Moving Toward & Away from Faith at the Same Time: How Can It Be?

Host: Hon. Sam Rohrer

Co-host: Dr. Isaac Crockett

Guest: George Barna

Note: This transcript is taken from a Stand in the Gap Today program aired on 5/1/26. To listen to the podcast, click HERE.

Disclaimer: While reasonable efforts have been made to provide an accurate transcription, the following is a representation of a mechanical transcription and as such, may not be a word for word transcript. Please listen to the audio version for any questions concerning the following dialogue.

Sam Rohrer:

Hello and welcome to this Friday edition of Stand in the Gap today. And it’s also our monthly emphasis on culture, values, and biblical worldview. And today, Dr. Isaac Crockett and I are glad to have back with us again. Special guest, not new, well known to all of you. Been with us so many years and what a blessing, but is Dr. George Barna. He is, for those who may not know, he is the professor at Arizona Christian University. He’s also the director of research at the Cultural Research Center there at Arizona Christian. And this week, the Cultural Research Center directed by him, just released the third report of the 2026 in this year under the general category entitled American Worldview Inventory. And if you’ve joined us before, we have been breaking and sharing these various reports for a number of years now.

The reference of this report, which you can access freely, you can get it at their website at culturalresearchcenter.com, culturalresearchcenter.com. You can find the entire report to which we’ll be referring today. And it’s there under the title of 2026 American Worldview Inventory Report number three. So if you go to that site, the report title there reads this, Examining the Recent Spiritual Progress and Regress of Gen Z. And it’s this title in the substance that led me to title the focus of today’s program on this, Moving Toward and Away From Faith at the Same Time. How can it be? And hopefully that sets up an intriguing thought in your mind because that’s what this research reveals. And because of the volume of the information in the report and the importance, I think that all listening to all God-fearing people anyways, listening to this program want to know about this because this is intriguing and challenging information.

I want to get right in right now with Dr. George Barna. George, thanks for being back with Isaac and I again today. It’s always a special time with you. And I know a program of meaning to our listeners.

George Barna:

Well, I always look forward to our conversations and I do hope that they are helpful to anybody who’s listening.

Sam Rohrer:

Well, people do have to have ears to hear, and that’s what I pray for regularly. And I say that seriously because one of the problems I think of our days is that people hear, but they don’t listen and then comprehension. I mean, that’s another thing. But let’s get into this because in the first report of 2026 on this program, you highlighted the fact that among other things, only 4%, only 4% of all Americans possess a biblical worldview. Now that was astounding. In last month’s program, report number two, you shared how that you had identified that the significant strengths and weaknesses that contribute to this really measly 4% of Americans, you focused on those who hold a biblical worldview. And then today in this report, you focus on Gen Z, that 18 to 23 year old category of young people. And this is what I’d like you to do.

Would you summarize report one, report two, synthesize them however you want to do it, and then walk into the focus and the reason for this month’s report number three, because you link these things together and you expand them in a very logical fashion. So would you do that for us and to get us set up here today?

George Barna:

Well, sure, Sam. I mean, the first report, as you alluded to, was really the … It’s the first one we do every year when we do the American Worldview Inventory. It’s the incidents report. What are the big numbers? The biggest picture in terms of the number of people with a biblical worldview. And what we found in this year’s report was that compared to the first year of our three year cycles, going back to 2023, there was no change. In biblical worldview incidents, it stayed at 4%. Now that might seem like a downer, but actually to me, that was a little bit encouraging because since I’ve started measuring biblical worldview in America, what we found is that the numbers have been slowly, very slowly, but very steadily declining over time, over the last 30 years. And so the fact that it stayed at 4% raises at least the question, gee, have we bottomed out?

Maybe now we’re preparing to see some kind of future growth. We don’t know. We’ll have to wait and see. And certainly we’re going to have to work for that. But in addition to the fact that only 4% of adults in America have a biblical worldview, there’s a second category of people we look at, emergent followers. These are people who don’t have a biblical worldview, but they have a number of elements of a biblical worldview. Some of that perspective and behavior that a person with a biblical worldview would have. Unfortunately, since 2020, we’ve seen the number of emergent followers cut in half almost. It’s gone from 19% down to the current 10%, so that’s not a positive indication. So again, we got to weigh these things. Also in that report, we talked about from 2020 to 2026, if you look at people that attend evangelical churches, the number with the biblical worldview has been cut in half from 21% to 11%.

People who would be considered theologically identified, born again, Christians, they’ve dropped from 19% to 12%. Generationally, we see only 1% of the adults in Gen X, excuse me, Gen Z who have a biblical worldview, only 2% among millennials. It’s 7% among people who are 50 or older. So those are the kinds of things we’ve looked at in the first report. Second report, we took a look at how do we get to some of these numbers, and we have eight different categories or modules of questions that we ask that look at different aspects of people’s beliefs and behaviors. And so we identified the eight modules, talked about the numbers within those. And I think some of the keys coming out of that report were that we seem to be strongest in terms of biblical alignment, our beliefs and behaviors aligning with scriptural teaching in areas such as purpose and calling.

That was highest on the list, but even there, only one out of every five people is consistently aligned with the scriptures in relation to purpose and calling. Second strongest was faith practices. Only one out of six Americans are consistently engaging in faith practices that the scriptures call us to. Our weakest areas were those of family and the value of life, only 5% of Americans, one out of every 20 consistently comports with what the Bible teaches about things like marriage, gender identity, abortion, the sanctity of life, relationships, those types of things. And then close to that, another module, God, creation and history, only 7% are consistently aligned with the scriptures. So that leads us to report number three where we start to talk about, well, what does this look like in the big picture? A lot of people are saying we’re in the midst of revival that’s broken out across America, particularly among young adults.

And so we used our tracking surveys over the course of time to try to take a look at that very thing. All

Sam Rohrer:

Right, George, thank you so much, ladies and gentlemen. Stay with us. Our focus today moving toward and away from faith at the same time, how can it be? And that’s a quick summary of report number three, focusing on Gen Z. Stay with, we’ll be right back. If you’re just joining us, thanks for being with us today. Our focus is, our guest rather is Dr. George Barna. And our focus today is report number three, which is the third report as a part of the ongoing American Worldview Inventory series that has been conducted by George and the Cultural Research Center there, Arizona Christian for a number of years. So we’re into three, and if you’re just joining us, George just summarized the first two, which we’ve dealt with in the last two months, and we’re now moving into this third one. So George, directly from your 2026 American Worldview Inventory Report number three, and I’m just stating that again so people can remember that.

It’s examined if they go online, they’ll find it as a titled Examining the Recent Spiritual Progress and Regress of Gen Z. And at the beginning of that document, you say this, and I’m just going to read it to help set up the next question, but you say this, “Is Gen Z the youngest adult generation in America experiencing revival?” And you started on that subject in the last segment. Then you go on, you say, “And the answer, it’s complicated.” In some ways, Gen Z has witnessed a significant uptick in key spiritual indicators during that time. More are claiming to be Christians, up five percentage points, you’re saying all this, and substantially more say they are quote, deeply committed to practicing their religious faith and more are reading their Bibles on a weekly basis, up 17 percentage points and 10 percentage points respectively. Then you conclude by saying, “But at the same time, a number of other measures are going the wrong way.” All right, so George, here’s my question.

What prompted you to seek for indications of revival within the Gen Z group as a area to pursue? Why did you do that in the first place? And then what moved to that, what did you find to be the evidences that this group was actually moving toward faith, as you’re saying? And as you’re doing that, were they significant moves or just tiny incremental moves? Put all that together, please.

George Barna:

Okay. Well, Sam, the reason we look at it is because there are a lot of people right now in our culture who are saying, “Oh, there’s a move of God. The spirit of God is moving among young adults.” We’re seeing that young people in particular, young adult people are moving toward Christ. And why would we study that? Because that’s an exciting thing. I mean, we’ve been waiting for that my whole lifetime. And so if it’s happening, we want to know it’s happening. We want to be part of what’s happening. We want to encourage that to continue and to spread. And so if revival takes place in a culture, there are certain things that you would probably witness as a result of it. And from the big picture perspective, one of the things you’d expect is that, well, more and more people will be moving toward having a biblical worldview, because that enables them to be more Christ-like.

So we measured 32 different elements toward trying to figure out, yeah, is this happening? And what we found is that there were eight positive measures of spiritual growth from a biblical perspective. And when we look at those, we found that a couple of them you alluded to by reading what I wrote, 17 percentage point increase in young adults saying that they’re deeply committed to practicing their faith, a 10 percentage point rise in the number of them who are reading the Bible every week, a 10 point rise in the proportion who say that they were created by God, but they’re a sinner and therefore they need to be saved. That’s encouraging. Nine point increase in those who would say that when they have to make important moral choices, they primarily turn to the Bible to guide them a five point rise and number who are calling themselves Christian, that is they’re identifying publicly with Christ.

And then you had some other kinds of changes, an 11 point decrease in the number who say they never seek to know or do God’s will, an 11 point decrease and the number who say they never acknowledge their sins and ask God to forgive them for those. And a nine point decrease in those who say they never thank and praise and worship God intentionally. So those are all positive indications. Now, a few things we got to be careful of. One is that these are changes from four years ago when that same group was teenagers, now they’ve moved into being young adults. And so over the last number of years, these are the changes that we’ve seen with them, but there is a difference between changes in percentages and the absolute percentage. So for instance, we have a 10 percentage point increase in the number who say that they’re relying on the Bible when they need moral guidance, and yet only 28%, less than three out of 10 of all those young adults are relying upon the Bible primarily for their moral guidance.

So there’s always multiple ways of looking at these things, but nevertheless, eight positive measures, we’ll take it.

Isaac Crockett:

Positive. So that’s good. If it’s positive, it’s exciting, it’s a neat opportunity. If you could remind us again of these ages, you’re saying this is the youngest adult group. Does this mean that there’s still some who are teenagers maybe, but then with this, could we get into, what did you find that maybe seemed opposite of what we were hoping for? If we see positive results in these eight, can you talk about the findings that were not positive that were the opposite? They were kind of negative and were you surprised that there could be 10% increase in Bible reading, 10% saying they’re created by God needing salvation, for example, and yet a decline in some of the other areas.

George Barna:

Yeah. And one of the first questions you asked is a good clarification. I keep talking about the adults in the Gen Z generation because right now the generation is split between those at the adult and 18 or older and those who are not yet adults, it’s a generation that is moving toward adulthood, but most of it is not there yet. So this particular report only focuses on the adult portion of that group, which is what most people talking about revival have been focusing on. Now, looking at your second question, which has to do with the other measures that we found movement on, we found eight that moved in a positive direction, but we also found seven that moved in a negative direction. For instance, there was an 18 percentage point decline in people from the adult portion of Gen Z who said that they do not believe that the marriage of one man to one woman is God’s only choice for humanity.

Most of them say, “No, marriage is a personal choice. You marry a man, you can marry a woman, doesn’t matter what you marry, that’s your choice.” Most of them would say that a man marrying a woman is not a morally superior choice to a man marrying a man, a woman marrying a woman. Again, it’s just a personal choice. We had a 17 percentage point rise in the number of adult Gen Zers who say they prefer socialism to capitalism. We had a 13 percentage point rise in Gen Z adults who said that they believed their horoscope is consistently providing them with useful guidance for their life at a 10 percentage point rise and those who say that there is no such thing as absolute moral truth, that all truth is up to the individual, depends on their feelings, their perspectives, their circumstances, had a nine point rise in those who say, “We’re never going to know how we got here, how the universe appeared, scientists, theologians, everybody’s going to be searching, but we’re never going to know.

” Then you’ve got a six point rise in those who say, “Nothing happens after you die.” That’s on top of those who already believe that, but an increase in those who say, “When we die, you just cease to exist. There’s nothing that happens. There’s no heaven. There’s no hell. You’re not reincarnated.” It’s over. And then a five percentage point rise and those who say that when Jesus was on earth, he sinned. So you look at all that and you juxtapose all this. It can look a little bit confusing. I think you refer to it as a paradox. And frankly, I mean, when we look at this kind of data, we don’t see it as necessarily contradictory as if it would undermine the research or it would simply allude to confusion in terms of what’s going on. People are always questioning their world, their existence, their purposes, their choices, other people.

We’re always looking at that stuff and wondering, “Huh, is this right? Is that wrong?” That’s why worldview is so important because it’s our decision making filter. It’s kind of the rock that we go back to to try to make sense of our world. And so we put all of these conditions, these situations, these opportunities, these challenges through that filter to try to make sense of it. And so right now, young adults are in a time in their life when previously up through about the age 13, they develop their worldview. Now they’re in a stage where they’re kind of testing it, implementing it, trying to figure out how to better articulate it. And it’s not uncommon for them to be questioning things and maybe to be shifting a few things. And we look at these 15 areas where we’ve seen significant, statistically significant change, but we’ve got to remember that most of the people that were interviewed have only had change in one to maybe three of those areas, not all 15.

All 15 categorize the entire generation that we’re starting, but it doesn’t categorize a typical individual. And so yeah, there are some changes that are taking place, but a majority of the young adults that we interviewed still have the same worldview they had at the age of 13, and they’re probably going to have that same worldview

When they die. We find that worldview typically doesn’t change after the age of 13.

Sam Rohrer:

Okay. George, thanks so much. Ladies and gentlemen, stay with us. We’ll be back because I know that this is intriguing to you and you’re saying, “How can this be? How can it be? ” Well, in the next segment, we’ll try to address some of that. How can this be? Well, as we go further into this report, number three, just released by Dr. George Barne and the Cultural Research Center there at Arizona Christian University, which you can find at the website of culturalresearchcenter.com. We’re talking about, George, you’re talking about measuring Gen Z beliefs and some pointing to good things that one would want us as believers would want to see in young people, but then there are others and you just went through that that go the opposite direction. And ladies and gentlemen, the mere fact that the positions of belief that would indicate that there is a movement toward God and biblical change in life required, all required of a true disciple, which may indicate revival, but at the same time, simultaneously witnessing indications that reflect and move away from God’s word into what the word of God would say would be, well, false religion perhaps or idolatry.

It certainly does present a dilemma requiring greater consideration. And George, you considered this question because it does kind of do something to your brain and this doesn’t compute. And I want to ask you about this. And from your report, again, you rate this, you say this, quote, “Do the data support claims of national revival?” Then you say, “Revival is a term used to identify a period of widespread spiritual awakening or a new beginning that moves people decisively toward God and his ways and produces tangible evidence of lives that have been radically transformed by God.” And I know, George, every word in there you put precisely because they all mean something. Then you go on to ask this, “Is the United States experiencing a time of revival now among its youngest adults?” And then you answer this by saying, “The research gives a lukewarm affirmation of revival at best.” All right.

Now, that being a case, let me just go into this. You raised the question of revival, you gave a definition, you attempted to measure it according to that definition, and at the end you came to say at least it’s lukewarm at best. To what extent, and make the next, it said, ought to be clear, it ought to be clear, but are the measurements you’re seeking to evidence relative to revival, are they the same as biblical worldview indicators, or are you looking for something close, but not quite the same?

George Barna:

Yeah, and actually let me allude to something you also talked about, Sam, which is by calling this lukewarm at best, if it’s revival. And the reason I said that is because I want people to recognize, look, only God knows what’s happening in people’s hearts. Only God really knows if revival is happening. He’s the one ultimately who has to define it. He’s the one who knows. We’re just trying to assess it so that we can do whatever possible to support it or to facilitate it if it’s not happening. And so that’s what the research does. We’re not trying to sit on God’s throne and say, “Hey, we know. Only God knows.” But with that in mind, using the most objective measures that we can come up with, the best methodologies that we can summon to our youth, you have to think about, all right, what are we really trying to see happen here?

And it’s basically what Jesus called us to do and to be, and that’s his disciples. That’s when you know your life has been transformed because the disciple of Jesus is no longer a disciple of the world. Those are our two choices. You’re either going to be a disciple of what’s going on in the world or you’re going to be a disciple of the Lord. And so what does it mean to be a disciple of the Lord? Well, you’re going to live like him. Well, what’s going to make you live like him? Well, because human beings do what they believe, that means that before you can live like him or act like him, you’re going to have to think like him. You’re going to have to believe it so that you do it. And so that’s why we measure the particular things that we’re measuring. A biblical worldview becomes therefore vitally important because that tells us what you’re thinking and what you’re thinking is going to lead to what you’re going to do, how you’re going to live.

So if revival is radical transformation, what it means is that we’re being transitioned from a selfish sinner to a selfless servant. It’s a complete change, transformation in how we think about life and then how we live life. And what we see in this research is there is a problem. And the problem is that a lot of the changes, positive changes that we identified, which are the things that a lot of folks are latching onto in terms of claiming that there’s revival, they’re actions without an underlying philosophical foundation. Why is that problematic? Because you do what you believe. If you haven’t changed your beliefs to change the foundation of how you understand the world works and who you are within that world and your relationship to the God who created and runs that world, if you haven’t changed those foundations, you can engage in different actions, but it’s going to wind up becoming routine and because it doesn’t have any deeper roots, any deeper meaning in your life, because you don’t have those philosophical perspectives in place.

And so what we’re seeing is a generation that is rushing to action without doing their homework, without doing the tough stuff of trying to figure out why would I worship God? I mean, let’s take church attendance because that’s one of the things that people are pointing to. They’re saying, “Oh, more of them are going to church.” Well, yeah, to a small extent, that’s true. But the problem is it’s not tied to any discernible changes in their beliefs about worship, in their beliefs about the necessity of a deep and abiding relationship with Jesus Christ, in their beliefs about the necessity of sacrifice and surrender in their own life. And so what happens? This is what we’ve seen with prior generations when they went to church because they didn’t have that shift in philosophical foundations. They went to church and they wanted to change the church services after a while because they weren’t entertaining enough.

And so this is what troubles me about what we’re seeing right now is they’re rushing to action without the real change in beliefs. And I would say that that’s not revival and frankly, we’re not going to have revival until first we have renewal within the existing church, meaning that the people who already know Christ as their Lord and Savior, they love him, they want to do their best to serve him. Well, they’ve got to get deeper in their faith, model it more consistently, effectively, and efficiently for those who are outside the church so that they then have the opportunity to make disciples of those people outside the church by having those kind of conversations that will change their philosophical underpinning that then leads to meaningful spiritual behavior.

Isaac Crockett:

And that’s what we’re all trying to find is that meaningful spiritual behavior that the things that point us to saying, “I’m a true disciple of Jesus Christ,” or, “These people over here that are coming, they seem to be evidencing true discipleship, a real radical transformation,” because that radical transformation, what you’re saying isn’t just doing something. I think of some of the growth and interest in things going on like in the Catholic church and because, “Oh, I like the sacraments and I like the history here, but it’s more than that. It’s having to be showing evidence of a disciple of Jesus. And this is something you write so much about and that you especially go to parents and grandparents on rearing our children.” And I think this kind of goes over to pastors and churches and all of that too. And so it’s not easy to just say, “Oh, we had a revival because we had this many people walk through the door.” And this is something you talk a lot with pastors about.

It’s not just how many bucks are put in the offering plate and how many butts are sitting in the seats, but a healthy church is a church that is full of disciples of Jesus and they’re making a difference in their community. And so I guess that’s kind of the question here with what you’ve been studying, George. For 40 years, you’ve been researching things like biblical worldview. How does that tie in this, I guess, quest for are we having a revival or not? And this isn’t the first time our nation has faced questions like that. Was that really a revival? Even I think of Charles Finney who went from Being a lawyer to a preacher. And at the end of his life, he questioned so much of what he had done. He had tried to manufacture revivals in the area around where I actually pastor. He called it the burned over area because of what he had done.

And so I guess as you’re looking at biblical worldview, how are you trying to measure this all out and see what fits and if really is a radical change happening?

George Barna:

Yeah. Great question. As we look at all this, I think one of the things that is a benefit from having been doing this kind of research for 40 plus years is that you learn a few things over the course of time. And one of the things that I’ve observed in doing consistent research on these matters is that changes in behavior generally do not produce changes in belief. It’s the other way around. You need to have the changes in belief for your philosophy of life that will then produce a change in your lifestyle. And so when we see the kinds of things we’re seeing right now, we saw it when there was the alleged revival in Florida, the alleged revival in Toronto, the alleged revival in the Midwest. I mean, there have been other pockets of intense spiritual activity, which has been great. But was it lasting?

Did it really produce more disciples? People who were going out and making disciples, from what we can tell, no, those didn’t. And it was because we focused so much on the behavior and not enough on the beliefs. Biblical worldview is a combination of both beliefs and behavior. If you change your beliefs, but you don’t convert it into behavior, didn’t really matter. But if you change your beliefs to become more biblical and that then produces a biblical lifestyle, that’s what matters. That’s what leads to

Sam Rohrer:

Revival. George, that’s this excellent. Ladies and gentlemen, again, that’s a great thing to think about. Just changing our behavior. Behavioral modification is not revival. That’s a great point. George, we come back. We’ll conclude this privilege with our list. Well, as we go into our final segment, again, ladies and gentlemen, in case you did not get it, and you would like to access the full representation, the full body of this research, which is identified as report number three. You can find it by going to the website of culturalresearchcenter.com, and it’ll be under the 2026. It’ll right to the top of the list. If you go on that section, you’ll find it. It’s right there at the top. And it is the report number three, Gen Z, moving toward faith and away from it at the same time. All right, George, obviously this is a dilemma. As we’ve been talking about it, evidences that would lead one to say that this body of people, this 18 to 23o Gen Z area would be, you could say, positive move toward that which is biblical, that which would reflect a biblical worldview.

In fact, then there are other factors in there, evidences that suggest that they’re leading in the opposite direction.

It kind of does something to your head because how can you be going forward and backward at the same time? It just, it doesn’t make sense. And as we … We’re going to ask you here how to conclude this, what we should do. We true believers. But into this, I was thinking during the break, this question, I’d like you to be able to respond to it. And that is this. To me, there’s two parts of it. Is it those in the category being measured, the Gen Z category? Are there those who within it who think they are in the midst of revival and are not because maybe they manifest scripture says a form of godliness, a desire to be godly perhaps, but they deny the power of, meaning they’ve never really been transformed by faith in Jesus Christ. Is it that? I want you to give us comment on that.

And or is it the adults? The others who are older, who are reading into that and saying, oh, in other words, applying wrong measurements, as you suggested, and actually leading people to wrongly think that revival is happening, whereas they haven’t waited long enough to find out. In other words, there’s those two parts, if that makes sense. I’d like to get your thoughts on that.

George Barna:

Well, I mean, the reality is with the Gen Z folks who may or may not be involved in revival, this idea of revival isn’t even on their radar screen. It’s not a term they’re familiar with. It’s not a goal in the life of the generation. It’s not something that they use as a marker of success. It’s just non-existent for them. I mean, they’re trying to figure out how to survive in life, how to thrive in life, how to get ahead in life, how to make sense of life. And so that’s their thing. When it comes to spirituality, it’s a generation that by and large is pretty self-focused as all young adult generations tend to be. And so they’re not worried about what theologians and researchers and radio commentators and other people who analyze things are looking at and worried about. And this notion of revival isn’t something that they’re concerned about.

When I look at the bigger picture of, well then, who’s putting this on the table? Who’s saying this may or may not be happening? Again, it’s a lot of people who have the right intentions. They want to see more people come to Christ, live for Christ, live like Christ, and do things that are going to advance the kingdom of God. So that’s good. But I think a lot of times what happens is we fall into the same ditch that the media do, which is they build a picture of reality based on anecdotes, individual stories. Well, I know a young guy who, man, he was a drunk and a wretch before, but now he’s going to church every Sunday and he’s reading his Bible more often. I think revival’s broken out. Well, you can’t build a sense of cultural movement on the basis of a few stories here and there.

And even if you’ve got a church that has recently had a bunch of people come forward and accept Christ and be baptized, that’s wonderful. That’s great. That’s victory. But is that national revival? No, it’s a good thing and we want more of that to happen. And yes, it would be helpful to study that and figure out was there anything we can learn from their experience that maybe we can share with others to facilitate a similar outcome. But again, we got to be real careful when we have these national labels about revival, renewal, even the simple things like church growth. I mean, whatever it may be, we’ve got to be more cautious.

Isaac Crockett:

That’s something I appreciate about your whole ministry, all of your books and things, is that you try to stick to scripture and to facts, defining things. And so I like that you don’t sugarcoat things. And I like that even this, it’s not just some simple yes or no kind of thing. But I think back to, I think it’s maybe your latest book about raising spiritual champions, and there was so much in there that was convicting to me both as a father and as a church leader in the church where I pastor. And I’m wondering what advice do you have maybe from that book or other, just your years of research and watching. What do you have for those who are part of that 4% or less remnant, those who are part of the true remnant as they’re watching this, what can they do at home?

Maybe grandparents or parents, what can they do in their church to try to disciple? And this is something, I remember Billy Graham in his, I think it might have been the last book he wrote, Storm Warning. He basically, after all these years of preaching as an evangelist, he said, “We need to see more than just somebody walking down the aisle. We need to see discipleship. We need to see mentorship going on. ” And so as we finish this focus on all of what you’ve been talking about, are there any takeaways that you would give us that we can do when we see these young people who we have an opportunity to reach out to?

George Barna:

Yeah. Isaac, I think it’s a great time for us to rethink who are we, because we’ve got a society right now that’s struggling with identity and I think the church is filled with people who are struggling with spiritual identity. Who do we see ourselves as? Well, we tend to think of ourselves as, “I’m a church member. I’m a donor. I’m an elder. I’m a whatever.” Well, maybe a better thing would be for us to ask the question, “Do I meet the qualifications Jesus gives us for what constitutes a real disciple of his? And if so, can I embrace that as my identity? Because if I do, I realize what does a disciple of Jesus do? ” The same thing that Jesus did. He reproduced himself in the lives of the 12 guys that he invested three years in, plus all the other people that hung around with them, but particularly those 12, that was his focus.

What’s our focus? Is it on making money, living more comfortably, having a better reputation, being more popular, driving a nicer car? What is it? If your identity is your disciple, well then you ought to be focusing on, well, who am I discipling? What disciples am I making for the glory of God, for my expression of gratitude to Jesus for what he did to me? And I want others to experience that same thing, that same transition. And so then it’s a question of, okay, who am I intentionally and consistently building those relationships with where I have the opportunity to build trust with them so that we can then have ongoing spiritual conversations where I’m not telling them what to believe. I’m asking them what they believe, why they believe it, how they got there, how

Isaac Crockett:

That

George Barna:

Relates to what the scriptures teach. I get to show them what that would look like in practice by modeling the Jesus lifestyle. We get to hold each other accountable to biblical truth. Those are the things that we as disciples need to be doing today. This is our moment in history. We are here for such a time as this.

Sam Rohrer:

And Dr. George Barna, thank you so much for being with us today and Isaac and all listening. Go find this report. Think on these things. Am I living as a truth?