Waking Up from Being Woke

May 13, 2024

Host: Hon Sam Rohrer

Co-host: Dr. Marlene McMillan

Note: This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program originally aired on 5/13/24. To listen to the podcast, click HERE.

Disclaimer:         While reasonable efforts have been made to provide an accurate transcription, the following is a representation of a mechanical transcription and as such, may not be a word for word transcript. Please listen to the audio version for any questions concerning this dialogue.

Sam Rohrer:       Hello and welcome to this Monday edition of Stand In the Gap Today. And it’s a new week of programs here all designed to address leading issues of the day, but always from a biblical worldview perspective. Now before we get into the theme of the day, I trust that all of you moms out there had a blessed Mother’s Day yesterday and that all of you men where possible let them know how special they are now for our family, for the Roar family, yesterday all 30 of us gathered for a special lunch following church. Yeah, men made the meal the entire meal. As we’ve done another mother’s days, we cleaned up the dishes too and truly let the ladies of our lives, my wife Ruthanne and the other five mothers in our family allowed them to sit and be waited on for a change. They did enjoy it, as you can imagine, and frankly, so did the guys.

Sam Rohrer:       As a matter of fact, it went so well that the ladies hinted that they could really get used to this on days other than Mother’s Day. So we’ve all said once Father’s Day comes, then we can sit down and enjoy. That again comes and goes. We’ll consider other days as well. Anyway, that’s just a bit of personal transparency. Has nothing really to do with today’s program emphasis. In actuality though it may indirectly impact it, we’ll see. But I just wanted to give you a glimpse into our family’s life and what we did yesterday. But today I’m so glad to have back with me Dr. Marlene McMillan. She is in fact a grandmother herself known as the Lady of Liberty and forgiveness, also the author of Mountains of Deceit, how the Dialectic Process has infected the culture as well as many other books. Now, on March 18th of this year, Marlene was with me where our program focus was deciphering demonic deception and in that we considered the theme of the dialectic and how it’s been used to systematically subvert truth in our culture.

Sam Rohrer:       Then on April the first, she joined me again as we went a little deeper into this subversion of truth and we focused on, and our theme was liberty versus freedom, understanding the essential distinctions. And I’d encourage you to go back and listen to both of those programs as they do lead into this program theme today. Now, one of the remarkable developments in our postmodern culture I think is how what is up is now down and what is true is false and what is false is true and how demonic deception has literally upended our historic cultural norms seemingly causing people to literally reject nearly all of the values certainly that our culture once held and individually many people have held, just completely flipped them. And this upending result seems to have been captured in the concept of this term that we increasingly hear called wokeness wokeness with those who embrace it as being woke. Okay, you’ve all heard that, right? But are those once asleep awake now as in woke, or is the result actually been to put to sleep those who were once alert but they’re now drowsy and compliant and literally self-inflicting of the greatest harms imaginable, I think damaging even the very heart and soul of America. So it’s the tide I’ve chosen today to go with this is waking up from being woke. And with that, Marlene, thank you for being back with me today.

Darlene McMillan:           Well, thank you for having me. I look forward to this. Your audience is just wonderful and blessings to all of you.

Sam Rohrer:       And with that ladies and gentlemen, let’s get right into this because I want to Wikipedia first, I think it’s the establishment dictionary of our times, but it says this about wokeness, quote, the contemporary meaning of woke arose in the United States during the 1960s with the idea of being well-informed and aware of what was going on in society. This is still their definition, they say in the 21st century woke was popularized by association with the Black Lives Matter movement. So Marlene, with that brief description in place, I’d like to hear your definition of woke and wokeness as you consider it. I’m going to say through the filter of truth.

Darlene McMillan:           So I think that our listeners will really appreciate seeing it as an imitation or a foe, FAUX as the imitation of the real and what is the real? Well, we talk about a great awakening, the awakening, the quickening from within that happens through the word of God. When the word of God goes from being mere words on a page to being life and health and truth within inside a person. So the politically correct woke movement is to redefine and basically remake culture or society into the viewpoint, into their world viewpoint, into their image instead of the image of God because God creates and Satan imitates. So woke is an imitation of the life that we could have if we follow the immutable loss of the universe as found in the word of God.

Sam Rohrer:       Alright, I think that’s excellent. Now in the balance here, about a minute and a half in this segment, in this definition like Wikipedia and so forth, they link it to black Lives Matter and often people think of racial equality or something falling into that category. But it seems that there’s a wide range of culturally progressive thought that now falls under this banner, so to speak, of wokeness, this wokeness umbrella, this movement at that. Can you list the top issues or areas that have now been thrown under this umbrella of wokeness?

Darlene McMillan:           Well, part of why tyrants are totalitarian, that means that they want to control every area of society. So what we have going on in this whole wokeness thing is really, it’s a revolution of the culture. So the issue is never the issue. It’s always about the revolution and what is the revolution, but to dethrone Yahweh on the hearts and minds of the people and to put on the throne the self or the tyrant or anything, it’s a very anti-God kind of idea. And in this process now you’re seeing it out on the college campuses, you’re seeing it in the trans movement, you’re seeing it in the churches, the schools. We can go into more of those details, but the key point that I want people to realize is whatever the issue is, that’s nearly fodder. That’s just being used to change the culture into a Marxist model that opens the door for tyranny.

Sam Rohrer:       Alright, and with that ladies and gentlemen, I’m just not going to comment on that further. We’re going to come back and revisit those as we walk through the program today. The theme is this Waking up from Being woke, my special guest, Dr. Marlene McMillan, and when we come back we’re going to move from wokeness to definition and what we just talked about into identifying the cause. If you’re just joining us today, my special guest is Dr. Marlene McMillan. She has a website y liberty matters.com and she’s been with me several times before and we are today addressing this theme of entitled, waking Up from Being Woke. Alright, now without dispute, this is my sense. The current woke movement has found root. If I compare it to something I live in the woods, there’s a lot of poison ivy growing on trees. I compare it to some poisonous or invasive species of vine that spreads above the ground and below the ground like poison ivy or perhaps even more visually kudzu.

Sam Rohrer:       If you’ve been down south, you’ve seen how kudzu travels, climbs, it tears down literally the largest of trees, Smothers all life, all other species in the process. It looks from afar, very healthy, very green, very lush, but it’s very bad. But in reality it’s destructive in every regard. And if left unresponded to, if you see it down there, it literally will take over entire mountain sites and it will crawl across the ground. It will turn cultivated and profitable farming ground into wasteland. And when applied, taken again from that type of tangible and you take that kind of thing and you apply to ideas and values like the woke movement, in my opinion, it turns minds and hearts and aspirations also into wasted voids. Marlene, I just trying to think of some way to describe the seriousness of what we’re talking about with this woke movement and what’s behind it. So let’s do this. And the last programs we’ve gone into detail on the dialectic process, the subverting of truth, we’re talking about political correctness, you’ve already mentioned that. Here’s what I’d like you to do if you could. Would you establish now and connect where appropriate the current woke mentality with political correctness and the dialectic?

Darlene McMillan:           Okay, so basically what we have is wokeness is the new birth to a new age of global tyranny. This has been long in the planning and the social engineers who have planned this knew what they were doing. And we are naive when we don’t pay attention. We also have an understanding that internal bondage leads to external bondage and that external bondage is very evident now. It has gained root like the plants you’re talking about, and it’s strangling the life out of the culture. But it’s not over yet. And I want to give hope, we’ll talk more about that in the future, but I want to give hope that what we’re seeing now is not inevitable. Now the people who claim to be woke come and elevate themselves. They take a stance of moral superiority while what they really offer is a bankrupt, inferior moral code that only has misery and pain to offer. So we are on the brink now of people waking up and I mean real awakening. And that is a great fear because of the tyrants, because tyrants need people who are easily manipulated, who do not think for themselves and God forbid, have an objective standard of right and wrong by which they judge how people should behave, by which all people are judged. And that includes the kings and those who have elevated themselves above the rest of us.

Sam Rohrer:       Alright, you have, lemme summarize just a little bit and ask you to go back a bit more. You’ve connected the longstanding approach you saying has been well underway for a long time. A move of tyrants toward global planning, external bondage leading to internal bondage, woke people, those who pride themselves in wearing that woke label claim moral superiority, but in reality offer immorality, let’s put it that way, not superiority. Alright, so I’m just summarize a little bit of that, pull back into again the definition of dialectic and how that has been moving to subvert the truth because some people listening today may not have heard that or just need a refreshening of that definition of the dialectic as a strategy.

Darlene McMillan:           Good. So the dialectic process is actually a planned method of culture change that uses words to redefine the culture. So all you basically have to do is redefine the language and through the use of the language, through the redefinition, you can change a whole culture. So for example, in the area of religion, and I’m using religion as a worldview here and I’m using it more in a general sense, but there was historically in the United States, we had a very high regard for the Bible. So that means you have clear definitions and clear standards of right and wrong things are or they are not. It is or it isn’t. Then we move to a low regard for the Bible. I mean the Bible’s still important but not as much. And that loosened those definitions and kind of put everything into where they would expand and contract.

Darlene McMillan:           And then we went to a place where the Bible was important, yes, in some areas, but other areas of life, it didn’t apply to everything. It only applied to some things. Then we went to, people didn’t even care, they could live their life. They were told in school basically they could live their life without knowing anything from the Bible. Now we have people that are biblically illiterate even on the literature side of it. And that opened the door to a different gospel and that different gospel opened the door to be able to educate the general population toward tyranny because the tyranny had to start in the churches. Now that’s quite a, then we can repeat and see that pattern over and over and over again because then the same pattern repeats in education from moving education from the parents to local control to state control, to where basically the revolutionaries, the bill heirs of the world know what they’re doing and they’ve come back to the classrooms to educate for revolution. And now we’re seeing that on our college campuses everywhere.

Sam Rohrer:       Okay, and that’s great because ladies and gentlemen stay with us because we come back in just a little bit. We’re going to go into some of these specific areas, truth, the Bible and God, we’re going to talk about human sexuality as a area, the trans movement, she mentioned that. But it’s more than just that we’re going to pick up some of these other education, knowledge, morality, general. We’re going to have to look at those four in the next segment when we come back. Now a little bit time left here, Marlene. And from this regard, I guess it would be the question, historical perspective. You said it’s been going on for some time. Alright, actually quantify that a little bit. How long has this move? And if you go back into the last century, which actually we have to pick up some key events along the way, markers that marked movement towards this change.

Darlene McMillan:           So I’d even go back to 1805 when the Unitarians took over Harvard. Now that’s very early, but then 1830s you have the istic movement where the Christians, there was a move to pull out of culture. You have the disruption of the civil War, you have the industrial revolution. And then when Woodrow Wilson became president, he had been president of Princeton and he had already understood how to change the sons. I have these fabulous quotes in my webinars from Woodrow Wilson where he basically says we have to make the sons as different from their fathers as we can. So they taught the sons good table manners and all kinds of things that the parents cared about, but they changed the internal worldview of the sons and the parents paid the bill.

Sam Rohrer:       Interesting. Okay, so take it from there, bring it up. You had

Darlene McMillan:           Disruption of World War I and we had many of our men die. The world changed greatly. Then you had the Great Depression, which brought again disruption of families, those multi-generational families that had lived together. Some of them just had to leave to make a living. You also had a new wave of immigration, abject poverty, and that poverty opened the door for people crying for more government. And then it wasn’t very long too, you had World War II and the world really changed in World War II because of transportation and industry and all kinds of things. And then the men came home and they really just wanted to have babies and their wives wanted to have babies and be together as a family. But there was still so much disruption and the church was being basically remade during that time. The theological people that knew how to bring new social order, Russian, bush and all of those people from early in the 19 hundreds were there.

Sam Rohrer:       Okay, alright, we we’re going to have to stop just because of time right now we’ll pick up on that a little bit more. Ladies and gentlemen, stay with us being the point is that where we are is the result of a lot of changes along the time and a lot of pieces were somewhat modified, some change because we just allowed it to happen. A lot of pieces when we come back, we’re going to look at some of these big issues and how to rebut them. Well, I’m back with Dr. Marlene McMillan here today. My special guest again, this is if you were to link the last two programs March 18th and April 1st with this one here today on May 13th, you will have almost like building blocks in the understanding of well the dialectic process, political correctness, and basically how that’s being done and the strategy behind it moving us from our historic position of liberty here in America to that which our founders tried to get away from and that was tyranny.

Sam Rohrer:       But we see that happening and we wonder how in the world do we get here? Well is by accident. No it’s not. It really is not. So we’re trying to move through that today. Our focus is waking up from being woke. If there is one driving philosophy, put it that way, or a phenomenon, let’s put it that way, that seems to have completely overrun our entire culture from government to academia and everything in between. It’s this thing called woke and just because of the relevancy of it wanted to delve into that today. So that’s what we’re trying to do. Waking up from being woke. Now knowing the definition, the history and the cause of this concept of wokeness, which we did in the first segment and the last one, you have to do that in order to identify the problem and the depth of the problem created and then considering the cause.

Sam Rohrer:       So we’ve tried to do that a little bit, but if that’s not done, you can’t move to a solution. And the natural progression is the problem cause solution. However, if it’s our goal, and I think you’re listening to me, it is your goal, it’s my goal certainly, and I know it’s Dr. McMillan’s goal, that in all cases, those of us who know the truth are not just to sit by on the side of the road and watch the kudzu as I explained, climbing the trees and tearing everything down. But we are to resist the evil, pursue the truth, and to counter when you move this into the realm of thought and values to counter this demonic deception that’s currently assaulting not just our culture, but the very hearts and minds of adults and certainly our children. So Marlon, let’s go back now and as we move into this solution part, I’m referring to a little bit about rebutting the woke.

Sam Rohrer:       Here’s my question, let’s take those things we identified in the first segment and I’ll ask you to give a premise of what the woke movement is saying, what their premise is, and then give a short best rebuttal from standpoint of what truth is. So let’s start here. We’ve talked about the last segment and in the first segment, let’s start right here. You talked about first attacking God and you referred to the Bible was the highest of standards, but now it’s hardly on the page. Alright, what does the woke movement say? Let’s start with God and truth specifically.

Darlene McMillan:           Well, they’re trying to install themselves as God and basically tyranny part of, excuse me, countering the whole woke movement deals with understanding the terms and the definitions and tyranny. One of the best definitions of tyranny is ruling without the fear of God. So when they try to install themselves as God, they’ve in essence created a new religion because people like religion and want some kind of a religion. So then they can make the state the religion and that’s where the Marxism and what would technically be communism comes into play and the church is enabling that. I’m sorry to say.

Sam Rohrer:       Alright, I’m going to mark this down, we’re going to come back, we’ll get ’em on the table and I’ll come back. So God and truth, you start at the top, fixed God, truth was highly established. Now, not even referenced, you’re saying tyranny is really ruling without the fear of God. Boy do we ever see that? And you suggested, and not just implied, but we do see it as well that even the church who should be the main opposition has actually been complicit. Okay, well let that on the table. Let’s come back another one. You mentioned the trans movement as an example. Can I throw that broader into the more of the whole concept of human sexuality, established that creation and throw into that human sexuality, male, female and marriage and kind of put that together. What does the woke movement say and compare that to what is a matter of truth.

Darlene McMillan:           So if we are not able to be transformed in Christ, then the transgender movement can walk right into that vacuum that we have left and basically say that if you are unhappy with who you are, then they have a solution. The problem is it makes people more miserable because it’s based on a lie. So the truth of there are only two genders, male and female created he them that brings peace and clarity. Yes, there’s people that have issues with that, but look at how smoothly, basically people’s lives went. Yes, life was still difficult. I’m not saying it was easy, but I’m saying when you get away from pure definitions and you go into all this confused language, confused living is the result of confused language. So we have to go back to pure definitions.

Sam Rohrer:       I like that. I’m just writing down some notes. If not able to be transformed by the spirit of God, ladies and gentlemen, in salvation through truth, then you actually can be transformed into literally anything because there’s no more anchor. It’s whatever you want to do. And as you said, Marlene, a confused language when you redefine the terms, confused language leads to confused living. And boy do we see that. Alright, so let’s go to the other one. It’s out there. Could say it’s a technique, but the scripture speaks a great deal about knowledge. Proverbs tells us that if we pursue the truth, we will find it. It talks a lot about knowledge, it talks a lot about truth. And then moving that into wisdom, okay, you talked about it, you’d throw God distort truth. Alright? The whole process falls apart. But education as a provider of knowledge, okay, that’s a big one. So let’s talk about knowledge and education.

Darlene McMillan:           Well then you even get into where’s the source of knowledge which the scriptures say is God himself. And if you are going to give that up or be soft on the word, then you’re going to sit at feet of the ungodly. And so what we have going on, even the Christian teachers who are well-meaning many of them were trained in the methods of Benjamin Bloom and that is an anti-God method. Now, before all the teachers get mad at me, I love you. I was trained as a teacher. I would never have understood this had I not been exposed to this myself. And then looked into what are we really being taught? Education has both the content, that curriculum is both content and method. So Christian schools and Christian curriculum have paid pretty good attention to the content, but they’ve done a terrible job on the method. So we have allowed the Marxist method of pitting ideas against each other in this dialectic process to come in and basically sweep truth out of the way and put in a way of making decisions and a way of discerning truth from error that only leads to error E-R-R-O-R. That only leads to chaos, confusion and a remaking of our minds into people that are easily manipulated into tyranny.

Sam Rohrer:       Alright, there’s a lot of information ladies and jump. You need to go back and listen to this again. Lemme go back here, Marlene, in the short little bit that’s left at the very beginning I talked about God truth. And you put into that the idea that when you’d lose the fear of God, and I agree with you, you walk into the arms of tyranny, which is just the opposite. And you said the church has been complicit. The church from God’s perspective is the one who was supposed to uphold the truth and to be the resistor. How has the church generally participated in this?

Darlene McMillan:           Well, for one thing, through accepting the government schools or even thinking that they can go into the government schools and use those as a means of evangelism. And I’d love to say that it could work, but now we have enough history to show that overall it’s the Christian students that have been evangelized into the world instead of the other way around. I’m not saying that good hasn’t happened, but part of what Satan does is he uses mixture. So there’s, oh yeah, there’s good there, but it’s the tree of the knowledge of good and evil instead of us going purely to eat from the tree of life. So I’m not saying it’s intentional, but I’m saying by even the church abandoning the areas of economics, part of what I do in my webinars is I hardcore law, government, history, economics and education. And these are subjects that people are hungry to know. They used to be taught from the pulpit. The pulpit taught what the Bible said about anything you wanted to know. And so people thought of the Bible as being applicable and wonderful and important for their lives. But as we agreed to let other areas, other disciplines speak to those, we lost the moral authority through the church.

Sam Rohrer:       Alright, and with that, that’s a great statement ladies and gentlemen. It’s true the Bible is true. Do we believe it? If it is, it’s true in all matters of life and living, do we live it? We’ve walked away from that. And when we’ve walked away, these other things happen. We come back, we’re going to complete this about waking the woke. Well, as we go into the final segment now, the last segment we focused a little bit of rebutting, the woke as they call it, taking these big areas, God and truth, the Bible fixed truth, that entity that is there and how the woke movement in those that have preceded the Marxist, the God rejecter, it’s that group who say we want no God to rule over us that are behind all of this using very strategic elements. The dialectic is a part of that. You redefine the terms.

Sam Rohrer:       All the things we’re talking about, if I’m summing things up that’s right here is you go after that. Then when that is dislodged, then you can redefine marriage. You can redefine what God established in the garden of Eden, male and female and make it to whatever you want it to be, which is exactly what we see. And then you can take the education process knowledge no longer in the fear of God. You have knowledge as created from mankind’s own mind, which man now becomes God. And now anything goes. And of course this is what we’re seeing. So that’s a bit of a summation from my perspective as we’ve had a discussion here today on this whole theme of waking up from being woke. So when we conclude as we walk into this, there’s another element here when presented with error, which is what Marlene just talked about, error tempted by the world.

Sam Rohrer:       That’s an error, a source of error. The flesh is and so is the devil, the world, the flesh and the devil. That’s what scripture tells us. When confronted by error from any one of those, our response must be timely and intentional that we have to have a response. One confronted by sin. If the stakes were not so high, frankly wouldn’t make much difference. But the stakes are high with target being what? When you think about it, what is the target of deception? Ultimately it’s the control of mankind here, but ultimately it’s far go beyond that. It’s the very souls of men that for which God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son to die for us so that we can be transformed. That’s what it’s about. It’s the souls of men, our spiritual destiny and reward, if we’re a believer is what’s at stake.

Sam Rohrer:       And that’s important. We really face a battle of celestial proportions led by we know this spiritual conflict in the heavenlies. It’s been going on since creation where truth, who is God and Jesus who is the way, the life and the embodiment of truth and the word of God, which is the written truth, all of that has been under attack. So in light of that, the solution is in part with knowing the truth. That’s part of our rebuttal. How to handle the truth. That’s what we’re talking about today. And in this case, rebutting the woke. But it requires, I think, more in addition to knowing the truth, it’s actually using the truth that includes well such things as courage. So Marlene, we’ve covered a lot of ground and you spend days and you’ve written books on what we’re trying to summarize a little bit here today. But in this final segment, bring together this matter of truth, the redefining of truth, and then the handling or the presenting of truth. And this courage factor, this courage factor in a way that the average person listening here today, I think can confidently walk away with a plan for responding to this matter of wokeness because we’re seeing it and it’s in impacting us on literally every side.

Darlene McMillan:           So I want people to be encouraged that this awakening that’s going on means that folks are waking up and realizing they’ve been lied to, and one you’ve been lied to by somebody, you don’t trust them anymore. And we can seize this moment to be able to bring back a message of truth and peace and joy and love. Because God wrote on the flay tablet of the heart, he wrote, God wrote his law on the flay tablet of the heart. And part of that is an understanding that there are immutable laws of the universe. There are rules, there’s a rule book, and it’s not written to make you miserable. It’s made and written to give you direction so that you can have peace and joy and blessing on earth and a life for eternity. So how do we come back and deal with this? Well, we do have to make a commitment our own hearts.

Darlene McMillan:           We have to have the courage in our own heart to tell ourselves the truth and then to refuse to speak politically correct. Now that could cost you. I’m not saying that it’s free because we’ve gone so far, but the world is looking for people who have courage to tell the truth. They’re looking for someone who loves them enough to tell the truth. So pay attention to definitions, pay attention to what’s going on. Get my mountains of deceit book and read the first 19 pages at least that explains what this dialectic is and see how it’s a rinse and repeat program that’s just done over and over and over again, moving the culture just a line at a time, a little bit more into a place you could never believe you would go. And so it’s time to take responsibility for what we think and what we believe and to decide to preserve our conscience.

Darlene McMillan:           And so a lot of political correctness is you can please others, they’ll be happy with you that you spoke the way they wanted, but you’ll hate yourself and you’ll know that you were not pleasing to the Lord. So make a decision within yourself to speak the truth. And I mean in kindness, I mean in love. I don’t mean be obnoxious and rude, but at the same time the choices you make now affect your family for generations and for eternity. Go read Jeremiah 29 where it says basically to build houses and live in them, plant gardens and eat the fruit thereof, marry and have babies, and raise your children to marry and have babies. And that’s the cycle. That’s the way that we overcome all of this chaos, not by going out and fighting the chaos and empowering it because you get more of what you talk about and you become what you think about.

Darlene McMillan:           So it’s time to quit talking about the chaos and bring order, speak the order. And in my webinars and study materials, I give you a grid work of order. I help get the brain that has been basically shattered or shaken by the world and I bring it back to a plumb line of truths. And in that process, the joy that will come within you is just absolutely amazing. So you find us at Y, that’s WHY liberty matters.com y liberty matters.com, and you put in your first name and email address to even find out how we do our webinars. You do have to sign up for them, but people will find that it’s a breath of fresh air in the midst of chaos. And I teach these things in an easy to understand way. But folks, we’ve been conditioned to the dialectic for years. So it does take some time to come to a point to understand how this process works. And then it’s reverse

Sam Rohrer:       It. It absolutely does. Marlene, thank you so much. Ladies and gentlemen. Remember as we say, oftentimes in the Old Testament, in the book of Deuteronomy, God said to the children of Israel, I present before you this day, two paths life, which leads to blessing and death and judgment. He said, I want you to choose life. Well, what’s all that about? Life is the truth. Choose the truth and then speak the truth and love. And I like that what Marlene just said. And it’s really true. We have to love people. We have to love God and love people enough to choose the truth and live the truth and speak the truth. And when that happens, then we’re fully occupying and we do that until he comes. That’s what we need to do. Have courage to do it, have confidence. Confidence gives that courage and we can have it. Thanks for being with us today, the Lord willing. We’ll see you back here tomorrow.