Not a “Godless” Constitution: New Hampshire is One Proof

Host: Hon. Sam Rohrer

Guest: David New

Note: This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program aired on 4/23/26. To listen to the podcast, click HERE.

Disclaimer: While reasonable efforts have been made to provide an accurate transcription, the following is a representation of a mechanical transcription and as such, may not be a word for word transcript. Please listen to the audio version for any questions concerning the following dialogue.

Sam Rohrer:

Hello and welcome to this Thursday edition of Stand in the Gap today. And it’s also our bimonthly emphasis on the Constitution, American history and current events. My special guest as always on this emphasis is David New. His expertise is he’s a constitutional attorney. He’s an historian, he’s an author and a public speaker. And we’ve been doing this program for many, many years now. And it’s a real joy to have him twice a month. Now, as we approach our nation’s 250th anniversary, and that’s coming up very soon, what a time that is. 250 years is an amazing thing. And we’re all going to be hearing more and more about it. Many big things are planned and are being planned by many people and organizations. And depending on their positions and their perspectives, because they vary, some will seek to highlight this time what they think is important.

Actually, they all will do that. There are those in our nation who are thinking about making this time, not so much as a look back with a goal of revisiting in detail, for instance, those principles of self-governance with hope of reinstituting them, but actually closing a chapter and launching a new vision for the next years. And that is why, and you say, “Well, is that really true?” Yeah, it’s true. That’s why there’s been so much commentary by multiple past presidents. For instance, like George Walker Bush, Herbert Walker Bush at first. Do you remember when he made his famous speech before Congress and talked about the glories of the coming new world order? Remember that? Nearly every succeeding president offered their vision of a new America and new world order. Our current president speaks much about breaking the old order and establishing the new world order as he envisions it.

The World Economic Forum Business Elite have been talking about for a long time, a great reset and a new order as they envision it. The major countries of the world are all looking at this year, perhaps this 2026 year, as perhaps being a year of major transition. Now, I just said that because we’re going to look back today, but in some future program, maybe on Monday of next week, depending, I’m trying to put this together right now. I want to talk about what is happening in the change of governance and approach to governance, particularly as it involves new world order and that kind of thing, because it really does tie into what’s happening today. It also ties into biblical prophecy. But that to the side, today we’re going to look back as that is always a good thing to do all the way through the scripture in the Old Testament.

God told Israel, “Look back. Remember, remember, reflect back on what’s happened.” We’re going to do that today because that certainly applies to when we look at our Constitution and key events that happened right prior to the adoption of our Constitution following the American Revolution, and particularly evidence that does not suggest, but proves that our documents as in our early Constitution, state constitutions and our early colonies that led the way to our US Constitution was not at all secular, not at all, but in every regard was grounded firmly in the respectful view of God and with Bible, the word of God clearly in mind. So with that being stated, the title I’ve chosen for today is this, not a godless constitution. New Hampshire is one proof. So get an idea of where we’re going to share and what we’re going to say here today. But David, before we get into all of this, I think it’ll be a very informative program.

Would you like to make a brief statement before we begin our discussion about the Constitution? We’ve been doing this recent programs and gives people a little insight into your thinking, but what’s on your mind here today?

David New:

Yes, sir. I would. And welcome to everybody today. Blessings to you. I’m so glad you’re with us. What is the most powerful drug in the world? What is it? Is it fentanyl? Is it LSD? Is it heroin? Is it cocaine? No. The most powerful drug on this planet is oil. That is the most powerful drug in the world. Now, oil may not have mind altering characteristics, but it is extremely addictive. Very addictive. Life on this planet, as it exists now, would not exist without it. And that answers the question. Why has Iran been able to do to us for 47 years killing us and we basically did nothing about it? It is because of oil and the strait of Hamus. That’s the reason, and that’s unfortunate. What is being decided by this war with Iran? This war is a little bit different. What’s going to be decided?

What is going to be decided by this war with Iran is what will the weapons be used in the next war? Will Iran have nuclear weapons? That’s what’s being decided. They will use them when they get them, and they will use it on Boston, Atlanta, New York, Chicago. They’ll use them because they hate us. Our nuclear weapons are not a deterrent to them, unlike with the Soviet Union. They are not a deterrent because they are radical religious fanatics who are waiting for the Mahdi. And even if the Mati doesn’t protect them from our nuclear weapons, they are prepared to die for the Mahdi. Ladies and gentlemen, I know the President did a very bad job developing public support for this war, but this war is making a big, big decision in your life in many ways.

Sam Rohrer:

And David, I didn’t know what you were going to say, but I would say yes, at the middle of it, and we’ve shared on this program, ladies and gentlemen, that oil is right at the center. Now, it could be, David, as you’ve just talked about, we know that this oil and this war has a lot to do with the dollar and whether or not the United States can retain its position, although greatly weakened already as reserve currency, which is tied directly to the dollar, ladies and gentlemen. And if Iran as the world’s third largest supplier of oil and reserves can sell in Chinese won, which they are now doing, instead of the dollar, it threatens the strength, the monetary strength of the system of governance that we now know, the Western approach that hinges on the dollar. So the oil and how it gets to the world, I’m going to submit is part of what is yet to be established under this war, but the oil must flow.

And we already know because the oil has stopped flowing to a large extent. It’s affecting economies all around the world. It’s affecting the potential supply of food and everything needed for manufacturing. So yes, David, there is an addiction to oil. And you put your finger on that, ladies and gentlemen, there’s a lot of ways we could come at it, but that is really at the heart of it. So Dave, that’s an interesting take. Thanks for sharing that. All right, ladies and gentlemen, stay with us. We’re going to move now into the focus of today’s program, not a godless constitution. New Hampshire is one proof, and you’ll see how this all makes sense. Stay with it. We’ll be right back. Well, based on general publicly available research, and I’m just going to share a few things here that I uncovered in preparation for today’s program, that will help lay the foundation for what David is going to share.

My guest today on this bimonthly emphasis on the Constitution is David New. He’s going to share some evidence from the past, we’re looking back, and how the godly connection actually really did exist prior to our constitution, and that’ll make sense in a minute. But when it comes to those organizations, which have most effectively, I’m going to say, sought to separate God and biblical principles from governance in our constitutional republic, it would be these three. And this is what, if one were to do a search, this is how it comes up. The number one that some would say would be the most impactful in trying to separate God from godly government and the Bible from anything having to do with defining law and justice and that kind of thing would be Americans United for separation of church and state. AU, that’s how it usually referred to.

They were founded in 1947, 1948. Their core argument is that any governmental reference to God, Christianity, or biblical morality and law threatens religious liberty itself, especially they say for minorities and others. Then there’s the ACLU, the American Civil Liberties Union. They were founded in 1920. Their core argument contends that government must not endorse religion, encourage religious observance, or base policy on any kind of religious morality. The third, and I’m just giving the top three, but these are the main three, is the freedom from religion foundation founded in 1978. Their core argument is that government’s invocation of God is an unconstitutional endorsement. Religious language, they say harms non-believers and minorities, and theistic references violate freedom of conscious. This is what they say, and that referring to … And here’s where I wanted to go. They say that referring to historical religious language represents outdated privilege. Those are their terms.

And their strongest claim is endorsement test. They say if a reasonable observer sees government as favoring belief in God, the Constitution has been violated. Now, David, I just shared some of those things because we’ve referred to all of these organizations and past programs at one point or another, but before you present the evidence from New Hampshire, you’re going to get into that because it’s so significant. I’d like for you to respond to the Freedom From Religious Foundation’s argument that referring to historical religious language represents outdated privilege, because that’s what you’re going to do. You’re going to refer back, but what do they mean by outdated privilege? And any comments on that before you get into New Hampshire?

David New:

I’d like to make a comment about that. Just before I do that, I want to make a comment about reserve currency. Why is that so important? It gives the United States enormous economic advantages. It makes us as rich as we are. We wouldn’t be this rich without it. And God gave, in my opinion, reserve currency status to the United States because that helped funded missionaries throughout the world. If reserve currency in the United States fails and dies out, get rid of all of your cash. Hold property, gold, silver, diamonds, whatever, but get rid of the cash because a thousand dollars will become $10 overnight and we’ll be on our way to being like Great Britain today.

Sam Rohrer:

Okay. David, you threw that in there and ladies and gentlemen, that was not the focus of today’s program. However, it does tie in. And so David, thanks for saying that. Now let’s get into comments on the Freedom from Religion Foundation and their view that it’s not really appropriate to refer back to examples or refer to religious language in the past because it doesn’t apply to today. What about that?

David New:

I listen to the Freedom From Religion Group every single week. They come on in this state on Tuesdays at four o’clock in the afternoon, their weekly show. I listened to a week. I’ve been listening to them for years on their hour long show. Very interesting to see how other people see the world. Now, in response to their claims that God has nothing to do with America, which is their basic theme, I found 95 courts throughout American history that said the United States quote unquote was a Christian nation, 95 courts. I list them in my book that is at the publishers. Seven cases are from the United States Supreme Court. Seven cases are from US circuit courts. One case is from the US Court of Claims and four cases are from the US district courts. The state courts make up 76 of those cases. 95. Ladies and gentlemen, a country has, when it comes together to become a nation, it has a heritage.

It has a history. It has an ideological foundation. And in this case, in the United States, that foundation, that heritage is Christianity. These people are basically walking away from American history, and that’s why they’re wrong.

Sam Rohrer:

Okay, David, now let’s move into your example. You provide, you’re an attorney, you’ve done a lot of presenting of evidence in the past. So evidence against a secular theory, which is what folks like Freedom from Religious Foundation does for the Constitution. You believe that the state of New Hampshire provides an excellent piece of evidence to support the fact that the secularists are wrong. Would you share that?

David New:

The state of New Hampshire is a fascinating example of why secularism was not on the radar scope for the framers of the Constitution and for the 13 states that ratified the US Constitution. For one thing, they never even used the word secular. But beside that, this country, the Constitution of the United States is an Article seven that it takes nine states to make the Constitution effective and ratified within those nine states and then as each state comes along and ratifies it, then they’ve joined the Federal Union. Do you know what the Ninth State was? It was New Hampshire. And what was the key event that made ratification by New Hampshire to become the ninth state? What was the key event? It was a sermon. A sermon is what caused this country to ratify the US Constitution. The sermon was titled The Republic of the Israelites: An Example to the American States.

And it was given on June 5th by Samuel Langdon, and he was related to one of the signers of the Constitution. And on June 16th, he gave a sermon on June 5th, 1788. On June 16th, 200 copies of his sermon were printed and distributed for general use. And that means that without … It’s highly likely that most, if not all, of the 104 people that voted on ratification in the state of New Hampshire got that sermon. And then what happened? On June 21st, 1788, just a few days right after the sermon, New Hampshire became the ninth state to ratify the US Constitution. A sermon was key to ratifying and putting the Constitution into legal effect, a sermon. Now it’s interesting, it says the Republic of the Israelites, an example to the American states. Early Americans saw America as a kind of reenactment of Israel’s early history before the Kings came around, before King saw.

During that period, after they entered into the promised land and before the Saul becomes King, during that period, the period of the judges, that is where a lot of Americans saw a link between us and them. We were playing out their story, and it’s fascinating. Now, why is New Hampshire not only so bad for our secular friends to prove them wrong, but here’s the problem. New Hampshire had an official church. The congregational church was the official church of New Hampshire, the congregational church, and it stayed that way long after the Constitution was ratified. It stayed that way until 1819.

Our states were allowed to have, or not allowed, but retained the power, retained the authority under the US Constitution to have an official government church if they wanted one, and New Hampshire was one of them. The First Amendment didn’t bar it because the First Amendment had no jurisdiction over the state governments. That wouldn’t change until 1940. Now, official government religions like the Congregational Church of New Hampshire are a bad idea. They’re bad for religious freedom. It’s good for the majority, but not everybody wants to be a member of the congregational church, so it’s bad for minorities too. Very bad. They did get rid of it. They saw the light and they got rid of their official government religion in 1819.

Sam Rohrer:

Okay, David, the time is up. We got to go. So ladies and gentlemen, the point being, it was a sermon. It was a pastor who preached a sermon

Based on scripture to persuade New Hampshire that brought in the Constitution. We’ll go further into this in the next section. Well, if you just happen to tune in to today’s program, thanks for being on board. We’re halfway through the program right now. My special guest is recurring guest David New, a constitutional attorney, is a historian and public speaker. And we meet together like this with some aspects, some always a connection to the Constitution and some degree. And you can’t talk about that until you talk also about some aspect of American history and more, and all this from a biblical worldview. A theme today is this, not a godless constitution. And then we said, New Hampshire is one proof. And David just shared that about a Pastor Samuel Langdon, who made a sermon and 200 copies were distributed. And from that, then New Hampshire became the ninth or the majority, the nine out of the 13 colonies, nine required to adopt officially the US Constitution.

That became a reality, but it was precipitated by the individual.

Samuel Langdon, who happened to be involved in government. He was a delegate and some other things took place there in that state at that point, but he was pastor and he used biblical argumentation. So that’s a real difficult matter for the secularist of our day, the freedom from Religion Foundation, the ACLU and others who say that God in the Bible had no role because while the secularists of our day, including the various organizations, created to revise history and I’m going to say surgically remove God or any biblical foundational discussion from the discussion of our various state constitutions and our US constitution, like those organizations I mentioned, their contention and their argumentation could be no further from the truth. And that’s what David, you said in the last segment. In fact, as I researched additionally for today’s program, I found that there were actually two primary expositors of biblical truth that greatly impacted the development in the discussion and the narrative regarding the Constitution.

One was the Christian minister, you talked about Samuel Langdon. He did hail from New Hampshire, was more of Puritan thought. History tells us he was also a former president of Harvard College, no slouch. He was quite an individual. The other was also a pastor, ordained congregational minister. His name was Samuel West. Now, history tells us that West was known as a political theologian. Langdon strove, he made the point for a stronger central government. Samuel West used Romans 13 to argue for a more decentralized government and limits and more. Historians record that together, and I would agree from what I read and what I have found, that these two, these two individuals, Samuel Langdon and Samuel West, show that the founders and the founding debated that the whole debate was not the Bible versus secularism to the contrary. It was actually the Bible versus the Bible to competing theological visions of government.

That is totally different, David, than what the seculars would tell us. So I’ll go to you on this. Did Samuel Langdon believe we needed a stronger central government requiring a document like the US Constitution? Give that perspective first and then we’ll have you kind of compare contrast West with Langdon.

David New:

All right. One thing I would like to say very briefly about a hundred number of the copies of the Constitution. When it came time for New Hampshire to vote for president of the United States, there was a little bit less than 1,800 potential voters. So those 200 sermons copies covered at least 10% of the voting population. And of the 104 people who voted to ratify either pro or against on the Constitution, it would cover them 100% if they got a hold of the sermon if it was made available to them. One of the most interesting things about New Hampshire is its history. I’m going to very briefly give it. There was this big, horrible English civil war between Charles In the Parliament and Oliver Cromwell, and that went on between 1642 to 1651. But here’s where New Hampshire comes in. When Charles II comes to the throne, his father had been executed, Charles I.

When he comes to the throne and reestablishes the monarchy in England, he saw Massachusetts as a very serious threat because Massachusetts was Puritan, and it was the Puritans who caused the Civil War in England, the great English Civil War. So he decided, “We’ve got to reduce the power of Massachusetts. They are Puritans and we don’t like them. We’re Anglicans.” So what does he do? He issues a royal charter to New Hampshire in 1679 for the specific purpose to reduce the influence and power of the Puritans in Massachusetts. That’s how that state got started. Now, when we look at this sermon, listen to this. This is what’s in this sermon by Samuel Langdon. He says, “If I’m not mistaken, instead of the 12 tribes of Israel, we may substitute the 13 states of the American Union and see an application.” So you see they’re looking to the Bible how to create their government and then comes this interesting quote, end the sermon.

Does the United States need a stronger central government? And what is the argument for the Constitution that he made as that sermon that helped ratify the US Constitution? It is the book of Judges, the 17th chapter, and the sixth verse. Now, as you hear this verse, you have heard it many times before, many times. Every time, many times that you hear a sermon about the Book of Judges, you’re going to most likely hear this verse in that sermon. And I want you to know how many times have you heard it, and how many times did you know it was used to help ratify the US Constitution? Let me read the verse. In those days, there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eye. That’s interesting. He is using that verse, which I have heard at least a dozen times whenever I hear a sermon about the Book of Judges.

I’ve heard that verse many times, and many times on other applications, I did not know that that verse was used to help ratify the US Constitution. These people who think that religion had nothing to do with America are a little bit off. Here’s what Samuel Langan said in his sermon about the secular state. See if you can find the secular state in this quote. He said, “The Israelites may be considered as a pattern to the world in all ages and from them, we may learn what will exalt our character and what will depress and bring us to ruin.” He believes that the Bible is not only good for America to follow, he’s saying the world’s nations should look to the scripture for the kind of governments they should

Sam Rohrer:

Have. David, that is excellent. Ladies and gentlemen, I’m just going to throw … We don’t have time to go into all of this, but the other individual, David, that I referenced was Samuel West and the point here being you gave the basis for Samuel Langdon. Samuel West argued strongly from Romans 13 and he argued that, yes, all authority comes from God, but not all rulers are legitimate. He emphasized civil power delegated by the people. He said scripture permits resistance to tyranny. He’s the one who said concentrated power invites corruption and more. So his argument was theological. It was all Bible, never secular Bible. You don’t have much time on this, but in short, how did our ultimate constitution reflect input from both of these individuals?

David New:

Well, it definitely does. The Constitution assumes correctly the true nature of man. This is where our secular neighbors fall short. They really don’t understand the nature of man. The framers of the Constitution did. The secularists believe government is the solution to the problems of America, more government. When was the last time you Have you ever heard a Democrat who ran for the White House for President and say, “I’m running on a platform to reduce your taxes and reduce the size of government.” The framers of the Constitution did not see government as the solution to the problem because they knew human nature. They knew that government could be corrupt and could be tyrannical because people are sinners. All

Sam Rohrer:

Right. And with that, David, that’s exactly ladies and gentlemen, where does that take you? Not to a secular viewpoint, right to the pages of scripture. Makes all of the difference and how one lives. And in our case, the government that came out of it stayed with us, we will conclude in the next segment. Well, as we go now into our final segment, thanks for being with us here today. I hope that you’ve enjoyed some of what’s been said today. No doubt, a number of things that either David or I’ve shared have been new. Again, it’s all history. It’s amazing what you can find by looking back. But that’s what we should do and encourage to do biblically. As I said at the beginning of the program, one of the things that we learned from history, this is not from the Bible, but it’s from history.

Those who don’t refer to history, they don’t learn from history. They’ll do it again. God’s plan is look back for the purpose of not repeating those things that did not work and look back to what God has done so that we can apply what has worked to what will work because of the nature of God. That’s really what it comes down to. And so there is a value in looking back and that’s what we’ve done today as we’ve considered this concept of what many of the secular organizations will say is that God had nothing to do with the founding of our country. God had nothing to do with the Constitution. The Bible, no way. Moral absolutes, they just happened to be dead wrong. And so just showing a few things related to that today and the actual impacts, frankly, of pastors, preaching and sermons. It’s an amazing thing.

It’s the way that God created it. Truth comes from the Bible and when Christians and pastors do what you’re supposed to do, culture is impacted by it. So as we’ve noted today, the Bible and pastors and sermons have indeed played a critical role in what America became. And though the secularists of the last century have tried very hard and sadly have been very successful in removing even the sense that there is a freedom to talk about God, they’ve had to do so through deception and lies and outright historical revision. So those of us who know the truth don’t believe that because you can find the proof. Now today, we’ve highlighted so far two extraordinarily impactful pastors as they passionately presented their interpretation of scripture at a critical point in the early days of our nation. Samuel Langdon was one and Samuel West was the other.

Clearly, there were other individuals that God used in the first and the second great awakenings as an example. So God has used the preaching of his word in the Bible in an extensive fashion. But as we close today’s program, we’d like to highlight just one additional example of a sermon that gave rise to a phrase that found its way onto US coinage. In God, we trust. David, would you share with us this historical fact and how it came about and the impact that it’s had?

David New:

Sir, it is a beautiful story. Just before I do that, I want to read one very quick quote by Samuel Langdon in the sermon. Ladies and gentlemen, if you want a free copy of this sermon, you can download it for free from the internet. The title of the sermon is The Republic of the Israelites, an example to the American States. The Republic of the Israelites, an example to the American States by Samuel Langdon. Now, this is one of the last things he says in his sermon. This is where he … We know he’s not interested in secular or Godless government. Look what he said. “I call upon you to preserve the knowledge of God in the land and attend to the revelation written to us from heaven. “Now this is what he believes the Constitution of the United States is going to produce. And then he said,” If you neglect or renounce that religion taught to us and command it in the holy scriptures, “now I’m going to paraphrase.

“Forget about freedom. Forget about peace. Forget about happiness.” And then he ends with these words, “The judgments of heaven will pursue you. ” What an argument for the Constitution. Now, that other sermon. Ladies and gentlemen, if you hear anybody say the churches don’t make a difference in this country, there’s only one church you really need to go to. There are many great American churches, many wonderful churches, but this one shines very brightly. It’s the New York Avenue Presbyterian Church in Washington, DC.

The New York Avenue Presbyterian Church in Washington, DC. Now we know who made under God in our pledge. Who put that in there? We know who made in God we trust our national motto. The official motto of the United States is not secular. It is theistic. This is a non-sectarian state. The United States is, but it is a theistic state which is very different from a theocracy. So where did this come from? It came from President Dwight Eisenhower. Did you know that the name Dwight and Eisenhower, he was named in honor of the great Moody Bible Institute? Anyway, the New York Avenue Presbyterian Church in Washington DC is the true origin for under God and the pledge of allegiance. That church is the true origin for our national motto. Why? Because there was a pastor there named George Dottery and he preached sermons on this subject.

He preached sermons and who was in the audience to hear this? To hear his sermons about under God being in the pledge and in God we trust, it was the President of the United States of America, Dwight D. Eisenhower. Now here’s some words from the sermon. “To omit the words under God in the pledge of allegiance, “the pastor said,” Is to omit the definitive factor in the American way of life.

“Now, these sermons were given an early 54. Dwight Eisenhower inspired by this pastor comes up with legislation to add the words under God in the pledge and then comes up and says,” We need to make in God we trust our official motto of the United States. “The New York Avenue Presbyterian Church was Abraham Lincoln’s church. He went there. He went there on Sundays. He went there for Wednesday night prayer meetings. There is a pew with his family name on it. Ladies and gentlemen, if you hear anybody who say churches don’t matter, tell them about the New York Avenue Presbyterian Church. Churches make a difference in this country.

Sam Rohrer:

And David, that brings us right up to the end. And ladies and gentlemen, churches who preach the gospel make an even bigger difference than churches alone. Think about that. These pastors we talked about, Samuel Langdon, Samuel West at the very beginning, they were deep theologians. They went to the very chapters and the verses of scripture, the old and the New Testament, and their belief in God’s word as authoritative is what made their arguments so very, very strong. And I’m glad that they did. But as we move away from our dependence on God’s word, we move away from that which made America great. Leave it there. So we’ll conclude with that. David, thanks so much for being with us today. Again, this is always a pleasure being with you and ladies and gentlemen, thanks for being with us. Tomorrow, join us again. We’re going to talk about some of these things plus a lot more.

Pastor Isaac Crockett and I will be together on some very current events that will touch on some of the things we talked about here today as well. So we hope that we’ll see you tomorrow.