One Nation Under God: Liberty Sunday/National Day of Prayer

Host: Dr. Jamie Mitchell

Co-host: Hon. Sam Rohrer

Note: This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program aired on 5/5/26. To listen to the podcast, click HERE.

Disclaimer: While reasonable efforts have been made to provide an accurate transcription, the following is a representation of a mechanical transcription and as such, may not be a word for word transcript. Please listen to the audio version for any questions concerning the following dialogue.

Jamie Mitchell:

Well, good afternoon. Welcome again to Stand in the Gap today. I’m your host, Jamie Mitchell, Director of Church Culture at the American Pastors Network. And joining me today, Sam Rohrer, the president of APN and our senior host, not senior citizen host, our senior host of this program. Sam, it’s always good to be with you.

Sam Rohrer:

Jamie, it’s good to be with you in this capacity today as well. And yes, yes. I am not a senior. I am a little older than you. People don’t know that necessarily, but I’m a few years older than you. And I’ve walked with the Lord now, I’ll tell you, and which is the greatest blessing I have for coming on 65 years. How about that?

Jamie Mitchell:

Wow. Wow. Wow. Anyway.

Well, Sam, July is fast approaching. And for the fifth year here at APN, we have the joy and the privilege to spearhead what we call our annual Liberty Sunday. This year, it falls on July the 5th. Each year, we invite and encourage pastors and churches to set aside a Sunday, closest to our nation’s birthday, the 4th of July, and give attention to the uniqueness and the exceptional nature of our country, and to give special attention to the topic of liberty. Now, this year, with the celebration of our 250th anniversary as a nation, it’s going to be a special time. Each year, Liberty Sunday, we try to pick a topic. I prepare a sample sermon in my role here at APN, and we try to get pastors to help their congregation understand the spiritual influence behind our nation’s founding and celebrate the amazing freedoms that we have as believers in Christ and also living here in the USA.

And in light of this, this year, Sam, we want to look at this issue of religious liberty. And today, we want to talk about that. We want to talk about Liberty Sunday. And this coming Thursday is the National Day of Prayer. And so we even want to spend a little time at the end of this program praying. So Sam, with all that being said, let’s talk about our nation and how religious liberty is a keystone in the founding and really what sustains us. That’s what you and I believe. But Sam, could you help understand what is religious liberty and what does it actually mean?

Sam Rohrer:

When I thought about that, Jamie, I would say for me, this is how I interpret. When I think of religious liberty, I would say it is the unconstrained ability to worship God according to the Bible and the dictates of my conscience and not only unconstrained by government, but protected by civil government. That’s how I would define religious liberty. But when I look beyond that, when our nation began, there actually was no legal term or a definition for religious liberty. It didn’t exist. That phrase and focus actually came out of the reformation and the enlightenment. However, the word and the concept of liberty existed as a broader description of a freedom that came from being set free from slavery in both a physical way and a spiritual way. And that’s why the children of Israel even what ended up on the Liberty Bell about proclaimed liberty throughout all the lands that inhabits thereof.

That was really a physical part. They had just come out of Egypt. And so that’s where it came from. But this liberty, Jamie and I think about it, our founders understood it as well, was rooted even more deeply in a spiritual way. South Corinthians 3:17 says this, “Now the Lord is that spirit. And where the spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.” So Jamie, liberty is broader than spiritual, but has its roots in being set free spiritually, but it finds its way into physical life, physical government, physical living. And that’s all a part of religious liberty.

Jamie Mitchell:

It is. I don’t care who it is that tries to squelch this idea, but the founders, most of them, the majority of them were men of faith. They had a love for God. They had an understanding of scripture. They were faith focused and their faith influenced them. And when they were constructing our founding documents and constructing our nation, they had this in mind of making sure that people had the ability. There was no, as you, I love that word, unconstrained. They didn’t have anything holding them back from expressing their faith. But with that in mind, Sam, people throw around this term, Christian nation. This idea of religious liberty is much bigger than that. It goes beyond just being a Christian nation or even the proclamation of that. Help our people understand why that is either a good thing, bad thing. Help our people understand when people say we’re a Christian nature, what are they saying?

Sam Rohrer:

Well, when I look back at the beginning of our nation, the first colon, it was in Jamestown. I think people remember that. I don’t remember, but from history. It was Jamestown. In Virginia, how did it begin? Well, its focus and its goal was a business venture. It was those who came there came here for gold and for what it would produce for wealth, but it didn’t last, as we all know. It took the pilgrims in 1621 and the Puritans who came after them, who came to America for a completely different reason. People don’t remember this. The pilgrims, why did they come primarily? They came as missionaries to evangelize the indigenous folks who lived here, the Indians we’d call American Indians. They came here with a prayer that perhaps in this new world, they would find a place that they could shape and raise up with the help of God to raise their families according to the dictates of their conscience.

And that was as a Christian because they were penalized for where they were. And their hope was founded on what they believe. In the end, Jamie, our founders did just as we do today. And that’s this, we do what we believe. We do what we believe. They believed in God. They believed in the word of God. They were Christians. They were believers in Jesus Christ. They came here for those reasons different than the Jamestown explorer types who wanted money.

They came for a different reason and they chose to do what God said. And that’s when William Penn came on the scene sometime later and laid down his frame of government. And he made it very, very, very clear that a nation, if the people wanted to experience the blessings of God, they needed to follow the commands of God. And Jamie, that was the basis for it.

Jamie Mitchell:

Amen. Sam, that is so helpful. It’s a great way to get started. Friends, listen, religious liberty is a cornerstone of our nation. Yeah, it’s being attacked. In our nation throughout the world, when we come back, Sam and I are going to discuss some ways that liberty is being threatened and maybe the core reason why the church, well, it’s kind of silent on this issue. So stay with us. Don’t go anywhere. We’re here. Stand in the gap today. Well, welcome back. Sam Rohrer and I are discussing the upcoming Liberty Sunday on July the 5th. We’re encouraging churches to join together to celebrate our nation. Our theme this year is religious liberty, celebrating, protecting it. And we’ve been discussing the foundational blocks of our nation and how faith and protecting faith and not being constrained in any way to practice your faith has been a part of our nation.

It’s one of the hallmarks of our nations. However, we want to talk about it being challenged. Sam, from the moment that the church was established, it’s experienced persecution. There has always been some kind of oppression and that persecution, it continues today. However, throughout the globe, there seems to be a sense that religion should be respected, but we’re seeing a rise of people of faith being attacked or even religion being silenced. And this is spilling over here in America, but I want to just take a moment. Sam, so many times you’re aware of what’s happening around the globe. We always say we come to this program with a Bible in one hand, a newspaper in another. Are there some international stories that might be helpful for our listeners just to be aware of, to help them see this issue of-

Sam Rohrer:

I would say the answer is yes, there is. And this is how I’d respond to it. And I’d pick up right from you left off. When Jesus said to his disciples, “If they persecuted me, they will persecute you. ” And he said, “The world and the world system is running counter to God and God’s plan.” Okay, that’s the framework that has been in place since the ascension of Jesus Christ. Now, what are we seeing today? One of the things I note across the world that almost regardless of the type of government or where it is around the world, true Christians are either being actively persecuted as they would be perhaps in Nigeria, where there’s an Islamic war going on and hundreds and hundreds have been killed there in Nigeria. That’s an example that leads to death. In other places, they are surveilled and controlled, like in China.

China has put all of their nation. They’re all controlled, surveilled through cameras, and they have their social credit system. And if they step out of line from what government wants, they’re persecuted. So it applies to Christians, but it also applies to other people that would be there because in China, they are coming from a communist perspective where communism, godless communism, not a religion per se. It is a religion, but it’s not like we would think. They want everybody to bow to them. But you take other places around Europe or other places, for instance, where Christianity has now gone out of vogue. If you are a true Christian, they are finding themselves marginalized, maybe not led to death, but they’re marginalized. Places like India, now India is a Hindu nation, but under their new leadership or the leadership they have, they’ve become very, very aggressive to Christians, true Christians, who proselytize as they say it.

They say, “All right, you can be a Christian. We’re not going to punish you but be a Christian, but don’t you talk to anybody who’s a Hindu

About the Lord. Otherwise, we’re going to come after you. ” So Jamie, it’s happening all over. Antisemitism is creasing around the world, and I’ve talked about in this program many, many, many times. It seems like those who speak against God’s plan for Israel, Jewish people in Jerusalem, that aspect of it seems to kind of walk in tandem with an increase in anti-Christianity as well. So there are things happening all over. And I would almost say in reality, there’s almost no place where it’s not happening to some degree, it’s just to what degree it is occurring, but what Jesus said is right. Persecution is happening and it’s on the rise.

Jamie Mitchell:

You know, Sam, I’m sensitive to this one as I look at the news because I’ve been there. I’ve been to places like Nicaragua where right now the president and his wife, who’s certifiably crazy, they’re targeting not all Christians, but they just kind of put out a hit on all of the Baptist churches. They said to all the Baptist pastors, all the Baptist churches, “You’re no longer legitimate in this country. You need to leave.” And so we see things like that happen. But Sam, I want to transition because we’re talking about the world, the globe, international scene, but the fact of the matter is we’re seeing, even though we are a nation that it’s founding, one of its mainstay principles was this issue of religious freedom, religious liberty. We’re seeing a rise on the same kinds of things here in America, and it’s noticeable. I mean, we just are hearing about how the government was targeting pro- life groups and Christian churches and Christian schools in the past administration.

Sam, America isn’t a void of this kind of religious oppression, is it?

Sam Rohrer:

No, absolutely. It is not. Just some time ago, there was a ruling against, for instance, the Southern Poverty Law Center. People listening may understand that. We talked about one of the former programs we had, and that it came out that, in fact, they were using money they got from government. They were using money that they were raising to basically go out and attack, try to destroy the name and the image and the character of organizations and/or people who were Christians, truly, or truly constitutional from that perspective, whatever. But they were in that role. That just came out. Okay. But for a long time, Jamie, whether it be the matters of life, going all the way back to Roe versus Wade or going back further, taking the 10 commandments out of the schools or prayer, or now moving up to date, the transgenders approach, or whether or that whole issue, or the fact that coaches, groups like the Freedom From Religion Foundation, or American Separate from United Church and State, whoever it was, these various groups went after coaches who prayed with their team after a game.

As an example, or somebody wanted to have a Bible study in public school, or a teacher wanting to have a Bible, a Christian teacher, put a Bible on their desk. All of these kinds of things have been threatened for decades, for decades, Jamie, and it is still going on today. So whereas there are some wins, and it’s appropriate that good legal organizations fight these things, but they are daily reminders that all that which is good and true is under attack by a world that is hostile to the God of the Bible, to the word of God, and therefore to the provisions within our constitution, which frankly, every one of them are built upon biblical principles. So there is a connection, and yes, in modern days, it is the persecution, a different type, but it is there and it is real.

Jamie Mitchell:

Sam, like I was just reading, I think it was Friday that a court case was handed down to the Christian school in Vermont that decided that its women’s team was not going to play against other teams that had transgender students, the league, the division, whatever it was up in Vermont, it banned the Christian school, all of their athletic programs because they took a stand on that. Now, fortunately they won that case, but Sam, as Christians, we can’t rely on the court cases. I mean, we can have court cases till Jesus returns. There’s a core problem though here, and this is why we have a liberty Sunday. We know persecution’s going to happen. We know that our religious liberties are going to be threatened, but it’s what’s happening in the soul of Christians that is our greater concern. Speak to that issue.

Sam Rohrer:

Well, Jamie, I think when I think about persecution, Jesus made it very, very clear that in the days in which we live, these things as we’re talking about, he makes a distinction between a hostile government that just suppresses its people and the kind of persecution that he talks about, because he always says this, “When you are persecuted for my sake.” And Jamie, I think that is the difference. For Christ’s sake means that we as believers in the furtherance of the way we believe, raise our families, educate our children, fellowship and worship, work, however all those things are that are reflective of living out a true Christian life, when we do that and we give God the glory for my sake, Jesus said, then persecution will occur. In our nation, we’ve just had people, the humanists who just frankly don’t like anything that’s even remotely Christian.

So they go after constitutional provisions as an example. But persecution for Christ’s sake is something that probably most people have not experienced. I’m going to put it that way, but how do we know that? Well, from the faithful preaching of God’s word, and that is at the heart, I think, of this matter of liberty and religious liberty and understanding what it is.

Jamie Mitchell:

Well, friends, we’ve got to encourage pastors to speak on this issue and to raise up the biblical worldview in people’s hearts and mind. When we come back, we’re going to talk about Liberty Sunday and give you a sneak peek to this year. Stay with us here at Stand in the Gap today.

Sam Rohrer:

Well, thanks for staying with us today here on Stand on the Gap Today. Jamie Mitchell and I are kind of going back and forth a little bit. We don’t do it this way generally, but we are today because of the emphasis. And that is every year for the past five years, we have emphasized Liberty Sunday. And we’ve done it in proximity to the 4th of July, because that’s obviously a very good time to do that. And Jamie, you’ve talked with me already on the program. We’ve given a definition of religious liberty. We’ve talked a little bit about liberty generally, what our founders actually viewed it to be, their view of scripture underneath all of this that has brought us to this point. We’ve talked about the challenges to freedom, because it’s not just here in this country, but it’s around the world that it’s happening under what we term persecution, and that’s of all various types, but there is a need for our people to understand and God’s people to know as we approach this 4th of July and we talk about freedom, that they know that part of spiritual freedom, religious liberty that comes along as a part of that.

And you’ve been doing a lot of work on putting some things together and providing some information, resources for our pastors. I’d like you to take and lay out for all those listening, pastors included, who would be there, as we ask churches something that they can do to take advantage of this very, very special time and point their people to something about which scripture speaks and it’s important that they understand liberty.

Jamie Mitchell:

Well, Sam, you were saying just a few minutes ago when we’re talking that the core of the issue here today is that persecution and the threats to religious liberties are going to be there. They’ve always been there. How we respond and really how we live our lives. Matter of fact, I would hope that persecution would happen because we’re living dynamic lives that are focused on a biblical worldview because when we’re doing that, then the opposition’s going to come. But our friend George Barna tells us what? About 6% of Christians have a biblical worldview, are living by that. And so our salt is not very salty. Our light is not very bright. But even in that case, religious liberty is always going to be threatened. So how do we prepare? Well, we got this idea a few years ago, and one of the reasons, Sam, is that I began to really think through this whole issue of, do I even fully understand how our nation views religious liberty?

Did I understand that we have the free access to practice our faith through worship and teaching and we can exercise our faith freely, that we’re free from coercion, that we shouldn’t be forced to believe in any one religion, that when we talk about separation of church and state, it’s not that our faith is separated from our involvement as a citizen, but that the state can’t be dictating that and that we have the freedom of conscious, that if you don’t want to have a belief or you don’t want to have a religious event, that’s okay, but my conscience should be free from any kind of oppression. And when I found out how little I know and how little pastors know, we challenge them. And so this year, our focus is on this issue of religious liberty and simply Sam, I’ve put together a sample sermon for pastors to use and we’re looking at this year at this issue of five keys, five keys to understanding religious liberty.

And I’ve entitled the message or this year’s Liberty Sunday, faithful in freedom, living for Christ in a contested culture. And I have about six to eight different passages of scripture that highlight throughout the Bible truths that will help our people, the people in the pew, to understand both what religious liberty is from a biblical point of view and how they can begin to defend it and stand up for it, but also, Sam, to celebrate it because it is something worth celebrating.

Sam Rohrer:

Well, Jamie, it is worth celebrating. And as you and I have talked about that, part of the assault in our culture, as you’re talking about that title there in a contested culture, part of the reason why you cited George Barton cited only 6% of American biblical worldview is that under our feet, under our feet, those who have opposed what the Bible says about freedom, true freedom, true liberty, and the whole underpinnings for everything that became our nation, moral law being God’s moral law that underpins that and understanding that the depravity of the heart of man from which flows the checks and balances concept in the three branches of government, all of that come right off the pages of scripture. The inability to see that, Jamie, has I think been in fact precipitated by people changing the definitions of words. 94% of the people in our country say that they are people of prayer.

Wow, we’re going to pray in the next segment here, but when you ask them, “Well, who do you pray to? ” Well, does it make any difference? About that same numbers, 75% will say they’re people of faith. Well, faith in what? Well, does it make any difference? Well, yeah, it does. And that’s why Jamie, those kinds of things are only dealt with from the pulpit. So you can speak a little bit to that because if people don’t know, again, as I said before, we do what we believe, but if we don’t believe the right things, we won’t do the right things.

Jamie Mitchell:

Well, Sam, part of the problem that we face, even with Liberty Sunday and why we are challenging pastors to take a day like this, to take July the 5th and say, “Hey, we’re going to talk about our nation. We’re going to talk about liberty. We’re going to talk about religious liberty. We’re going to talk about these things.” And to stop using the excuse that these are political issues and pastors then say, “Well, I don’t want to be political. I don’t want to be partisan. I don’t want to … ” Listen, these are biblical issues and these are biblical ethics and this comes from the pages of scripture and pastors have in many respects, and probably in the last decade, Sam, we have seen this slide from the pulpit of taking the word of God and showing people from the word of God the truth of scripture and then how to apply it into their life as a parent, as a worker, as somebody who is an employee, as a church member, as a community member, but then as a citizen, how as a born again Christian who believes the word of God is the truth, how do we take the word of God and now live it out in the marketplace of the community that we live in, the state we live in, the nation we live in, and be able to wrestle with the things that are happening in the news, but also in regards to the issues contending in government and those kind of things.

And Sam, the problem is, and you know this, because that’s why we started the American Pastors Network, why we do stand in the gap, is that pastors have a tremendous privilege to go before their people each week and equip them and teach them and bring to bear the facts of history and government and those kinds of things, and helping them navigate these subjects from a biblical worldview. It is not happening, Sam. It’s just not happening, whether pastors are fearful or they’re ill-equipped, but they are not doing it. And that’s one of the values of our program. I mean, if you look in our archives, Sam, as one Bible conference director told me, he said, “The American Pastors Network and Stand in the Gap is a treasure trove of information to help pastors be able to teach and equip and prepare their people to have a biblical worldview.” And so that’s my challenge to pastors.

And why Liberty Sunday is so important, Sam, is that it’s on the calendar, you know I know that other churches are doing it. It’s right around 4th of July, but it gives you a platform to address these issues. And religious liberty is an important issue that Christians need to understand.

Sam Rohrer:

And Jamie, I think that’s fantastic, all that you said. Ladies and gentlemen, I’d like you just to think about that as well because on this program, if you listen to us regularly, you know that we emphasize the authority of scripture. God’s word is like none other. It is God’s word. It does speak to every issue of life. Every issue of life. And how are we as disciples of Christ commanded to live? Well, assault and as light and ambassadors of Jesus Christ, we’re here on a mission. Well, how do we know how to do that? Well, scripture tells us. How do we live? Well, scripture tells us about that. And so in all areas of life are how we are to live it out. So pastor, don’t think that talking about things that happen in the course of life is an off-limits political thing. Not at all.

It’s life. Scripture speaks to life and living. And that is what the Christian life is all about. And it all begins, do we understand really truly the nature of liberty being free in Christ and how to take what that provides to understanding freedom all about us. Now day of prayer is coming up here. Next segment, we’re going to close in prayer.

Jamie Mitchell:

Well, thank you so much for coming back to this last segment. I’m here with my friend Sam Rohrer, and we’re discussing Liberty Sunday, which is on July the 5th, about 60 days away. We’re hoping that churches will join and plan to have a Liberty Sunday at their place of worship. And you can go to Americanpastors.net in the next week or so. And there you will find resources for Liberty Sunday. You can register as we’ve done in the past, and you can receive those resources that will help you have a great day, including the sample sermon that I mentioned, the last segment. Sam, this Thursday is the National Day of Prayer. The tradition of national days of prayer, fasting, humiliation as they were called. It goes back all the way to 1775 when the Continental Congress called for prayer throughout all the colonies. Then in 1952, Congress passed a law establishing a joint resolution for a national day of prayer, which President Truman signed.

And then in 1988, the law was amended by Congress, signed by President Reagan and a permanently set as the first Thursday of every May. And each year around the nation, this day is set aside to cry out to God for our nation. Sam, I know that you served in office for many years and you probably participated in the National Day of Prayer events. From an elected official’s point of view, put on that hat for a moment. What was the day of prayer? Did it matter? Do elected officials appreciate it? And why should we do this?

Sam Rohrer:

Jamie, I will say, and I’ve attended many, many National Day of Prayer events in Washington DC and you said been a part of that in a number of different ways. I would say that in reality, to be truthful, which is the only way I will be, is that government officials, elected officials, I would say, I don’t know any, maybe there’s a couple along the way perhaps, but I don’t know of anyone who officially opposed the day of prayer. Most will welcome it, but I want to say that very few understand its potential impact or what God requires before that time of prayer has power. Now, why do I say that? I mean, I often viewed in the past, Jamie, that reminders of what our founders said, prayers that founders made that are recorded.

Sermons, believe it or not, that were preached by pastors on the floor of general assemblies and Congress in its early day, they don’t understand. Most don’t understand because they’ve not taken the time to do it. And that’s why I think the prayer, the day of prayer, is a time that is to be encouraged and those who do know the Lord really do know the Lord, not like the Pharisees who stand up and pray and Jesus chastised them. I don’t even hear your prayer, he said. But those who do know the Lord stand up and pray with understanding, having their own heart prepared and humbled before the Lord. These are times that act as testimonies to all who are in office because it is an opportunity to bring them into the presence that there is a God. And that’s how I’ve always viewed them, Jamie. There are great opportunities for which no person, no elected person will ever stand before the Lord and say, “I didn’t hear about God.

I never knew about this. ” They will at least have heard, though they have not yet responded. And so that’s part of the reason why I think we are to pray for those impositions of authority so that they do come to understand personally who the God of heaven is through Jesus Christ.

Jamie Mitchell:

Sam, yesterday or this past weekend rather, I was preaching on prayer. Jeremiah 33: three. The Lord speaks to Jeremiah and he says, “Call to me and I will answer and I will reveal to you great and mighty things that you do not know. ” And I think the two most important factors in that verse is that God is inviting us to pray. He says, “Call to me. ” And then he says at the end of that prayer that you don’t know, things that you don’t know. And Sam, I’ve always believed that prayer is not us trying to change God’s will, but our hearts lining up with God’s will. It’s more of an act for us of submission, surrender, humiliation, or being humble before the Lord. And Sam, our country needs a humbling. It needs throughout the government, throughout churches, throughout families, we need to cry out to God.

And if the National Day of Prayer does that alone, gives us awareness that we are in desperate need of God showing up in our lives, in the lives of our nation, then I think that it’s a worthwhile effort to do that. Now, Sam, normally we just keep talking, but we just have a couple of minutes. I want you to pray. And I want, as being a former elected official, you pray for our elected officials. And then I’m going to follow up and I’m going to pray for our military, police, first responders. Sam, you go first. I’ll pray and then I’ll close our time. And it’s been great to be with you today. Thank you so much. Yeah.

Sam Rohrer:

And thank you, Jamie. Heavenly Father, Lord, we are thankful that you’ve given us the opportunity to come into your throne room, those who know you as Savior. Lord, I’m glad to say that you put me into your family many years ago and I am your child. And Lord, I come to you on that basis as my Father. And I would pray for those for whom today we are talking, those who are in positions of authorities. Romans 13 says, “Ministers of God, your servants.” Lord, I pray that those who are in the office today, those who are in Washington and Congress, the House and the Senate, the president, and those who are around him, our state legislatures, our governors of our various states, in those capacities, Lord, and all the way down through that they would understand and come to an awareness that you are God and God alone and they are not and that they would come to you on your terms knowing that that is the word of God.

So let them be in the word of God. I pray, Lord, that you would speak to their hearts through your Holy Spirit and convict them when they walk counter to your word and confirm within their heart when they do that, which is right. Lord, we are in trouble in these days. We can see it because we have not feared you nor heeded your commandments and still expect you to bless. And Lord, that’s not the way you work and that’s not what you have said. So I pray that those in positions of authority would bow their need to you now in humble submission and call out for mercy. And Lord, you will grant it if they do. I pray in Jesus’ name. Amen.

Jamie Mitchell:

And Lord, we pray for those who protect us, our military, police, first responders, who make this nation safe. Father, for those in harm’s way, protect them. And God, we plead for our nation. We’re in trouble. We need your help. In Jesus’ name, we pray. Well, friends, thank you. Don’t forget Liberty Sunday, July the 5th. Go to our website, check those things out. And until tomorrow, live with courage. Our nation needs it. Stand up for liberty. Thank you so much. We’ll see you tomorrow.