themselves out of hell and into some type of paradise. We know that is just not true. Friends, we have just started to scratch the surface on understanding hell. We probably have mentioned things today that you have never considered before. You never heard some of these things, you never considered the different elements of hell. And so this is really important. When we come back, is hell forever or is it just a moment in time or just a little bit of suffering and then we can move on to something bigger and better? We’re trying to clear up the confusion about hell. So you join back here with Ryan Day and myself when we look at what’s Down with Hell. Well, welcome back. Ryan Day is my guest today. He serves as pastor of Revolve Bible Church Ryan, your sermons and other resources are on your website. Plus if people are ever visiting Southern California, they may want to visit your church. How can they find out about you and your ministry?

Ryan Day:

They can go to revolve bible church.org to see all of our content and what we’re doing down in San Juan Capistrano in California.

Jamie Mitchell:

Ryan, one of the issues that I am hearing people debate and the discussion that if God is a loving and merciful God, why would he send people to hell into eternal torment forever? And this is also known as the teaching of annihilation. Can you speak to those two theological issues?

Ryan Day:

Yeah. Annihilationism is sometimes called conditional immorality. Those who hold that position believe that hell is a place that people go to atone for their sins, but eventually hell destroys them or to use the language, it annihilates them. The reason we believe in eternal conscious torment is because that is the picture that scripture gives us as it relates to what hell is. People often hold to annihilationism because they can’t really reconcile it as being consistent with the justice of God, the people that would say that. Why would the Lord send to people to hell for eternal torment? I would encourage people that are thinking that way to study the character of God and the nature of sin. Often it’s because we’ve belittled what we think sin is. Sin is an absolutely egregious offense to God. God is our creator. He is the eternal father and he’s created humanity to be in relationship with him.

But in our rebellion, we decided to worship his creation rather than him. Sin is incredibly offensive to God. And I would say oftentimes when we think about the doctrine of sin, we only think of it in ethical terms, meaning I did this wrong or sins of omission or commission. I didn’t do what I was supposed to do, omission, I did what I wasn’t supposed to do. Commission. But the Bible also paints a picture of sin that goes beyond ethical. In fact, in John 17, Jesus talks about as he’s praying, he’s praying for those who will come to faith in him. And he talks about wanting us to experience the love, the in Trinitarian love between the Father and Son that existed before the world began. When we come to Christ, we’re in Christ. The Bible says in the New Testament that we’re in Christ and Christ is in us, and we experience the Trinitarian love of the Father.

And so when we reject Christ, we’re deeply offending God. When we reject a relationship with God through his son, it’s deeply offensive to God because we’re rejecting what God the Father loves most, and that is God’s son. He loves his son eternally. Jesus wasn’t functionally eternally godson. I don’t believe he functionally became a godson or submitted to the Father, rather in the incarnation. But in eternity past scripture is clear. He experienced the love of God the Father. So I think when we talk about this idea of hell being eternal, conscious torment and struggling with that, it’s because we’re not thinking rightly about sin. I think also we’re not thinking rightly about ourselves. The reason why hell is eternal is because we’re totally depraved. There is nothing good in us apart from God in the sense of there’s nothing that warrants us being forgiven or being able to stand in the presence of God.

That’s how sinful we are. And so hell has to be eternal because there in no point an eternity future can an unrepentant sinner make themselves good enough to stand in the presence of a holy God. The righteousness that we need to stand in the presence of God is imputed to us when we place our faith in Christ. So again, just as an overview, if you’re struggling with the idea of hell being eternal, I would encourage you to understand who God is, understand what scripture says as it relates to sin, but also understand what scripture says as it relates to who is an unbeliever. And if someone dies in an unbelieving state, there is an eternal consequence because there’s nothing good in that person that can warrant them being in the presence of God.

Jamie Mitchell:

And just as we will be fully aware and conscious in heaven enjoying the fruits and the rewards and the glory of having put our faith in Christ, that same awareness, that consciousness of our rejection of him and being dead in our sins will be in our eternal torment in hell. You mentioned something, Ryan, I want to follow up. You mentioned our proper view of Christ and a proper understanding of Christ. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a doctrinal statement of a church where somewhere in there they don’t mention that Jesus is the judge of the living and the dead. Now, it’s nice that it’s on paper and ink, but my guess is they’ve never really thought clearly about that there is a future judgment. We will have to stand before the Lord. Can you just weigh in on that for just a moment of what does that future judgment look like?

Ryan Day:

Yeah, that’s a great point. So there’s a phrase that’s repeated in the New Testament. It’s kind of a technical phrase. It’s the day of judgment. The day of judgment does not occur immediately upon the death of an unbeliever. When an unbeliever dies again, they go to Hades. At the end of the age, those unbelievers will be resurrected, rejoined to their physical bodies and they will go to the day of judgment or what John calls in Revelation, the great white throne of judgment. And Revelation chapter 20 beginning in verse 11, we’re actually told exactly what that judgment is going to look like. And John writes in revelation that he sits, he saw on a great white throne, white meaning purity, holiness throne, meaning he has the authority to judge. And then he says, in the one who sat upon it and from whose presence, earth in heaven fled away and there was no place found for them.

And the one who sits upon it is none other than Jesus Christ. Jesus says in John that the Father has given all judgment to me, our Lord Jesus said. And so at the end of the age, the Lord Jesus Christ, as he’s going to sit on his great white throne of judgment and he’s going to judge the great and the small Revelation 12 or 2012 says that John says, I saw the dead, the great and the small standing before the throne. The books were opened, another book was open, the Book of Life and the Book and the Dead, which were judged from the things which were written in the books according to their deeds. So there seems to be two books. There’s the Book of Life, and then perhaps in Daniel and a couple other places in scripture, there’s perhaps a book of deeds where the deeds, the sins of those unbelievers who are not written in the lamb’s book of life are maybe recorded.

The idea is that God who is omniscient, he knows everything and he knows every point of sin, whether it’s commission or omission or a thought. And at the end of the age, all unbelievers are going to be brought before his throne and the books will be open. And then it says in verse 13, the sea gave up their dead, which were in them and death and Hades gave up their dead, the sea and dead, probably dead is probably a reference to land. So it’s the idea that people that have died anywhere and they’re unbelievers, whether it’s in the sea or on the land, they’re going to be reunited with their soul. That’s them in Hades. Hades will give up, it’s dead, and then they will be judged according to their deeds, meaning for those of us that are in Christ, sinful deeds are washed away because of the blood of Christ.

Our sin is removed as far as the east is from the West. But for unbelievers, their deeds remain, their sinful deeds remain and they will be judged according to those deeds. And then Jesus will take a death in Hades and he will throw them into the lake of fire. And then John adds, this is the second death, the lake of fire. There’s an old saying that says, you can be born twice and die once, or you can be born once and die twice. And the idea is that we come into this world of sinners, that’s our first birth. But if you’re born again, you come to life in Jesus Christ, you will experience physical death. But at the end, the Lord will resurrect your physical body and you will live physically in heaven with the Lord forever. But if you’re an unbeliever, you’re going to be born once a physical birth, but then you’re going to die twice.

You’re going to have a physical death. You’re going to die and go to Hades, but then you’re going to stay in Hades until the Lord Jesus Christ makes the sea and the dead and Hades give up the dead and you’re going to be physically resurrected. And then at that point, the unbeliever is thrown into the lake of fire, which is the second death. Well, what’s second death? Well, second Death is a place you don’t come back from. Well, you can’t come back from Hades either if you die and go there. Scripture’s clear on that. But the idea of second death is this is it. This is conscious eternal torment. And if anyone’s name is not written in the lamb’s book of life, they’re going to be thrown by the Lord Jesus Christ there because they have rebelled against God, the holy God and rightfully deserve his wrath.

Jamie Mitchell:

Friends, what you don’t know could kill you, but also knowing the wrong things can be fatal. When we wrap up this program today, I want to discuss with Ryan how to communicate about hell in the church, but also to your friends. Listen, life is short, but eternity is forever. Join us back here for our final segment of Stand In the Gap Today. Thank you for trusting us with an hour of your day. Our prayer is that we provide you here at Stand in the Gap today with teaching and interviews and challenges that will encourage and enlighten you. And today we’ve been enlightened about hell with Pastor Ryan Day Ryan. Hell can be an intimidating subject to speak about and certainly can make people feel condemned or even unsure about their eternity. Yet as we’ve discussed, it’s essential. I want you to weigh in on this first, as a pastor, how would you encourage fellow shepherds to talk about hell both directly and indirectly, and should they fear talking about this subject?

Ryan Day:

That’s a great question, Jamie. My encouragement to my fellow shepherds would be to talk about hell and see hell or to preach rather herald it, lift it high, proclaim it because it is a great aid in presenting the gospel to people. The doctrine of hell when rightly preached according to scripture, it gives us a softball as pastors to talk about the goodness of Christ and what he has done to save us, to step down out of heaven and descend to the cross and die upon the cross of substitutionary death so that all who believe in him will not perish but have everlasting life and then resurrecting and forever conquering the grave and then ascending to the right hand of the Father and forever living to intercede for us as our great high priest according to the order of melek, so that we can now boldly approach the throne of grace.

So yeah, I would just say fellow brothers, I would encourage you to preach it, proclaim it, but don’t stop with the doctrine of hell offer the free gift of salvation to those who hear you by using the doctrine of hell to make a beeline to the cross and to the work of Christ. And I would absolutely encourage my fellow pastors to not fear talking about hell. I think that we should talk about hell with reverence. I think we should talk about hell with seriousness. I think there’s a lack of dignity in some pulpits today. I think there’s a lack of seriousness in some pulpits today.

So I think we should definitely talk about it in a serious way, but not fear it because it’s divine revelation. God wanted us to know about the doctrine of hell. And one of the things we didn’t talk about is nobody talked more about hell than Jesus prior to the coming of Christ. The doctrine of hell, particularly Sheel was relatively obscured in the Old Testament, but when Christ came, he broke the light of day onto this doctrine because Christ who reveals the Father has revealed perfectly to us what hell is. It’s divine revelation. And we as preachers are called to preach the word. We’re called to lift up the gospel. We’re called to preach the full counsel of God. And your people aren’t going to understand the gospel if they don’t understand, as you said earlier, Jamie, if they don’t understand the bad part of reality, which is if we don’t place our faith in Christ because we’re sinners, we’re going to spend an eternity in hell.

Jamie Mitchell:

Ryan, I always know preachers who don’t talk about hell or heaven often is that when they then get to something like a funeral, they’re handcuffed. I’ve always been a believer, and I’ve told pastors this, if the first time your people here about heaven or hell is a funeral, you’re neglecting your duty, your dereliction of duty. You need to do it beforehand. And I would say this because I spent a lot of time talking with pastors that we’re in a time right now in the church where subjects like heaven and hell have not been discussed, and you’re doing a great service to your people, and it would be almost like a layup for you to say, Hey, I’m do a couple of week series on the issue of eternity because nobody’s talking about it. And again, clarity is not our enemy as pastors. We have a really great opportunity. Last question, Ryan. For the person in the pew, someone comes to them and says something like this, I hear you’re a Christian, you don’t really believe there’s a hell. What’s a way that they can talk about the reality of hell and did not do it in a guilt-ridden way or in a fearful way? How would you have equipped your people to do the work of sharing the reality of hell?

Ryan Day:

That’s a great question. First I would say if somebody came up to you and said, Hey, if you’re a Christian, do you actually believe there’s a hell? I would say, that’s a softball question for the gospel. You could knock that one out of the park with an unbeliever. I wouldn’t get necessarily caught up into the intricacies of the intermediate state or the eternal state or all the different Hebrew or Greek words that are used and translated into the English word as hell. I would just say to those people, that’s an opportunity to talk to them about the character nature of God and the work of Christ. And to say, yes, I absolutely believe in hell. And the reason I believe in hell is because I believe that God is holy and mankind is sinful, but God loved the world that he sent his son to give his son to die for the sins of those who would believe in him.

And so I would for sure encourage people, yeah, talk about Hell, invite them to your church when your church is doing a series on hell that will help them understand the gospel, provided your pastor is preaching it biblically. If he is, then he’s going to also be giving a solution to hell, which is the gospel. So the other thing too, I would say is I think we forget as Christians that Jesus promised us that in this life we will have trouble, we will be persecuted. They killed our master. Certainly they’re going to go after us. And I think that we need to remember that we’re dealing with eternal truths that Satan hates, that the world system that we live in hates and when we are shining the light of the glory of God into this dark world, yeah, we are going to be persecuted. But I would say, brothers, take courage, sisters, take courage. Proclaim the truth. God will use you to save some.

Jamie Mitchell:

Ryan, Dave, thank you for standing on the authority of scripture. Thank you for not vacillating, but to being clear and speaking with your heart. Beloved, listen, here is the simplest thing to understand about this subject of heaven and hell. Heaven is where God is, where God dwells, where God desires to be with us in fellowship forever. Hell means we are separated from God, from his glory, from his grace, from his peace. So which do you want? Do you want to live separated from God in torment for all the eternity, or do you want to be in his presence and enjoy his company, his fellowship forever? Boy, that’s a no brainer. However, what’s standing between heaven and hell is a cross. You need to put your faith in Christ and come across that bridge of redemption that God provided for us in Jesus Christ. I’ve said it before, eternity is forever, and our pathway to heaven is through the person of Jesus Christ. Thank you so much to Corey Marsh yesterday. Ryan Day today. Thank you for listening. May this have been a blessing to you and as always, until tomorrow, live and leave with courage. This is Jamie Mitchell with the American Pastors Network and stand in the gap today. God bless.