Faith in Turbulent Times: Navigating Crashes and Changes

Faith in Turbulent Times: Navigating Crashes and Changes

Feb. 7, 2025

Host: Dr. Isaac Crockett

Co-host: Hon. Sam Rohrer

Guest: Evangelist Dave Kistler

Note: This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program aired on 2/7/25. To listen to the podcast, click HERE.

Disclaimer: While reasonable efforts have been made to provide an accurate transcription, the following is a representation of a mechanical transcription and as such, may not be a word for word transcript. Please listen to the audio version for any questions concerning the following dialogue.

Isaac Crockett:

Welcome to the program. I’m Pastor Isaac Crockett, and on today is the Honorable Sam Rohr, president of the American Pastors Network. And then also we have one of our special hosts today, Dr. Dave Kissler, evangelist and founder of Hope Ministries and Hope to the Hill. And we’ve been wanting to have Dave on to talk about some of the things going on, especially outside of DC or in DC and things, but there’s just so much news every day right now. In fact, I heard NPR explaining this to their listeners today saying every day the president is doing so many things, we can’t keep up with all of it. And even by the time we try to address something, it might be just two or three days old and it sounds like old news. And so that’s kind of where we are too. There’s just so many things going on right now in the world, but especially in America with President Donald Trump back in the White House, and he has hit the road running.

I mean, he is every day doing a lot of things. Just seeing the signing of saying that biological males cannot compete in women’s sports. And to see the NCAA almost immediately accept that and say, let’s go with this to see the way that foreign adversaries as well as allies have been compelled to do things that we were told they wouldn’t do. I mean, there’s so many things happening, but it does seem like a higher level of respect coming daily events just hard to keep up with. And so much of this is happening in DC right now. Every day there’s confirmation hearings, there’s so much going on in dc. And so we have Dave here with us who has hope to the Hill and has been in DC a lot has people on the ground, has connections there. So we want to get into that. But then we also have these airplane crashes.

And again, Dave, your experience, what you’ve gone through personally and your own family tragedy. So we want to get there. But Dave, if I could ask you first maybe before we go into some of those things and comparing and contrasting some of this. One thing that you pointed out even before the election, I think you said it on the program in the fall, and you and I have talked, and you’ve said to this before and after the election, that Donald Trump, yes, he’s clearly far different than the former President Biden in all this, but he’s not our spiritual savior. He’s not going to deliver us and bring in our revival that way as far as spiritually our savior, even though he’s doing amazing things and you’re still taking opportunities. And that’s what I want to talk about is what you did in dc. You’re taking opportunities, what’s going on in the world, especially in DC and pointing people to Christ. Sam, you keep talking about the return to God and all of these things can be working together. But let’s start with you, Dave. Why is it so important right now that Bible believing Christians take our opportunities that we are getting to witness to people, to point to Christ? And why is that? Maybe we could say those are even more significant than political opportunities.

Dave Kistler:

Well, Isaac, let me say it’s a delight to be on the program with you today, and Sam always a delight to be with you. Yeah, there’s obviously a dramatic change in the climate of Washington dc. There’s a dramatic change in the climate, the entirety of the United States as I travel and no matter where I am, there is light, there is a brightness, there is an expectation, a hope in people’s hearts because things are changing so positively and so dramatically. All of that said, and you’re right, Isaac, I have said it lots of times, Donald Trump, while we greatly appreciate what he’s doing, he is not our savior. He is not our deliverer. Jesus Christ is both of those things. And what I think we need to do, and we try to do this at the inaugural event itself just a few weeks ago, we need to seize this space that we’re being given.

One of my pastor friends in South Carolina calls it a space of grace, and we need to seize this opportunity and take to the people everywhere that which is going to eternally change their life and by extension will dramatically spiritually alter the United States of America. And that’s the gospel of Jesus Christ. And if you look back to Josiah in the Old Testament, the reforming king, the king that became king when he was eight years old and then at the age of 16 began to seek the Lord and implement policy changes. They were incredibly positive for the nation of Israel. But simultaneous with it, you had the preaching of the prophet Jeremiah. And I think that distinction reform does not necessarily equal revival, though we are grateful for the reform. What we need though is a spiritual awakening. And the only thing that’ll bring that about is when people’s hearts are changed with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Isaac Crockett:

I love that, Dave, that idea of reform versus revival because the reforms that Josiah made it possible for the revival for the Bible to be, they went back to the Bible and it started from the top and came down. And so the grace of having a leader that said, well, let’s make some reforms. It did lead to give a chance for revival, and then it’s again, each of us individually we’re responsible to the Lord. But Sam on that line, and I’m so glad that Dave went that way with it. I think this is really where the biblical worldview comes into play. There are Christians and professing Christians who kind of say, you know what? The government that’s of the world and where the church we’re of the Lord. And so the two really shouldn’t be together. And some people will refuse to vote, refuse to have anything to do with anything political. Sam, what is our responsibility? And we don’t have a lot of time, so I’m putting you on the spot sort of, but Christian biblically a Christian, what is a Christian’s responsibility when it does come whether voting or being involved with the government?

Sam Rohrer:

Well, Isaac, the greater thing is as we talk about so much, a biblical worldview says, looking at life from God’s perspective, understanding when we talk about government, we say politics, it’s government, it’s civil authority. It’s a part of what God has established along with the individual and self-government and the parents, mom and dad, the family, government, then civil government, the political, and then ecclesiastical, church government, Romans 13 says that that’s God’s idea. And I think the key thing is those of us who believe in a biblical worldview must be anchored. And when we discuss and we put forth how we look at the world that we put this view in place and that is the ultimate authority to whom we will all give account is God the great judge of the world. Our founders believe that makes all the difference in the world as an individual.

I’m going to give an account that’s a father. I’m going to give an account as somebody who’s served in government, I’m going to give an account as someone who serves as a deacon in my church or preaches. I’m going to give an account under all of those jurisdictions, all are responsible to God above. And within that, Isaac is the understanding that all of those areas are of God’s idea. He lays out a prescription, a code of conduct, responsibilities, priorities that are be done. So if I want to know how to live as a father, I go to the scripture. If I want to know as an individual, I go to the scripture. If I want to know as a minister of God in government, Romans 13, what I ought to do, I go to scripture. If I want to look as a pastor or a deacon, how am I going to serve? It’s going to be according to what God says, Isaac. I believe that that is the most critical. And as we look at what’s going around now with change happening so fast, we understand again biblical worldview. God raises up and God puts down both individuals within nations and nations themselves, and all of them are there. They do the bidding of God and are for the purpose of the accomplishment of God’s plan of redemption, which ultimately centers on Israel, which is interestingly is in the center of news today.

Isaac Crockett:

Amen. Well, I am so glad we could start this way because we’re going to look at the difference between the Biden White House and the new President Trump, white House Trump 2.0, and I wanted to start out pointing to the Lord where ultimately our hope does come from, but we do need to be aware of what’s going on and it’s exciting times that we’re living in fast pace and there’s so much to cover. So we’re going to be back right after hearing from some of our partners. We’ll be back with you right here on Staying in the Gap today. Well, welcome back to the program if you haven’t realized there’s so much going on and it just seems impossible to keep up with it all. And so yes, we are going to have a lot of information already gone through a lot of information. We have both Dr.

Dave Kissler evangelist and somebody who not only travels the country but works in DC with Hope to The Hill as well as Sam Rohr, the Honorable Sam Rohr, president of American Pastors Network. And we are picking both of their brains because it’s so extraordinary and so incredible what has happened just in less than two weeks time. Last week, Sam, we were trying to figure out how to go over all that had happened in five days. Now we’ve doubled that. But Dave, you led an extraordinary outreach. I mean, hope to The Hill is an amazing ministry in and of itself, that God has blessed immensely, but you’ve been doing an outreach through Hope to the Hill and it has involved now other groups and it just seems to be building up kind of a snowball effect. And it’s really happened now for several inaugurations that you’ve been able to be in DC on the ground, and I would just love to have you maybe describe what happened at that event and then if you could maybe compare it to the other ones that you’ve done. I’d find that very, I think, helpful for all of us as it kind of sets the tone for where our nation is headed based on our leadership and what you saw at the inauguration.

Dave Kistler:

Well, again, Isaac, thank you so much for the opportunity to do that. Yes, we did the first outreach that you’re describing in 2017 when Trump was elected the first time, you’re looking at hundreds of thousands of people coming from all over the world to Washington DC and as an evangelist, I’m just going to be honest with you, that’s too big of a target to miss. So what we did in 2017 is printed up beautiful John and Romans, it’s the Gospel of John Book of Romans combined together in one booklet, has a beautiful full color cover on the front of a prior inauguration, and we distributed tens of thousands of those to attendees of the inauguration of Donald Trump in 2017. Now, we did not say it was an official souvenir of the inauguration because it was not, but it was a souvenir of the inauguration done by Hope to the Hill, partnering with Faith and Liberty, dear friends of ours there in our nation’s capital as well as our dear friend, Keith Davidson, Seed Line International out of Brazil, Indiana that assembled the booklets and have been a part of all that we’ve done really on Capitol Hill going all the way back to 2002.

So these are longstanding relationships, and so we partnered together and it was amazing because of the context we have on the hill. We were able to position people at the entrances to the inauguration there on the National Mall in 2017 and just capture the majority of the attendees by presenting these booklets to them. Again, doing it this time was different because at the last minute from our perspective, the last minute they decided to do everything inside because of the weather. And again, I’m just going to give my personal opinion, and it’s a very educated one, if I can word it that way. Weather was an issue, but I don’t think it was the issue. I think securing the event probably was what really drove everything indoors. And so because they announced that late, we had to scramble the last minute to adjust and everything was done down at the Capital One Center.

Of course they did the inaugural, the inauguration actually in the Capitol Rotunda, it was streamed over to the Capital One Center. That huge arena holds about 20,000 people. So we had our people positioned right outside the Capital One Center, capital One arena distributing the booklets. We were also out around various parts of the National Mall over at Union Station where there was an enormous crowd of people and we were just ministering to people all day long. And I will tell you this, Isaac, it’s always been very well received. Both Trump inaugurations, the people that come are very faith friendly. They’re not antagonistic at all, but you can be a nice person and not know Jesus and not be ready for eternity or you can be an ugly person and belligerent, but you don’t know Jesus and you’re not ready for eternity either way. People need the Lord.

And so that’s the way we approached it. It was so well received this time. Phenomenal. People would come back and say, Hey, can I have three or four more of those to give to my family? And so the word of God went out in a massive way. What was amazing to me, Isaac, was that we encountered people all throughout the day that said, so you folks are the ones that we heard about that are going to be distributing the gospel booklets. And I asked them, well, where did you hear about that? And they’d say, well, it was either on the news or I heard it maybe via social media. But the word got out, and I will tell you this, the DC police were amazing. The Capitol Hill police were amazing in helping facilitate this. We informed them of what we were doing. We didn’t have one problem, nothing close to it. They were just so accommodating. And so God’s at work right now, and because he is, we need to seize these opportunities to get the gospel as far and wide as we possibly can.

Isaac Crockett:

Well, that is amazing how God is doing that right there at the inauguration of the President of the United States, I was having a conversation with Pastor Aaron Cosby. Some of our listeners might remember. He’s been on pastor in North Carolina near you, Dave very involved in all that’s going on in the relief effort up there, and he was able to be on the ground with you and even at the Museum of the Bible, they were able to do a special gala. There’s galas going on at these inaugurations and to have one that was faith-based and worshiping God and also honored your son Nathan and his wife Amber Kissler, Aaron just said it was incredible. He saw one of the things that gave him hope for our nation, and I’m quoting from Aaron here. He said, there’s a remnant of people in DC who still love Jesus and spread the hope of the gospel on the hill.

And he went on from there and said it was something he’ll never forget. That I think as a pastor, as a Christian, as a Bible believer is exciting to see that going on in our nation’s capital at a historic time like this. Sam, last week, you and I were discussing just the first five days of Trump 2.0 and you kept using the word bold and in other words like courageous describing what he is doing. And again, even people who didn’t vote for him or who disagree with him, I think they can see and appreciate that he’s not only sticking to what he promised to do, but that he is showing forth strength in a time when the world needs leadership and strength. But could you maybe talk about, we keep hearing people talk about the Trump effect, that Donald Trump taking a strong stand is leading maybe some of these other presidents of smaller countries to take stands. And could you contrast that with what we’ve been talking about for the last four years with the Joe Biden who just didn’t show up for things? I mean, he wouldn’t take questions, he wouldn’t interact the way that other presidents have. I would love just to hear what you think about that and kind of a compare and contrast even just the way Dave was able to compare and contrast between the inaugurations

Sam Rohrer:

Isaac, I’ll take a shot at it. Some not difficult, but when I think of this and I think it’s appropriate to do, and Dave great commentary on what you’re doing, God bless all the effort that you did right there. So that was a great report. But Isaac back on that. When I think of the compare of the two, I think of in three aspects, and I’ll get my thoughts on it. One is person or personality of Donald Trump versus Joe Biden. The second is the policies of Trump versus Biden, and the third is the process that is used to implement the policies. Now here’s my first thought personality and person, Donald Trump to the person of Joe Biden is, I mean, there’s no comparison here it is. I think Trump is visibly aggressive and gives the appearance of strength but controlled by no one else. Biden to me, gave the appearance of being visibly weak and docile and gave the impression of weakness and being fully controlled by someone else.

That’s how I look at the person when it comes to the policies. I think Trump’s policies are announced, they’re visible and always with significant bravado driven by, and I think this is key pragmatism, I think controls his decision making. Biden and the previous connected administration such as Obama and going all the way back to Clinton, I’m going to say we’re no less sweeping and fundamentally altering in their impact, though they tended to make their changes more subtly and deceptively and to be driven more by ideology than pragmatism. Then the third one is I think when it comes to process, Trump’s process is to negotiate through often bravado and unbounded threats or concepts, but ultimately as a plan to and kind of bring it back, never really expecting to be way out there and therefore appear moderate. Biden and his predecessors, Obama and Clinton. Their process was to simply, I think, bribe compromise and promise power and money through always corrupted means as we are seeing now through USAID and so forth. And they did that to those they wanted to persuade or bring on board, but I think for both a Biden or a Trump for both, the goal is to control and to achieve their vision of what they think ought to be. So that’s how I would really sum up the compare contrast. A lot of comparison, a lot of similarities, a lot of differences. But we are witnessing something truly I think right now historical.

Isaac Crockett:

Wow. And I wish I had more time for both of you to ask more questions. We’re coming up to our break, but I would just say this, pray for President Trump. Even Dave, as you were pointing out having the inauguration in the Capitol, the last time that was done was with President Reagan who also had been shot in an assassination attempt. So it seems to me like they’re learning from history and there are real dangers. We had Ben Ney attorney for ACLJ who has represented Donald Trump on numerous occasions, and he said, this is not a time for us to sit back as Christians. This is a time for us to get on our knees and pray even more, pray for our President and those around him, pray for those who agree with us and those who disagree with us, that they would be humbled before God and lead our nation the right way following the Constitution and the laws, but ultimately following the law of God.

And so as you’re talking Sam and Dave talking about these opportunities, I just love that Dave, that you were able to hand out these thousands and thousands of tracks at the inauguration and to see this contrast of what we’ve been going through, what we have now, all of that leads us to our knees to pray for our nation and pray and ask the Lord, what can we do? Well, when we come back from this time out, I want to talk to Dave about something very personal, and that’s these recent airplane tragedies. And of course, we all know what Dave has gone through personally in his family, and that right now can strike a lot of fear for many of us. But talking to Dave, we want to see what he sees from this and point us back to the Lord who is our strength and our hope.

Well, if you’re just joining us on Pastor Isaac Crockett, and I’ve been talking with two of our original co-hosts here, Dr. Dave Kistler and the Honorable Sam Rohrer, and we’ve been comparing and contrasting the last administration that we’ve known that we’ve been under for four years to just the first couple of weeks under the Trump 2.0 administration. And it really is incredible, and it’s been incredible to hear even from Dave, the opportunity to give the gospel in. And David, there’s so much you have going on there, even as I was mentioning Pastor Aaron Cosby has mentioned getting to meet so many people that are right there in that hub of what’s going on in our nation that do love the Lord. And so I’m thankful for both of you and for this great conversation we’ve been having. For those of you listening, if you’re just now tuning in, this is one of those, I think almost every day you could listen to the program again and again because there’s so much we have to cover.

But I would also encourage you if you want to do that, you can listen to our archives online, you can download our app, and then also we have coming up the week of Valentine’s Day, so after this weekend, special things going on in the day of Valentine’s Day will be a special live broadcast from one of our churches in one of the radio channels that broadcast our program. And so I would highly encourage you to be listening to that. Dr. Dave Kistler will be up here in the Pennsylvania area and all week, and then he and Sam and I think Gary, so really the kids that I used to work with that were involved in gangs and things, they would talk about the OGs, the guys that were the head honchos, they called them the OGs, the original gangsters. So the original gangsters, the trio of Sam and Gary and Dave, I think are going to be together on Valentine’s Day.

So some special things going on and we want to talk about that. But as we look at all these news events, Donald Trump is doing so many things that’s been dominating a lot of it. But another thing that many people that I know in my church but also just in my community have said, oh no, what’s going on? What do we do? Just this morning, I was at an appointment with one of my dogs at the veterinarian. People were talking about this to me, my mechanic was talking about it, but these airplane crashes, this collision between the Black Hawk helicopter and this commercial airliner, and then here in the Philadelphia region not far from where our headquarters are. A plane went down after this little girl had come to the Shriners Hospital. And it really has, I think, struck fear in a lot of people. And there’s a lot of maybe confusion that often happens after an airplane crash trying to figure things out. And there’s this, we’ve all been horrified to see this unfold, but unfortunately Dave, you and Betsy know this firsthand more than most people would. What this is kind of like to go through this as the family. And so Dave, there’s so many things that we could talk about, but let me just ask you, when you first heard those news reports coming out about these tragedies, the first one in DC of course, what were the thoughts and emotions that came to mind given your recent personal experience losing Nathan and Amber?

Dave Kistler:

Well, again, Isaac, thank you for asking. And before I say anything else, to answer your question, I’ve never been called an OG, an original gangster before, but I’ll wear that as a badge of honor if that’s okay. But it’s a delight to work with you and Sam and Gary and all the guys that are part and the ladies that are part of this wonderful stand in the gap today ministry. Yeah, it was a plethora of emotions that ran through us. I’m going to share something here right at the outset and then I’ll talk just very briefly about Betsy and I’s emotions maybe as a couple. But one of the things that struck me early on when the incident occurred was the amazing similarities between President Reagan’s presidency. He was elected in 1980. He went into office in 1981, he was inaugurated, and then in January 13th, 1982, there was the Air Florida jet crash that could not get lifted off the ground there at Reagan National Airport because of icing on the wings, and then actually struck the 14th Street Bridge broken half and sank beneath the waters of the Potomac.

There’s amazing stories that came out of that of heroism, and it was the same week, not the same day, but the same week that this happened under Donald Trump’s administration. Both Reagan had been shot, Trump had been shot. Both of them have airline accidents at Reagan National Airport that come on the same week. It’s just a lot of similarities that are just probably too striking to not at least talk about. But when it happened, having gone through what we went through back on July 26th of this past year, this past summer, all kinds of emotions came to the forefront. And I will tell you right up front, we began praying for all of those families. 67 precious people lost their lives on the commercial airliner. The regional jet in three lost their lives from that Blackhawk helicopter. And unless you’ve walked this road, unless you have dealt with the kind of loss that we have dealt with human loss but not lost eternally because Nathan and Amber and the others on that airplane that went down on July 26th we’re professing believers in Jesus Christ.

So there’s no eternal loss, but there is a personal loss down here. And so we could relate to everything that was going on. It’s just on a grander scale, a larger scale. I mean, when I use the word grander, a much larger scale, when you have 67 people perish on one airliner and then three others from or total of 67, it’s just a larger number of people. And so you’re just multiplying the heartache and the pain and the loss, and so it causes you to walk back through your own personal tragedy, but you walk through it a little differently. You walk through it as a believer knowing you will see your loved ones again. It causes you to pray and pray in earnest and hold up those that had family members that died in that tragic crash. And I do have friends who had family members on the commercial airliner and actually one friend who had a family member on the Blackhawk as well. So man, it just drove us to our knees in diligence supplication for all those that lost.

Sam Rohrer:

And Dave, I’d like to continue with this a little bit with you. I had had a pilot on the program with me on Wednesday, Jeff Nicholas, he’s a believer. He was a 20 year army vet part of the hundred first Airborne Division, black Hawk pilot over 5,000 hours of flying. And he was the guy that was a part of the team from which the movie Black Hawk Down came. And we were talking about process and how he would view that event. And we walked through a number of things and why understanding the what and the why of an investigation was so important in the process. But that was a process thing. If I could, Dave, go into this more on the personal, continue on that side with you, and that is this, most of the news is out there concerns. What about this? What about that with the qualifications, all that kind of thing. And it leaves out a lot of the personal, but to what extent is it important for those family members who lost people, family members in this event? How important is it and why is it important to get to the bottom of why and how as a part of closure, how did you walk through that and how should we pray for people as they walk through that in this regard?

Dave Kistler:

Well, Sam, we’re still walking through it, and it’s a great question and I appreciate you asking it. Obviously, when you get that call, like we did on the evening of July 26th that a plane has gone down and the initial report was that the people on the ground, or at least those that watched things from radar and so on, just could not possibly believe that there would be any survivors. And then we got confirmation of that much later in the evening. Obviously at first, it’s something that you think is a bad dream from which you’re going to wake up. And then very quickly you understand this is not a bad dream, this is a new reality for us. And of course, it is a very tearful reality. You go through all the emotions and you ask all the why questions, why now, what would’ve allowed this to happen?

And you begin searching for answers, and you do need those answers. And I’m just being honest with you, Sam, we don’t have them yet. We’ll talk maybe a little bit later about the processes with NTSB and all that kind of thing, but we’re still looking for answers, still waiting for answers. And even after a year and a half, perhaps total from the time the accident occurred until maybe some final conclusion is drawn, even after that time, we may not have final answers. And so for those of us who know Christ is Savior, we can clinging to the Lord and by faith understand that though we would never choose to walk this path ourselves, God has a purpose for it. And I know when I say that some people may maybe think, well, what kind of purpose could God have? Well, when your loved one knows the Lord and they’re in heaven and they’re safe, and then you begin to see how God has taken what happened on July 26th and expanded and created an enormous opportunity for people that would normally never, it happened today at lunch, two men came up to me.

I really didn’t recognize either one of them, but they knew who I was because they’ve followed the tragedy. It gives you an opportunity to share Jesus with people, and we have to just view it that way, that God had a plan, he has a plan. We don’t see the full end of that plan yet. We may not see it fully until we get to heaven, but right now we’re getting powerful and wonderful gentle whispers from God as to what he’s up to. And it’s a powerful thing to advance his glory and to advance his gospel. So knowing what caused it will bring some degree of closure. We are not there yet. I know those families that lost loved ones there in DC at Reagan National. I’m not sure how long it’ll be for them until they have anything remotely close to an answer, but it does help to know what happened. We’re just not at that place yet, even ourselves.

Isaac Crockett:

Wow. I’m thinking in my own family, there was a loved one who went down in a plane crash and there was never a clear answer. And then a friend of mine, there is an answer. He had a plane crash, and yet there’s still sometimes a lack of closure, something about that. But we turn to the Lord and when we come back, I want to talk to you, Dave, even more about that too. But so many things to look at and to praise the Lord for even in spite of some of these tragedies that have happened, so many things that we can praise the Lord. And as Christians, we can find our peace and our strength through Jesus Christ, not through what’s happening day by day. We’re going to take another time out and wrap up our program when we come back.

Welcome back to our program. I’ve been talking with a couple of the, as I called them in the last section, the OGs of Stand in the Gap Media, and that’s Sam Rohrer, the Honorable Sam Rohrer, president of the American Pastors Network, and evangelist Dave Kistler, Dr. Kistler and Sam and Dr. Gary Dull over the three originals and are going to be Lord willing back together on Valentine’s Day for a live broadcast. So you’ll want to tune in every next week, but on next Friday, special time together. But Dave, I have so many questions I want to try to get in. I can’t get all the ones that I wanted to get in with picking your brain and Sam, your brain with what’s going on with the changes in our government. But I do really want to go back to what you were talking about, David, the last, so many people have talked to me about the plane crashes, and it kind of feels like one of those moments where a trial of faith or things, and I think of HG Stafford who wrote the hymn, it is Well With My Soul upon seeing the spot where the vva, the passenger boat that had gone down where his daughters had drowned.

And many people are saying things, even Christians starting to doubt God’s goodness or God’s sovereignty. And so Dave, as an evangelist, when people maybe ask you that question, how can you be so certain of God’s will and what he’s doing? And I look at all that Nathan and Amber their life stood for and how even in their death they have been an amazing testimony. I don’t know how many people they’ve touched even through their death, probably maybe even more than through their lives. I mean, it’s just incredible. But I would love to have you talk as an evangelist, how you answer that question when people start to doubt God in light of these tragedies like this.

Dave Kistler:

Well, let me share this with you, Isaac. A couple of weeks ago, I was preaching in Salisbury, a dear friend of mine who’s a music leader, worship leader at a church where I’ve ministered at many, many times, sat down on the front row beside me before a service started. And he said, Dave, he said, I’ve been reading this week about the life of Enoch and the fact that the scripture says Enoch walked with God and he was not, for God took him. In other words, Enoch didn’t go to heaven through the avenue of death. God just took him straight to heaven. And a lot of people know that story. But he said, what I want to point out to you, Dave, something he said I’d never noticed, which is a wonderful observation. He said, Enoch was about 300 years old when God took him. But that was in a day when people were living to 800 and 900 years old.

And his point was Enoch was about a third as old as most of the people were living at that time. And his point was our son Nathan was 34, Amber was 35. They were about a third the age of what a lot of people are living to thanks to good eating habits and good health habits and good medicine and all that kind of thing, about a third of the amount of time a lot of people are living today. And he said, I just got to thinking about that, that God had accomplished in England’s life everything that he wanted and just said, no, come on home to me. And to be sure, Isaac, Nathan, and Amber live more in their 34 and 35 years respectively than most people do in three lifetimes. But the way we view it, the way we have to view it is God was done with them here and they’d accomplished the mission for which he had placed them on this earth.

And then he just said, come on home. And then Greg Stuby Congressman Greg Stuby from Florida at the memorial in DC that members of Congress wanted to do for Nathan and Amber. He stood up and he quoted Isaiah 57, 1 powerful passage, the righteous Perth, and no man layeth it to heart. In other words, godly people pass off the scene every day, and the majority of the world doesn’t even take note. But the rest of the verse that he stressed goes on and says this, not knowing that the Lord and I’m paraphrasing has taken them away, that is the righteous. He’s taken them away to spare them from the evil that is to come. And Congressman Stewy said, the only thing I can figure, because he said, I’ve wrestled with this because I miss my friend Nathan. And he began to weep at that point. But he said, the only thing I can figure is that God took Nathan and Amber away because there’s something he did not want them to have to go through that we may have to, for whatever reason, it was God’s will.

And so that’s what we take great comfort in, great solace in that God has a plan, God has a purpose. And then what you alluded to, it has been tens of thousands of cards, emails, texts, phone calls that have come in and just every week we get something from someone. A lady just wrote and said, beautiful stationary, beautiful handwritten letter. She said, when you gave the invitation, Mr. Kistler there at the Museum of the Bible, there were eight that responded to the invitation among the memorial conducted for members of Congress. But she said, I was the ninth because I called on the Lord while watching it online and receive Christ as my savior, and I wanted to write and tell you about it. Well, something like that’s happening two or three times a week. It was happening daily, multiple times a day in the days right after the tragedy and the memorial services. Now, it’s not as frequent, but it’s still happening. So all we’re saying is, Lord, you have a plan. We trust you. And trusting God doesn’t mean I know what God’s doing. Trusting God means I know God knows what he’s doing. And so we have to, over 40 years, we’ve seen and prove himself true in 40 years of ministry and even more years than that in the life that God’s given us. And so if we could trust him, then we can trust him now.

Isaac Crockett:

Amen. Well, as we wrap up this program where we’ve been looking at our faith in turbulent times with these crashes and with the changes, I want to ask you and Sam, and I know there’s not much time, but just for some of your thoughts as we look at these changes in our nation going on, you just talked about God’s hand of sovereignty in life and death. I get worried even seeing that President Trump is going to be the first President to go to the Super Bowl down in New Orleans where they just had this terrorist attack. It’s like, oh, no, but we know that all of our lives are in God’s hand. And so Dave, just as you sum up any final thoughts on what we’ve been talking about today, maybe things that have caught your attention with all the changes going on, maybe positive things, maybe things that you say, we really need to pray about this. Just any last final thoughts, and then Sam, the same question.

Dave Kistler:

Well, I’ll say this, Isaac, I echo your concern. Obviously, the dramatic changes that are taking place is making, I believe the wicked one himself angry and making a lot of human beings angry. And so that makes President Trump the target of a potential assassination attempt. He’s already sustained several already during the campaign, so we need to pray for him. But the bottom line is this, our life is in the hands of the Lord and we trust him. My dad used to say it this way. He said, son, you need to remember this. You are invincible until God is through with you. So move out in courage and in boldness, not foolishness, but move out in boldness and courage and live the life that God wants you to live, trusting him. And so we take the appropriate precautions, we adopt certain protocols for safety. We do all of those things. The horse is prepared, the scripture says, against the day of battle, but safety is of the Lord. We take all the protocols seriously. We do what we can do to keep ourselves safe, but ultimately our trust is in the Lord himself.

Isaac Crockett:

Amen. Sam, if you could give us your final thoughts, and if there’s time, also close us in prayer.

Sam Rohrer:

Okay, Isaac, this is a thought that I have. I’m drawn to the Apostle Paul in two Corinthians, chapter five. He talks about we are in this flesh, this human body, and we groan. And then he says in verse seven, for here we walk by faith, not by sight, and we’re confident. I say, willing rather to be absent from this body and to be present with the Lord. Death is not a fear of the believer, but I think, Isaac, this is the thing. What do we as believers do? What’s our motivation in these days? Well, it’s this knowing therefore the terror of the Lord. We persuade men about what but their need of Jesus Christ, Isaac as believers in those listening to the programmer. Now, if you know the Lord is your savior, we don’t fear death. No, not at all. Because when we cease to breathe here, we open our nostrils in heaven and we breathe heavenly air. What a thing. But those around us, do they have that hope? Most of the world does not, Isaac. That’s how I would leave it. Let us be motivated when we see death occur, when we see change to say, are we prepared for what is coming next? And with that, we’re out of time. I’ll turn it back to you.

Isaac Crockett:

Amen. Well, what a great way to wrap this up and to put our minds at peace and at rest in Jesus Christ, we focus on him. We look up. And Dr. Dave Kistler, thank you so much for being with us. Honorable Sam Rohrer. Thank you both so much for what you do, for what you are doing, and for being the program today. For all of you listening, please continue to pray for the ministries here at the American Pastors Network and stand in the gap media. And until next time, stand in the gap for truth, wherever you are.