Reports from Afar

Reports from Afar

Oct. 25, 2024

Host: Hon. Sam Rohrer

Guest(s): Isaac Crockett, Shaheryar Gill, Gary Dull

Note: This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program aired on 10/25/24. To listen to the podcast, click HERE.

Disclaimer: While reasonable efforts have been made to provide an accurate transcription, the following is a representation of a mechanical transcription and as such, may not be a word for word transcript. Please listen to the audio version for any questions concerning the following dialogue.

Sam Rohrer:       Well, hello and welcome to this very, very Special Friday program, which will feature reports from overseas on two very recent visits by Stand in the Gap today, co-hosts and tremendous impact by our guest, Dr. Isaac Crockett is one we’re going to talk to first. He’s been in the nation of Pakistan, viewed as one of the most persecuting of Christians of any nation in the world. We’re going to go there first in just a moment, I’ll be talking to him live from Pakistan. So if there’s any kind of a break or a glitch in what you are hearing, that is the reason I just want you to know that up front and a friend of his that’s been on this program. A friend of ours, personal friend of Isaac, Shaheryar Gill, a lead counsel with the wonderful legal Defense Organization, American Center for Law and Justice, and you’ll hear from them and understand why in just a moment.

Sam Rohrer:       Then beginning in segment three, halfway through the program, Dr. Gary Dull will join me as he and I will give an update on our recent trip to Kenya where we were blessed with being able to preach and teach to nearly a thousand to pastors and to interface and encourage several hundred chaplains. And I was able to speak on the matter of integrity and government to a gathering over a hundred government officials. Now, this is going to be a program of encouragement. I know it will, and I want you to stay with us for the entire program. We’re going to share news that you’ll not hear anywhere else, not important to most people, but to God’s people. Very important. We also want to provide information to help you more intelligently pray, and if you so desire to participate and invest financially to help the furtherance of the teaching of God’s word in places and to people who not only want to know the truth, but are frankly demonstrating that they are willing to literally die for the truth, their faith. The title I’ve chosen for today’s program is Reports from Afar, and with that, Isaac directly from Pakistan. Good to have you on board here today.

Isaac Crockett:   Hey, good evening, Sam. It’s kind of late evening here. Thanks for having us.

Sam Rohrer:       Yeah, you’re about nine hours ahead of us here on the East Coast, so people are wondering what you say. Evening it is Evening. It’s morning here. Isaac, do this if you don’t mind. You’ve been providing some pictures and comments on what you’re doing there, but just briefly, can you share why you are there in Pakistan and what you hoped to achieve by this visit?

Isaac Crockett:   So about 20 years ago when I was in seminary working on my first degree, one of my fellow classmates was an older student who had come to seminary after he was married and had children. He was from Pakistan. He and his wife were both from Pakistan and he and I developed a friendship and sometimes he and his wife and Jill and I prayed for Pakistan. And all of that time it’s been on my mind. And so here when we connected through our friends at A CLJ with Shaheryar Gill and he has such a high quality of what he’s doing and so persuasive of praying for and being aware of what’s really happening in Pakistan, it was exciting to me to pray and to try to find out what I could do. And he said he can come along with me. I think this was early summer, late spring, something, I’m going to go in October. Jill and I were like, well, that’s a group we’ve prayed for. So my hope was to go in to learn and it’s been so much more, I’ve learned so much every day with making just such a busy schedule, but visiting so many of their clients and just amazing, amazing testimonies that have happened. So that was it. Coming Sherry RI trusted him. I wanted to see for myself and learn and I’ve also been encouraged by them and been able to encourage so many believers, especially those who are persecuted and others across the nation of Pakistan.

Sam Rohrer:       And Isaac, I know from talking with you and hearing you’ve learned a lot, just like I was in Kenya, I walked away with some really spiritually encouraging things. Can you just identify one most significant spiritual highlight so far on this trip?

Isaac Crockett:   Oh, that’s hard. There’s so many. I think just showing a force of unity, of love, loving the brothers Jesus. By this you alman know that you are might decide if you have love one for another. So when we go to these homes where a family member has been violated in the worst kinds of ways and sometimes killed or falsely imprisoned, and again, this is coming not from the majority of people here and it’s not usually coming from the government, but there are a few bullies that are taking advantage of the positions that Christians hold as a minority. And when those bullies feel like if you don’t stand up to a bully, they keep taking more. And what a ACLJ does is they come with the United Force today, we were somewhere that we’ll maybe talk about later, but somewhere where 5,000 people were mobbing, one four man, a Christian man, and we showed up with lawyers and brothers in Christ and made it clear we are here, we are protecting these people, we are seeking justice and we’re praying. We gladly pray. Just trying to be the light and showing that unity by showing love for our brothers even in faraway places like villages and Pakistan.

Sam Rohrer:       That’s fantastic. Isaac and Shaheryar, you’re listening right now. Let’s bring you in at this point as well. You are there. You have a team. You’ve been doing a great deal on the ground to bring justice to those primarily Christians who have been persecuted and have seen a lot of great things happen. I want you to share some of the next segment, but just as thought, Shaheryar, when someone like an Isaac comes from a faraway country, he’s a pastor, he’s been able to preach and interface with the people there. To what degree does that encourage the people there on the ground when someone’s willing to come and spend the time and join in with you and your team coming to their aid and their defense?

Shaheryar Gill:   Sam, I will give a twofold answer to this. One is really from the perspective of people we’ve visited, the clients that we have at the ACL j’s office in Lahore, and they’re from different areas, very poor areas, very poor clients. And as you know, we have talked about are these cases on your show, cases of murder, blasphemy, rape. And one of the things that was encouraging was that they saw that we have Christian brothers and sisters who don’t look like us and they live far away, but they are here help us to stand with us, to pray for us. And Pastor Isaac, he prayed for every single client we visited in their homes, in their villages and the joy that we saw in their faces that somebody who is a believer in Christ just like us, even though he’s far away, even though it doesn’t look like us, he is praying for us. He came and he’s standing with us. That’s from their perspective. The other side of the story is really these people have gone through so much persecution and violence and the surrounding areas when we show up at their villages in their towns, in their homes, I think what it does is it also sends a message to people who are persecuting them that there’s this team, legal team, a pastoral team that’s visiting them and that’s encouraging them and standing by them

Sam Rohrer:       Shaheryar Gill, That is fantastic. Ladies and gentlemen, if you’re just joining us, I’m actually on the phone right now live with Dr. Isaac Crockett, Isaac Crockett and Shaheryar Gill with a ACLJ in Pakistan. Our theme today, I’m titling this reports from afar. We’re going to go back and find out more about the visit to Pakistan. Second half of the program, Dr. Gary Dol will join me and will give an update on our recent trip to Kenya. Well if you’re just joining us here today, thanks for being with us. Today is a program of good news, good news, headline news, except that what we’re sharing is not in the headlines, but it ought to be it’s good news. And on the phone right now with me directly live from Pakistan, nine hours difference time zone from here on the East coast is Dr. Isaac Crockett and Shari Gill with American Center for Law and Justice. Isaac, let me go back to you here right now you’ve visited many different countries, you’ve pastored churches here in America, you’re connected vitally with American Pastors Network, stand in the gap media and as a result you touch literally through that millions of believers. Here’s my question. As you’ve been able to meet and actually preach to various groups there in Pakistan on this trip you just described, how would you describe the state of the church, the state of the church of true believers, the true church in Pakistan?

Isaac Crockett:   Yeah, I would say that the church is strong and growing. Shaheryar, and I were talking and we’ve been talking with several theologically sound pastors saying we’re so thankful for what American missionaries did a hundred years ago. One of the guys that works in this office came from a village that was started in 1924. The center of the village was a beautiful American style Presbyterian church and the whole village is built around it and most of those people are still Christians. Incredible a hundred years later how it’s still going. But in the last few decades, American missionaries have been doing more harm than good in many cases. They’ve been bickering amongst themselves and made one of the worst things is bringing in false theology, prosperity, gospel, fake healings, this idea that it’s all about what you get rather than what God has done and repenting of sins and finding God’s grace.

Isaac Crockett:   And the missionaries have expressed that to us. The good pastors, when I speak at their churches, they vet me first. They want to feel me out to make sure that I’m going to speak the truth and the people come up, those who speak English, and even those who speak through an interpreter, come up and thank me for speaking the truth. The young people, these churches, every church I’ve been in filled with young people from little to tiny children all the way up through college students, very educated professional people, doctors, lawyers, HR executives are in these churches and they find it strange to hear the state of the church in America, they’re worried for the American church because they have looked at us like the William Penn statement, America being the city on a hill. And they have looked to us and what we used to be and they’re worried for where we are now.

Sam Rohrer:       Wow. Isaac, boy, I’d love to go further with you, but  Shaheryar, let me go to you next here you on this program with Isaac and I, you’ve talked about being engaged in defending multiple people in circumstances there in Pakistan, you referred to it in the last segment. People have been persecuted some severely, some losing their lives for their faith in Christ and you and the mission of A CLJ is to help through the courts an appropriate way to bring justice come to the defense of those who are being harmed for their faith in Christ. So here it is, take a couple minutes. Can you give a quick update on one or more perhaps of cases in which you’ve perhaps talked on the program and where and how that’s unfolding as a means of encouraging our listeners to continue to pray?

Shaheryar Gill:   Sam, we have talked about two cases, especially on the show. One is of Shazad, the 16-year-old boy who was sentenced to death by Pakistani court for over an accusation of blasphemy. I was able to actually, we both were able to talk to him on the phone recently, just a couple days ago. He called us from the prison. He is doing well and the update is that his case will be heard toward the end of this month by the appeals court in Pakistan. The full thing was that we were able, Isaac and I were able to meet with the attorney who is representing Shazad and he was in our office. We were able to practice the argument that he will be presenting in the court and we are very confident of the preparation that he has put in. And we spent a couple of hours really, I think it was yesterday, yes, yesterday preparing him, questioning him and just preparing a really good argument.

Shaheryar Gill:   So the request is for the audience to be prayerful for him, for the court, for the judges, for our lawyer who will be representing him at the court. The other case is Nazi, who was killed by a mob over a false accusation of blasphemy as well. And we today actually, we went to his hometown where he was killed. We visited his home, his family, and it was really kind of surreal to just see the videos that we have seen the mob attacking and killing him, that we were on those same streets where 5,000 people had gathered. We walking on the same streets, we saw the house, we saw the places where the man was brutally murdered. So the update about that case is that we have now a court hearing coming up soon in which we have challenged the bail that was granted to the people who killed him. The lower court had granted bail to them and we had challenged that bail in the high court and the high court has given a positive response toward that and they have asked the police to bring the record of the case. And it, I’m hopeful, very hopeful that some of those people who are granted bail will lose at this hearing and will go to jail.

Sam Rohrer:       So God is continuing to bless the effort in the courts. And again, I don’t want to get into this because we don’t have time, but ladies and gentlemen, what we’re explaining here is that in Pakistan there is a Sharia law on the ground, there is a higher court that A CLJ Sharia and his team are able to appeal. And in that level of court, when evidence is presented appropriately wisely, the court has been responding in many cases positively. Now this is a wonderful thing, Shari. I just want to thank you again for what you and your team are doing because in that setting, most people would say there is no hope, but yet there is hope, but you have to be wise enough to be able to use the system as you all are. So thank you. Thank you for that, Isaac, let me go to you here now.

Sam Rohrer:       Next we have listeners from all around the world and many are vitally interested in this program. This one here, stand on the Gap today and stand on the gap TV that you and I are able to do together. But they’re also listening to prior programs as Shari are, we’ve focused on Pakistan, you are there now, that’s where you’re reporting from. And they would like to be able to know more about how they can pray better. Hopefully what we’ve shared helps them to pray more intelligently. But share what your thoughts are, Isaac, about how people maybe let of the Lord yes to pray more, but perhaps to participate any ideas that you might have.

Isaac Crockett:   Yes. So I would say go through a APN and listen to the programs or watch the programs where Shaheryar has been with us. Go to the A CLJ website. A CLJ is a legitimate organization. Unfortunately, there are false organizations using these people’s names. We even ran into a Christian lawyer pretending to be representing one of Sherry R’s own clients. And we did not tell him we knew the truth as he pretended to us that he was the lawyer. So there are groups out there that are masquerading as helpers. They’re not A CLJ is very trustworthy to not just giving out money or doing things for no reason. They’re making very legitimate cases and investments. If you would like to give towards the Pakistan group, give through a APN, go ahead and give through a APN and designate it for what’s going on in Pakistan.

Isaac Crockett:   We can make sure that that goes directly to Shaheryar, Virginia Beach office. And from there it’ll be shared for the needs. And there are needs here. The most important is prayer. Having fellowship and community and communion and prayer time with these people is the most important. Contacting your congressmen and senators is important. Let them know. Put some pressure. Charlie has filed things to the UN and things like that and that has been helping. It’s helping a lot. But yes, if you would feel led to give, you can trust a PN and we are working with the ACL J. I would just say go through a PN and make any gifts. If you’re giving regular to AP N and you want to add something for ACL J, we would deeply appreciate it. And I will tell you this, the money will go very, very far, really for all eternity.

Sam Rohrer:       Isaac, that’s fantastic. Just about a minute left. Isaac, I’m just going to give you take another 45 seconds here. Anything else you would like to share perhaps as a highlight or a matter of encouragement to those who are listening?

Isaac Crockett:   Sam, we were with the family whose childhood had been abducted and killed in the most gruesome of ways. And the shame that that brought to them a very poor village family, I could relate to them because I live in a countryside. I do much of the same kind of manual labor that husband does and father does I have done. And so we could relate. They gave us this beautiful bowl of food. I took a picture and my family in the states was like, wow, that looks amazing. What restaurant is that? It was baked over little cinder block thing with buffalo dried buffalo dung as the fuel for it. It was delicious. But their daughter got out there with prized possession, which was the word of God, the Bible, the family bible. She blessed it, she kissed it, and then she read Psalm one. Blessed is the man that walketh not in the council of ungodly. He is like a tree planted by the rivers of water bringing forth his fruit. The ungodly will perish, but the righteous will not perish. What a powerful object lesson that was for me.

Sam Rohrer:       Absolutely. What a powerful lesson it is for all of us. Isaac from Pakistan, Shaheryar  from Pakistan, thank you so much for carving out this part of your evening there. Now as we’ve done this program, God bless, I’ll say goodbye to you. And ladies and gentlemen, stay with us. Dr. Gary Dull is going to step in the next two segments and we’re going to shift from the far East to Africa, the nation of Kenya and specifically and give an update on a fantastic trip that both Gary and I were involved and many others just about a week ago. Well, welcome back to the program. This is a very special Friday program that have entitled reports from Afar And literally we just had a report from afar directly from Pakistan, Dr. Isaac Crockett and Shaheryar Gill, who is lead counsel for American Center for Law and Justice.

Sam Rohrer:       Both of them are there visiting actual cases, actual people there in Pakistan, one of the most persecuted countries, at least the people persecuting Christians of any nation in the world. So anyway, I’m going to leave that there now and we’ll revisit that just again briefly at the end of the program. But I want to go now to Dr. Gary dah. Gary, thanks for being on here again. A couple of weeks ago, you and I spent some time on a program here and we were talking about at that point an upcoming event to be held in Kenya, in Nairobi, specifically the capital of which you and your ministry way of truth ministries was a part, a major part frankly, and working with churches and found out about a thousand churches. I mean there about a thousand pastors that were at a conference and we talked about that and how God had led open that door, a vision he planted in your head about 18 months or several years ago.

Sam Rohrer:       Actually it came to fruition this year, but now that event is done, it is concluded. But I’d like to go back now and visit that as a report from afar. You happen to be here in your home studio in Altoona, Pennsylvania, so you’re closer, but let’s put our listeners eyes and ears and minds on the ground there in Kenya. So with that, Gary, let me just ask this, give some comments, but as a refresher, what was the trip to Kenya all about? There’s a lot of preaching and teaching of God’s word. It was at the core of it, but just briefly, how’d that come about and what were the goals and the objectives from your perspective?

Gary Dull:            Well, Sam, I’ve been going to Kenya since 1980 and it’s almost as though that’s my second country. I have had the privilege of visiting about 35 nations of the world doing some form of missions ministry. But I’ve been to Kenya probably more than any other nation. And it just seems as though my burden for Kenya continues to grow. And back in 20 17, 20 18, 20 19, we had the opportunity being over there three years in a row. And as a result of that, I began to observe the growth of Islam. It’s just growing by leaps and bounds. And no matter where you go throughout the countryside of Kenya, you see the Muslim mosques just creeping up all over the place. And it was my desire then to put together a conference on Islam. We were planning on doing that in 2020, but of course we know that the Covid hit and so that was unable to take place.

Gary Dull:            But in January of 2023, we put on the conference of Islam down in Mombasa and had about 50 Christian leaders involved out of that. It seemed as though the Lord put a burden on my heart to have a larger conference of pastors and Christian leaders to teach them not only about Islam, but also to just encourage them in the things of the Lord. And so from that point I began to talk with our way of truth representative in Kenya, the name of Benson. And the Lord led us to have this conference in Nairobi, of which you were a part just two weeks ago. And the theme of the conference was equipping believers for the ministry in the 21st century. And when we started putting this conference together, I wanted to bring to Nairobi some of the best speakers that I could get involved with this conference.

Gary Dull:            And that included you as you went and you spoke a lot on the church and government. In fact, you had the opportunity to speak to several hundred leaders in government as it relates to not only the chaplains, but some specific others who were involved in government on the Friday session that you had over there. So I invited you to be with us. I invited George Barney to go and of course he went by way of video. I wanted David Kissler to go, but he was unable to go due to the death of his son Nate. But the Lord brought together a group of men who were able to teach the believers who gathered there to equip them in a greater way for a ministry in the 21st century. And I was thrilled for the way that it worked out. I was thrilled for your involvement and I trust, I know the Lord blessed the people there, but I trusted the Lord blessed you as well as the result of your involvement.

Sam Rohrer:       Well absolutely, Gary, God really did bless my heart. I had not been to Africa before, so therefore I had not been to Kenya before. I know a number of people like you who’ve been to Kenya and Kenya seems to be, if there’s a lead country with a potential to impact an entire continent for the Lord more than any other, I walked away thinking that that probably was Kenya and therefore it makes it even more significant I think. But oh, I had a lot of those things, Gary, but I asked Isaac in the other segment that if he could pick one highlight spiritual highlight of his trip and he’s still there, things are still happening. But now that you were there this week and you’ve been there many times as you said, but of this particular conference this week when you were there, was there a specific spiritual highlight or takeaway that you observed that you could share with our listeners?

Gary Dull:            Well, there were several things. As a matter of fact, on the first Sunday that we were over there, we had the opportunity to travel down into the Hindu area. And I had the privilege of preaching in what we’d call one of the bush churches. And there were about five people who made decisions for Christ as the result of that. But then even as it relates to the larger conference, I was just encouraged to see how the pastors and the Christian leaders who were there had the desire to unite together for the cause of Christ and to stick together in the propagation of the gospel of Jesus Christ. And as you know, on one of the times that I had the opportunity to preach, there were about 300 pastors who responded saying that they were committing themselves to remaining strong in Christ, even in the face of the various struggles and challenges and persecutions that they face. Because keep in mind that even in Kenya there have been those who’ve been persecuted for their faith by the Muslims. And so to see this number of people as pastors come together and say, we’re going to stand firm in the propagation of the gospel no matter what was quite an encouragement to me. And I think that the Lord certainly blessed as a result of all of us who were involved in speaking during that week.

Sam Rohrer:       Gary, it was encouraging to me to, again, I had not been there before, but to learn that the group of pastors that we were part of, they represent, it was African inland church, was the name, a solid group of pastors that stood in contrast to other groups of churches and pastors there that are not standing on the word of God and departing from the faith in various ways like so many churches here in America. That was a bit of encouragement to me to see that number. And that seems to me, Gary, that timour, I got to talk with some of those guys and the leaders, as you did to say, these are men of like mind. And certainly the whole conference was devoted to the authority of scripture, the authority of scripture, fear of God, and keep his commandments, be bold in your faith, all of those things. That was something that stood out to me.

Gary Dull:            Well it was. And they really have a desire to maintain the biblical worldview. Of course. That’s why we had George Barner there to encourage them. But we have an association with the International Leadership University of which you got to know some of those people and their desire is to maintain and to teach the concept of the biblical worldview. So it’s important and encouraging, I should say to me when we travel over to Kenya to find that there are pastors over there who understand that there are many things going on in the name of Christianity today. They’re not biblically based, but these were pastors who were solidly grounded on the word of God. They were not involved in emotionalism, they were not involved in the charismatic movement or anything that perhaps detracted from the true teaching of the word of God. They were committed to the truth of the scripture. And I think that the way that they responded to your teaching and George’s teaching and other teachings that week, Dan Woodring was with us as well, I think shows that they had the desire to continue to lay a solid foundation of biblical truth in that nation.

Sam Rohrer:       Gary, when we were at the first part of the program, you weren’t on, but you were listening to the discussion. Isaac shared that there in Pakistan that a competing view, which we saw there in Africa was what often is referred to as the prosperity gospel mentality, which in Kenya was wrapped up in bribery. I was amazed at how many of the people talk about bribery coming right into the pulpit. And certainly it is known within government that was the reason for talking about integrity to government leaders. But that prosperity gospel part, as Isaac was talking about, that’s sure prevalent right there in Africa as well. Isn’t it dangerous?

Gary Dull:            It is. And of course with Way of truth ministries, we are involved in about six different African nations. And the prosperity gospel is something that’s growing in every one of those nations. And I think it’s simply because of the fact that most of people do live in poverty. They are very easily led astray and they get caught up in that prosperity gospel and it’s something that’s all over the continent of Africa. But these people that we were with, they were solid believers who wanted to understand more about the word of God. And I think that they responded to that in a very appropriate way.

Sam Rohrer:       They really did. And ladies and gentlemen, we’ll continue a little bit more about how you can help and pray better, but just in case we’ve used that term prosperity gospel, Isaac referenced it, we’ve just talked about it. Gary, when you come back, I’d like you just to define that to make sure that our listeners understand what that is because many may not actually know. So stay with us. We’ll be back ladies and gentlemen in just a moment. Well, as we go into our final segment here now on this Special Friday program, we’re calling reports from afar having gone to Pakistan live, to hear from Dr. Isaac Crockett and now Dr. Gary Doll and I discussing the recent trip a couple of weeks ago now from this program to Kenya, a nation frankly in Africa as a continent, if there’s a nation that probably is in the best position to maybe lead with truth to the influencing of a nation, it would be Kenya.

Sam Rohrer:       But they have real needs as we have real needs here. There’s no question it’s the same no matter where you go in the world, but nonetheless, let’s go back to that, Gary, because one of the threats even within the population of Africa, I think even in Kenya, I think the numbers were there, self-identified about 80% of the population say they’re Christian here in America it’s about 74% now, yet we know that those are not all Christians. They don’t live like it. It’s the same way around the world. But we were talking about prosperity gospel as something that’s finding inroads. It’s harming those who call themselves Christians there in Pakistan and certainly across Africa. And we just talked about that. But for the sake of those who maybe heard that term but not knowing exactly what it is, would you define that please, just to make sure we have a right handle on what that is and why it is so dangerous?

Gary Dull:            Well, I think the prosperity gospel comes mainly from the United States of America here, from what I would call false teachers. And that would be those who completely misunderstand and the word of God. For instance, in Joshua chapter one in verse eight, it says, this book of the law shall not be part of thy mouth, but thou shalt meditate therein day and night that thou Mays observe to do according to all that is written therein for them, thou shalt make thy way prosperous and then thou shalt have good success. And what God was promising, Joshua, there was that if Joshua maintained his own walk with the Lord and maintained biblical truth in his life, that God would prosper him and give him success in his ministry in leading the children of Israel across the Jordan River and into the Promised Land. And we do know that Joshua maintained his focus on God, and God did bless him in his ministry.

Gary Dull:            But what the prosperity theologians, I guess I should say, I don’t like that word necessarily applied to the prosperity people. But what they nevertheless teach is that if you plant a certain seed and give a certain amount of money to the work of the Lord, whatever that may be, God will prosper you in bringing great riches back into your coffers as it were. And that is nowhere found in the scripture. Now, the Bible teaches us that as we give unto the work of the Lord, we can expect God will bless us. And certainly as we follow the will of the Lord, we can expect that God will prosper us in our ministry. But God is not out to make millionaires out of those who plant a seed, a financial seed to give to his work. And that really is the essence of the prosperity gospel people. You plant a seed, God is going to bring many physical financial riches unto you. And that’s not the teaching of the word of God at all. And yet many people get caught up in that, not only here in the States, but particularly in some of the third world countries around the world.

Sam Rohrer:       Gary, I think that is excellent. Ladies and gentlemen that I connected on the other side, the idea of bribery finding its way in. It’s a concept. I’m going to add a thought to what Gary said. It’s the idea that you give to get. And when that becomes the motive for giving, ultimately you want to figure out how you can get something so you do good things or you go to church, you put money in the offering plate, not because it is right worship before God, but it’s to get. That’s kind of what’s behind that. And when that happens and that seed’s planted, the whole concept of bribery becomes into effect because now your motives are not driven by love for God. It’s driven by underneath what I can get. Anyways, I’m going to stop right there, but that is something that I saw very firsthand.

Sam Rohrer:       It’s prevalent across America, but you’ve heard it this morning, Pakistan as well as in Kenya, Gary, as a result of us being there, many of the leaders of the church, the pastors and all that we were a part of, they walked away with already planning for another event or events next year. Share a little bit about what that is, the challenges that come with it. Anyways, put some flesh to that because I was glad that they are thinking about next year and more taking place of the same type. But how do you see that possibly working out?

Gary Dull:            When we originally began to plan this particular conference this year, we had in mind the idea of having a citywide evangelistic emphasis year. And I’m not exactly sure that that’s going to happen. That is something that I would encourage our listeners to continue to pray about. But as the result of this conference that we had, the pastors came to us and they would like for us to go back next year and now three, two day conferences in various locations, geographical locations around Kenya so that more of their pastors can come in and be trained along the same line that this larger group was trained when we were over there a couple of weeks ago. So I’m thankful for that, and we’re going to pray for that to see if God would have us to follow through with that. I think it’s exciting that they want us to come back and we’ll look forward to that if indeed the Lord is going to give us that opportunity. But also as the result of this conference, it could be that the Lord would be opening the door for standing the gap even to be aired there in a Nairobi radio station, Sam, and maybe you can share more about that to our

Sam Rohrer:       Listeners. Yeah, Gary. Absolutely. Ladies and gentlemen, I share this part that Gary just brought up as an evidence of the blessing of your participation as a faithful listener, as someone who’s praying, and for many of you who give now, here is the result as a part of this organization of churches, they have a radio station, that Christian station that covers between that station and number of translators. Nearly the entire nation of Kenya goes, I believe, into some of Uganda and another neighboring country, but who speak English. So a English speaking program like this, you’re listening to now They want. And after our time there, they actually brought up and said, we want to add stand in the gap today. And then Gary has a program, a 15 minute pastoral charge, Bible teaching Monday through Friday to add it in the morning. And then a discussion after that would appear to perhaps be that our stand in the Gap TV program 30 minute weekly will also be something that is added.

Sam Rohrer:       Our participation provided them predictable quality, biblical worldview authority and scripture grounded programs on issues. Believe it or not, what we talk about here they know about, they want to know about they are desirous of that. That was not something that we thought about when we were going over, but appears to be something that is working out. So I would ask you all pray that those details would be worked out. That’s the stage we’re in that would reach millions of more people preaching the gospel, a biblical worldview just as we have here Gary’s program, the Stand in the Gap today, and the TV program, all of that. And I would also, since we’re just about the A, ladies and gentlemen, share all of this, we ask you to pray fervently. If God has laid on your heart something with Pakistan and what we talked about or Kenya and what Gary and I have just talked about, and you would like to give something and participate financially, send a gift to a PM and market, either Kenya or Pakistan, that’ll be part of an indication perhaps of what we may do here in the future, depending upon how God may lay it upon your heart and how you would respond.

Sam Rohrer:       And of course, continue to pray fervently and to give for APN Dr. Gary Dull. Gary, thank you so much for being a part and what a glorious update. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for being with us today. Your participation here is reaping wonderful benefits, encouraging people around the world laying up treasure in heaven. God bless you all.