Disaster in DC: A Black Hawk Pilot Commentary
Feb. 5, 2025
Host: Hon. Sam Rohrer
Guest: Jeff Nicklaus
Note: This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program aired on 2/5/25. To listen to the podcast, click HERE.
Disclaimer: While reasonable efforts have been made to provide an accurate transcription, the following is a representation of a mechanical transcription and as such, may not be a word for word transcript. Please listen to the audio version for any questions concerning the following dialogue.
Sam Rohrer:
Hello and welcome to this Wednesday edition of Stand In the Gap Today In a day that’s witnessing further incredible changes if for no other reason than the result of sweeping Trump policy changes, which are literally rewriting the status quo here in America as well as frankly around the world. For instance, as of yesterday, Pam Bondi was approved by the full Senate and becomes the next US Attorney General and head of the Department of Justice. Robert F. Kennedy as of yesterday was voted out of the finance committee and now advances to the full Senate for a vote on his nomination to head the Department of Health and Human Services. And while as significant as these things are, and they are the announcement by Donald Trump that he will issue an executive order to shut down the entire US Department of Education, another whole front has been opened in the changing of the status quo and perhaps the most unexpected.
For me personally, I didn’t expect this at all. An international announcement last night following the historic meeting between Israel’s, Benjamin Netanyahu and Donald Trump, where Trump, if you do not know, announced that the US would take over the Gaza Strip and in his words would literally own the Gaza, would move out the Palestinians level, the buildings that are there or whatever’s left, standing there and rebuild modern cities in the Gaza. And while as we do this program right now, the world frankly still awaiting the responses to this announcement by friends and enemies alike, I’m going to share that based on what I have heard thus far and I’ve listened to the announcement and all I am on one hand excited, but I’m going to put out there on the other hand, greatly concerned if for no other reason than the land the Gaza belongs to Israel by God’s covenant and declaring that we will own it raises the potential in my thinking of hearing from God on this matter like we did following the announcement of Abrahamic Accords five years ago.
And while I may give further comments on this in the next day or two, JR McGee and I, we’ll discuss this more in depth for sure with whatever we know at that point and other strategic developments this coming Monday, February 10. But moving to today’s subject, as I had mentioned in earlier programs, the mid-air collision of the military Black Hawk Helicopter in the American Airlines commercial jet outside Reagan airport in DC last week has raised many questions, key portions of which have not yet been answered and may perhaps now be overshadowed by other major changes. Some of those I just mentioned. Now today, I’ve asked a friend and a person well experienced to give comment on this historic collision in obviously a very sad loss of life. Jeff Nicklaus is my guest. He’s a 20 year US Army veteran, having received his first assignment in the hundred first Airborne Division, qualified in the 60 Blackhawk, but soon went on to the 160th SOAR as it’s called Special Operations Aviation Regimen.
Task Force one 60 was the unit that was in Somalia with Delta Force and Army Rangers and in a series of takeout and capture missions of a Somali warlord called Gothic serpent, that was the name of that mission, Jeff flew one of the choppers in these missions from which the movie Black Hawk Down is based. He comes from a long military heritage with family serving in the US military going all the way back to the Revolutionary War. He’s the founder now of compliant technologies, a 100% veteran veteran-owned business dedicated to assisting our dedicated law enforcement, corrections, security services and EMS at the local, state and federal levels along with our military forces. The title I’ve chosen for today’s program is this Disaster in DC, a Black Hawk Pilot commentary. And with that, I welcome to the program veteran Jeff Nicklaus. Jeff, thank you for being with me today on the program.
Jeff Nicklaus:
I’m glad to be here with you today, Sam, thank you. It’s an honor to be with you, brother.
Sam Rohrer:
Jeff, before we get into the specific commentary on the DC collision and what we now know, what we still do not know and answering a number of the questions that are existing out there, and then in the final segment getting recommendations from you on how do we learn from this and change what we’re doing. Perhaps during your time in the military as a helicopter pilot now 20 year veteran, you’ve identified, I know I’ve heard you express it, the importance of operating manuals to help guide soldiers during critical missions. Would you share just a bit of this concept and then we can perhaps apply it more in the final solution segment?
Jeff Nicklaus:
Yeah, and Sam, you and I have talked in the past and we talked about how the Bible is what I term as a military document because you can answer every paragraph within a five paragraph military operations order through scripture. And I’ve always referred to the Bible as a standard operating procedure and if we did that more often, we’d probably be in less trouble. So that’s just kind of how I view it and I take this as the reference for how I conduct my life and others as well. And we just try to put the Lord first and we use that SOP as our guiding force as we go down this path in life that God has us on.
Sam Rohrer:
Alright, and ladies and gentlemen, I’ve had Jeff on the program before, and you can actually go back and find it in our archives of stand in the gap radio.com where we did through this entire application of operating procedures, but just out of the application here as a military guy you are a part of, for instance, that force that was there in Somalia, from which we have that moving now Black Hawk down to what degree did the existence of operating procedures operating manual, to what extent was that critical in the success of that mission?
Jeff Nicklaus:
Well, in the military we had a say in the plan is only the foundation for change, so you’ve always got to start somewhere. And then SOP is basically those documents that you use for mission planning, execution, contingency operations that you use in absence of a brief change. And to be competent as part of the mission, you really kind of needed to have 25 to 30% of your SOP known cold so that you could be a competent part of the mission. And that goes into play even what happened here recently in Washington, there’s certain procedures that need to be followed in order to hopefully ensure mission success. And unfortunately, some things got missed and it’s not hard to do actually, but because aircraft cockpits can be pretty busy. But those are the foundations upon which we do planning and mission execution.
Sam Rohrer:
Okay. And Jeff, that brings us right up to the break and ladies and gentlemen, we will talk more in application of that and actually build out that concept about the necessity for established procedures and processes. But certainly can you not make that connection with us as believers and the word of God as our operating manual? That’s a fantastic way to think of the practicality, the authority of knowing what to do in the circumstances of life. If we don’t know the Bible, frankly, I’m going to say other manuals are very difficult to put together. It starts right there. Stay with us, we’ll be back disaster in DC a Black Hawk pilot commentary, my special guest Jeff Nicklaus, 20-year US Army Veteran. Well, if you’re just joining us today, welcome aboard. And this is a program that I talked about last week that would have a special guest with me today.
And he is special, Jeff Nicklaus, he’s a 20-year US Army veteran, served in Somalia as a part of the 160th special operations aviation regiment. And through a series of missions where he was apart flying a chopper, a black hawk in that setting from which then was made the movie Black Hawk down. And because of Jeff, your background and your experience in the military and flying Blackhawks after the mid there collision happened there in DCI called you and I said, what you, what’s your take on this, Jeff? And so you agreed to come on the program today and at this point we’ll talk about what we know at this point because when events like the DC mid-air collision happen, Jeff, or when any other type of government regulated public transportation collision, and particularly when there’s a death or property damage occurs, normally there is an investigation to determine what exactly happened and not just what but why.
And people have come to rightly expect that to help bring some type of closure to the event. And from my experience when I was in office in the legislative branch, I consider this part of it bring to the equation the legal perspective to determine the cause or the blame because that’s a matter of law. But anyways, I lay that as a preparatory thing. But Jeff, from a process or an operations perspective, from your experience as a military veteran, from a family of military veterans going all the way back to Revolutionary War, why are honest and thorough investigations in such events like happened down in DC so necessary, put another way, why is it important to determine the exact what happened and why it happened? Why is that important to do?
Jeff Nicklaus:
Well, when anything happens, especially this magnitude, you want to look at all the different contributing factors and there’s some contributing and there’s some not directly involved and maybe not directly involved, but part of the reason why things happen. And so basically the bottom line is what happened and how can we avoid it again in a criminal setting? And what was the motive and why somebody did something and what was going on in the aircraft and what are some of the things that we need to put into place that we can help affect change. So this doesn’t happen again. And I think we’re going to talk a little bit more about what we know and what we don’t know, but pretty much we want to make sure how do we avoid this from happening again in the future?
Sam Rohrer:
Okay. And I think that that is perfect. It’s natural that if we want to limit collateral damage, property damage or save life when there’s an accident of this type, the natural thing is to what happened and why so that we can avoid doing it again. And I think it’s simple ladies and gentlemen, but I wanted Jeff to be able to say that because really that’s what it comes down to. We don’t want it to occur again, therefore you have to know the facts. So let’s go to that next step, Jeff, as you’ve looked at this DC event, this collision, what can you identify at this point? Because what’s known now is a little bit different, but what can you lay on the table are known critical facts that which seems to be fully agreed to? What do we really know now? And then I’ll follow up with another question of what we have yet to find out, but lay on the table the critical, what we do know as critical facts.
Jeff Nicklaus:
Okay, well first of all, I want to make sure people understand I’m not pointing a finger because anything can happen anybody at any time. And I’ve always said when you point a finger, you’ve got three pointing right back at you. So we want to make sure that we’re not being overly critical. However, there are some things we understand that when accidents happen, there are normally a chain of events and your goal as you do risk mitigation and planning is to break the chain of those things that potentially could cause an accident. So what do we know? We do know that we had a male and a female aviator, not that that’s necessarily an issue. One was a warrant officer, one was a captain. Captains typically don’t fly as much in the military as your warrant officers do. They’re really the backbone of army aviation. What I understand, this captain was on a check ride, an annual check ride, and sometimes their hours can be few and far between.
You also had a 1000 hour instructor pilot, and we would consider those guys to be somewhat junior aviators. I would assume there used to be a requirement that you had to have more than 500 hours in order to be able to go to the instructor pilot school. I don’t know when he got out and how much time he had in the cockpit as an instructor, but in an urban area like that, the radios can be very busy. I don’t know if the aircraft was equipped with what was called A DSB and if so was it on? And that’s automatic dependent surveillance broadcast, which gives different warnings of proximity with everybody that’s on that network where other aircraft are in relation to you and it sends your information to them as well. So I know that from an army standpoint, most accidents occur between five and 800 hour aviators.
And that’s because when you start getting a little experience, you start becoming confident and maybe a little overconfident in some of your abilities and sometimes you can easily start flying outside of your envelope. In other words, taking the aircraft beyond your ability to do in this case, I don’t know, that was looked like it was simply a deviation and altitude. I don’t know why they deviated. I looked at the chart and they’re strictly limited to 200 feet MSL in this case because it’s so close to the ocean, MSL and a GL are quickly or they’re very closely related and above ground level versus mean sea level. So you’re supposed to be at 200 feet off the ground or off the water flying that route. So being at 350 feet, they were in violation of that route. So we know that it was more the army’s fault.
Now when they get and dig into the data information, I don’t know if the army has voice recorders in their cockpits now, I don’t know if it was a mic model aircraft, which more sophisticated avionics or an older model Lima model. I’m not sure what they use there. It depends. That’ll be very telling and what information they’re able to gather from the situation. And also I saw where there’s a separate frequency for helicopter to operate on that route. So the airline, I don’t know what the tower was doing. There’s a chance that the fixed wing did not hear the conversations between the helicopter and tower. And the other thing that I noticed when I heard he kept asking the guy if he had the visual separation, he kept saying, yes, I believe ultimately, they mistook another aircraft, what they were looking at instead of the one that they really should have been seeing.
And so I think that’s where there was some confusion. You’re also talking to a guy that is very challenging to fly a monochromatic, whether it’s green phosphorus or the new white phosphorus to be able to see in urban environments, you can get other lights lost real quickly. I’m a guy that happened in an urban training event many years ago. I retired in 2006, it was in the south and I hid an unlit antenna. It’s only by God’s grace and I’m here to be able to talk to you today. That antenna was unlit. It was near a propane farm and it came in view at the last second. I actually avoided it, but it still took out my chin bubble portion of my rotor blade and I yanked that entire antenna out of the stanchion. So it’s amazing how things can be lost in that background. So that’s part of the problem, which I think may have contributed as well.
Sam Rohrer:
Okay, we don’t have much time left, but I put this in here at this point. From your perspective, what pieces of critical information do you think are not yet known in analyzing exactly what happened,
Jeff Nicklaus:
What was going on in the cockpit? Were they distracted? If the aviator, the captain was not that competent of a copilot, and again, I don’t know her abilities, I don’t know, I’m not going to say she was a bad copilot or not, but the IP could have been distracted. Maybe they both had their head in a cockpit looking at something and then things happen. The chances that they hit are so rare. If they would’ve taken off just a second or two later or prior a one or two degree difference, 50 feet difference in altitude, it takes, there’s so many near misses that I think the odds are we knew that the Lord allowed that to happen that day. And it’s a sad situation and nobody wants to see that happen again. But we have to understand there’s other agendas that came into play with the, if you want to call it the philosophy of a previous administration allowing people in cockpits and maybe other people weren’t allowed. And then we also know the effects of the vaccines.
Sam Rohrer:
And I want to ask you, and I want to ask you about that a little bit more in the next segment, but when you’re talking earlier about white phosphorus and all that, is that in reference to night vision goggles and all that,
Jeff Nicklaus:
Right, the makeup of the night vision tube, we went from a green phosphorus to a white phosphorus to make things a little bit clearer and get rid of what’s called the halo effect a little bit to where we have a really strong light at Crete, so like a halo around that light. And then looking into a densely packed urban area. If you’re looking down, it can be real difficult to pick something out. So it’s a combination. The American airline, it was his airspace, it was the duty of the Army helicopter pilot to see and avoid. He said he had the aircraft in sight. One of the things I noticed that the controller didn’t say is when they get close they’ll say, do you have the art, that particular type of aircraft at 12 o’clock and a half mile? He never pointed out distances or headings or anything like that in a nose direction from the aircraft. And he’d go on to say he’s turning final for runway three. Three.
Sam Rohrer:
Alright, ladies and gentlemen. There’s far too much to be able to discuss on this issue, but I’m bringing up some of those things you’ve heard and analysis from an experienced Black Hawk helicopter pilot. And when we come back, we’re going to actually deal with a few of these questions that out there that perhaps don’t have an answer yet. Get his perspective once in a very political climate like this DC collision. Anytime these events kind of come together a big event in a very politicized climate, those moments I have found generally become quickly encumbered with emotional speculation and strategic inference as everybody tries to get a leg up politically, it doesn’t actually work towards a complete genuine, transparent goal. Now those are my thoughts. And when in combination with a media which has for a long time now forsaken the reporting of the facts of the news and replaced it from their own words with strategic interpretation and a strategic bias of the news, with the intent to distract or place blame by subjective innuendo, rather than letting honest investigation in the rules of truth and truth justice, well, it becomes nearly impossible to learn the truth.
And based on that, make then honest adjustments to policy and regulation, which is something that should do and investigations should end up directing now in such a climate questions rather than answers and speculation rather than truth end up being the result. In such times I suggest that we all lose and confusion rather than instruction and division rather than true closure and healing occurs. And as believers, we do not want to be part of division and emotionally driven speculation. That’s why we pray for wisdom and truth and let the truth drive it. So Jeff, since it appears that no blame or fault as I set the beginning, as part of the result of the investigation because that has to come out that no blame or fault appears to be placed at all on the commercial airline pilot since he had been cleared and he had the right of way so to speak, the fault seems to lay squarely on the army chopper, which is what you were saying.
And according to the air traffic controller, three occasions said, do you have this plane in sight? And they confirmed and then you came back and said they could have said specifically like 11 o’clock or one o’clock or whatever to make sure that in fact it was looking at the right one. But in any event, that may not have happened and the airliner was hit directly. Now here’s my question here. You did comment, but I wanted to expand it just a bit. The pilot in question, Rebecca Loach is reported to have had 500 hours of flight training and I think you suggested maybe that the other one there maybe had a thousand, but here’s my question again, most people have no idea, sounds like a lot, but as a matter of experience, reiterate what you said is 500 or even a thousand hours of flying experience, is it a lot? Does that mean great experience or does that mean less than great experience?
Jeff Nicklaus:
Well, that’ll always boil down to the individual. I met some guys with very low amount of hours that seemed to be a natural at aviation. But generally speaking, we’d call a 500 hour aviator, a junior aviator, and then an IP at a thousand hours. We’d consider him a junior instructor pilot because with that amount of flight time, that means maybe been a year or so since you got out of the instructor pilot course. Now that’s me speculating based upon my previous experience, I’m not sure, but I do know they said it was about a thousand
Sam Rohrer:
Hours
Jeff Nicklaus:
Of flying.
Sam Rohrer:
Okay, so we’re not talking greatly experienced. Just out of curiosity, I’ve never asked you before, you’ve flown choppers for a long time, you still do. Do you have any idea how many hours you’ve actually flown?
Jeff Nicklaus:
Well, when I got out of the army I had 5,000 overall hours in Blackhawks and then I had about 2000 night vision goggle hours. And so that’s kind of the rarity. Aviation fixed wing time builds up much more rapidly. A lot of that just has to do with legs because helicopters burn fuel at a much higher rate. And so you normally have shorter sorties unless you’re going to do aerial refueling or have reserve tanks or you can go double your time, which is maybe five to six hours.
Sam Rohrer:
Alright, so I’m just going to let it that and I think our listeners can grab that. Lemme go and ask you another question here then during the White House press conference, right afterward there were a couple of department, the Secretary of Transportation, I think the president himself basically made a statement that this was inexcusable should never have happened and so forth. But here’s my question. This may be a little tough question, but is it possible, and you may have already alluded to it, but is it possible for frankly in a situation like that, for everything to have been done and there still be an accident,
Jeff Nicklaus:
If everybody did what they were supposed to do, there would not have been an accident. Now if they converged and let’s say they converged just right at the same time, there would’ve been 150 feet gap based upon the required altitudes. We know that the Black Hawk was flying 76 knots in 350 feet, which is 150 feet above the altitude authorized to fly. And we know that everything being equal with that aircraft, the American Airlines, with the way they’re set up in the runway, I don’t see them being that low. So it might’ve looked like a close call with that aircraft line right over them, but they would not have hit
Sam Rohrer:
Okay
Jeff Nicklaus:
If everybody did everything according to the manuals and the charts, the way they’re laid out there would not have hit.
Sam Rohrer:
Okay, so that statement as it was made and somehow took offense at that, but what you’re saying is had everything been done the way it should have been done, that event would not have happened. But you gave the example of for instance, flying into that tower years ago for you, were you doing everything right at that point or do you think you’re flying into that tower was something that wasn’t done properly?
Jeff Nicklaus:
Well, you know what I mean, hindsight, normally when you’re stacked up, I had an aircraft that had what was called a low ETF aircraft torque factor. And I really did not want to get caught up in, as we were going into the target, the rotor of the wash of the aircraft in front of me because that’s a thing that robs power as well. And I kind of wanted to get onto the ground ahead of time. I wasn’t much lower than the lead aircraft. Had I been behind him and higher, I probably would not have hit the antenna. So hindsight’s 2020 and I will tell you I never viewed myself as God’s gift to aviation. Could I have done things better? I always have. I think you’re always looking to proverbially tighten up your shot group so you don’t make the same mistakes again. And I’ve always said I was the guy that snuck into the one 60th, I mean a very good group of very capable people and I felt honored to be there and I kind of like I said, feel like I snuck in the door.
Sam Rohrer:
Okay. Well I think God puts you there, Jeff, as we know you’re a believer, people can understand it and we know that God puts people where they are. So let’s just move on. Another question here, and this is something to which you’ve referred partially, but at that same conference, something that is to me unresolved, yet there was an insinuation, a major statement made by the president at the conference that it was because of certain policies and DEI policies and things that perhaps put people unqualified in key positions that rankled a lot of people still not fully resolved. Do you think that that possibly could have had an impact or have you seen those kinds of policies elsewhere in military actions having an effect like that?
Jeff Nicklaus:
Listen, I’m kind of an old school guy and people will probably hate me for saying this. I think women were created as a blessing to humankind and they have certain attributes. I’ve always been in favor of the fact that I think men ought to protect their country, ought to protect their families, ought to protect their wives and mothers. And so putting women in harm’s way, in combat arms and in cockpits, I’ve met some great women but that were really good. But I called them the exception and not the rule. And so we had a lot of issues with women back in the day that really did not do well and I would not pass them in check rises because they didn’t have the oral knowledge or the ability to fly the aircraft in a competent manner. And when you put people in the back of the bird, you’re signing off the responsibility.
I’m not saying that’s true for all women, but what I’m saying is how many guys and under the guise of whether it’s an L-G-B-T-Q, whether it’s a woman, the guise of creating an agenda, putting people in positions that have to have certain qualifications, they don’t meet those qualifications, but to match the agenda, they put them there anyway and then you get the result and that’s what happens. Had it been a different set of circumstances at the end of the day, I don’t know this captain, I don’t know if she was flying, I don’t know her abilities. I don’t want to take anything away from her. I mean there’s still stuff to be determined, but I will tell you if it wasn’t this, it’s other situations where we put people, you should go back and look at the FA interview for that Biden put in for the head of the FAA. He didn’t know any aviation question sent to him and he’s going to be the guy in charge of the FAA. It’s absolutely ludicrous. You get what you pay for and it’s not like you can have these attitudes that well, we’re going to fill this agenda in order to make a point when you make other people suffer for it.
And so it’s a shame. It really is a shame.
Sam Rohrer:
But you are agreeing with the fact that you have personally seen the impact of politically correct agendas being overlaid and overriding the selection of the highest quality person for particular jobs. That’s basically what you’re saying as well. Right
Jeff Nicklaus:
Now the 160th has women in it. I think there are other guys that are probably more qualified, but I think there was an agenda. I’m not saying that they aren’t great aviators and they don’t help, but what I’m saying is other guys could have filled those roles.
Sam Rohrer:
Okay, ladies and gentlemen, you get the idea and I think you sense what Jeff is saying in the context with which he is speaking. And I think that is important to understand. We come back, we’re going to say right now based on what we know, what should be the takeaway from government officials, individuals nationally. Well, as we go into our final segment, I said at the beginning that we would take what we have covered in this program. And again, our theme today, if you’ve perhaps just tuning in late in the program is Disaster in DC, a Black Hawk pilot commentary. My special guest has been Black Hawk Flying Veteran, 20 year veteran US Army, Jeff Nicklaus. And I just want to, for those who are listening, there was a prior program that I did with Jeff and I just don’t have it right in front of me.
It was back probably a couple of years ago now where he and I talked on the aspect of operating manuals, standard operating procedure, SOPs. And it was one of the most practical presentations. I’ve actually heard my guest, Jeff, speak in front of large groups of people, not just men’s events, but others on this aspect of taking the knowledge of operating procedures from a military perspective and applying at that of life. And he did that at the beginning and speaking about in reality the most, I don’t want to say the most accurate, but it is, it’s all truth, is the word of God. That is our operating manual for life. And so that’s why in this program we talk about a biblical worldview, the authority of scripture, it’s for a reason because when we do, we fear God and keep his commandments what the Bible says.
Things will go well and God will bless. That’s it. Simple as that. Now in this regard, Jeff, let me get into it and try to wrap some things up here. From all events in our lives, whether national or local or personal in scope, choices have consequences. And I talk about that many times on this program, choices have consequences. Therefore wisdom is required in all things to make right choices based on as much truthful information as possible. The Book of James, ladies and gentlemen tells if any of you lack wisdom, the assumption is yes, we all lack wisdom, so therefore let us ask it. But where do we get it from? The word of God. So that’s where it is. We’re going to pray for wisdom. We need to read the word of God. Now that being the case, each event in life, each choice is one that’s worthy of being revisited.
Just like now this one in dc, this mid-air collision just becomes an extraordinarily big one because Frankly, the whole world heard about it. But they become, as I taught my children, my grandchildren regularly is to look for teachable moments because there are times when things happen where we are more induced to learn. So if we don’t learn from such times, we’re only destined to experience more of the same. And that’s not good. Now Jeff, there are three categories I want you to just comment on briefly from your perspective. One is official or governmental, then there’s personal, then there’s national. Let’s go here first. What recommendation for wise, change wise change in policy wise, change in regulation based on what we know and yet don’t know perhaps in this circumstance would you offer to those? Let’s start with governmental or military perspective. What should they learn? How should they respond to this as a teachable moment?
Jeff Nicklaus:
Well, I think we always have to look back and see what happened. How can we make change? But instead of a knee jerk reaction, what’s meaningful change? I think we need to realize that anything can happen to anybody at any time. So again, I’m not pointing fingers at the people and the truth will come out here in days or months and I don’t know why they scrubbed that girl’s social media and all other kind of stuff. But I think we need to go back to a moral compass. I think that we should put the Lord first because without him, they labor in vain who do things.
And I think President Trump is doing a great, fantastic job. I believe the Lord has anointed him. But I also think we need to make sure that even President Trump should be looking for divine guidance and intervention. I question some of his spiritual leaders and what they’re all about and I pray for him and his family. Absolutely love the man. Nobody could have done what he did without God’s power. And I think he’ll go down as probably the President is the greatest one in our country’s history to save this country. Absolutely love and respect that guy, but we have to realize he’s not God and we have to place our confidence and faith and trust in him and not one man.
Sam Rohrer:
Alright, so if I’d summarize real quickly a takeaway, what you’re saying is that all those in positions of authority, governmental or military should look at what is taking place. But ultimately, if they’re not looking to God first for his direction, for what the word of God would say should be, the response, I’m going to put it in my terms, and I believe that I see this far too much, is that we are witnessing if we don’t do that what you said first look to God’s word first and say we’re all only going to give an account to God and pray for wisdom. We’re ultimately going to put our arms around pragmatism and the best of human wisdom, which I think is driving a lot of what we’re seeing. But it always ends up in a heap because we’re not following first of all, the standard operating procedures of the word of God. I’m rephrasing change that if you want to. But let me go to this and say, as an entire nation, we are looking at this event and many others. Is there a same recommendation or is there another recommendation for our nation as a whole?
Jeff Nicklaus:
Well, you know what, I just wanted to back up a little bit. And Isaiah, I believe it was in Isaiah, it says, man’s wisdom is God’s foolishness. And I think Billy Graham said it best that we’ve done a great job of educating ourselves to hell. And if that’s true about a spiritual aspect, when you take man’s wisdom and you’re not looking to God for direction and divine intervention, and you can read all throughout history how God has intervened in the creation of our nation through the evolution of war and all these different things where you look and see God’s hand, when we come back to him, that’s when he sets things right. And I think that’s why we as a nation and we should consider this event and everything like it, nine 11 and all the other things behind that, as I call them little love taps from God.
Or we maybe have them called the little mini come to Jesus meetings for our nation to maybe sit back and make us think. I used to ask guys, where are you in your life right now? What are your priorities and where are you heading? If we’re just going to rely on a man in wisdom and think that Donald Trump is going to save us and be our savior and all that, then we’re already going down the wrong direction. We just have to look at that as God using certain people to intervene, to bring people into his family.
Sam Rohrer:
And we’re pretty much right at the end here, Jeff, but in our previous discussions and even today, what you are doing is what we try to do. And that is if we don’t start with God and finish with God in his word. And ladies and gentlemen, can I say more concerned about in all things asking the question, what is God’s will, God’s way, God’s word. And Jeff, as you said, you asked your buddies in the military, where are you going and who’s directing your life? Ladies and gentlemen, if we are looking to the media, if we are looking to a man, if we’re looking to a policy, some changed regulation as being the answer, we’re in the wrong area. That’s man’s wisdom. So let us conclude with this teachable moment with what’s happened in DC absolutely fully resolved. No, let’s pray for those whose lives have been affected.
There were many believers we now come to know that we’re on that airlines a lot of families impacted. Let’s pray that they would come to a knowledge of the Lord and that would be a result. Let’s pray for those who are in positions of authority now in this new administration, that they operate in the fear of God. Godly wisdom, not man’s wisdom. That’s what we all can do, not at least one takeaway. Thanks for being with us today on this program. Jeff Nicklaus, thank you so much for being with me. God bless you. You are such an encouragement to so many ladies and gentlemen. Lord willing, we’ll see you back here tomorrow.
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